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Darth Groovy
04-07-2003, 08:22 PM
*puts on flame retardent suit and grabs megaphone*

Ok listen up. I personally do not like the Dixie Chicks, I don't like they're music. However I do respect that they are grammy award winning artists who have fans who adore them. What I do not respect is the fact that at least once a day CNN makes it publicly aware that one of the singers in that group made a comment that they were embarassed by their president for starting a war. Now all of the sudden radio stations will not play their music, and other Country singers are calling them names and bashing them senseless using the same press as a tool. Alot of these stations are the same stations that find no problem playing songs about sex, drugs, and violence. Now all of the sudden, an anit-Bush, or Anti war statement becomes Taboo. The fact that stations will not play their music is in fact also "Anti-American", and "Anti- Constitutional". Actor Martin Sheen who ironically plays the President on "West Wing", also activily protests the war. Do we ever here his arguments? No, they just show his face and talk about his arrest record. The same thing happened to the Beatles in 1966, where frontman John Lennon made a statement that in some states they were seen as being more popular then Jesus, which for all sakes and purposes was almost true, and they had the record sales to show for it. But then they were booed off the stage, and their records were burned in the bible belt. What a bunch of garbage.
I am not pro- war. War is never the answer. I do not believe that anyone is really pro-war. I do however feel that war was inevitable but maybe a bit premature. More disscussions and persuasion for other countries to get involved would have been better. In fact, had more countries got involved, I do believe the war would be over by now, and we would be seeing a regime change now, instead of watching tanks roll inot Bahgdad on CNN. As a former Veteran of the United States Navy, I will and always shall be, pro military. I am for the troops. I happen to know that as a service member, you never question your commander in chief, weather he is right or wrong. You swear and oath to "do your duty, and defend your country, regardless of the paramaters of the situation in question. However it is these troops that are doing their duty to defend our rights in the United States, our freedom. Including our freedom of speech. For radio stations and TV stations alike to ban, or refuse to play songs from artists for making anti-war, or anti Bush statements denys us that freedom, that our troops are willing to die to defend. Poeple who know me, realize that I always respect everyone's thoughts and opinions, as long as they do it in a civil matter, and use evidence to support their beliefs. No, don't get me wrong, when streets are shut down to protest a war, the protesters are in the wrong. When an angry mob of people cross the line in front of the White House, they are also wrong. When anyone uses any act of violence or vandalism to protest a war and promote peace, they are hypocrites. However, when the Dixie Chicks get banned from radio stations for something they said in a press conference, that is both Anti-American and absurd.
Also, do you think every troop that is fighting in Iraq is pro-war or pro Bush? I personally believe that maybe most of them are, but I do know that once you belong to the United States Military, you are governed by a different set of rules. You cannot actively demonstrate anything anti-American without a big fat Article 15, wich referes to Administrative Punishment. You become property of the military, which is why you will never hear Soldiers on CNN protesting Bush, or the War In Iraq.

So my final words on this, are Soldiers are duing they duty to defend our freedom, which like it or not includes "Freedom Of Speech", and "Freedom Of Press". As far as I am concerned, I respect the Dixies Chicks' rights as both Artists, and Americans. I will never purchase they're music or see them in concert, but I will defend their rights as Americans to say what they feel, and protest the stations that lash out against them. People will never learn to respect each other's opinions, so therefore people will never grow up. You have the right to believe what you will, and say what you want.......but not in public?

Message to CNN: Get off the Dixie Chicks for crying out loud! :mad:

El Sitherino
04-07-2003, 08:25 PM
you basically summed up how i feel so I'll just add my agreement.


W3RD

Kain
04-07-2003, 08:33 PM
Heh, at first I was wondering why a thread called Dixie Chicks was in the Senate, but I see.

