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griff38
04-15-2003, 10:58 AM
I have not found any info regarding new sabre throws. Are we gonna be stuck with the same single throw like in JO?
I have always felt the animation for it was weak. Not to mention the fact there is only 1 throw. It would be nice if we could at least have a different throw for each stance.

How about an overhand or underhand vertical throw instead of it spinning away horizontally?

GhostLotus
04-15-2003, 11:06 AM
Hmmm, well i have to say it would be rather unlikely, if its not broken dot fix it and i dont see everyone standing in line to delay the game another week just to add a new animation:confused:

Prime
04-15-2003, 11:28 AM
I just hope it is not implemented in such a way that all people do is saber throw. There should be drawbacks, much more so than there is now.

GhostLotus
04-15-2003, 11:35 AM
Now there IS a point in that, the problem with jo is that the gameplay isnt very balanced and that its very exploitable.

Things like grip-kick-saberthrow do high amounts of damage and are nearly unblockable unless the opponent uses absorb.

In duels all i see nowadays is that all the more seasoned players use strong stance.

This becomes very repetitive, everyone exploits the same quirks as they know they cant win against someone who does it continuasly.

Prime
04-15-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by GhostLotus
Things like grip-kick-saberthrow do high amounts of damage and are nearly unblockable unless the opponent uses absorb.

In duels all i see nowadays is that all the more seasoned players use strong stance.Unfortunately, even with absorb on, you can still pull-throw. This makes it so you have no defense (that I know of) against these players. With absorb off, pull-kick until your heart's content. If they turn on absorb, pull-throw away.

As for strong stance, it was designed specifically for duels, as explained in the manual. Which is why it is the most effective.

Pedro The Hutt
04-15-2003, 01:46 PM
Personally I don't even have sabertoss at all in JKII, I'm much more content with my saber in my hands,(edit: and as Obi-Wan said: this weapon is your life!) but adding some disadvantages to the saber throw would be nice. or at least something that would make grip/pull throw useless/counterable. And give some use to the other stances again.

StormHammer
04-15-2003, 01:48 PM
who knows what they have planned for saber throw? If they are talking about combining Force powers, maybe you'll be able to steer the thing in flight to home in on a target. I can't see them needlessly putting in different vertical/horizontal/diagonal spins unless it has some kind of purpose. I can pretty much imagine a fast low spin for the dualstaff, though, to chop your opponent's legs out from under them. Heh. :D

Of course what you also haven't considered is the possibility that you might be able to throw two sabers at the same time (if you have them of course)... :eek:

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a target system - pick a target for the blade to home in on (like locking on with a missile), throw it and forget while you continue fighting (none of this hand out waiting business), then a quick grab as the blade returns. If I've got two sabers, I want to be able to continue fighting properly with one saber while the other's in the air.

Talking about all this spinning - I want to do a quick 360 degree spin with two blades at full stretch (kind of like Maw did in JK). :D

The_One
04-15-2003, 03:22 PM
When we see the sabre thrown in the films, it is at an object - the support of the bridge type thing. I'd like to be able to do more object destruction with the sabre. At the moment, all we can do in terms of destruction is the odd puzzle here and there. I'd like to be able to throw it at all sorts of objects and watch them disintegrate. That would just make it seem a bit more realistic, rather than it bouncing back whenever it hits an object...

Rumor
04-15-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by GhostLotus


Things like grip-kick-saberthrow do high amounts of damage and are nearly unblockable unless the opponent uses absorb.



ever think of trying to use push/pull/drain/lightning? all of the FF players i know play darkside, so absorb wouldn't really help them would it

there is also the glitch kick when ur being gripped and u can very easily kill THEM when they gk you even from full health

JEDI OUTCAST
04-15-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by griff38
I have not found any info regarding new sabre throws. Are we gonna be stuck with the same single throw like in JO?
I have always felt the animation for it was weak. Not to mention the fact there is only 1 throw. It would be nice if we could at least have a different throw for each stance.

How about an overhand or underhand vertical throw instead of it spinning away horizontally?

no. what i know is that saber throw has been re done.

Pedantic
04-16-2003, 12:04 AM
I think it might be better if it seemed more like the character was actually throwing it, rather than them opening their hand and the saber just sort of floats out of their hand.

t3rr0r
04-16-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by JEDI OUTCAST
... what i know...
sure, yeah, ok...

Blamer
04-16-2003, 03:45 PM
I like saber throw, but like someone else said, the animations leave something to be desired. I would put up with a delay in the release if I could see a badass animation of my guy throwing the saber...

StormHammer
04-16-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Blamer
I like saber throw, but like someone else said, the animations leave something to be desired. I would put up with a delay in the release if I could see a badass animation of my guy throwing the saber...

