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Rumor
04-19-2003, 12:46 AM
http://ravenforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1775

StormHammer
04-19-2003, 10:37 AM
Well, to be honest, we should have expected this. I mean, JA is putting even more control into the hands of the player, with a few more RPG-type elements, so there is likely to be an even wider audience for this kind of thing.

I have absolutely no problem with people who want to roleplay - except when they try to shove it down everyone's throats on FFA servers. If you want to play by a different set of rules, then all I ask is that they confine it to their own servers - which should be clearly marked as such.

I actually managed to have a half-decent time online today - didn't get the usual bucketload of connection interrupts, and I found a server where everyone was just playing FFA...you know...properly. A few saber fights, then you whip out any kind of gun and go blasting, plant some mines, use a bit of the Force...and not a single person complained. In fact, no one even said anything, except for me. It was a damned good blast for a change.

The only problem was finding a server where people were using guns - most of them seem to be saber only for some reason, or locked. It's a crying shame, IMHO...

Rumor
04-19-2003, 11:23 AM
most of the gunning clans have quit playing jk2

StormHammer
04-19-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Rumor
most of the gunning clans have quit playing jk2

Then Raven definitely need to take steps to fix that. As I've said in other threads, they need to come up with specific MP modes to keep the RP'ers happy, so the rest of us can get on with fraggin' and baggin'. ;)

greedo626
04-19-2003, 12:19 PM
I don't have a problem with people bowing in duel servers, but in FFA the taunt is the initiation of a duel so bowing after that is stupid. what's really annoying is when you're dueling some guy and he turns his saber off in the middle of the fight and says "how much life do you have?" omg! I hate that. I just DFA him:D . so my point is, if people want to play with all their little pansy rules, good for them. but watch out for me, cause I don't stop when you turn off you're blade:p

Prime
04-19-2003, 02:34 PM
Ultimately, so matter what features a game has, whether it does things well or poorly, there will always be people who are *******s and demand that people all adhere to their rules and play the way they want to play.

t3rr0r
04-19-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
Then Raven definitely need to take steps to fix that.
if there was a firearms selection system like in sof2 (pick your weapons, can't hold too many), gunning would be much more enjoyable...

oh, and if the bolts didn't take a minute to reach their target...

StormHammer
04-19-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by t3rr0r
if there was a firearms selection system like in sof2 (pick your weapons, can't hold too many), gunning would be much more enjoyable...

oh, and if the bolts didn't take a minute to reach their target...

I totally agree with you. :thumbsup:

Item number 1000000 on Raven's to-do list, methinks. ;)

Emon
04-19-2003, 05:48 PM
If you think Raven staffs' facial expressions look like this after reading posts like that:

:) :D :cool:

Then you are gravely mistaken. They look something more like this:

:confused: :mad: :rolleyes:

Prime
04-19-2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by t3rr0r
oh, and if the bolts didn't take a minute to reach their target... Absolutely. Especially those rockets. You can pretty much out-walk those things...

Rumor
04-20-2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Prime
Absolutely. Especially those rockets. You can pretty much out-walk those things... if they went any faster you would not be able to defend against them very well. esp with homing rockets they go faster as they approach

Iblis Reborn
04-20-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Prime
Absolutely. Especially those rockets. You can pretty much out-walk those things...

heh yeah i always love pushing those away
i think they put them that way for when its used up close but when your far away it does seem to take a week for them to reach their targets

and i did find the lasers to be a bit slow but it was nothing major

wassup
04-20-2003, 03:03 AM
I think a cool option is the ability to allow the player to control the rocket's flight. Something like the sniper rifle bullet in Max Payne, but to a deeper degree. For example, you would find a place, fire a rocket, and then have the option of viewing from the perspective of the rocket. You could guide it, make it go up and down, fly in circles, etc. Any force powers used on the rocket (ie. Force Push, Pull, etc.) would affect the rocket much in the same way as Force powers affects players (ie. if Force pushed you move backward, Force pulled you move forwards, etc.).

Dunno, just thought it would be a nice addition. :D

IMHO, its little features and additions like these that will make a new game stand out from the tried and true past games of this genre.

