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View Full Version : Vote For A New Awesome Force Power!


Luc Solar
04-12-2003, 06:50 AM
IMHO this issue deserves some special attention. :)

As I suggested in the sticky thread:

Not only pushable & pullable objects, but a whole new force power: a sort of TELEKINESIS power that lets you, in a grip-like fashion, manipulate objects!

Smash a crate in the face of the attacking enemy sending him flying off the cliff, or use it to block the incoming missile!

Imagine attacking a player who suddenly "grips" a crate from the nearby ledge and hurls it in your face. Imagine reflexively using Force push a split second before the crate hits you sending it flying forward, squashing the opponent against a wall.

And not only are you able to control various objects (speed of movement etc. depending on the size of the object and your force lvl) with "telekinesis", you could also use other powers in conjunction with it.

Imagine the possibilities, especially in team games! Blocking paths, using objects as weapons, setting up eeeevil traps... :D

Voting time! Let Raven know you want this in JA. It would definitely elevate MP gaming to a whole new level.

SettingShadow
04-12-2003, 07:05 AM
I vote.... *drums rolls*.......... yes..!

I agree it be awesome.

Though I do feel sorry for Luke in ESB when Vader sent things on him... poor chap :D

HertogJan
04-12-2003, 07:46 AM
I'll vote yes... It should be a neutral forcepower and you could do great stuff with it! I don't how to control the objects you can move around though, it can be pretty hard to move them up, down, forward and backward...

But it can be great I think :D

The_true_lynk
04-12-2003, 07:55 AM
I'll vote yes aswell, that will be awesome to use the force to slam objects into your enemies, just imagine it! Cups and stuff would be flying everywhere!

HaruGlory89
04-12-2003, 09:51 AM
I agree! I wanted to post a thread about this but you got it first! ;)

n0th1ng
04-12-2003, 10:59 AM
they had something simlar in JK1, you could break stuff like glass with push as well as push&pull objects(yes,even in MP)

Orangina_Rouge
04-12-2003, 11:20 AM
There was a power like this in JK 1 to attack with objects ........ it was pretty lame ( that s why they removed it from MOTS )
If they implement it ...... they should be pretty cautious about its balance
Also it should be a Dark side power ...... attacking a living being with objects using Telekinesis has allways be an agressive move leading to the dark side ( it gives u a DSP in SW pen and pencil RPG )

greedo626
04-12-2003, 11:24 AM
I think it would be cool, but hard to pull off effectivly. but I'm sure the guys at Raven could make it work. I vote yes;)

El_graco
04-12-2003, 11:46 AM
You mean like when Darth vadar pushed a couple of objects at luke or when dooku tried to squish yoda with the ceiling :)

Hell yeah, great idea

CanadianSurfer
04-12-2003, 12:00 PM
Sounds like a good idea. :)

Luc Solar
04-12-2003, 12:24 PM
I wouldn't want the force to be all about attacking.

Simply the possibility of controlling objects would make JA a helluva lot more interesting that JO.

A flag carrier could escape his chasers by blocking the path behind him by himself or with the help of team members.

Objects could be used to get to places where you normally couldn't go (exploitable, I know).

Place a boulder to block the spawn-point of the flechette.

Toss a large shield to your buddy below.

Drop a huge crate on two rpg'ers /amsitting! The possibilities are endless, people! :D

I'm not talking about the sort of power we had in JK1. That was purely offensive, much like Lightning. The key-word with "telekinesis" is CONTROL.

If you could damage other players by throwing a gripped player into them, would you do that? Probably yes..but it's not like that would be your primary offensive move, right?

I wouldn't want to see a rage-speeding bunnyhopping player carrying half of the map in the air throwing rocks, boulders, crates, pillars and all sorts of debris around. It shouldn't be that kind of power.

Gripping objects instead of players is pretty much what I'm talking about. :)

(EDIT: In order for this to work like it should, we need a sort of "horizontal fall damage". If you're gripped and thrown into a wall, you take damage. Same thing if someone slams a crate in your back.)

Valo
04-12-2003, 12:27 PM
i think it would be interesting to have it so u can move certain objects with the force power (cross-hairs will glow if it can be moved) u would then hit the force button, then u would have full control of the object but u would be standing still and be open to attacks, but once u were controlling it u could use your mouse to move it around your character. for exmaple, your jedi is surrounded by stormtroopers, u see a box that can be moved, put your cross hairs on it then hit the force button, and with a quick spin of the mouse u spin the box around u taking out the enemies, then u would hit the force button again to drop it.

i know Raven isnt going to listen to these ideas becuase the game is almost done, but it is still interresting to talk about. and who knows maybe they have already come up with a similar idea.

