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lassev
04-16-2003, 02:42 AM
I'll post a few screenshots and shortly describe what's it all about. Lighthouse is a single player campaign of three maps, two of which are playable, one being purely cinematic.

The plot in short: Kyle and Jan receive an encoded, cautious text-only message from Mon Mothma, who is very concerned about recent ingeniuos attacks by the Remnant. It is clear the Imperials have either inside information or some highly sophisticated listening post. Of course, it is Kyle's and Jan's job to go to a suspected place, where such a deep space listening post might reside, and secure it at all cost, but they are not allowed to let it be detroyed.

The status of the map pack is about 90% done,
Architectural mapping is 95% done,
ambient sound placement is about 40-50% done,
scripting including cinematics is 75% done,
voice acting 0%...

EDIT:
This project is finished and currently version 1.2 is available for download at PCGameMods, JK2Files, and Massassi. Some (if not all) screenshots show below are outdated.

lassev
04-16-2003, 02:51 AM
Then some screenshots I promised...

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ss0000.jpg
A hall containing some defence installations brought by the Imperials...

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ss0002.jpg
A tall chamber with the well for an express lift. Plenty of room for a long fall...

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ss0001.jpg
The obligatory hangar (with an FPS issue because of too many NPCs present at the same time).

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ss0006.jpg
And this? A small piece of the "highly sophisticated" listening array.

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ss0005.jpg
And here's the dude that should get his own voice. And believe me, you won't see Desann in this campaign. They are just talking about history...

The Truthful Liar
04-16-2003, 03:40 AM
Looks like a very promising map, especially for SP. Good work on the lighting as well. :]

Pnut_Man
04-16-2003, 07:41 AM
Lots of potential here, I like the design and theme.

Btw, what kyle skin is that :p?

master_thomas
04-16-2003, 07:56 AM
Great job! :thumbs1:. Nice architecture.

Whole level a cutscene? Wow. How long? How is that working out for you?

superdude201
04-16-2003, 08:05 AM
Your map looks cool and like pnut which kyle skin is it cause it looks cool too

Kengo
04-16-2003, 08:41 AM
Wowee, looking great! Love the architecture, lighting, and most of all the fact that this is gonna have a plot :) Glad to hear it's so far down the road to completion already, cause I am already looking forward to this one a lot!

lassev
04-16-2003, 09:05 AM
Thank you all for the positive feedback. The lighting is not even throughout the levels, and it's changing quite a bit from area to area, depending on the purpose of use of the room.

Btw, what kyle skin is that
Eh... The kyle skin? It's probably one of the first SP skins you could download from jediknightii.net. The name's darkkyle, unfortunately I cannot recall the author. It has been installed on my system for ages... The original game looks funny, when Kyle looks like a dark jedi and has those dead yes... Especially during the more tender moments with Jan...

Whole level a cutscene? Wow. How long? How is that working out for you?
The cinematic level is not overly large, rather it's just a small house and a courtryard surrounded by stone fence. The story starts there. I like to call the place Lando's cottage:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/shot0002.jpg

LITE Jedi
04-16-2003, 05:12 PM
wow! cool sky box, i really like the origrinality of this map, keep up the good work.

Kengo
04-17-2003, 09:01 AM
That last shot looks a bit dark even for sunset maybe...but that is one beautiful skybox :D

Custom skin for Kyle is a nice touch!

master_thomas
04-17-2003, 08:21 PM
Excellent skybox. I agree with Kengo, though. There should be a little more light.

Infinity Blade
04-18-2003, 01:05 AM
Heh... the Author of the skin? That'd be me. ;) I tried resubmitting it a few times... but it kept on getting removed from JKII.net for lord knows why.....

I still have it, was thinking about maybe updating a model and skin for it... dunno.

Here's a modview shot of it:

http://wat.midco.net/eggnog1/djk-pk3.jpg

I might resubmit it again. We'll see I guess.

And now to be on topic.:

Cool Lookin' Level. :D

------------------
Note: Put a Modview pic up to replace an old WIP shot.

lassev
04-18-2003, 12:58 PM
Custom skin for Kyle is a nice touch!
Sorry to let you down, but I cannot actually include the custom skin for Kyle in the campaign, because the skin's not made by me. It's just a separate skin mod that I installed long ago, thus it's evident in all the screenshots.

Heh... the Author of the skin? That'd be me
Thanks, infinity_blade, for posting this bit of information! This custom Kyle skin of yours is excellent, and so I hardly even remember anymore the original bantha herder looks of Kyle... And I can also promise that all the future screenshots will include this same skin, even if the final campaign cannot...

The place of the last shot may in reality be a little brighter, because the screenshot is truly old, ancient to be exact. It just happened to be on the server, and so I posted it quickly to give some indication of the surroundings of Lando's cottage. I'm out of town for a few days, but later I can give a more recent picture of the place.

Kengo
04-18-2003, 02:06 PM
You know if you ask Infinity he might be happy for you to use the skin in your mod, if you want to use it, as long as you give him full credit for it in the readme. He might not but you never know :)

Infinity Blade
04-18-2003, 02:13 PM
I don't think I'd mind, but odds are the scenario calls for a less... evil Kyle.... ;)

lassev
04-20-2003, 02:35 PM
So, you wouldn't mind, eh? Let's put it official: can I include your custom skin into the campaign with full credits given to you, of course? Your package would be in it's original form, because it's stand-alone, only the readme would be renamed to separate it from the main readme of the maps (altough you would also get your name in there).

And I can also tell you all that the campaign will contain some third party components as a small surprise element in any case...

What comes to the evilness... Well even the original game with its "kill 'em all, take no prisoners" attitude was quite far in the Dark side, in my opinion, so that's not really a problem, is it?

The only drawback will be the final file size that can exceed 20 MB, but who cares anyway nowadays...

Infinity Blade
04-22-2003, 06:38 AM
Well, I've been doing minor touch-ups to it now and then, so perhaps you'd rather include that.

I've been thinking about resubmitting it to JKII.net, AGAIN, and maybe in a month or two I could start a model tweak and some retexturing for it. That's a big 'maybe' though.

Anyway, if you used the minor touch up version, would have the same one that I would eventually resubmit.

It's mostly to take care of some compression artifacts and detail loss due to excessive Jpg compression. I was new to JO/Q3 editing, and resaved it ALOT as a jpg instead of converting it after I was done.

And as far as being evil... well, while I don't completely agree on the SP game having alot of Dark side elements to it, I do feel that it's entirely your choice as this level's creator.

If you feel it's a good way to go, then I'm fine with it. :D

lassev
04-22-2003, 12:17 PM
Well, maybe you are right about the Dark side of the SP. The motives do not ultimately origin from the Dark side. And you have to take into account the role of the game Engine...

But still, it just pleases well my twisted sense of humour to have the dark jedi Kyle. And most of all, dark Kyle looks better than the original, as is made also evident by the feedback above.

So, being as busy as I am (who wouldn't) I cannot give any date for the release of the campaign, but I guess it will take long enough that you can make the little touch-ups you have planned, if not the major ones. Let's be in contact later on, because the dark jedi Kyle is after all easy to include in the packet just before the release. Thanks!

lassev
04-29-2003, 07:54 AM
To make sure nobody thinks I'm dead or something, I'll post a couple of screenshots.

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/bu_shot00.jpg
This is a shot I promised a while ago. It shows the surroundings of the opening cinematics ("Lando's cottage", yet no Landos in these maps, just a work name).

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/lh1_shot00.jpg
More fancy, red lighting, eh? It's a sort of scanner.

The map's still 95% finished, folks. And who knows how long it will be, because most of the time I spent on it goes straight to rebuilding older parts of the maps. Hmm, maybe not in the future; it's about time to seriously think finishing it.

Kengo
04-29-2003, 04:16 PM
Looking great. Sounds like youre close to beta testing stages, I'd love to help ya test this one :)

lassev
04-30-2003, 04:31 AM
Thanks for the offer, Kengo. But one has to remember there's still missing about half of the last, big room or should I say chamber (it's the place where that "sophisticated listening array" is located). It's a bit difficult to map, because the place is not composed of just doors and walls, but rather a variety of different BIG machines, bridges and small elevators, computer terminals, pipes and screens.

