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Proto
04-16-2003, 09:15 AM
I wonder if you noticed a small detail in character's texturing on this screensthot:

http://proto_fc.w.interia.pl/wounds.jpg

Maybe it's just me, but it looks like burned out saber-wounds, just like in AotC when Dooku has defeated Obi-Wan. Concerning JA using inmproved Ghoul2 system used also in SoF2 it is more than possible.

Now, if so, would it just disappear after few seconds or maybe after few duels your character would look like a piece of some burned roast :D. What do you think?

StormHammer
04-16-2003, 09:35 AM
I don't know what to think. You could very well be right. in my view, painskins are long overdue for this series anyway, so it would be great to see the physical damage you're dealing out with your weapons.

Very well spotted, and thanks for sharing it. :thumbsup: ;)

coupes.
04-16-2003, 01:06 PM
indeed, it would really be cool if you actually saw your wounds, and they would stay on until the end of the mission. But they kinda look big on the picture (if that's what it is), i think they should make them smaller.

Boba Rhett
04-16-2003, 01:15 PM
Sweet. It sure looks like that to me. Nice find! :thumbsup:

Crazy_dog no.3
04-16-2003, 02:58 PM
Ah, details borrowed from SOF2 and AVP2 *remembers shooting people's heads off with powerful guns*

The Truthful Liar
04-16-2003, 03:06 PM
Why is the pretty lady breaking her leg? http://216.40.249.192/s/cwm/3dlil/sad.gif

:P

Jolts
04-16-2003, 03:35 PM
her leg is broke because of poor key posing and even worse character rigging.

Blademaster_109
04-16-2003, 04:32 PM
thats cool, and a great idea devs

Iblis Reborn
04-16-2003, 09:16 PM
assuming thats what it really is that would be great!
kinda lets you know where you stand in a duel
if your all bloodied up and the other guy doesnt have a scratch then you would know to either put it into overdrive or die
im hoping thats what it is!

coupes.
04-16-2003, 09:37 PM
this is not about the saber burns, but notice how none of the stances used look like they were taken from JO.

Tw'lek : duh!

bottom guy : if he's starting his swing then that's new, else it could be the end of a red stance swipe.

right guy : looks like he's gonna go "backhanded" looks cool.

t3rr0r
04-16-2003, 09:44 PM
/me dreams of seeing a burn mark from a blaster bolt on someone's forehead

StormHammer
04-17-2003, 08:06 AM
It looks like it might be a temporary effect. The dead guys on the ground aren't showing any damage marks that I can see.

I've looked at all of the other screenshots closely, and I can't find any more showing this kind of damage effect either. We need another screenie showing this to be sure...

Proto
04-17-2003, 08:51 AM
The dead guys on the ground aren't showing any damage marks that I can see.

Just look at the left hand of sith laying behind Twi'lek player and compare it to the one in front of her. There's also something wrong with skinning of her leg in this area :D. However I do think that it would be rather a temporary effect (especially concerning PC).

And yes, this is the only screenshot where I've spotted this "burns" so far.

And I believe that if there would be saber burns in, there is no problem to include blaster hits as well :jawa.

StormHammer
04-17-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Proto
Just look at the left hand of sith laying behind Twi'lek player and compare it to the one in front of her. There's also something wrong with skinning of her leg in this area :D. However I do think that it would be rather a temporary effect (especially concerning PC).

*plucks eyeballs out and gives them a quick spit and polish*

Ah yes, I can see that now. :) Thanks for pointing that out. :D

Of course, the obvious thing of notice in that screenshot is that they still haven't bothered to turn on realistic saber damage - no severed arms or heads. :( I hope it's still an option in the console - in fact, I hope they include it in the menu options this time around, so you can turn it on, and leave it permanently on. It adds a bit more realism to the game, IMHO, but it's a pain having to turn it on every time you play in JO....

t3rr0r
04-17-2003, 04:22 PM
i think it should be a permanent effect until the corpse vanishes... seeing as in sof2, there isn't really a change in fps when there are or aren't any blood splatters on a person.

StormHammer
04-17-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by t3rr0r
i think it should be a permanent effect until the corpse vanishes... seeing as in sof2, there isn't really a change in fps when there are or aren't any blood splatters on a person.