Personally, I think Bush is an overzealous, trigger-happy, quick to the death, idiot. Will I protest and block a street? The Constitution says I have the Right, but I won't. At almost every anti-war protest, someone has been injured. Rubber bullets were fired in California at some protesters. What does this show? To me, it shows that
A: Californian police like to beat people(Rodney King!) and
B: Bush is probably making the police do such acts.
Why do I think this? Because as I said before, Bush is an overzealous, trigger-happy, quick to the death, idiot.
Like Groovy, I'll never listen to Dixie Chicks, never buy an album, ect. But for people to not play their songs for their fans, can we all say in unison "DIRTY". Yes very good. Of course, with Idio...Bush in office, it makes sense that CNN is all over famous people who are against his idiocy. I can see it now(dreamy flash back wavy deally)...

In other news, the rock band System of a Down was arrested to day on counts of conspiracy. The middle-eastern lead singer has been known as a Taliban spy, and the song 'Boom', the anti-war song, contains subleminal(SP?) messages to the terrorist orginization and to their listeners, turning them into would be assassins.

My Contemporary History teacher is Anti-Bush, and he's in the Military. Shows that not all the grunts likes their Commander and Chief.

griff38
04-07-2003, 08:41 PM
Jaw on floor.
Man your right as right can be. I can't understand why some believe that complaining about the president or one of his appointed officials is the same as condeming the troops.
Simply not so, it's the right & responsibility of civilians to complain about these things if they so choose. But US soldiers, airmen, sailors & marines give up some of their constitutional rights when they join and are not entitled to complain. They must follow their lawful orders. I think most civilians these days understand this.

I have not seen or heard of anyone complaining about our troops. Not the troops, Zero, zilch.

We all want them back home. They are our friends and family too.

I don't listen to country music, but i did take the trouble to call the local station and request Dixie Chicks, but it turns out that they have not stopped playing them. :)

I got this suggestion from Micheal Moore.

Darth Groovy
04-07-2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by MydnightPsion

In other news, the rock band System of a Down was arrested to day on counts of conspiracy. The middle-eastern lead singer has been known as a Taliban spy, and the song 'Boom', the anti-war song, contains subleminal(SP?) messages to the terrorist orginization and to their listeners, turning them into would be assassins.

My Contemporary History teacher is Anti-Bush, and he's in the Military. Shows that not all the grunts likes their Commander and Chief.

That is a very scary thought to me. It is like McCarthyism all over again, where countless people were blacklisted as being pro-communists, which is also not to dissimilar, from the Salem Witch Trials, only lives were not taken, but careers were tarnished and poeple suffered from defamation of character.... another low blow.

El Sitherino
04-07-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
That is a very scary thought to me. It is like McCarthyism all over again, where countless people were blacklisted as being pro-communists i did a report on that. i found the hollywood ten (ten top hollywood actors and actresses acused of being commie sypmathizers and un american.) truely sad that people are as stupid as to make the same mistakes over again.

ET Warrior
04-07-2003, 09:14 PM
One thing.......Their not they're..................you misused it a lot in the first post.......and i hate to be a jerk about it...but that's my pet-peeve ;) :p

Darth Groovy
04-07-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
One thing.......Their not they're..................you misused it a lot in the first post.......and i hate to be a jerk about it...but that's my pet-peeve ;) :p

I do that alot. I ALWAYS get confused on the use of those words; they're, their, there....etc. I need some sort of link to bookmark, so that I quit making that mistake, it is just one of those things that microsuck spellcheckers do not pick up on. Sorry that bothered you.

griff38
04-08-2003, 07:57 AM
Don't worry about spellling, Eye am probably the wurst spelller in hear :):p

Dixie chicks are not the only ones having their freedom of speech trampled on.


Give em He** Kerry (http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/04/07/kerry/index.html)

URL=http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/04/07/oakland_protests/index.html]evil peace lovers]protesters and bystanders[/URL]


P.S. What was your MOS in the Navy Darth?[

ET Warrior
04-08-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by MydnightPsion
In other news, the rock band System of a Down was arrested to day on counts of conspiracy. The middle-eastern lead singer has been known as a Taliban spy, and the song 'Boom', the anti-war song, contains subleminal(SP?) messages to the terrorist orginization and to their listeners, turning them into would be assassins.