Khier
04-12-2003, 04:31 PM
Well I think it can still definitely be implemented since it's only about 60% completed, and I think that's only the maps, cutscenes, scripting, etc. I feel it's a good idea, in Obi-Wan for Xbox there was a force power that allowed you to just press the button and then an object in the vicinity of the player could be hurled at the opponent, it was pretty cool It thought. I don't believe it necessarily should mean that you'll go to the dark side or anything, you're just using the environment around you to your advantage, isn't almost the same thing as force pushing someone? Instead you're just pushing an object into the individual, or dropping or pulling or whatever.

HBK
04-12-2003, 04:32 PM
SP, definetly. MP = no, eh maybe, eh sure why not

Maybe in Luc Solars description, it would make for an interesting tool. But, I don't see many people developing it this way. I expect throw spammers. It may be good for a laugh, I don't think it will add anything to MP in the long run.

But, I say add it. As a weapon it would most likely be easy to defeat(sabre, push) so no problem there. As a tool it could prove very useful. I just know that it will be very annoying when anything and everything is flying across the screen, all the time. Maybe so annoying I would change my vote to NO in MP.

Thrackan Solo
04-12-2003, 04:37 PM
that would be cool but maybe hard to control

Smood
04-12-2003, 09:50 PM
Voting time! Let Raven know you want this in JA. It would definitely elevate MP gaming to a whole new level.

This is the point I've been stating for the entire time. Well at least it relates to this. RAVEN rarely come to these forums. EVERY THREAD is not read by any official, or anyone involved even indirectly in the development of JEDI ACADEMY.

This is why I feel we must send our discussion or awaken raven to the fact that we 'THE MIND POOL' that must be satisfied with their games should be tapped into, to design a game WE WANT!

Sage
04-12-2003, 11:18 PM
good idea i voted yes:D

master_thomas
04-13-2003, 12:16 AM
Drop a huge crate on two rpg'ers /amsitting! The possibilities are endless, people!

Take that, fanboys!

It would be hard to implement, maybe, you could specify manipulation keys and while you hold it,(constantly draining force pool) you can control it. While you manipulate it will drain faster. It will accelerate gradually when in constant motion and direction and when you let go of the button, it will decellarate quickly. Terrible problem with this, though. The dreaded, HOM effect of the deadly void. Maybe, they can make structural brushes immovable (All mappers should know what I'm talking about).

The larger the object, the faster it drains force pool. If hit is utterly huge, you will see the player sort of struggle with his/her mind to pick it up (although, as Yoda once said when Luke doubted the ability to lift is X-wing, saying it was too big, unlike the pebbles he was manipulating, "It is not different! Only in your mind" as he lifted it out of the swamp and onto dry ground. The more points you have for the telekenises power, the larger the object you can pick up and the less force pool is drained.

coupes.
04-13-2003, 02:06 AM
i think you could do it two ways:

1: you do it like force choke level 3 in JO, but with objects instead of enemies. The force diminishes the same way as choke.

2: you select (click + key i dunno) an object and select a target and voila, the force used depends on the size of the object and the distance i has to travel.

Luc Solar
04-13-2003, 04:36 AM
I don't really like the "point-'n-click" method. It would make controlling the object much harder. I mean...what if you want to place the crate in a whole behind a corner? Select, aim, click + select, aim, click + select, aim, click. And you couldn't move objects to places that you can't see at all.

How could you control how far you want to place the object? If I wanted to drop it from a legde, I'd have to select it, jump down and select a spot on the ground...or something.

You should be able to move while controlling objects. That would be essential in making the power useful. Not strafe jumping or running with huuuge crates, though. :D

I'm sure I or someone else mentioned this already, but the object, especially big ones, should gain momentum when moved...like in hammer throwing. Without enough momentum, it would cause no damage nor fly a long distance. (A good long swing accompanied by a push or pushes from your teammates however.. whoa!)

As for having stuff flying all over... I doubt it. That's something map designers can decide, however. (I could imagine some pretty fun mod-ideas coming out of this :D )
Think about the maps we got in JO. How many objects do you see there that could be manipulated? Not many. A few pillars, a few crates..that's about it. And that's pretty much how I'd like it to be in JA too. (Well, maybe a bit more stuff to move, but not too much!)

Telekinesis should be a neutral power, just like push & pull (it's not evil as such, depends on how you use it)...but not Uber. Not a power that let's you drop the whole map on your opponent. Not a power that dominates duels and turns them into a throw-stuff-contest.
Just something FUN, something that adds a whole new strategic element to team games, especially CTF (I believe). Block the path of a rage-speeder who can't move the object out of the way 'cause he is out of force. Slow down the players who chase the flag by dropping a barrier down a split second after your guy has passed by..