I totally agree. As the body is going to vanish anyway, it makes sense to make the damage permanent.

However, there's still the issue with your player character, and even with tougher opponents who remain alive for a long time. Will we just see the damage appear...and then a few seconds later disappear, like the saber scoring on walls? That would be a bit disappointing, IMHO. If they're going to show damage, it should remain until you kill an enemy and they vanish...and for your own character until you Heal yourself.

shukrallah
04-18-2003, 02:32 PM
if they stay, then creatures like that rancor monster would have lots of cuts on it. but it would still be cool. most star wars r Teen games, if the sabercombat is turned on, then the age thing might go higher. it should be a menu option.

GhostLotus
04-18-2003, 02:46 PM
Hmm i dont see how age limits would go up, in jo it was possible to cut off arms and legs(if you were extremely lucky/or had a mod on) so i dont see how saberscorchmarks are any worse.

SithLord13
04-19-2003, 09:16 AM
Guess we won't know anything until E3 so close but so far away in another galaxy :(

StormHammer
04-19-2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by GhostLotus
Hmm i dont see how age limits would go up, in jo it was possible to cut off arms and legs(if you were extremely lucky/or had a mod on) so i dont see how saberscorchmarks are any worse.

I'd have to agree. Lots of people know about the cheat code for realistic saber combat, so it's hardly a secret. Anyone can turn it on. Besides, if they were really worried about it, they could always implement a password-protected system for reduced gore, like they did with SOF2. As a matter of fact, I'd prefer it if they did that...then I could just turn the realistic saber damage on in the menu and forget about it.

t3rr0r
04-19-2003, 02:00 PM
i hope that there are as many dismemberment zones in ja as there is in sof2 sp... but i doubt they'll change them. :/

StormHammer
04-19-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by t3rr0r
i hope that there are as many dismemberment zones in ja as there is in sof2 sp... but i doubt they'll change them. :/

How many dismemberment zones do you want, for goodness sake? I mean, in JO you can already slice heads, hands, feet, arms, and do a mid-section slice. That's plenty for me.

I just wish they'd fix the death animations for some of those...because it's a bit odd seeing the top half and bottom half of the body keel over at the same time - it's basically the same animation for when they're not sliced in half. Making it a bit more realistic in those terms would satisfy me. :)

t3rr0r
04-19-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
How many dismemberment zones do you want, for goodness sake? I mean, in JO you can already slice heads, hands, feet, arms, and do a mid-section slice. That's plenty for me.
personally, i'd like the ability to slice someone right down the middle. :dev7:
I just wish they'd fix the death animations for some of those...because it's a bit odd seeing the top half and bottom half of the body keel over at the same time - it's basically the same animation for when they're not sliced in half. Making it a bit more realistic in those terms would satisfy me. :)
it'd be nice if, say, for one of the midsection separations the upper body was knocked off and the legs just kinda toppled over... and for head disbemberments, it'd be cool if the head rolled depending on how powerful the swing was. :dev7:

master_thomas
04-19-2003, 08:58 PM
T3rr0r, that's sick. I like it :evil2:.

SithLord13
04-19-2003, 09:05 PM
if anyone has seen the movie Resident Evil then they should be able to slice people in little squares like the lasers did to that guy that got kill last by them :evil1:

master_thomas
04-19-2003, 09:17 PM
I may be wrong, but didn't the dismemberment in JK2 only occur at the model joints? For the truly full dismemberment to work, there must be a huge number of joints. That could be bad for fps.

Blademaster_109
04-19-2003, 09:31 PM
yeah dismemberment was cool

StormHammer
04-20-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by SithLord13
if anyone has seen the movie Resident Evil then they should be able to slice people in little squares like the lasers did to that guy that got kill last by them :evil1:

Er...does the word 'overkill' come to mind here? :p

master_thomas...yes, I believe you're right, it was at the joints. I tend to agree that adding too many severance points would have a detrimental effect on performance. I doubt we will see realistic saber damage in MP for that reason, again...

MattJedi
04-20-2003, 12:14 PM
I would like to see a thrust move leaving a hole!! Like Maul did to good old Qui-Gon, gotta love it!!!

