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Katarn07
04-07-2003, 04:18 PM
Ummmm, I just replayed the entire DF straight through last week on Hard and encountered a difference in that and the mod's demo.

As we know in the demo, that one trooper wasn't standing with his back to the door... Also, once you're outside, every stormie on that level was awaiting you...

I don't care. That level was too easy anyhow, but other levels, such as Gromas, where stormies stand just around a bend in the mine shaft, will come to meet you and you won't have to fight your way to the reactor constantly, but instead, just have to do 4 major killings.

1) Getting into the base
2) Clearing out the base
3) Going through the shafts to the power coupling
4) Leaving


Won't every troop come to you? Or am I wrong and being a pain again? I used Gromas as an example because it always was one of my personal favorites, but I think it applies for most of the other levels as well.

If I am right in that troops will seek you out, and leave wide open areas for you to walk through with your gun down, won't you have to "stupify" the AI a bit? Not to the point of DF, where troops just shoot 2 shots, and slowly walk to you, and fire a few more shots, and make their slow advance, but to the point they don't come to find you until you find them (if that made sense... :rolleyes: )

The_One
04-07-2003, 06:34 PM
No. None of that made any sense whatsoever.

:confused:

Katarn07
04-07-2003, 06:52 PM
Figures... Sorry. I was rushed on that and posted that while it was on my mind.

OK. Here I go.

In the demo, when you leave the interior of the base, all the stormies come to meet you at the door because they "heard" the gunfire inside. Because of that, the courtyard became empty (besides the enemies from above) and really proved no challege.

In the original, you find them as you run around the building in the courtyard. Because of that, you had to constantly fight as you moved around.

So what I am saying, if you continue to use the JO AI, won't enemies hear your gunfire and leave their spot to meet you? If they do, the level (like what floor you are on, not level #) will become empty as all of the enemies come to find you. And once that happens, that part of the map would become empty and prove no challenge to the player.

ShadowMage
04-07-2003, 07:11 PM
Interesting point, I have to agree with Katarn07. How did they manage to avoid that dilemma in the JO storyline? I did not pay attention to that aspect while playing through it.

The_One
04-07-2003, 07:12 PM
I believe that only happens in wide open areas, like the courtyard in Secbase. That doesn't happen in corridors and the like, of which DF is mainly composed.

If it does prove to be a problem (unlikely), I'm sure there are ways of scripting the enemies to stay put...

Katarn07
04-07-2003, 07:14 PM
I just played through your demo and realize it does only happen in open areas. So, in other words, disreagrd this except for outdoor levels. (ie Sec Base, Anteevy, Gromas, etc [you know the ones])

The_One
04-07-2003, 07:17 PM
It also depends on the size of the outdoor area. The outdoor area of Secbase is fairly small, whereas Gromas' is huge. There shouldn't be an issue there...

Ackehallgren
04-09-2003, 01:51 AM
Dont mean to pick on u guys, your doing a great job...

But i at least think some enemies are (ok, this might be me, not remembering right) misplaced... the commando and the officer in the beginning, when you fall down, are they there in the real version?

Also, when u open the door, to the cortyard there should be just one stormtrooper (i remember this since this time was the first time i noticed the OII thing on their back) facing away from you.

But when i get out in the demo, there are two (if they didnt hear me)...

And in the lift room, where your going up to get the red key...

there are two troopers in the lift room, two by the officer, and two in the other lift room...

Am i right, or is my brain malfunctioning? :explode: :D

The_One
04-09-2003, 06:38 AM
I can't remember exactly, but alot of the DF enemy placements are very odd. You walk up to troopers who have their backs to you - not exactly realistic. As we've said many times before, we are trying to make DF as the developers would have done if they'd had today's technology. If that means having to place the enemies better, then so be it :)