Woah.......I really like the song Boom..............hold on while I get my gun and attempt to assassinate Bush :rolleyes:

ioshee
04-08-2003, 11:17 AM
I agree with most of what you said Darth Groovy, and I know it sounds bias but I respect your opinions even more because you were/are in the military. There is one thing Iíd like to point out to all the liberal zealots in the room:

Originally posted by Darth Groovy
...For radio stations and TV stations alike to ban, or refuse to play songs from artists for making anti-war, or anti Bush statements denys us that freedom, that our troops are willing to die to defendÖ

I disagree with this statement in particular. Itís hypocritical to say that the Dixie Chicks have the right to say what they want, but then to also say that the media and other celebrities donít have the right to disagree. If other country singers are slamming the Dixie Chicks because they donít like what they believe, how is that different then people slamming Bush?

-The Dixie Chicks have the right to say they are embarrassed about being from the same state as Bush
-Other celebrities and even the news media have the right to disagree with them
-You have the right to disagree with those other celebrities and the news media
-I have the right to disagree with you about that
-you have the right to disagree with me disagreeing with you:D

I love America.

SkinWalker
04-08-2003, 11:57 AM
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself. - Archibald MacLeish

There is cause to dissent against Bush. The problem is, especially in time of war, when people chose to speak out against the President, it is mistakingly taken to be speaking out agains the country.

I consider it brave and courageous to be willing to speak against Bush, knowing that so many people will counter with "traitor," "terrorist," etc., because their small minds cannot accept that the man in the Whitehouse could be wrong. Even if that man led a questionable lifestyle until a few years before going into politics. Even though he mainained a "C" average in college. Even though he all but acknowledged being an alcoholic. Even though he engaged in many questionable business deals.

The real dissent against our country is NOT speaking out.

I bought two Dixie Chicks CD's in the last three weeks. I'm buying another this week. I don't even like country music... I'm a Jazz / Blues fan.

ioshee
04-08-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
There is cause to dissent against Bush...

Thatís your opinion, which you are allowed to share.
If someone says they think the Dixie Chicks are idiots for what one of them said, then that is their opinion, which they are also allowed to share.

It sounds to me that you want freedom of speech only when people are ďspeachingĒ what you want to hear.

SkinWalker
04-08-2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by ioshee
It sounds to me that you want freedom of speech only when people are ďspeachingĒ what you want to hear.

No. My point was that the descriptions of "traitors" and "unAmerican" that I've heard applied to the Dixie Chicks, are, by definition, in correct. The Dixie Chicks did not jeapordize the nation by their comments and their exercise of Free Speech was not harmful or threatening to others. She said she was, "embarrassed to be from the same state as Bush." That was it. She didn't say, "someone should shoot the guy" or anything threatening.

People have been critical of presidents since long before either of us were born. That didn't make them traitors or treasonist, and it certainly didn't make them unAmerican. One of the local radio stations here in Dallas had a DJ make a comment that compared her to terrorists, suggesting that she might be "in cahoots."

THAT smacks of McCarthyism. Whenever the government disagreed with an individual in the 1950's and early 60's, that someone was accused of being a Communist. It was akin to calling your local pastor a "child molestor" because you didn't like his sermon.

The Dixie Chicks member in question spoke of her embarrassment. The rest of the country speaks of their ignorance.

ioshee
04-08-2003, 01:41 PM
I see your point. It is (in my opinion) totally ridiculous to call someone a traitor for sharing their beliefs.

While you may call Bush an idiot, that is still totally subjective, but to call someone a terrorist has greater implications then simply ďidiot.Ē

Good points SkinWalker.