StormHammer
04-27-2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by MattJedi
I would like to see a thrust move leaving a hole!! Like Maul did to good old Qui-Gon, gotta love it!!!

Now that is an excellent idea. :thumbsup:

Toa Tahu
04-28-2003, 07:06 AM
I don't know whether anyone has noticed this or not,but notice the Twi'Lek's right arm wielding the saber,there's also a scorch mark there too.

SettingShadow
04-28-2003, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Toa Tahu
I don't know whether anyone has noticed this or not,but notice the Twi'Lek's right arm wielding the saber,there's also a scorch mark there too.

ehm, the right arm is zoomed in on that pic, I think almost everyone has noticed it :)

Pedro The Hutt
04-28-2003, 08:13 AM
I think it's the Force Rage effect, they did mention that the MP only powers would now be in SP too. so my guess it's the Force Rage effect coursing through that dark Jedi apprentice person.

PrimoSidone
05-02-2003, 03:41 PM
thats quit cool, but he got hit by a lightsaber.... aint that armor suppose to come off :D

StormHammer
05-02-2003, 04:55 PM
Just an FYI...the recent PCGamer article had some nice screenshots, and I found some further evidence of saber damage on the characters - so unless they decide to take it out...I reckon we'll get to see it in-game. :)

http://www.robertbowen.co.uk/saberdamage1.jpg
http://www.robertbowen.co.uk/saberdamage2.jpg

t3rr0r
05-02-2003, 06:41 PM
those look so cool. :D i can't wait, and by the time ja is out i'll have a new video card. :D

MuRaSaMuNe
05-02-2003, 08:26 PM
Hmm maybe chop off someones arm to make them weaker? Or cut off their leg to slow them down... that'd be coo. :cool:

Pedro The Hutt
05-02-2003, 10:22 PM
That would make it somewhat like Bushido Blade, and now that I look at those dark apprentice gits close up..... seems like the skin is supposed to look that way all the time. Perhaps they're now using something glowy that gives regular dark jedi person followers Force abilities O_o who's to tell at this point.

HertogJan
05-03-2003, 07:05 AM
Woa those look great!! Now you can actually SEE when you have hit your opponent. I've had several duels were I though I hit him hard, but he didn't have a scratch :rolleyes: Now you can SEE the scratches, whoo hooo!!

Taos
05-03-2003, 10:50 AM
Thanks for those pics Stormy! This is one part about JO that I did not like - you couldn't see where you hit your opponent. I like being able to know that I am causing damage. It's so much more of a confidence builder to know that I'm destroying someone. :)

Pedro The Hutt
05-03-2003, 10:59 AM
Yet again, I think it's simply part of the skin, since all the dark jedi lads seem to have the same marks on the same places (also, if you'd have a lightsaber scratch by your face you wouldn't be standing for long *points up at an earlier pic* )

Toa Tahu
05-03-2003, 11:46 AM
But I meant to say her forearm...did anyone notice that?And,if it's not a scorch mark,what is it?

PrimoSidone
05-03-2003, 12:02 PM
No lucasarts and raven know what we dont like.... they make stuff we do :D JA is gonna rock :D

SettingShadow
05-03-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt
Yet again, I think it's simply part of the skin, since all the dark jedi lads seem to have the same marks on the same places (also, if you'd have a lightsaber scratch by your face you wouldn't be standing for long *points up at an earlier pic* )

I have to disagree about that. Look at the dead Dark Jedi lying on the ground in the first pic, no marks at all. And also, they're at diffrent parts of the body, wich means that if they were a part of the skin, they would have to make a bunch of skins with marks at diffrent places. Also, the Twi'lek also have them (and only in that pic).

StormHammer
05-03-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt
Yet again, I think it's simply part of the skin, since all the dark jedi lads seem to have the same marks on the same places (also, if you'd have a lightsaber scratch by your face you wouldn't be standing for long *points up at an earlier pic* )

No, nein, non, nag ydy...I really don't think so. Here's a wider view of the first pic...

http://www.robertbowen.co.uk/saberdamage3.jpg

As you can see, the other enemies haven't really been damaged yet...but if you look carefully at the damaged guy, he is wearing exactly the same costume. An unfortunate case of the clone syndrome...but there you have it. ;)

wardz
05-03-2003, 09:34 PM
[Slightly off topic]

i know the game is in early development but I hope those people with the masks over their faces aren't the bad guys, they just look like a joke.. Bad dudes need to look...well... BAD!