And then there are two cinematics missing. And I cannot script them before the map is otherwise finished.

Kengo
04-30-2003, 10:10 AM
Wow, sounds rather Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine (TM) there man, i.e. amazing :D

Well, when you think its ready for testing I'd love to be one of the testers if you want :)

And please finish this level, too many great levels aren't finished because mapers are such perfectionists!

master_thomas
04-30-2003, 09:10 PM
And please finish this level, too many great levels aren't finished because mapers are such perfectionists!

Yes Kengo, how many times did AKPiggot threaten to cancel the map in the last two months ( not perfectionism, but terrible errors)?

I, however, am not a perfectionist. Compared to most mappers, I am LAZY. I don't caulk if it requires clipping, I rarely make detail brushes. I use the hollow command (although, I do adjust the brushes to fit, it's much easier than making each wall, floor, or ceiling manually (Rich has advised against all of these "Everything the player can't see should be caulked", "generally, all brushes not exposed to the void should be made detail", and "never use the hollow command".

The only thing I do follow is I never use CSG subtract. He is right, it is evil. Once, I had a huge staircase and accidentally hit CSG subtract, my massassi pyramid MP level, well, died. It took 5 minutes of subracting (I didn't realize I hit CSG subract so I thought it had crashed, but I left rigfht afterwords, came back, and had and had an error message. I closed it, and my level had 27,102 brushes because of the subtract. One click, and it crashed.)

Looking good, Lassev.

Louis
04-30-2003, 09:41 PM
This map is really looking good! Keep it up and I'm looking forward to it. If you need any beta testers -- sign me up :D

Kengo
04-30-2003, 10:31 PM
Mind you Thomas...you don't want to be too far the other side of perfectionism either. I'll admit I didnt use detail brushes or caulk in my early mapping days, but really they are both utterly central to a good map. Detail brushes will cut your compile times drastically, and if the compile times arent much without using them, then you map definately needs more detail! I use the hollow tool myself, even though I know its wrong...

lassev
05-01-2003, 11:31 AM
Yeah. On my part, I strongly support detail brushing. Absolutely most of the stuff in my maps are detail. My compile times are really short. Of course I could use more brushes for detailing, but then again, I want to release this campaign someday and it's already growing old, and certain deadline called Jedi Academy is closing...

What comes to hollowing and CSG substract, I have used them all the time, from beginning to the end. They are perfect tools (well, not really, but anyway), if you know what you are doing and when you should use them, and most importantly, when you should not use them.

There's little fear of this map being cancelled. Only Force Majeure in the form of a broken hard disk could cause that. And I have perfect trust in my Maxtor case heater.

lassev
05-01-2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Louis
If you need any beta testers -- sign me up :D

Well, I'm truly sorry to let you down. What little beta testing I'm planning for my campaign, it has already been sealed behind closed doors. I can assure you there were no honest competition, only historical reasons.

This has been a long project, because I only learnt to map along the way. I have mapped and remapped until you wouldn't recognize the maps to be the same, should have an opportunity to have a look at the older versions. I textured them anew a couple of times, not to mention changed the lighting.

So, I will, one day, just release the map and wash my hands. It doesn't need to be perfect, but it's the measure of my skills and shall be judged as such, with no lenghty feedback chain of beta testing. This is my personal view of things, and I don't say other people shouldn't beta test their own maps. Yet, I can promise my campaign will have a good integrity and a very low count of errors.

master_thomas
05-01-2003, 08:42 PM
Sorry, I over exaggerated on alot of things; I don't know why. I have two main projects. When I do my rare detail brushing, I do alot of it. Therefore, I get decent compile times. Only a maximum of, like, two faces lack caulk.

I use hollow and merge (why not), but just not subtract (I've had more problems than I posted).

With my mapping style, I have gone through about 30 map files that I just didn't like until I started The Attack on Yavin 3 months ago. I started mapping 4 months ago. That's about one map a day.

lassev
05-08-2003, 08:50 AM
Well, it has been quiet for a while, mainly because of this:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ss_new01.jpg

Now, let me add, before anyone gets any ideas: the level is not finished yet, far from it (still 95%). But Kengo played through the major part of the levels, because such is the state of things, that only one chamber is partly unmapped and a couple of cinematics unscripted, not to mention one big puzzle, but rest of the levels are quite finished. And I haven't still contacted the voice actors Kengo has offered me a few times. Because the lines are not fully finished.

A couple of irrelevant shot (except for Kengo) to brighten the day.
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ss_new04.jpg
Now the doors should be a bit more inviting, and the func_plats are themselves a bit boosted, as well (not shown here).

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ss_new03.jpg
This seems a bit dark here, but in the game, it's not anymore totally pitch-dark, but gives a nice gloomy atmosphere, yet you see now, where you are going.

Kengo
05-08-2003, 12:12 PM
I like it, I lke it a lot :)

People, this level will really be worth the wait, I will say no more ;)

lassev
05-11-2003, 09:07 AM
Despite my best intentions, I haven't still finished the last chamber. My time was spent on adding a totally previously unplanned room to the last map. It's a part of an eastern egg, so to speak, and totally irrelevant to the general plot. It's coupled to a rather funny cinematic (in my opinion), that is as well absolutely optional considering the general plot. Thus it's not automatically played but requires some trying on player's part.

I'm aware of the fact that this kind of thing may eat away some realism, and some people don't like that. This is basically the reason the place is hidden and is NOT compulsory in order to play the level through. Yet, this additional room will be kind of different in architecture compared to the other places in my maps, and thus worth visiting.

master_thomas
05-12-2003, 09:47 AM
Interesting idea.

I like what I hear from Kengo.

lassev
05-26-2003, 10:41 AM
For the enjoyment of all those two people still interested in this level, I'll post one more screenshot. I intended to post no screenshots of the last chamber (besides the array picture already posted), but as most (almost all) of the time I spent on this campaign goes to the last chamber, it's the only indication of progress.

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ssnew05.jpg

So, here it is. One of the many machines. Lighting is temporary right now, as I'm only mapping architecture for the moment. The blue parts are covered with a peacefully pulsating shader. There will also be occasional electric discharges between the towers. Ambient sound will be static electricity.

master_thomas
05-26-2003, 03:41 PM
Looks good, Lassev. It has been two weeks since anything was posted here.

Shadriss
05-27-2003, 01:15 AM
So, ETA is when? I know I havent posted in the past on this project, but as I'm doing SP myself now, I find myself curious about the better projects in progress... and this definately qualifies as one of them, from what I've seen.

lassev
05-27-2003, 04:46 AM
ETA, ETA. Indeed I'm sorry to say this, but I'm afraid the ETA will be closer to the time your ship sails back, Shadriss, than any moment soon. It would be finished sooner, but the last chamber is a bit of a headache. I want it to be as impressive as my skills allow, but it seems right now my imagination is a bigger obstruction. It's hard to design fine looking big machines that would also look like they have some function right where they are.

And then there's still the voice acting. I have actually selected one of Kengo's excellent voice actors, yet I still need to finish the lines and contact Kengo. Obviously I cannot give any estimation of the delay it causes. AK gives a good example that this part can be the last hindrance.

But in the mean time, I will post yet another screenshot. It's essentially the same as one of the earliest shown here, but a bit upgraded following Kengo's advice. I hope you like it.

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ssnew06.jpg

The Truthful Liar
05-27-2003, 02:01 PM
:-O

This map has equal if not better quality to the original JK2 sp maps made.

wedge2211
05-27-2003, 04:02 PM
Do those cylinders just have a "_glow" texture applied??? Please tell me that's temporary...

lassev
05-28-2003, 04:59 AM
They indeed have just a _glow texture. To be honest, and once again I have to remind you all this is my first map ever for any game (and thus I have been given too much praise here), I applied that _glow texture a long time ago, when I was dumb enough to not even realise it's a just the minor part of a shader. Well, I have become a little wiser by now, but I never changed the texture.

I might draw a dark modification of the actual texture and make a decent shader code to use that glow properly. With FPS of 71 I have still some margin to play with. Yet, in the end, it will still be stark contrast between very black and very white.