StormHammer
04-20-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by wassup
I think a cool option is the ability to allow the player to control the rocket's flight. Something like the sniper rifle bullet in Max Payne, but to a deeper degree. For example, you would find a place, fire a rocket, and then have the option of viewing from the perspective of the rocket. You could guide it, make it go up and down, fly in circles, etc. Any force powers used on the rocket (ie. Force Push, Pull, etc.) would affect the rocket much in the same way as Force powers affects players (ie. if Force pushed you move backward, Force pulled you move forwards, etc.).

Dunno, just thought it would be a nice addition. :D

IMHO, its little features and additions like these that will make a new game stand out from the tried and true past games of this genre.

And while you're in rocket-view mode...someone is sticking a lightsaber through the back of your skull.

I don't think that's a very good idea...

boinga1
04-20-2003, 07:12 PM
Perhaps the above system could include a proximity detector of some sort- when other players/bullets get close enough to you, rocket view stops. Of course, that sort of thing is very much like flying. Just imagine the "Rocket-Flyers"-a clan. There would be rulezz- NO SABERZZ!! ROCKETZZ ONLY!! And everyone would have to fly around using rocket mode to kill unless tey wanted to be kicked. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

StormHammer
04-20-2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by boinga1
Just imagine the "Rocket-Flyers"-a clan. There would be rulezz- NO SABERZZ!! ROCKETZZ ONLY!! And everyone would have to fly around using rocket mode to kill unless tey wanted to be kicked. :

:rofl: ROFL That's so funny! :D

Er...actually...it's not. I can just see that kind of thing happening. :eek:

coupes.
04-21-2003, 10:56 PM
and you could have rocket races around the map...

wassup
04-21-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
And while you're in rocket-view mode...someone is sticking a lightsaber through the back of your skull.

I don't think that's a very good idea...

Lol...true, buts thats the risk part of the idea. ;)

Solo4114
04-22-2003, 12:25 AM
So, basically a lighter powered UT redeemer? I think we've had enough UT weapons. How about something more STAR WARS?

The_One
04-22-2003, 06:18 AM
Bah.

Bat Sabre Wars (Copyright) all the way!

HertogJan
04-22-2003, 08:08 AM
Wow it seems that every thread in this forums is turning into a 'making even more suggestions for JA that raven won't even consider'-thread :D

But emotes are strange, only saw 1 or 2 servers where you could do /amspin or whatever... I usually don't see many RPGers and I use guns whenever I want to, it's very easy to play as a gunner in FFA, just blast them in their backs, woohoo!!

Prime
04-22-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
And while you're in rocket-view mode...someone is sticking a lightsaber through the back of your skull.

I don't think that's a very good idea... I agree. Plus, it is probably overdoing it for trying to add something new weapon-wise. The rocket launcher is pretty good the way it is. I just wish it would move a little faster...

Rad Blackrose
04-23-2003, 02:07 PM
All we can do now is wait. We honestly do not know if all the suggestions are being taken into consideration by Raven, but if JA is going to fall down the same path as JKII... This could get brutal.

StormHammer
04-25-2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Prime
The rocket launcher is pretty good the way it is. I just wish it would move a little faster...

Yes, the speed of a lot of projectiles does not seem fast enough, so they could all do with some adjustment. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
All we can do now is wait. We honestly do not know if all the suggestions are being taken into consideration by Raven, but if JA is going to fall down the same path as JKII... This could get brutal.

I tend to agree with you. Raven have stated that they took on board a lot of feedback from JO, so I'm sure they've tried hard to give us all a better gaming experience this time around. The problem is that some gamers will never be satisfied unless the game plays exactly the way they want...and I can very much see another scenario where people start making polls and discussion threads to get X, Y and Z changed because they think they're lame. I can only hope that this time Raven will not try to fix everything to please everyone. Changing gameplay dynamics instead of simply patching bugs only serves to divide gaming communities, IMHO.

Prime
04-26-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
All we can do now is wait. We honestly do not know if all the suggestions are being taken into consideration by Raven, but if JA is going to fall down the same path as JKII... This could get brutal. I think Raven is pretty good for listening to feedback, so I expect a great game.