W

razorace
05-03-2003, 10:11 PM
Dynamic wounds decals are cool and all but it's not a show maker/breaker for me.

StormHammer
05-03-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Dynamic wounds decals are cool and all but it's not a show maker/breaker for me.

True, it won't make or break the game, but it's nice to have all the same. It would also be nice to see a return of realistic saber damage...i.e., limbs etc., being cut off.

wardz...good to see you posting again. ;) Yeah...you're right, they should look even meaner than they do. It's a pity we're seeing a lot of clone troopers again...I was hoping for more variety in appearance. Also, why do these enemy Jedi always have to be human-like in appearance? If we're able to choose different races to play as a Jedi, shouldn't the enemies be a good mix of races as well?

PrimoSidone
05-04-2003, 07:44 AM
It would also be cool it that, code for limo hacking would be on default, so every server will let u chop a arm of a leg or something

Toa Tahu
05-04-2003, 07:56 AM
Yeah,it adds up to the fun of knowing where you hit your enemy.Sometimes,it's good to know an enemy is helpless once you cut off both arms. :D

Pedro The Hutt
05-04-2003, 10:56 AM
*shrug* I'm not going to think they're scorchmarks untill Raven tells us that such a feature has been put into the game. And besides, with some places that those "marks" are, the subject should at the very least be rolling over the floor in pain, let alone still be alive >.> I mean come on , that dark fella in the middle of that pic has those "marks" all over his body, he should be in a hospital about now. Not to mention, one scratch one his arm and leg seemed to be enough to put even master Kenobi out of comission in Ep. II @_@ (on a final note, ever seen a saber burn mark glow longer than say... 3 seconds in one of the movies? if there really would be a damage showing system in JA, they should quickly fade into black marks)

PrimoSidone
05-04-2003, 11:14 AM
:atat:

Emon
05-04-2003, 03:25 PM
It should be easy with their improvements, and it looks like they already have it.

Hopefully the damage and corpses will be perminant this time around. Especially with a ragdoll skelaton and possibly physics system, limp corpses will look good. They won't have to hide the poor clipping and cheesiness of a dead body hovering over a cliff.

Master_Payne
05-04-2003, 04:49 PM
After seeing the previus pic by StormHammer I wondered how can stay in feet with so many wounds and I hope it can be turned of like "wallmarks" in JO because I think it will drop the FPS and I already play JO very, very low and with 20-24 FPS (I need a 64mb video card at least)

StormHammer
05-04-2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Master_Payne
After seeing the previus pic by StormHammer I wondered how can stay in feet with so many wounds and I hope it can be turned of like "wallmarks" in JO because I think it will drop the FPS and I already play JO very, very low and with 20-24 FPS (I need a 64mb video card at least)

I don't know. Maybe they're glancing blows, i.e., flesh wounds? Maybe the guy only has 1 hit point left? *shrugs* Anyway, if realistic saber combat is still in there (even as a cheat) it will be academic for me. I'll be turning it on and watching the limbs fly... :D

Emon
05-04-2003, 06:23 PM
Only problem, StormHammer, is that using that saber cheat amplifies saber damage by many fold. You're better off with g_dismemberProbabilities 0. JA will probably have something more advanced though.

And yes, I did say zero.

StormHammer
05-04-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Only problem, StormHammer, is that using that saber cheat amplifies saber damage by many fold. You're better off with g_dismemberProbabilities 0. JA will probably have something more advanced though.

And yes, I did say zero.

Thanks for the reminder. I remember you posting that before. ;)

Solbe M'ko
05-04-2003, 08:37 PM
Something makes me doubt that they would have put in proper pain textures.

-1-If they use the same system from JKII (likely) the damage would show up in some arbitrary spot like dismember does now

-2- Considering that there was no blood in JKII and that George Lucas is phasing out the gore in his movies, it just seems unlikely to me.