PS. The most sharp-eyed of you have noticed there are two brushes missing in the last picture...

lassev
05-31-2003, 09:30 AM
Yeah. I changed the _glow texture to a very fast noise pulsating shader. It looks quite good, but FPS dropper from 71 to 35, so I guess I won't be leaving it there. Most probably the rgbGen wave will be removed and just lightmap left in place.

Well, this is but a minor thing in my recent revert to enhance old places and structures in my maps. I have done it before, and actually there's few enough places I wouldn't have ripped to the ground and built anew. Yesterday I did also some major changes to a very old room. Maybe I will post a screenshot later (I'm not finished with it yet).

Unfortunately this all means delays to the release of the map. Well, it'll be that much better.

master_thomas
05-31-2003, 01:17 PM
Hm, Attack on Yavin one took me three months (though, I spent a good amount of time on others (More like 1 and a half month). It turned out mediocre (like all first maps). So far, this map is so good, it can only come to mediocrity with, like, 5 glaring errors.

I don't mind the extra wait. Bring it to its maximum potential.

lassev
06-02-2003, 04:46 AM
I'll post here a screenshot of the latest achitectural modifications I did. The lighting continues my experimental line, so feel free to post any comments. It's kind of green, and has the potential to be ugly, but then, one can also keep in mind that nobody seems to be working in the room right now, probably because of the disturbing noise generated by the generator thing (well, you can barely make out some imperial worker, but he's only temporary and was present during the mapping to help with proportions), so why would the lighting be any more convenient?

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/ssnew07.jpg

There's a very nice puzzle in this room. One illogical, stupid puzzle Kengo criticized after playing the very early beta has been all but removed. The new one required some advanced scripting, and it's very elegant in my opinion. Quite obvious, hopefully, but also smart enough.

wedge2211
06-02-2003, 04:30 PM
Nice work, man, the lighting has a pretty cool effect (why do control rooms always look better under colored lights? :)) Be careful with stretching textures, though.

The EF2 demo had a neat little puzzle, where you actually played a sort of mini-game...probably way beyond JKII, but if someone could figure out how to do that, it could be an interesting way to incorporate puzzles into a SP mission.

Can't wait!

clu
06-03-2003, 06:24 AM
That was an intersting little addition (the EF2 puzzle).

Looks great, Lassev. It's very cool that you are focusing more than a bit of attention on slick puzzles. I look forward to playing.

-clu

lassev
06-04-2003, 01:20 PM
I tried the EF2 demo. Although the game in game did give me some ideas, it certainly would require much research to actually accomplish puzzles so sophisticated in JO. I mean, you couldn't even do exactly that kind of thing, but perhaps one could build some puzzles that would seem to be more complicated than those we saw in the original SP levels.

I guess I won't be building any new puzzles in Project Lighthouse (except the very last one, but that's kind of fixed already), but who knows, if JA will give more possibilities. The scripting should be better, so I believe somebody mentioned. My next project after Lighthouse will anyway most likely be for JA (I even have the plot somewhat planned already...).

Thank you all for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

Louis
06-06-2003, 02:49 PM
Just wanted to report back in to say this map is looking very awesome...can't wait to see it finished!

lassev
06-20-2003, 08:40 AM
It has been more than two weeks, so I thought to let you know the project is still breathing. After doing some rather major enhancement to older parts of the level I'm finally satisfied enough to fully concentrate on finishing the level. Actually, I have done enough mapping on the last chamber to evaluate it to be about 85% to 90% complete architecturally. That makes the whole level about 98% mapped architecturally.

Also the last puzzle is now designed and currently under construction and the custom textures and shaders are ready and waiting, so it really could be a matter of days, before I can announce I have nothing but scripting left.

The scripting shouldn't be underestimated, because the last cinematic will be very long and rather complicated. However, I have proceeded nicely with the sole voice actor I have / need, and I should get the sound clips soon.

I'm afraid I won't be posting screenshots anymore, but I'll keep you up to date otherwise.

Eldritch
06-20-2003, 11:23 AM
Sounds good, lassev. From what Kengo says, it's a real winner. Can't wait to play it.

wedge2211
06-20-2003, 12:34 PM
Sweet.

lassev
06-21-2003, 12:19 PM
It seems there can be no progress without setbacks. After encountering one nagging, albeit slight, problem with JK2Radiant, I decided to give a chance to the much acclaimed GTKRadiant (actually it has been sitting on my hard disk for a long time, unused). Well, it did nothing to solve the problem, but to reward me for my troubles, it did, however, give me one surprise.

I saved my map once in GTK, and went back to JK2. I mapped this puzzle I've been talking about and went to scale down one mammoth sized corridor (this scale issue is related to the plot tightly, so I had to do it). Well, first I noticed one forcefield was missing (func_wall). I checked the situation and noticed all func_walls were missing. Well, since there were just four of them, it was easy to copy them from the back-up. Then I noticed trigger_onces were missing. It was time for a heart attack.

Well, if you knew my map, you would know there used to be about 50 trigger_onces all over the place. I can't imagine how jolly good time I'll have hunting them all down in my back-up to copy them to the GTK ravaged map.

Unless GTKRadiant is the official editor for JA, it will certainly take much reassurance to make me touch that foul program again (no offence at all to those people who are happy with it. I know it's good, but not for me, it seems).

Kengo
06-22-2003, 10:19 PM
This is basically why I'm neverous about switching over to GTK Radiant in mid project. I might consider it when starting a new project, but maps are delicate things and the thought of losing anything at all in the cross over wouldn't be a happy one. I'm not suggesting GTK Radiant isn't a great program and technically superior in several areas. By odd coincidence I nearly lost an entire level's entities a few days ago, and man its a horrible feeling to lose a load of stuff eh? It's like you can see the time you spent on it just vanishing into the void forever. Only worse. Like you said "It seems there can be no progress without setbacks.". Seems like if you get a good run then you'll just get a bigger problem when it arrives...

Well, looking forward to this level more and more :)

master_thomas
06-23-2003, 01:26 AM
The loss of every trigger_once in a level sounds horrible. One problem is that it starts out in MP mapping mode, which can screw up SP-only entities, like waypoints, point_combats, and trigger_onces.

lassev
06-23-2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by master_thomas
The loss of every trigger_once in a level sounds horrible. One problem is that it starts out in MP mapping mode, which can screw up SP-only entities, like waypoints, point_combats, and trigger_onces.

Waypoints? Not also them? Tell me that isn't true! I didn't even check them, because they have been switched off for so long in View menu.

Crom! I copied all trigger_onces back. It wasn't as bad as I had feared, because of this nice option to turn world off. It was quite easy to pick trigger_onces, because of the really nice selection of colors in JK2Radiant 2D window (by far superior to GTK) (trigger_once and _multiple have distinct colors). Well, if I must also copy all waypoints, then I guess that's what I'm going to do.

Otherwise I have been making relatively good progress. I had to learn some new things for the last puzzle, but it should be okay (haven't compiled). In addition I have done already most of the architectural mapping, only little things left.

EDIT: It will be really horrible and nasty and long puzzle, I promise you.

Louis
06-23-2003, 12:38 PM
Sometimes, in GTK, the triggers and somethings will disappear for seemingly no reason, but they are there...but you can only see them in 2D. Not sure why, but...that's how it is.

lassev
06-23-2003, 01:35 PM
As the last chamber is basically one big machine system (although it might not look like it, as I had to cut down the amount of machines for the sake of FPS and my sanity), I though to do it a little more lively by adding a computer voice. Also, it's quite essential considering the fact that the last puzzle will be, well, as I said, long and horrible.

There was in the mapping/levels forum a thread about synthesized voices and a link to an amazing AT&T site. Of course I immediately generated a whole bunch of lines for the computer (really, really essential, and I mean it, the puzzle would be too hard without them).

Bad news is that when I contacted AT&T about the use of sounds produced with this web interface demo (it took them the whole weekend and a little more to respond), they bluntly turned me down. They forbade all use of the sounds except for private home use (not much use for this kind of project). So, I need an alternative source for machine speech.