Darth Groovy
04-08-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by ioshee
I agree with most of what you said Darth Groovy, and I know it sounds bias but I respect your opinions even more because you were/are in the military. There is one thing Iíd like to point out to all the liberal zealots in the room:



I disagree with this statement in particular. Itís hypocritical to say that the Dixie Chicks have the right to say what they want, but then to also say that the media and other celebrities donít have the right to disagree. If other country singers are slamming the Dixie Chicks because they donít like what they believe, how is that different then people slamming Bush?

-The Dixie Chicks have the right to say they are embarrassed about being from the same state as Bush
-Other celebrities and even the news media have the right to disagree with them
-You have the right to disagree with those other celebrities and the news media
-I have the right to disagree with you about that
-you have the right to disagree with me disagreeing with you:D

I love America.

You are on the right track to disagree, and I agree with your decision to disagree. :p


P.S. What was your MOS in the Navy Darth?

JOSN, Journalist Seaman's Apprentice. I never got promoted, which was one of many reasons I did not re-enlist.

daring dueler
04-09-2003, 05:03 PM
well they should be grinded into meat for cows! just kidding but it does agrivate me at what they say.

Thrackan Solo
04-09-2003, 05:56 PM
Please the Dixie Chicks no as much about politics as a dog.
But what aggravates me is that they said it overseas and criticising there own president. I beleive that no matter what we beleive we should still respect him, and one more thing, if you are not living in america or an american citizen, and i dont mean this in a degrading way but dont critisize our goverment if you care about Americas leadership so mush move here and seven years from now you can vote.

ioshee
04-09-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by daring dueler
well they should be grinded into meat for cows! just kidding but it does agrivate me at what they say.

Yeah the Dixie Chick that said it is "the fat one" so that would be a whole heck of a lot of meat.

Although cows don't eat meat, so maybe we could just feed her to some starving Iraqis.

El Sitherino
04-09-2003, 07:13 PM
i say bush is an idiot and they are right its ashamed he's from texas he makes us look like idiot's (though most people who are like thracken live here so most are) he declared war on iraq with no real proof. and they can say what they want. they have human rights just like me and you. who the **** are you to take it away from them?

Breton
04-09-2003, 07:21 PM
Even though I don't think artists should be active in political matters, they still have 100% right to mean whatever they want. If you don't allow people to critizise the president, you've almost turned as bad as Saddam.

El Sitherino
04-09-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Breton
Even though I don't think artists should be active in political matters why not their arguments are just as valid as ours. they just happen to work on stages so they use that to voice their opinions just like i go to school and voice mine. you gotta use what you have to let your voice be heard. please stop being stupid like these crappy rednecks that say they shouldnt use their stages to voice their opinion. think of the senate as your stage and you use it to voice your opinion. hope that helped enlighten everyone :)

Breton
04-09-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
why not their arguments are just as valid as ours. they just happen to work on stages so they use that to voice their opinions just like i go to school and voice mine. you gotta use what you have to let your voice be heard. please stop being stupid like these crappy rednecks that say they shouldnt use their stages to voice their opinion. think of the senate as your stage and you use it to voice your opinion. hope that helped enlighten everyone :)

Well, these are people who a lot of people look up to, and are trying to be just like them. I'm not saying artist shouldn't be able to have opinions, but I just don't think it's right of them to try to affect their fans in such a way. Because their fans would probably agree with them whatever they say.

El Sitherino
04-09-2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Breton
Well, these are people who a lot of people look up to, and are trying to be just like them. I'm not saying artist shouldn't be able to have opinions, but I just don't think it's right of them to try to affect their fans in such a way. Because their fans would probably agree with them whatever they say. i guess but still i think they should because they need to express how they feel and apparently they lost over 30,000 fans according to USA Today

Thrackan Solo
04-09-2003, 08:07 PM
(though most people who are like thracken live here so most are)

hey man dont make it personal dude its all cool....
and have you seen the iraqis rejoicing in the streets and thanking bush and praising America is that not enough reason?
I support our troops and president.