Nevertheless, proper damage graphics would make any SW game far more "true" to the universe.
:duel:

t3rr0r
05-04-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
-1-If they use the same system from JKII (likely) the damage would show up in some arbitrary spot like dismember does now

-2- Considering that there was no blood in JKII and that George Lucas is phasing out the gore in his movies, it just seems unlikely to me.
1. they've improved the ghoul, and from what we've seen in sof2, damage decals are a reality.

2. phasing out gore? attack of the clones had the most dismemberment. :p

SeanTB123
05-05-2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by t3rr0r
phasing out gore? attack of the clones had the most dismemberment. :p

Not to mention that spray of blood you can make out when Obi Wan slices Maul in half in episode 1

Emon
05-05-2003, 03:23 AM
Yeah, rarely do you see blood with a lightsaber wound. You're cutting through so many veins and arteries it's impossible for the thin cauterization to hold back that pressure.

Then of course there's the inconsistancy in ANH with the blood in the cantina, which fanboys like to explain as "an alien with high blood pressure". :rolleyes:

Pedro The Hutt
05-05-2003, 10:37 AM
Oh well, let's just sit back for the moment and wait untill we get some footage of the game in motion(probably during E3), then we'll be able to see what truth there is about damage showing up on opponents and yourself.

Solbe M'ko
05-05-2003, 09:03 PM
Ok, i'll admit I shouldn't have said there was less gore in the new movies. What I meant was that there was a less dark atmosphere. Besides, the constant action in AotC really made it hard to pay attention to stuff like that, for me anyway.

-PS- What's the deal with the Hydralisk in the colosium? Was that just a coincidence?

razorace
05-05-2003, 10:03 PM
While it did look a lot like a Hydralisk, the overall design is very different than an actual Hydralisk. I thought the same thing when I watched the film for the first time too. :)

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 02:48 AM
I agree that is is different, but I can't help but think that that was an intentional addition. At one part it shows this angle where the sun is behind the creature and it looks almost EXACTLY like the opening cutscene from broodwar. It's this kind of garbage that turned me off to the new movies in the first place (that and the infamous N*Sync rumor!). But that's just my opinion.
:sweating:

razorace
05-06-2003, 03:19 AM
Well, I like the PT. While it does have a lot of weak points, it's given us a lot of Jedi action. :)

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 03:23 AM
That's true. Too bad it had too get mixed up with poor acting, shameful new characters, and a general lack of class. Nevertheless, I'm still going to pay top dollar to see the next one.

-PS-My favorite new character would have to be Kit Fisto. He's so funny!

MattJedi
05-06-2003, 03:58 AM
Kit Fisto is awesome, he looks so cool.

razorace
05-06-2003, 04:32 AM
Well, the problems with the PT is a totally different subject. If you want to get into it, start a new thread in the swamp and link us to it from here.

I think a lot of it comes down to where they're putting their efforts into. GL is putting a LOT of work into doing CGI stuff but not enough on production stuff like quality acting and editing.

HertogJan
05-06-2003, 05:28 AM
*coughofftopic*

Anyone remembers how long before the release of JO a moviewas released? I can remember only one movie being released (it started with the imperial march)... I don't think LEC will release a movie a lot earlier than with JO! Maybe some new screens tho...

razorace
05-06-2003, 06:06 AM
uh, what are you talking about?

StormHammer
05-06-2003, 06:52 AM
*looks around*

Hmmm...this thread appears to have gone off the rails.

*places thread firmly back on track*

There you go.

Anyone else want to add anything more about pain-skins for JA? :)

I'm still sure those red marks are saber damage. I would assume they will implement the same kind of damage for other weapons. What do you think? Is it saber-only?

PrimoSidone
05-06-2003, 06:58 AM
Saving Private Ryan had gore too did it not? what did mohaa and bf have?? none

so it does not matter with the movies it matters with the public

razorace
05-06-2003, 09:17 AM
Uh, to correct everyone out there, pain skins are not what we're probably seeing in those screenies.

"Pain skins" are where the model skin switches based on the character's health level/damage. Pain skins only show generic damage instead of hit based damage.

t3rr0r
05-06-2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Uh, to correct everyone out there, pain skins are not what we're probably seeing in those screenies.
yeah, people... they're decals!

anyway, if they don't have blaster wounds, i'll be slightly disappointed.

Pedro The Hutt
05-06-2003, 11:19 AM
Despite the fact that the majority of games of this genre don't have them?