Kengo
06-23-2003, 07:17 PM
Using Goldwave you can make some Computer sounding voices pretty easily, it even has some kind of built in options allowing for this effect, you can take a human voice and make it completely unrecognisable. I could even use my own voice and have a go for you if you wish, thats how much the original voice can be changed :)

wedge2211
06-23-2003, 09:17 PM
There's also the text-to-speech thingy in Windows XP (Control Panel > Speech), but it's only a male voice, it kinda sucks, and I don't know how best to save it as a wav or mp3.

lassev
06-24-2003, 04:41 AM
Yeah, Microsoft Sam is not my first choice for a computer voice. And besides, the computer voice must be female. Come on! What kind of computer would have a male voice anyway (especially in a game that is played mostly by men). Go and visit this AT&T site.

http://www.research.att.com/projects/tts/demo.html

Let the voice be Crystal, and type in some sensible sentence like (hint, hint) "Fifteen minutes remaining until self-destruction commences." It sounds amazing! I have never heard such a good text-to-speech synthesis. No wonder they don't want people to use it free of charge.

Does anybody know, if you can, in fact, have different voices for this Windows XP speech synthesis? I once tried to search the Microsoft site, but, um, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Kengo
06-24-2003, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by lassev
And besides, the computer voice must be female. Come on! What kind of computer would have a male voice anyway (especially in a game that is played mostly by men). Go and visit this AT&T site.


Curse my manly voice, curse it!

Hmmm, what about HAL from 2001 and his cool Canadien voice? Its amazingly tricky to find good female voice actors. If only Eldritch was a woman. :eek:

lassev
06-24-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Kengo
Hmmm, what about HAL from 2001 and his cool Canadien voice? Its amazingly tricky to find good female voice actors. If only Eldritch was a woman. :eek:

Yes, HAL, that's true. But we must also remember that HAL was a very intelligent central character in the movie, so he had to be male. Eh, well, let's say my computer should sound sympathetic, and inspiring, when it tells you are going to be killed in a big explosion in a very short time. Aye, it's a good computer, because actually it gives the player good advice to solve the puzzle. An evil computer would go along nicely with male voice, but not this kind of neutral one.

I certainly didn't foresee this problem. Actually, I only came up with the idea after visiting the AT&T pages. Yet now I have built the last puzzle to require a computer voice (even some scripts are ready).

Are you sure Eldritch is not female? Perhaps he... Er... She is? Wow, I never thought of that.

Eldritch
06-24-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by lassev
Are you sure Eldritch is not female? Perhaps he... Er... She is? Wow, I never thought of that.
Quite sure. :indif:

However, I do have some interesting .wav editing software on my computer. Catch me sometime on MSN, maybe I can work something out.

lassev
07-02-2003, 12:47 PM
Now that everybody's attention is (deservedly) on Clu's Colosseum, I can sneak in and give my petty progress report.

Nothing amazing to report really. The files for voice acting (this includes also the computer voice) should be coming my way any day, so it's almost wrapped up. I constructed last of the big machines in the chamber, and actually the chamber is architecturally 100% complete now. I'll just add one corridor out of it (cloning mostly, one hour of work), and the whole, bloody level is ready architecturally.

This means, finally, that there's nothing more than scripting and some cameras and waypoints to add. And as I'm no stranger to ICARUS, I don't except it to take forever (it might, though. ICARUS certainly has the ability to surprise). I'll post back, when the scripting is finished.

Lord Glorfindel
07-02-2003, 02:44 PM
Great news!!! So would you say in about a month the entire level will be in completion stages?

clu
07-02-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by lassev
Now that everybody's attention is (deservedly) on Clu's Colosseum

You're a classy customer, Lassev. Thanks for the props. :cheers:

Personally, I can't wait to play Project Lighthouse. Psyched to hear you're approaching the finish line.

-clu

Business_Eskimo
07-02-2003, 03:01 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by lassev
Are you sure Eldritch is not female? Perhaps he... Er... She is? Wow, I never thought of that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:eyeraise: *shivers*



Glad to hear you're almost done with this. It looks quite good.

Eldritch
07-02-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by lassev
Nothing amazing to report really. The files for voice acting (this includes also the computer voice) should be coming my way any day, so it's almost wrapped up.

You should check your email for the computer voice. It's just sitting there, waiting...

:D

lassev
07-03-2003, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by Lord Glorfindel
Great news!!! So would you say in about a month the entire level will be in completion stages?

I hope it's well finished in a month, with beta testing and all. However, the process will probably be disrupted by my summer vacation after a couple of weeks. I'm going to be out of town for more than two weeks, in places where there's no computers at my disposal (well, almost none). I can read these forums with an old computer and a modem connection, but that's all.

I really hope I'll be able to send the beta to the testers before the vacation. We'll see.

lassev
07-04-2003, 04:56 AM
My last compile before last evening was a month old... You can imagine the amount of changes I had made since that. Although one should never say this about his own map, and I'm cursed to say this aloud, still I'm quite satisfied with the last chamber architecture (sorry, absolutely no screenshots will be coming this way).

and has been working on a set piece section at the end which promises to be extraordinary.

This is what Kengo said in his Mapping Monthly, and I just think the chamber might live up to expectations. It's a big hall, not boxy but vast otherwise, yet whatever direction you look at, there's grand machines everywhere, many of them moving at some point or having action otherwise with shaders and/or effects. The FPS is currently hovering at about 40-50 with my 1000MHz Athlon and GeForce4200 with no NPCs (there won't generally be any, anyway).

The long and tortuous last puzzle almost worked (well, it's comlicated to script), and has some great moments.

Enough of self-satisfied mumble. I leave you all waiting for undetermined time to forget this level, until I bring it up once again (the thread, anyway ;) )

clu
07-04-2003, 05:20 PM
Hey sounds cool. So I'm actually still relatively ignorant of the level (didn't read every single post), so this is just to satisfy my own curiosity:

1) When you say not many NPCs, does that mean that it is primarily the puzzles and minimal combat?

2) If there is a bit of combat, what would you say the majority of it would be (saber battles, duck-and-cover shootouts, stealth, etc.)?

3) Is Jan always at your side? Talking? Shooting? Or is it more of a a solo-type adventure?

Anyway, if you prefer not to reveal too much, that's OK too. Just curious.

-clu

lassev
07-05-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by clu
1) When you say not many NPCs, does that mean that it is primarily the puzzles and minimal combat?
Um, I was just talking about the last chamber. There's not really any NPCs to reckon with (expect shortly in a cinematic). Otherwise the level contains enough NPCs to keep you occupied.

2) If there is a bit of combat, what would you say the majority of it would be (saber battles, duck-and-cover shootouts, stealth, etc.)?
There's plenty of weapons at hand, so it's how you prefer, really. Most certainly one could play almost (but not entirely) the whole level using only the saber. Most certainly one would die very fast by not using the saber...

3) Is Jan always at your side? Talking? Shooting? Or is it more of a a solo-type adventure?
Jan will only appear in cinematics. The level design is such that a friendly NPC couldn't survive or follow the player to any great extent. It's a real jedi mission...

Kengo
07-05-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by lassev
Um, I was just talking about the last chamber. There's not really any NPCs to reckon with (expect shortly in a cinematic). Otherwise the level contains enough NPCs to keep you occupied.

There's plenty of weapons at hand, so it's how you prefer, really. Most certainly one could play almost (but not entirely) the whole level using only the saber. Most certainly one would die very fast by not using the saber...


Even with my elite Jedi skills ;) , I found it fairly challenging. Lassev really knows how to suddenly pile well placed enemies on you at just the right times!

lassev
07-12-2003, 08:40 AM
Just a short update. I have now all the voice files, including the clips for the "sole voice actor" (which isn't actually true anymore). While waiting for the voice files for the baddie, I directed some cinematics to the very, very end of the level, the level ending, that is. They are pretty much done now. The cinematic missign still is a rather lenghty one right before the nasty puzzle I have been talking about. The puzzle itself, with the short cinematics included, is working perfectly and mercilessly. It was probably the most sophisticated thing I have done this far with Radiant and ICARUS.

If the last unmade cinematic builds fine and don't resist too much, I will make a beta available for the selected beta testers the coming week :)

Status report:
Architectural mapping: 100%
Voice acting: 100%
Cinematics: 85%
Ambient sound: 95%

Eldritch
07-12-2003, 12:50 PM
Ooh, the excitement! :rubs hands together in anticipation: :D

clu
07-13-2003, 06:26 AM
The anticipation is killing me too. :D

Sounds like you've reached black-belt status with ICARUS after that last puzzle. Can't wait to play!