Judging by the info in the PCGamer article, I don't think you need to worry about the quality of the animations this time around. With an even greater emphasis on lightsaber combat, I'm sure they're tweaking all the animation to the hilt.

Blademaster_109
04-16-2003, 04:04 PM
i think that in jkII ppl used saber throw to much, but in sp it was helpful to mow down stormtroopers

Prime
04-17-2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Blademaster_109
i think that in jkII ppl used saber throw to much, but in sp it was helpful to mow down stormtroopers I don't mind having saberthrow in the game, I just don't to become and overused and dominant as it was in JO. Just make it so it has some disadvantages as well.

shukrallah
04-18-2003, 02:41 PM
the saber is an upclose type weapon, thats why we need saber throw to get toenemies who r far away (and like to stay far away) i dont mind it. it could use a little work though.

AV4T4R
04-18-2003, 03:19 PM
Just remember that SABER THROW kill every duel strategy, just u can WAIT for the opponent sabering u and throw the saber when u see the incoming attack!

It's preatty correct that there SHOULDNT be the possibility to throw the saber against a jedi without a reaction from him, so i suggest that if a saber throw hit the BODY it can make damage, but if it take the saber while swinging there should be the possibility that the saber can be thrown away, or if u hit a defensive guard jedi with throw your saber can be knocked down on the ground and u should PULL it or pass over it to recover!

That could stop people spamming with throw and let it become strategic ( and usefull vs mercenaries or npg )

StormHammer
04-18-2003, 04:47 PM
To be fair I think saber throw is a little overused at the moment because some people are fed up with the changes made to the saber combat. I can't even duel online since 1.04 because it takes so long to get through your opponent's defences - and on a laggy connection, you might as well forget it. At least when the game first came out I lasted more than 2 seconds in a saber fight - even won some duels. Of course, this is just IMHO, and I know a lot of people are happy with 1.04. I only say this because I've found myself using saber throw a lot more than I did before - and that's just against the bots... :(

The devs need to totally rebalance the game, as far as I'm concerned, and make every saber strike have equal damage, including throw. By all means include the ability to push a saber away as well...and have it drop to the floor etc.

Prime
04-18-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
To be fair I think saber throw is a little overused at the moment because some people are fed up with the changes made to the saber combat. Not only that, but those out there who are just looking to rack up frags and couldn't care less about SW use it because it is so easy to score a hit and it has almost no drawback. Because of this, it is spam-city.

BloodRiot
04-19-2003, 01:09 AM
In JO's SP system, the sabercould and would be knocked off to the ground. I say it should be included in JA's MP in case Saber throw is re used.

Make so the saber bounces to the ground and stay there until it's pulled back or picked up by it's owner.. in case it falls down a cliff or something like that... it reappears at the users hand after 20-30 secs. That would make a few ppl think twice before abusing saber throw.

Cheers.

Prime
04-19-2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by BloodRiot
In JO's SP system, the sabercould and would be knocked off to the ground. I say it should be included in JA's MP in case Saber throw is re used.

Make so the saber bounces to the ground and stay there until it's pulled back or picked up by it's owner.. in case it falls down a cliff or something like that... it reappears at the users hand after 20-30 secs. That would make a few ppl think twice before abusing saber throw.

Cheers. I like this idea as well.

StormHammer
04-19-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by BloodRiot
Make so the saber bounces to the ground and stay there until it's pulled back or picked up by it's owner.. in case it falls down a cliff or something like that... it reappears at the users hand after 20-30 secs. That would make a few ppl think twice before abusing saber throw.

Cheers.

What an excellent idea. :) There's nothing more annoying than having your saber disappear over a cliff and get stuck somewhere...and having a time limit like that would certainly make some people think twice. :thumbsup:

t3rr0r
04-19-2003, 02:07 PM
also, you should be able to knock the saber down by attacking it, not just by defence... imagine taking a powerful swing and hitting a home run. ;)

Iblis Reborn
04-20-2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by BloodRiot
In JO's SP system, the sabercould and would be knocked off to the ground. I say it should be included in JA's MP in case Saber throw is re used.

Make so the saber bounces to the ground and stay there until it's pulled back or picked up by it's owner.. in case it falls down a cliff or something like that... it reappears at the users hand after 20-30 secs. That would make a few ppl think twice before abusing saber throw.

Cheers.

your getting quoted alot here :)
id like that though

and i always liked being able to turn off my saber mid throw and having it drop to the ground until i pulled it back
it had no real purpose i just liked pulling it back before i turned around and attacked

BloodRiot
04-20-2003, 04:07 AM
Im glad you like the idea. :)

About the saber being knocked off the opponents hands.. well i kinda thought of that before... but it may make things too complicated.