MattJedi
05-06-2003, 02:22 PM
Raven may have devloped an inchanced version of the SOF2 pain skins. Are they pain skins?

StormHammer
05-06-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by MattJedi
Raven may have devloped an inchanced version of the SOF2 pain skins. Are they pain skins?

Pain skins...decals...I don't care what you call them. Although you're probably right in that they are most likely decals similar to the lightsaber trails you see on walls, floors and what-have-you. As long as they look good in-game and give you a visual idea of how damaged your opponent is, that's all I ask. It would be nice to see these 'decals' implemented in MP as well.

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 03:51 PM
On a somewhat related note: How come the dudes on Jabba's sail barge in ROJ didn't show any signs of damage? They just kind of crumpled over into the lightsaber.

Iblis Reborn
05-06-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Yeah, rarely do you see blood with a lightsaber wound. You're cutting through so many veins and arteries it's impossible for the thin cauterization to hold back that pressure.

Then of course there's the inconsistancy in ANH with the blood in the cantina, which fanboys like to explain as "an alien with high blood pressure". :rolleyes:

maybe it was cauterized but it hit the floor in a way that cracked the cauterization and some blood flew out
(at least thats what i tell my non SW loving friends when they try to bitch about the movies :D)

The Count
05-06-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
True, it won't make or break the game, but it's nice to have all the same. It would also be nice to see a return of realistic saber damage...i.e., limbs etc., being cut off.

wardz...good to see you posting again. ;) Yeah...you're right, they should look even meaner than they do. It's a pity we're seeing a lot of clone troopers again...I was hoping for more variety in appearance. Also, why do these enemy Jedi always have to be human-like in appearance? If we're able to choose different races to play as a Jedi, shouldn't the enemies be a good mix of races as well?

Well you mean Alien races like Dessann eurgh!

MuRaSaMuNe
05-06-2003, 05:16 PM
Maybe some savage creatures like in MotS such as the Vornskr (wolf thing), Noghri (ape-like creature who likes bashing things), Dianoga (huge squid things in the water) etc. Heh, I'd love to see a kell dragon too ;)

Back on topic, would it really be necessairy to see the caterized slash if there is dismemberment? Wouldn't the body part just fall off anyway?

StormHammer
05-06-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Count_D00ku
Well you mean Alien races like Dessann eurgh!

No. :rolleyes: I didn't particularly like the design of Desann.

I mean races that have been seen in the Star Wars movies, like Zabrak, Ithorian, Wookie, Devaronian, Twi'Lek, Mon Calamari, Sullustan, Rodian, Trandoshan...even Yoda's race. If we can have some of these as blaster-toting enemies...why not have some as Dark Jedi as well? Other races use the Force...not just humans.

Originally posted by MuRaSaMuNe
Back on topic, would it really be necessairy to see the caterized slash if there is dismemberment? Wouldn't the body part just fall off anyway?

That's one of the reasons why I think we will only see very limited dismemberment in JA by default, just like we did in JO. I hope they include the cheat codes again.

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 09:53 PM
Again, to go off topic (sorry):
What race is Desann anyway? Is he a barabel? If so, where's his tail?

Dismemberment: Come to think of it, the JO way of doing it was actually pretty accurate, I think. Sometimes they would lose a hand, etc. but if they didn't, there was just a big flash and a smoke cloud (probably smelly) and the guy went down. I have reconsidered and I don't think blood really has a place in this upcoming game, at least not to any great exponent, maybe occasionally a blood spurt (like Maul's in Phanton Menace), but not all the time.

StormHammer
05-07-2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Dismemberment: Come to think of it, the JO way of doing it was actually pretty accurate, I think. Sometimes they would lose a hand, etc. but if they didn't, there was just a big flash and a smoke cloud (probably smelly) and the guy went down. I have reconsidered and I don't think blood really has a place in this upcoming game, at least not to any great exponent, maybe occasionally a blood spurt (like Maul's in Phanton Menace), but not all the time.

I don't have an issue with blood at all in JA. If they leave it out, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Pain 'decals' are long overdue, and will be a great addition. I would be disappointed if we didn't have the same (or enhanced) control over the level of dismemberment in JA that we had in JO.

razorace
05-08-2003, 12:04 AM
I don't know. Since they're basically using the old damage system, you'll end up with a crapload of marks before you die.