You could do so many cool things... :) I WANT IT! :ball:

(EDIT: I just realized that I'm repeating myself. :o ..oh well. )

topshot
04-13-2003, 10:03 AM
Telekinesis would be a good force ability, as long as they implement the good ol' "Force Destruction" from DF2. Imagine lifting somebody into the air without using grip and then just giving 'em the good ol' taste of pure darkness! One destructive blast, enemies are dead. That would be a sweet move........:D

vegietto
04-13-2003, 10:06 AM
that would be nice to have i would like to have it

HertogJan
04-13-2003, 11:19 AM
Hmm if the darkside gets a power like destruction (I liked that power :D), then what will the lightside have?? Something like blinding in JK, but without the countering push/pull etc crap... It just blinds your oppontents, making them sitting ducks :D

Altus_Thrawn
04-13-2003, 12:17 PM
This is a good idea, but hard to pull off.
First, you would have to regulate which objects can be manipulated.
If you could manipulate everything you would be fighting in a tornado. But you also need a fair amount of stuff, that is in most places you go there are 1 or 2 manipulatable objects.
Secondly, the control would be hard. You have to regulate direction, elevation, and distance. Maybe mouse moves around like grip, and mouse buttons make it go farther or closer to you? Lastly, hurting people with it might be hard, I immagine you would need a sort of trigger_hurt, but you don't want an ordirary desk hurting you if you slowly walk into it.

Luc Solar
04-13-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Altus_Thrawn
This is a good idea, but hard to pull off.
First, you would have to regulate which objects can be manipulated.

Right. But that is hardly impossible? I'm more worried about how they could make the size of the object correlate with the speed with which it can be moved and the damage it causes.. But I'm not a programmer, so something that might seem easy to me might require a whole new engine.

If you could manipulate everything you would be fighting in a tornado. But you also need a fair amount of stuff, that is in most places you go there are 1 or 2 manipulatable objects.

Yes. Like the few crates on the Star Destroyer map. (The spot where the repeater and the large shield spawns near the 2 medpacks) The possibility to manipulate those few boxes alone would make the map pretty darn interesting. :)

Secondly, the control would be hard. You have to regulate direction, elevation, and distance. Maybe mouse moves around like grip, and mouse buttons make it go farther or closer to you? Lastly, hurting people with it might be hard, I immagine you would need a sort of trigger_hurt, but you don't want an ordirary desk hurting you if you slowly walk into it.

I could do without the "distance". If you want it further away, you could simply walk forward. It might seem a bit silly to levitate a boulder from the other side of the map anyways. Perhaps a minimum distance (like with grip) for the force to "activate"...If you want more distance, move backwards and grab it from farther away. If you want to use it as a shield or something, run right beside it before you grab it. If you want to place it far away, use push+throw.

Very simple and intuitive, yes? But sure.. being able to move it closer and further away would be cool. That will require an extra key though...

Iblis Reborn
04-13-2003, 03:58 PM
maybe if you just pick it up like grip to move it around but when you wanna throw it you do a charged push or something
the more force you put in it the farther it goes type thing so you can either just drop it where you need it or give it a good shove

MattJedi
04-13-2003, 07:14 PM
Pretty simple really, the force power would grab the object like you would force choke somone, then you can either fling the object using the mouse, or you can hold it up and push it into somone who can then in turn push it back, much like pushing rockets except the box would not be flying so the person pushing it back probly won't have control over it unless they grab it using the force power, or they can push it away using force push. This should be a neutral power.

Blamer
04-13-2003, 07:36 PM
Well, I think you need to be able to move the object in three dimensions. You might want to levitate an object over a chasm or pick up an object from the other side, for example. Maybe the push and pull keys could draw the object away from or toward you when you held them down. This idea could be applied to Grip on high levels as well.

nova_wolf
04-13-2003, 07:41 PM
Grip is simply a very well controlled and mastered form of the basic Force TK skills we know seperatly as Push and Pull.
Doesnot therefore sound too hard - you simple have a variable for certain pieces of the enviroment that you want to be throwable, and sat it HIGH if you want Force Grip to effect it, in which case you can sling stuff round.

MattJedi
04-14-2003, 10:59 AM
Moving the object in three dimensions is getting too complicated. I don't think we need all these people standing around moving objects around. The way I see it you only are gonna have enough time to pick up the object and fling/push it at somone before they attack you anyway. It would make battles more interesting, and in single player if you wanted to move it forward you just walk forward, like choke. It could work exactly like choke does but it shouldn't take any time to lock on like choke does. It should be instant, you grab and throw in like a second. Damn I hope Raven is reading this this is a damn good idea!!!

master_thomas
04-14-2003, 03:51 PM
You don't seem to be paying my ideas any mind :(.

Detail brushes, are made in the maps. They are not big walls that block the vis process of compilation. They are smaller details, like pillars. You can only pull detail objects below a certain size (I don't know how this can be done), but you can't pull structural brushes due to technical problems that would arise from doing this.

The actual manipulation of the object can be done with separate
keys (could be hard to move while using it though, because you have to hit multiple keys at the same time).

taekwondo joe
04-14-2003, 04:57 PM
my vote is yes, that woulld be cool