-clu

lassev
07-13-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by clu
The anticipation is killing me too. :D

Sounds like you've reached black-belt status with ICARUS after that last puzzle. Can't wait to play!

-clu

Well, you know, Clu, I was quite impressed with your scripts, when I studied them. You are certainly not any green belt level scripter yourself! Actually, by playing the game itself, you don't notice the effects of the scripts in such a straight forward way, as you know very well yourself, of course.

Still, I do have a few elegant scripts, in my own opinion. I did not think to include the .txts in the .pk3, but if you want to have a look at them, I can certainly reconsider (concerning the beta. The final level won't have 'em. They don't contain anything new compared to the original game, and without the .map they wouldn't help anyone so much anyway). If nothing else, you can always wonder about some Finnish script names and entity names :)

lassev
07-14-2003, 04:39 AM
Well, so much for good news. Now I encountered one, whose relatives have undoubtly collapsed otherwise perfect projects. And I think it might be called either my own ignorance or, by another name, entity limit. At least, that's the only solution I can come up with, even if the symptoms are not exactly what I would have expected. That is, the symptoms look like this:

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~lvaarisk/errorscr.jpg

Now, I have something like 1090 entities, in total. If the brush entity limit for SP is 512 (who knows the total entity limit (2048 or what), there's a chance my error arises from that source. Although, I cannot be certain.

This error comes up every now and then, most often, when I try to use some force power. As you can see, it's sound related, and I have never seen it before, only very lately with a couple of my latest compiles.

So, I'm sorry to say this, but if this error doesn't leave me alone, that is, if nobody can explain it, Project Lighthouse is sure to be delayed, if not BURIED entirely. Right now, it's totally unplayable, and I cannot finish it, because I can't test it.

Mercenary
07-14-2003, 06:53 AM
I don't think you hit the entity limit, one of my maps has 2175. Guessing from the error, it looks like a string problem, I remember getting an error because I made a name too long in Radiant. Maybe you have too many sound sources running at the same time. I don't know man.

lassev
07-14-2003, 12:43 PM
Thanks to good, old Leslie I found a reason for the error. Not a good solution, but at least a reason (if you want to know it, visit the thread on mapping / levels). So, basically my solution would be to cut down number of things in my map, including sound files, models, effects and such. Well, I'm quite taken aback because of that, because I never certainly and absolutely thought my map to have anything so much that it would overflow this kind of limits.

To my most trustworthy would-be beta testers I must now bring the bad news: I'm really surprised if I can finish this level to beta testing stage before my vacation, which is now quite near. I might have without this problem. With this? No way.

I'm, partly because of what I told above, deeply opposed to cutting down anything in Lighthouse_2, to prevent it from becoming some lousy, colorless map. This means, and I see few alternatives, that the will be Lighthouse_3. In effect, I have to split Lighthouse_2. I already know how to do it, and even if it means HUGE work and will result in some redundancy (Lighthouse_2 and Lighthouse_3 will share some common parts), it's the only way to go.

:( Sorry, but I cannot anymore promise Project Lighthouse beta anytime soon.

clu
07-14-2003, 12:43 PM
I'll keep my eyes open for a solution.

BTW, if I may be so bold... don't ever say the word buried when talking about this excellent project! (it scares me). Seriously, Lassev, I'm sure there have been greater bugs squashed in the world of mapping.

Post the same screenie over at Massasi and all the other Radiant-type forums (and on that RichDiesel thread...everyone seems to be subscribed to that one). Maybe someone's encountered it before.

-clu

<EDIT>
The only reference I could find to that error stated that the G_FindConfigstringIndex function is used by the G_ModelIndex and G_SoundIndex functions. That "G_SoundIndex function" sounds like a promising lead since it seems to have something to do with that saber sound. Anyway, maybe make a post over at the Quake3World forums. That's where I found this thread (http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005563.html)
</EDIT>

Kengo
07-14-2003, 01:15 PM
If you could get a hold of Ant, he'd be your best bet I guess. Still, he reduced things out of neccesity, an absolute last ditch option, I agree with you, cutting the level up intop two parts is far, far better. Have you decided where to cut it? If not, shall I play the old beta and look for bits that might work easiest (I imagine a fair bit has changed from that version but still...)?

lassev
07-15-2003, 04:24 AM
Update with the too many things to load problem.

Lighthouse_2 has now been split. It resulted in some redundance, with the hangar being included in both Lighthouse_2 and Lighthouse_3. However, this concerns only the skeleton of the hangar. A huge amount of entities were removed in Lighthouse_3 hangar, because those entities were only relevant to Lighthouse_2.

I haven't compiled Lighthouse_2, but it should basically be OK. Lighthouse_3 didn't even host any leaks, of which I'm quite surprised. The splitting wasn't as bad as I had thought: by drawing huge boxes that spread over large parts of the map, then selecting select inside from the menus, and hitting backspace I removed large portions with little trouble.

The good news is that the beginning of the last cinematic (which I had scripted before this annoying problem) worked with no big problems. Some smoothening here and there and about half of the last cinematic is done. I would be reckless to say I can finish the beta in the few evenings I have left, but who knows? Maybe I will be able to give you a barely working beta :)

Kengo
07-15-2003, 07:52 AM
Glad to hear you got through this problem man, it sure is annoying to hit a problem you never anticipated at all eh! How long is your vacation again? :)

lassev
07-15-2003, 08:47 AM
Glad to hear you got through this problem man, it sure is annoying to hit a problem you never anticipated at all eh! How long is your vacation again?

It sure is annoying. The whole mapping / scripting business seems to follow the path: for every two meters forward, you slip one meter back. Well, I'm fairly confident that by merging some sound files into one bigger file (I have this possibility with a bunch of files) I should be able to stay away from the loading limit, whatever it might be.

My vacation will stretch about two weeks, maybe a little more. It was my plan to let you have that time to play around with the beta, and then after my holiday I would make the few changes I suppose there has to be - and let Eldritch have the map at PCGameMods. And let Leslie have the map for Review.

We will see how it turns out.

Eldritch
07-15-2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by lassev
It was my plan to let you have that time to play around with the beta, and then after my holiday I would make the few changes I suppose there has to be - and let Eldritch have the map at PCGameMods. And let Leslie have the map for Review.
*cackles devilishly* Muahahhaaha, we don't think we'll be letting that one out for public release, do we precious? We'll keep it to ourselves, yes...

*cough*

I mean, i'll post it right away. :D

Seriously though, I hope it gets resolved before your vacation. If not, have fun and finish it off when you get back. :)

clu
07-16-2003, 01:09 AM
Have a good vacation, it sounds like it's well deserved.

-clu

lassev
07-18-2003, 05:50 AM
Well. The next couple of weeks are going to be quite quiet. I'll make Lighthouse available for download to some trustworthy beta testers. Despite my best efforts in a limited time, the beta is not quite as finished as I would have liked it to be. Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing interesting things from the testers, once they get into business.

Then, after a few weeks, this level will be published. So, basically, this level is finished except for some small and minor things. It has been a long road, but hopefully worth it.

wedge2211
07-18-2003, 01:00 PM
...and there was much rejoicing

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Eldritch
07-19-2003, 12:45 PM
Just finished the download. :)

I guess I can take a break from playing Knights of the Old Republic long enough to try this out. :D

lassev
07-21-2003, 12:27 PM
So far I have been informed there are a lot of errors to be found in the beta. So, keep your heads cool. I can't say I wouldn't have expected some errors to be found, but now it seems there are some totally new errors also.

Kengo
07-22-2003, 07:40 AM
Lassev, I appologise for the delays on my part, I am desperately trying to finish and release Occupation 2 before I go mad, I assure you as soon as that is done my full attention will move to the beta and I wil get a report to you before you return man, sorry :o

lassev
07-23-2003, 12:19 PM
No need for apologies, Kengo. Rather, I should express my apologies, because the beta seems to be in far worse condition than I even feared. It may well be, that it is quite unplayable at certain points. If you encounter so bad difficulties as Clu did with the beta, I can only suggest that you will completely abandon testing it, until I can (after my holiday) get some better version for you all beta testers to download.