Solbe M'ko
05-08-2003, 12:13 AM
I don't recall any visible cut marks in the original trilogy anyway, not even when Vader got smacked in the shoulder. Them weequays on Jabbas barge looked like they'd been punched in the stomach or something, not given a hot energy field in the guts. I've come to the conclusion that damage marks would make the game look goofy.

Oh, and SoF2 had some of the most unprofessional gib effects I've ever seen. The knife marks were nice, but taking of a leg at the hip with a 9mm was a bit excessive.

t3rr0r
05-08-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Oh, and SoF2 had some of the most unprofessional gib effects I've ever seen. The knife marks were nice, but taking of a leg at the hip with a 9mm was a bit excessive.
how does that make them unprofessional?

HertogJan
05-08-2003, 11:37 AM
Cause they should've known better. 9mm guns don't take of legs!! That's unprofessional; hiring an expert in guns and still not manage to deliver realistic gib effects, even though they claimed that SoF2 was going to be more realistic, with realistic damaging...


BUT!! personally I don't recall shooting of limbs with a 9mm in SoF2, it was much better than the gibs in SoF1!! So it wss just his opinion ;)

Solbe M'ko
05-08-2003, 03:06 PM
To continue with this idea: When Sof1 came out everyone said it was really amazing new technology, but doesn't anyone remember goldeneye? That game had the most death animations I've seen in a game.

I just found Sof2 to have too much emphasis on the gore, and not enough on the actual game design.

Agen
05-08-2003, 03:14 PM
I was terribly disappointed when i played Goldeneye :(
So i am not going to even mention anything about that.
I have never seen a leg come off with a 9mm in Sof2... maybe someone's telling fibees.

MattJedi
05-08-2003, 03:54 PM
Yeah the 9mm thing is bull****

BloodRiot
05-08-2003, 04:20 PM
The StarWars Universe is not known for the incredible ammounts fo gore IT DOESNT HAVE. :D

I think the only gory scene i saw is when Ben Kenobi slices an arm of that thug in the Mos Eisley cantina.

Blood is only justifiable with non energy weapons/fall damage etc.

Energy weapons burn the flesh cauterizing the wound, so there's a burn mark and no blood spurts out.

No SW game i saw so far had any blood effects from the get-go. I guess George Lucas wants to keep his stuff available to all ages.

Well If the game's damage rates are similar to the latest JO version, dont put any marcs. A character would look like a walking scar and those decals will affect the gameplay if they are excessive leading to frame rate loss and probably higher latency.

On the other hand, If the weapons are deadlier and alot more realistic, then i think it would be cool. The Dismember effects should also be in full by default. SOF2 and alot of other games that have gore effects have parental locks that are disabled by default but can be enabled. So if the game is overall deadlier, a few burnt scars and dismembering should be on by default.

For SP the blaster hits on walls should look cool. On ESB when Boba Fett shoots at Luke when he's peeking at the imperials taking Han Solo, you can see the burnt holes in walls where Fett hit.

Also, JO's saber marcs o nthe walls looked ok at first glance, but one can really notice it becomes a bit goofy overtime... one could really draw stuff. Improved collision would be nice to keep the saber from entering the wall fully maybe? Personally i dont believe someone could move the saber around inside a wall with no resistance...... Not a priority but something they should look into if they want to take that extra step toward visual quality.

StormHammer
05-08-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by BloodRiot
Personally i dont believe someone could move the saber around inside a wall with no resistance......

The problem there is that if you are close to a wall and swing the blade at an opponent...do you really want your blade to slow down and possibly stop because it 'meets resistance'? If so, that would then require everyone to stay out in the open in order to use their lightsabers...and that doesn't sound like much fun. It might be more realistic (Qui-Gon met a certain resistance when he tried to cut that hole in the door the first time in TPM), but in terms of gameplay it would be annoying, IMHO.

I agree that the saber trails on objects could possibly be enhanced. I also agree that enemy characters should not walk around looking like an open wound from head to toe...the combat needs to be properly balanced to ensure this doesn't happen.