I only see this fair in 2 ways. Since a 100% sure move to disarm your opponent would probably be spammed over and over (nobody wants that right?) :

*Any move can disarm-> When the saber blade touches the opponents hilt, the opponent is disarmed.

Or...

*A special move -> Causes sabers to lock and they both have to fight for their saber. no matter if player 1 started the disarm... any who loses after saber lock get's disarmed.

Note: Regular saber lock doesnt cause disarm. Only at saberlocks started with a disarm attempt causes the loser to be disarmed... the regular saber lock should still be only a knock down lock.

Cheers.

SkinWalker
04-20-2003, 06:54 PM
I've always been a fan of saberthrow and have never really had a problem countering someone that used it a lot.

What I like best about saberthrow is when someone uses lightning or grip, it becomes VERY effective. I've killed many players after being held in the air getting the 'life' choked out of me.

It has to be used strategically in order to be truly effective, however. I like to use it when up close as well as from afar. Often, the other player might not even be aware that I just used throw if I'm close enough. It's also very handy for the player that runs off for health/bacta in the middle of a fight.

Still, I try not to spam it. I certainly don't do the pull/throw move... I find that a bit dishonorable.

I'd like to be able to throw it like a missile with pinpoint aim. That way I can avoid hitting friendlies. Perhaps being able to change the flight path of the saber.

The drawbacks to saber throw are being temporarily unarmed, poor aim (currently), drain on force reserves, and the possibility of losing the saber. Though, I think this last bit is a bug in mods like the admin mod. I laugh everytime I see a player (or myself) running around with an outstreched hand. :p

SkinWalker
04-20-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
there is also the glitch kick when ur being gripped and u can very easily kill THEM when they gk you even from full health

Could you expand on this a bit? Either here or by PM?

Thanks

boinga1
04-20-2003, 07:17 PM
I don't know if this is possible, but if it is they should make it so that when you are running, the saber is thrown faster. For instance, when you're on a server with restricted force powers (ie only jump and saber powers) and some guy with 5 hp has to run off and get more health, you can follow him, but without guns or force speed, you can't catch him. The saber doesn't go far or fast enough to hit them. In real life, if you run and throw something, it goes farther than if you just throw it. Catch my drift?

Prime
04-22-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
I've always been a fan of saberthrow and have never really had a problem countering someone that used it a lot.

What I like best about saberthrow is when someone uses lightning or grip, it becomes VERY effective. I've killed many players after being held in the air getting the 'life' choked out of me. Certainly, countering it isn't a problem, and it is very useful in certain situations. The issue is that it is a better attack than the standard swings.

Originally posted by SkinWalker
I'd like to be able to throw it like a missile with pinpoint aim. That way I can avoid hitting friendlies. Perhaps being able to change the flight path of the saber. I believe that with the appropriate levels in Saber Throw, you can control the flight path. Even more than that, the saber homes in on its target.

Originally posted by SkinWalker
The drawbacks to saber throw are being temporarily unarmed, poor aim (currently), drain on force reserves, and the possibility of losing the saber. Though, I think this last bit is a bug in mods like the admin mod. I laugh everytime I see a player (or myself) running around with an outstreched hand. :p But really, these are very minor drawbacks. You are defenceless for less time than you are when you take a normal swing, especially heavy. I have found aiming to be quite easy with practice, and it will home in if you have enough levels. The drain in force hurts, but you can still do it severl times in quick succession. And really, you almost never lose your saber when you throw it. Certainly not as much as in SP.

I just think there needs to be more disadvantages, to discourage players from spaming it.

SkinWalker
04-22-2003, 01:45 PM
I suppose I could agree with that. I've just been lucky enough not to have been in a game were someone went around throwing very effectively, I suppose. I don't really compare the spamming of throw to, say, pull/kick and push/pull/backstab, etc. I've actually found myself frustrated at players that continually do this, but I've never bee frustrated at a chronic "thrower."

Actually, now that I think of it, a recent game did involve a player that used pull/throw with some effectiveness, but he only did it a few times. Spamming that would have been frustrating.

I do see your point, however.

Shotokan
04-23-2003, 05:40 AM
No saber throw please!!

Prime
04-23-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
I don't really compare the spamming of throw to, say, pull/kick and push/pull/backstab, etc. I've actually found myself frustrated at players that continually do this, but I've never bee frustrated at a chronic "thrower." I agree that it is the lesser of these evils :)

taekwondo joe
04-23-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by griff38
I have not found any info regarding new sabre throws. Are we gonna be stuck with the same single throw like in JO?
I have always felt the animation for it was weak. Not to mention the fact there is only 1 throw. It would be nice if we could at least have a different throw for each stance.