It shouldn't take long for me to build a better beta, when I get home (getting home will take some time, though).

clu
07-23-2003, 12:27 PM
Lassev, I actually only had that one error, so not a big deal in my eyes.

I have only gone through the first level, but just for the record, this is one of the best and most well designed SP levels I have personally played. Very immersive, fun and well thought-out. I'll post more once I have gone through the whole thing.

Well done!

-clu

Kengo
07-23-2003, 10:46 PM
I felt the first beta was by a mile one of the best, most innovative, varied and high quality maps I'd played, I am sure the second beta will be an improvement on that, so I wouldn't be too hard on yourself Lassev man! :) Occupation 2 should be done today or tommorow, and after that I will get to work on the beta report, you worked extremely hard to get it to us before you went on holiday, I feel indebted to test it before you get back because of this.

lassev
08-05-2003, 06:18 AM
Now I'm more or less back at business. I have received Kengo's excellent beta report, and I'm going to implement the changes he suggested. They concerned mainly lighting (it seems my brightness and gamma settings are different from those of everybody else). Well, I guess I must (again) boost the lighting up. There was also an issue of models not showing in the game. They were just ordinary models of the original game, so it's a bit puzzling, although it was a problem I can say I was afraid of hearing about, because I had seen it with my own eyes on the computer of one friend of mine.

Well, those were the main issues. After reading Kengo's beta report I must comment here (or remind) that this level will contain some puzzles that are perhaps even harder than the ones the original game included. That is the nature of this level. There is some combat to be found, quite enough actually, but just swinging your saber won't get you very far in Lighthouse. However, there will be a walk-through included in the final release (most probably written by the famous author Kengo).

I still don't know what's Clu's JO, because he gets the error previously reperted that Kengo didn't report on the other hand. Eldritch has not sent me a report either - he must be awfully busy moving around, but I'm positive I'll get it one day.

clu
08-05-2003, 05:50 PM
Hey Lassev, just sent you an email. I'll have my report to you by tomorrow evening.

-clu

Eldritch
08-05-2003, 09:38 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting for my response, lassev.

I haven't had a computer that'll run JO since I started moving a few weeks ago... and I won't have one that can for another 2 weeks or so. :(

I did have a chance to play a couple of minutes of it, but I don't think it'd add much. Still, i'm sure it's great.

lassev
08-06-2003, 05:53 AM
Ah, Eldritch, that's terrible news! I was truly looking forward to get a report from such an august person as you are. I'm not saying two weeks in the future would be too late, but... um... I was kind of hoping to release Lighthouse by that time. Well, we'll see what happens.

Still, the whole thing with missing .md3s is solved. It's a strange problem, though. Strange and strangely logical. To be exact, the whole story is here:

When you install JK2Editing tools 2 you will get in your models/map_objects folder a bunch (big one, too) of models used in the original game. They aren't there, if you don't install the editing tools. To be precise, the textures of the models are there, but the models themselves aren't. Why this happens is easy to explain. Raven had all these "missing" models as misc_models. They are turned into map triangles in the compile. After that you only need the texture, not the model itself. So, to save some space, Raven dropped those models out.

I, on the other hand, had used them as misc_model_breakables that are not turned into triangles. So, they were missing on computers not having editing tools 2 (don't ask me why Kengo, the great mapper, didn't have Editing tools installed, but I'm anyway happy he didn't, otherwise I would never have learned of this problem). So, I solved the issue same way as Raven did: by having all those models as misc_models.

wedge2211
08-06-2003, 01:30 PM
Could you generate the same effect as a misc_model_breakable by making an invisible func_breakable and targeting a misc_model to it? Since you can target misc_models at func_rotatings, _trains, _doors, _plats, etc, to make the model "part" of the entity...

Kengo
08-06-2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by lassev
(don't ask me why Kengo, the great mapper, didn't have Editing tools installed, but I'm anyway happy he didn't, otherwise I would never have learned of this problem)

Because I'm a moron :) Sorry about that...Still, thanks all the same man, you're too kind :D Do you want me to begin with the walkthrough, cause you know flattery will REALLY get me moving!

clu
08-07-2003, 01:11 AM
Got through the campaign without hitting that error. :D Beta report currently in progress...please standby.

-clu

(awesome levels Mr. Lassev. Very slick and very, very fun!)

lassev
08-07-2003, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by Kengo
Because I'm a moron :) Sorry about that...Still, thanks all the same man, you're too kind :D Do you want me to begin with the walkthrough, cause you know flattery will REALLY get me moving!

Ah, come on, Kengo. I left you the perfect excuse to just, coolly, state: "I didn't have Editing tools installed because I wanted to test my own level on a non-contaminated, clean computer without additional models that most non-mapper players won't anyway have."

About the breakables. I didn't really need them to be breakables, but thanks anyway, Wedge, for the suggestion. I'm just a lazy fool, who didn't want to clip ordinary misc_models and thus made them invincible misc_model_breakables that are auto-clipped... Well, I got what I deserved. Now they are misc_models and work great even without Editing tools.

I got a superb beta report from Clu. I believe he erred and thought I was also making a graduation work. It was so good, professional and formal beta report that I was amazed there wasn't a final grade attached to the end :)

Kengo, I'll send you email later about the walk-through. You don't need that much help, but perhaps some little note.

Thank you all for the invaluable feedback I have got. It's much more than I feel I deserved. This campaign will soon be finished, and it's partly because of your efforts to help me out with it.

clu
08-07-2003, 04:17 PM
I don't want to over-hype this, but I have to say that after playing this campaign all the way through, it is one of the most polished and fun JO levels I have played. It seems like it was developed by Raven, but it actually surpasses the shipped JO game in certain areas (I know, I promised not to hype, but I can't help it).

Architecture and layout is pretty jaw-dropping in my eyes, and it is all lit beautifully. Combat and story pacing are well balanced and highlighted by some very clever puzzles.

Well done, Lassev, and thanks again for letting me take a run-through. :D

-clu

Kengo
08-08-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by clu
I don't want to over-hype this, but I have to say that after playing this campaign all the way through, it is one of the most polished and fun JO levels I have played. It seems like it was developed by Raven, but it actually surpasses the shipped JO game in certain areas (I know, I promised not to hype, but I can't help it).

Architecture and layout is pretty jaw-dropping in my eyes, and it is all lit beautifully. Combat and story pacing are well balanced and highlighted by some very clever puzzles.


My complete agreement! This level has all you could want - excellent level design, varied and enjoyable gameplay, a good storyline, great cutscenes and a polished feel. This level is something special!

lassev
08-12-2003, 06:04 AM
I imagine this post will be one of the very last, before this campaign is released. I have made all the corrections Kengo suggested (although I only made one of puzzles only just a little bit easier). I also implemented some things Clu suggested, but his report being so extensive I cannot make all the changes (my ambition doesn't go that high, of which I'm eternally grateful).

That being said I can also tell now officially that Project Lighthouse is 100% complete and as finished as it's likely to be, when you (hopefully) download it at PCGameMods. However, as PCGameMods seems to be in some kind of a halted state, there isn't a reason to try to submit it right now. Perhaps Eldritch will one day tell what's going on, or if this is related to his missing computer (the fact that also prevents him from testing Project Lighthouse).

Thanks, Kengo and Clu, for over-hyping this level :) This level surpasses the original Raven levels in the difficulty of puzzles, hardly in anything else.

Eldritch
08-12-2003, 11:32 AM
Glad to hear it's done. :)

Here's the status on PCGM: the lack of files is partly due to my computer, but I did train some people to help me upload files while I couldn't. However, Sergio has asked for no more file postings until PCGM 2.0, the brand new version of the site, is finished. It really looks good and will simplify some tasks for people that come to the site, like submitting files (and even screenshots).

Sorry for the delay. :o

Kengo
08-12-2003, 12:44 PM
Great news Lassev :)

Please just give me today to finish the walkthrough, I've just got the first full level done (needs to be worked on to improve it, but I've got everything the player has to do laid down). I'll be finished by the end of the day.