P.S Thrackan not thracken

ioshee
04-09-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
i say bush is an idiot and they are right its ashamed he's from texas he makes us look like idiot's (though most people who are like thracken live here so most are) he declared war on iraq with no real proof...


Did you even read any of the posts on this thread or are you just using this as another place to voice your opinion about Bush? You donít need Bush or Thrackan (who I think is a genius by the way) to look like an idiot. You can do that all on your own:Dj/k

You have every right to tell people how you feel about Bush and so does the fat girl from the Dixie Chicks. But you can't keep shouting "freedom of speach" and then say people don't have the right to disagree with you and the fat girl from the dixie chicks.

Originally posted by InsaneSith
...and they can say what they want. they have human rights just like me and you. who the **** are you to take it away from them?

Who is taking away their rights? I'd honestly like to know. Youíre not talking about people boycotting the Dixie Chicks are you? If people want to boycott something, then that is just freedom of speech through action baby. Who are you to take peoples freedom away from them by telling them they have to buy Dixie Chick albums?

ET Warrior
04-09-2003, 10:15 PM
I actually had no problem with what they said........the thing that made me lose respect for them is when they publicly appologized for what they said......i mean, if they really think he's dumb then they think he's dumb. But they need to stick with their opinions and not just change it because they're going to lose money because of it.

Darth Groovy
04-09-2003, 11:08 PM
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if their record label persuaded them to apologize. Funny things happen with artists that are over seas when they start talking. Has anyone ever seen Great Balls of Fire?

Basically when Jerry Lee Lewis was at the top of the charts, by the time he hit England, rumor leeked out that he married his 13 year old cousin (all together now, EEEEWWW). Well the big lunkhead was questioned about it, and went against his manager's wish to keep it under wraps. He was booed off the stage, and upon departing England, basically told the entire country to kiss his ass. His career collapsed soon after, despite a persuaded public apology from him by his record label.

El Sitherino
04-10-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by ioshee
Did you even read any of the posts on this thread or are you just using this as another place to voice your opinion about Bush? You donít need Bush or Thrackan (who I think is a genius by the way) to look like an idiot. You can do that all on your own:Dj/k

You have every right to tell people how you feel about Bush and so does the fat girl from the Dixie Chicks. But you can't keep shouting "freedom of speach" and then say people don't have the right to disagree with you and the fat girl from the dixie chicks.



Who is taking away their rights? I'd honestly like to know. Youíre not talking about people boycotting the Dixie Chicks are you? If people want to boycott something, then that is just freedom of speech through action baby. Who are you to take peoples freedom away from them by telling them they have to buy Dixie Chick albums? im just saying why do you condemn someone just because of what they say i didnt say to stop saying your opinion (just get all the facts and understand the person before you state them)

ioshee
04-11-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
im just saying why do you condemn someone just because of what they say i didnt say to stop saying your opinion (just get all the facts and understand the person before you state them)

That's true, you didn't say to stop talking. Good point.

ShadowTemplar
04-15-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by MydnightPsion
A: Californian police like to beat people(Rodney King!) and
B: Bush is probably making the police do such acts.

C: Many rioters use demonstrations as cover, and the demonstration organisers are usually too thick-headed/unwilling to realize this and instruct the demonstrants in what to do if trouble starts (it's really simple; sit down en masse, that way you clearly mark who's causing the trouble (my guess would be the guy holding the molotov), and make it relatively easy for the police to make a targeted arrest).

Originally posted by MydnightPsion
In other news, the rock band System of a Down was arrested to day on counts of conspiracy. The middle-eastern lead singer has been known as a Taliban spy, and the song 'Boom', the anti-war song, contains subleminal(SP?) messages to the terrorist orginization and to their listeners, turning them into would be assassins.

Known or suspected? 'Subleminal messages'? U sure it's not 'encoded messages', meant to activate 'sleeping cells'? As far as I know, subliminal messages are not possible.

Now I'm no pro-Bush flag-waver, but I think that that last part deserves more looking into before you use it to discredit el Prez.