How about an overhand or underhand vertical throw instead of it spinning away horizontally? i liked the saber through, hmmm, what really else can you do, through it like a sprear???? but for the doubel sabers and the staff, saber through might be way cooler

Nemios
04-24-2003, 08:02 AM
I like saber throw but I think it is overpowered as many other force powers. They shoul be useful "tools", not "weapons" to use instead of a real weapon to win a match.

The ideal level for each force power IMHO are:

- Saberthrow: 1 from SP (no homing, no turning)
- Heal: 3, already toned down a lot
- Mind Trick: 2 from SP
- Absorb: 3, otherwise is quite useless
- Protection: don't know, I never use it
- Grip: 2 from SP
- Lightning: 1 from SP
- Drain: 1, healing shoul be minimal for Dark users since Light users have no aggressive Force Powers
- Rage: don't know, I never use it
- Push: 3 from SP
- Pull: 2 from SP (3 is too effective, in SP regular enemies are no match)

An OT question: anyone knows how to change the force powers levels in each SP level without cheat codes (I.E. you decide when each power and each level is gained)? I'd like to finish the game with my set of force powers. And how can you modify NPC force powers?

shock ~ unnamed
04-24-2003, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
Could you expand on this a bit? Either here or by PM?

Thanks

When being gripped if you are unable to push/pull/drain/absorb your way out of it do this:

Put your cross hair right on them.

Hold forward key down.

Press jump rapidly and as fast as humanly possible (just like a saber lock).

When the grip stops if your body contacts theirs you will do between 40-120 damage. The damage all depends on how fast you were pressing jump, the faster you click the more you do.

You have to be standing up when the grip breaks; if you are in the fall animation (after being grip kicked) it won't work.

Iíve lost tons of matches where I snag a guy and start grip kicking him and just as Iím about to land the final kick and win the match, pop he nails me and does 100 damage and wins.

Prime
04-24-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Nemios
I like saber throw but I think it is overpowered as many other force powers. They shoul be useful "tools", not "weapons" to use instead of a real weapon to win a match.

The ideal level for each force power IMHO are:

- Saberthrow: 1 from SP (no homing, no turning)
- Heal: 3, already toned down a lot
- Mind Trick: 2 from SP
- Absorb: 3, otherwise is quite useless
- Protection: don't know, I never use it
- Grip: 2 from SP
- Lightning: 1 from SP
- Drain: 1, healing shoul be minimal for Dark users since Light users have no aggressive Force Powers
- Rage: don't know, I never use it
- Push: 3 from SP
- Pull: 2 from SP (3 is too effective, in SP regular enemies are no match)

An OT question: anyone knows how to change the force powers levels in each SP level without cheat codes (I.E. you decide when each power and each level is gained)? I'd like to finish the game with my set of force powers. And how can you modify NPC force powers? I'm not sure how you would do it without cheats, but you can set each individiual force level to what you want. The codes are:

Force Grip - setForceGrip {0-3}
Force Healing - setForceHeal {0-3}
Force Jump - setForceJump {0-3}
Force Lightning - setForceLightning {0-3}
Force Pull - setForcePull {0-3}
Force Push - setForcePush {0-3}
Force Speed - setForceSpeed {0-3}
Jedi Mind Trick - setMindTrick {0-3}
Lightsaber Defense - setSaberDefense {0-3}
Lightsaber Offense - setSaberOffense {0-3}
Saber Toss - setSaberThrow {0-3}


You can put these in an autoexec.cfg file, and then they can be set automatically. I've done this with my game, and I'm going through the SP game again as a Jedi Master.

I don't know how to edit specific NPC force powers, but you can change their difficulty in the NPC.cfg file.

Hope that helps a bit :)

HertogJan
04-24-2003, 12:41 PM
Yeah setforceall 3 works too if you want to be a master :) And try to do setforceall 4, it's great in the Ladder map :D

With mindtrick level 4, you can control enemies, hehehe. And lvl4 grip lifts multiple enemies up etc... It's a bit overkill :)

Nemios
04-24-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Prime
I'm not sure how you would do it without cheats, but you can set each individiual force level to what you want.

...

You can put these in an autoexec.cfg file, and then they can be set automatically. I've done this with my game, and I'm going through the SP game again as a Jedi Master.

I don't know how to edit specific NPC force powers, but you can change their difficulty in the NPC.cfg file.

Hope that helps a bit :)

Thanks for the help. I already read this solution in another post (from you!) making some research in the forums. But what I'd like to have is a little bit different. I'd like to start as usual without force powers but avoid the increase of a force level above the level I like. In simple words, I'd like to set another max level for each force power. This would require to retouch the force level of NPC too, otherwise the game would be much more difficult. In particular (to re-enter in topic a bit :D ) I hate the homing saber of Desann!

Prime
04-25-2003, 12:04 AM
Unfortunately, I don't know how you would do that. :(