El, great to hear about PCGM 2.0, any idea how long till it is finished man?

clu
08-12-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by lassev
This level surpasses the original Raven levels in the difficulty of puzzles, hardly in anything else. OK, new rule: no more modesty allowed! :D

Everyone will judge for themselves, but I'll call Lighthouse what it is: an excellent campaign! Congrats on finishing, Lassev. I can't wait to play the final version.

Did you post it to Massassi and JK2files as well?

-clu

Eldritch
08-12-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Kengo
El, great to hear about PCGM 2.0, any idea how long till it is finished man?
Shouldn't be too much longer. Serg is working pretty hard on it.

Shotokan
08-13-2003, 12:16 AM
WOOHOO! Way to go lassev! Can't wait to play this dude.

wedge2211
08-13-2003, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by clu
I don't want to over-hype this, but I have to say that after playing this campaign all the way through, it is one of the most polished and fun JO levels I have played. It seems like it was developed by Raven, but it actually surpasses the shipped JO game in certain areas (I know, I promised not to hype, but I can't help it).

Hey, at least the hype is coming as the level is announced complete, instead of way at the early stages.

Lassev, you're gonna let us know as soon as massassi or jk2files or jkii.net or pcgm post this, right? Right??

lassev
08-13-2003, 06:04 AM
Um. I just received Kengo's walk-through. Eh, even its existence will give a hint that this campaign is not of the run-through swinging you saber -type.

However, some things Kengo has hinted about along the way have made me, if somewhat slowly, think that the last puzzle of Project Lighthouse might be harder than it should be. From the point of an average player (and that's the most important player) it might even pose such a bother that he might consider just exiting the game never finishing the level! And that's shocking news, my friends! That's the Worst Case Scenario.

Clu, however, solved the puzzle without a word, but he was so duty-bound with the beta report that I cannot be certain if he made it out of necessity, not out of fun.

Man, this was unforeseen to me! I can basically make the last puzzle far easier just be remaking some textures. The puzzle will, perhaps, go very lame with that, but even that is better than the alternative.

Well. Now I have two alternatives: to leave it and live with it, or make it easier. What do you say, Wedge and Shotokan, if I bundle the newest version and let you play it through to see, if the last puzzle can be solved? I would not need beta reports, just this one bit of important information. You could have the level tomorrow.

Leslie Judge
08-13-2003, 10:26 AM
Without knowing anything about the level I say keep it as is. You made it for the community, yes but you made it for yourself too. At least that's what I think. ;)

Kengo
08-13-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by lassev
From the point of an average player (and that's the most important player) it might even pose such a bother that he might consider just exiting the game never finishing the level! And that's shocking news, my friends! That's the Worst Case Scenario.

Clu, however, solved the puzzle without a word, but he was so duty-bound with the beta report that I cannot be certain if he made it out of necessity, not out of fun.


And that my friend is because Clu is a clever guy, and I'm a below-average gamer! I just emailed you, I don't think you should tone it down personally, I think if you just include a small picture of the final code in the walkthrough, then if people are unable to do it, they can get to the end. That to me is better than toning it down for everyone like me...

lassev
08-13-2003, 01:12 PM
Come, on, Kengo! You are hardly below-average player. Below-average would never make his own levels for any game.

The problem is not that the puzzle in itself would be so hard. The problem is that solving it will take some serious thinking. It's like some of the IQ tests you have seen. Not a very hard one, although made harder by the fact that of 6 figures 2 is missing. You can still solve it, I know, but it's not as easy as just randomly choosing some figures of the alternatives and voila!

And you can't, Kengo, suggest me to keep it, if you didn't like solving it. How could I know, if Clu is the only person in the world who will play my level through because of one puzzle?

I might put this level in its current form available for Wedge and Shotokan - promise is a promise, but still I think I will scale down the difficulty somehow. Most likely I will just keep the puzzle but make the figures easier and the right alternative more obvious.

Of course I could also use the difficulty settings to make the Padawan puzzle easy and Jedi puzzle the one that is in use now. I must study the issue. It might pay off, if it's easy to implement.

Kengo
08-13-2003, 01:26 PM
I have just submitted the second version of the walkthrough Lassev. Personally, my feelings are that making the puzzle hard is good for several reasons. Firstly, it is fitting for the climactic end puzzle to be the hardest. Secondly, making it hard makes it more challenging, more worthwhile. Thirdly, I never think any level should be set for the lowest common denominator. If you have a walkthrough with the answer in if you want it (as I have added) and can't solve the problem, then you are set! I am sorry I didn't include it in the first version, this was a mistake.

So I suggest you keep it as it is, but its your level and in the end down to you!

*Kengo lights a firework display. It goes into the air and the words "Good luck Lassev!" light up.*

"Funny, it was supposed to say 'Buy one review at JK2Review, get two free.' Hmmm.........."

clu
08-13-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by lassev
Clu, however, solved the puzzle without a word, but he was so duty-bound with the beta report that I cannot be certain if he made it out of necessity, not out of fun. I am not a clever guy, (Lassev, you of all people should know that by now :D) and I thought the final puzzle was quite fun and rewarding (not a pain). My vote is to leave it in.

I had to take a step back from the game to have a think about it, but I thought it was one of the better puzzles since it fit in so well with the surroundings and circumstances of why you were trying to solve it.

Regardless of your decision, I'm sure it will be just as fun for any gamer, average or otherwise. Again, awesome work and congrats.

-clu

wedge2211
08-13-2003, 05:31 PM
Hey man, I'd be happy to take a look at it for you...but I really don't think you should sweat it that much. If there's a good brain teaser in there, it'll make for a nice change of pace, and if the plot is a good one, it'll keep players hooked and plugging away till they solve the thing and get the great climactic reward at the end, which is the best kind of puzzle. If you only have to tweak some textures (I'm guessing with text or color-codes or seomthing), is there a way to find a "happy medium?" Supply half the solution in the "easy" way, and half of it in the "hard" way, so that you can get players started, but still make them think? Or, the idea about changing the difficulty of the puzzle with the difficulty setting of the game is a good one, and allows you to cater to the audience more. It's totally up to you.

lassev
08-14-2003, 06:14 AM
All right. This is what happened: I made the puzzle a little bit easier. Now even other people than Clu should be able to solve it. It's still a puzzle, all right, but not so hard that it would annoy anybody enough to leave the game.

I encountered a couple of level flow terminating bugs (no idea what they were, and they didn't reappear, when I tweaked some scripts and played the level again). Yet, that's something that needs to be confirmed before the release of the level.

Otherwise everything should now be ready for some serious action, so to speak.

And Wedge, Clu might not agree on the "climactic reward", but you'll see... Oh, you will see...

Shotokan
08-14-2003, 07:56 PM
Ok lassev. I've played through some of the level and all I can say is... IT ROCKS! Dude I loved the way you recycled Kyle's and Jan's voices. Very well done. Also the architecture, enemy placement, and overall map was done very well. I noticed some inproper grammar in the beginning scroll, but it doesn't really matter. I haven't noticed any bugs so far (I've only been able to play in the beginning cause my computer is having problems) and if there are, it didn't detract from the playing experience.

Hehe I almost died in the first room, because I didn't see the third turret. But it was good the droid didn't fire much...

Good work lassev!

P.S. The new Kyle skin is cool :D

lassev
08-15-2003, 05:36 AM
Originally posted by Shotokan
Ok lassev. I've played through some of the level and all I can say is... IT ROCKS! Dude I loved the way you recycled Kyle's and Jan's voices. Very well done.
It's a good thing Kyle was never such an intelligent fellow. You'll see later the painful limits of the recycling of old sound files.

I noticed some inproper grammar in the beginning scroll, but it doesn't really matter.
Ah, well, I'm somewhat aware of them, but it was a huge bother to make the .tga in the first place without such programs as Adobe Illustrator. I guess I must go through that work again and see what can be done to save myself from humiliation. Hmm, perhaps PSP 8 has some new options. I must check it out.

P.S. The new Kyle skin is cool :D
I can only offer my sincerest thanks to Infinity_Blade for allowing me to use the skin. I doubt I could have released this level with the bantha herder look.