OT: As for SOF1 and SOF2...if you don't like the gore, turn it off. Those games actually allow you to do that. And the only handgun you could use to blow off legs was the Silver Talon (aka Desert Eagle .50) in SOF. You could not blow off legs with a handgun in SOF2...only with heavier weapons. My major gripes with SOF2 were the linearity...the way that characters walked in straight lines (turning corners looked aweful in the cut scenes), you couldn't shoot around objects properly - even though your crosshair was clearly on a target beyond the object, you hit the object anyway - sometimes dead enemies would assume ridiculous positions like they were leaning against objects but weren't, and they were too damned accurate with grenades.

Agen
05-08-2003, 07:08 PM
Personally i would like dismemberment on by default without it killing them so easily, if they're gonna die then let them get ripped apart....

I had an idea though with the saber.. how about the saber is part of the skeleton (rag doll thing) when they take it out, it would make much more accurate collision detection i think.. midn you , i don't know how easy it owuld be to implement.

razorace
05-08-2003, 07:16 PM
Oh, that works. I've already put that in MotF (ghoul2 blade collisions). It's a major improvement but I can't make it as well as what Raven could do with the engine code.

Archonon
05-08-2003, 07:18 PM
What I think would be interesting to see is the addition of actual saber fight moves. That burn/slash marks appear while fighting then dismemberment as part of a finishing move. That and the ability to truly stab with the lightsaber would be great. So that you can actually either dismember or stab your opponents to finish the combat is what I wish they would be implementing.

Solbe M'ko
05-08-2003, 07:30 PM
The thing that I noticed about the saber trails in SP is that, if you put it in a wall it takes a second to "grow" back to it's original length (I guess this was so you couldn't kill trough walls). So if you stand looking at a wall, then have to kill an enemy, your saber is short when you swing it and it doesn't connect. I read the saber desciption on the SW website (I don't have the technical guide) and it said that the saber expends energy when it enters matter, so it would retain it's shape. It doesn't make sense to me at all. It would be cool if the game just made it so you held your saber different when it's close to a wall, like in the movies.

As for the SOF thing, you're probably right that it wasn't a 9mm. I havn't played that game for a long while, so I'm just going by my faulty memory. Even so, I remember taking off limbs on corpses by tossing knifes at 'em, so I just think it's excessive and to a point unrealistic.

And that point about the all ages thing is 100% true. If the SW games were rated M, some responsible parents (rare) wouldn't let their SW loving kids play them and they would miss out.

Oh and the stabbing: Like in Phantom Menace where Maul kills Jinn? That would be very nice, as opposed to just cutting him in half (like Obi vs. Maul).

BloodRiot
05-09-2003, 01:18 AM
I guessi didnt explain it properly.. im not saying the saber should be slower upon entering a wall.. i was reaching for an extreme of having the collision fine tunned so that no arms, legs weapons whatever are able to clip through walls. It was mainly for the clipping issues. Just an extreme i commented, nothing else... believe me i dont want the wall to interfere with game play... that's a realism level that i dont think would be beneficial to the game.

Anyway, my main point was about the scars on characters, i hope that sabers are lethal enough so that any character will die before becoming a walking charred scar.

Kurgan
05-15-2003, 07:02 PM
In the first pic posted in the thread, it almost looks as if the Twi'Lek's head tail had been severed (and the stump "burned" with the traditional JK2 glowing scorch mark).

Damage decals like this might be decals (which could look odd if put on the wrong way) or damage modified skins (which would take more time). It might be a single player only feature, but it could be interesting...

In JK2, you could use console commands or config (and no, not saberrealisticcombat, that was something different... it made the saber do super damage as well) to make dismemberment of arms, legs, hands, heads, and the famous "torso cut in half" effect possible in both SP and MP.

Some german gamers even released a blood patch (nothing too gruesome, but it was more like the movies, and the original E3 demo for JK2). I would expect the same to happen in the PC versions of JA.

It'll probably be there, just toned down with the default settings. ; )

Master_Payne
05-16-2003, 12:38 AM
Those wounds marks are great, and not just the glowy saber marks, also the blaster black spots on the character's clothes.
a nice (don't know the word, but is when things loke nicer at sight) improvement.
edit. see the 11th frame of second 53 to see the blaster marks.