Go and play the level through. I'm eager to hear, if you encountered any big bugs. I saw one just last evening, although it didn't reappear and I've no idea of the cause.

wedge2211
08-15-2003, 12:59 PM
I got up to midway through Lighthouse_2 last night. Very good job overall, lassev. My comments thus far:

<snip>

I'll be away this weekend, but I'll probably have more comments for you early next week.

lassev
08-15-2003, 01:50 PM
Thanks for the comments, Wedge. I appreciate your feedback very much.

. On the "top" floor of Lighthouse_1, there is a control room lit in green and a control room with a forcefield blocking two officers. The beams in the corridor outside both these rooms continue right in front of the doors, and when you look out to the corridor from inside one of those control rooms, you can see the caulked inside of those beams!
This is one of those errors that you can see about a hudred times and still you never remember to correct it. Perhaps I now will. Hopefully.

Otherwise, as this was an unpublished work, I would ask you not to post here comments about puzzles, or routes to take when playing, or that kind of stuff. It may eat away the fun of somebody, who hasn't yet played this campaign.

You gotta remember this is a single player level, and it has no other value than surprises. But thanks anyway. I will most likely do something to those things you pointed out. Any further comments you can send me as private messages or by email (my email address is in the readme).

wedge2211
08-15-2003, 01:55 PM
Oh, okay, whoops. I'll just edit that stuff out before anybody sees it... ;)

lassev
08-16-2003, 02:14 PM
The nasty old error G_FindConfigstringIndex made a surprising come-back just last evening. I assume it to be a direct result of the changes (additions) I made when following suggestions from Clu and, more recently, Wedge. Just a few new textures and the last straw to break the camel's back was there. As I don't want to remove those textures, I'm either forced to remove some other (the most likely way to proceed) or perhaps remove the Easter Egg - a deed that would certainly solve this problem once and for all. However, the latter is hardly my prefered solution given how much time I spent on the Easter Egg in the first place.

Yeah, I expect to release this level next week, and there's nothing in sight that might prevent it from happening. I'm all too happy to get rid of it.

Kengo
08-16-2003, 03:45 PM
Beta report sent. Sounds like you've reached that stage where you just want it to be finished so you can finally let go! I certainly reached that stage with Occupation 2, I imagine most people who spend a long time on a project of any kind do, and man yours must be one of the most worked upon projects for JO. I shows, this level basically rules :)

Louis
08-18-2003, 03:23 AM
Hey I can't wait to play this lassev, and about your intro scroll, just send me to text if you want to and I will create an intro for you with the *real* Star Wars text and what not, plus save you a little time...just take a look at the intro in Occupation 2, that's my work.

lassev
08-18-2003, 07:34 AM
Thanks for the offer Louis, but I think the intro scroll should be quite OK. The font I'm using should be the right one. There was some issues only about the grammar in that text, as English is not my native language, and so it is not guaranteed the text would be as polished as it might otherwise be.

The text was a nuicanse for me to make just because PSP7 didn't have the option to align both left and right to be even (still haven't checked PSP8, and probably won't). The scroll should be perfectly understandable, and I'm loath to change it, as I'm at this point loath to do anything with Lighthouse I don't absolutely have to do. There are still hiding in the shadows some level flow terminating bugs that I should isolate and remove once and for all. Those are the things I'm concentrating on.

Project Lighthouse contains as complicated levels as any Raven build, I suspect, and thus a million things could go wrong and eventually had to go. No matter what, I'm still planning to release the campaign this week.

Neverhoodian
08-20-2003, 12:28 AM
Good to hear that it's coming out soon. I'm eagerly anticipating this. Good to see that Jedi Outcast Single Player hasn't been forgotten in the hubbub surrounding Jedi Academy. With the Colosseum mod, Occupation 2, and now Project Lighthouse, Jedi Outcast's gonna go out with a BANG!

wedge2211
08-20-2003, 03:03 AM
And man, what a bang...

Shotokan
08-20-2003, 03:22 AM
K lassev I played the campaign all the way through... Haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. But of course I'm not a pro yet... *ahem* wedge *ahem*. I'd like to congratulate you on a well thought out SP campaign. *claps*

lassev
08-21-2003, 05:41 AM
It'll happen tomorrow. Might have been today, but there's still a couple of scripts I wan't to polish a little bit, play the whole campaign through once more with a critical eye, and make some changes to a couple of text files.

I didn't encounter any bugs at all the last few times I played the levels through, so I'm keeping my word (would be about the first time, too) and release the map this week. Tomorrow. Then it depends on Eldritch how soon PCGameMods will deign to post it :)

Leslie Judge
08-21-2003, 07:42 AM
Just in time. :) I still have to find some time to play Occupation2 again but now the other route, then I can write the review of it. So you have 2-3 days before I will have chance to play your level. :D

lassev
08-21-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Leslie Judge
Just in time. :) I still have to find some time to play Occupation2 again but now the other route, then I can write the review of it. So you have 2-3 days before I will have chance to play your level. :D

That's exactly what I had in mind. I wouldn't dream of releasing the level, if you weren't prepared to receive it. It would be completely impossible and thus very inconsiderate.

Leslie Judge
08-21-2003, 06:36 PM
See, guys? That is the correct behaviour. :D

lassev
08-22-2003, 06:54 AM
It's done. I can hardly believe it myself, but the file has been submitted to PCGameMods (well, it didn't demand Eldritch's approval after all, thanks to their clever scripts).

I still encountered some nasty bugs last evening. I'll be damned before I know where all those unexpected bugs arise from. I make a change to some minor script somewhere else in the map and the next moment some totally unrelated (so I thought) cinematic ceases to work.

But now it's there.

Captian
08-22-2003, 07:00 AM
omg dude im downloading right now, cant wait to play it

Captian
08-22-2003, 08:50 PM
I just finished lighthouse, and i agree completely with everyone who said this map was really good. it took me about 2 hours,(referring to the walkthrough 2-3 times ;) ) but im finished! great work lassev, but i have one question. how is the player suppose to figure out the final code without using the walkthrough? just keep changing it and failing until you get the right one?

wedge2211
08-23-2003, 02:33 AM
I did it without the walkthrough...so did all the other testers. There's a pattern to the code, you just have to figure it out.

(and DONT post the answer here, or use the spoiler tag, leave it for others to figure out.)

The Cheat
08-23-2003, 02:58 AM
im downloading it now, been looking at this thread and hope it is as good as it sounds

<EJK>DevMapAll
08-23-2003, 03:29 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA

Occupation 2, Project Lighthouse....all the good levels are on pcgamemods.com. AND PCGAMEMODS.COM IS DOWN!!!

At least for me, but for you guys it seems to be ok.

When wedge posted the link for occupation 2, I was able to get it. Let me try that here:

http://www.pcgamemods.com/2150

<EJK>DevMapAll
08-23-2003, 03:31 PM
wow, you know what? that actually worked....

it seems, for some reason, posting a link on lucasforum,s is the only way to get pcgamemods files.

THANK YOU LUCASFORUMS!!!!

and sorry for the double post.

Uber_Saber
08-26-2003, 06:56 PM
Very good campaign. My compliments. It took me a while to figure out more than several of the puzzles, and I like those sorts of things.

master_thomas
08-27-2003, 02:58 AM
Well, it took a while, what with problems with the download, to losing the cd, to distractions, but I finally got to play some of it. I love it so far.

lassev
08-27-2003, 05:34 AM
Thank you all for you compliments and feedback. Some people have encountered technical problems with Lighthouse, some have played it succesfully through without so much trouble.

It is indeed a very complicated level considering all the scripted events and functions. Unfortunately there's enough variability in the way the game behaves that it seems the level flow cannot be guaranteed at 100%. I don't know how Raven succeeded it with their own levels, but then again, they are professionals.

I submitted the level also to Massassi. Hopefully it got through and they will post it for the pleasure of all the frequent visitors of that great site.

I tried to update the file at PCGM with the version 1.1, but for some reason the upload script didn't allow overwrite, and thus it did not succeed. I hope Eldritch will give me a clue how to do it right.

lassev
09-08-2003, 05:40 AM
After many problems version 1.2 is finally out at PCGameMods. This time I hope the post will also stay there, and be not removed for unforeseen technical problems.