PrimoSidone
04-26-2003, 05:26 PM
Lets just hope it aint the same gameplay as jkII

I hope to see the saber gameplay changed

SeanTB123
04-26-2003, 05:52 PM
As far as the guided rocket goes, they could still do it...but do it Half-Life style where it has a laser guide. After you launch the rocket, it essentially moves towards where your laser is pointed....so you can lead it into a moving target. It worked really good on half-life, and it could work just as well on JA. Plus, you would still have a view of the surroundings, and not get your head sliced off.

StormHammer
04-26-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by SeanTB123
As far as the guided rocket goes, they could still do it...but do it Half-Life style where it has a laser guide. After you launch the rocket, it essentially moves towards where your laser is pointed....so you can lead it into a moving target. It worked really good on half-life, and it could work just as well on JA. Plus, you would still have a view of the surroundings, and not get your head sliced off.

that sounds like more of an improvement...but still, considering the rocket ca already home in on a target, does it need any further tweaking?

In fact, does it need to be there at all?

PromoSidone...I don't think we'll see exactly the same gameplay as JO...but on the other hand, I don't expect it to be too far removed from what we already know in terms of saber combat. There will certainly be new moves, and it looks like each saber selection could well have it's own associated styles, so hopefully that will expand the possibilities...

PrimoSidone
04-26-2003, 06:41 PM
yeah ill have my fingers crossed

Prime
04-27-2003, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
Lets just hope it aint the same gameplay as jkII

I hope to see the saber gameplay changed What was so terrible about gameplay in JO? What would you like to see changed?

PrimoSidone
04-27-2003, 06:14 AM
Its just so damn buggy, u have to to the same stuff again to have it work. I cant really explain this but ill try:

1. There is this great bug that when u crouch u hit more
2. If u have a high ping ur certain to lose
3. U just slash and slash and slash and hopefully to hit something.
4. Like i said u have to do everything again with that i mean that if u just slash left, and u keep on continuing the guys is certain to die, left left leftleft ooops i hit the guy, heheh nice, lets do it again left left left left.



Thats why i actually left JO ( and becuase there were not any nice servers with nice pings)


Promo

Prime
04-27-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
Its just so damn buggy, u have to to the same stuff again to have it work. I cant really explain this but ill try:

1. There is this great bug that when u crouch u hit more
2. If u have a high ping ur certain to lose
3. U just slash and slash and slash and hopefully to hit something.
4. Like i said u have to do everything again with that i mean that if u just slash left, and u keep on continuing the guys is certain to die, left left leftleft ooops i hit the guy, heheh nice, lets do it again left left left left. I don't see how any of these are bugs.

1. There is this great bug that when u crouch u hit more
You can sometimes hit this way because you are swinging under the block. You can defend against this by crounching down or aiming down on defense. Isn't this as it should be? If someone is swinging under your block, it should hit.

2. If u have a high ping ur certain to lose
This is the ultimate factor. No matter how perfect the game is, if you are playing with a high ping, you are going to have problems. This is not a bug, this is not having the necessary internet requirements to play the game (are you a 56Ker?). I have a DSL modem, and I get great pings, and this leads to a great game experience.

3. U just slash and slash and slash and hopefully to hit something.
Ah yes. Button mashing. Many players do it, and it is a very ineffective way to play, at least against decent players. Again, this is not a "bug", this is people choosing to play this way, and not learn the tricks. With a little practice, players can time their swings to attack openings in their opponant's defense.

4. Like i said u have to do everything again with that i mean that if u just slash left, and u keep on continuing the guys is certain to die, left left leftleft ooops i hit the guy, heheh nice, lets do it again left left left left.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Are you still refering to button mashing? There are a lot more effective ways to play than just holding down the attack button. But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. But again, this doesn't sound like a bug with the actual game.

PrimoSidone
04-27-2003, 03:03 PM
Prime i know that u try to explain some stuff what u think aint right.

But take it from me (i was #2 dueler in jk2 when i played the game) the only one i could nog defeat was PAnick. He was #1 @ clanbase. U know why? He was a bug exploiter. It may sound a little strange but the crouch hit WAS and IS a bug. And about slashing and stuff just take my word that it sucked and was buggy.

But u know what i think they should do:

I dont know if any of u guys played Prins of Persia 3D, but i liked the mechanism, not that u stop and start to duel but i mean the blocking and the left or right slashes wich could only be blocked if u truly block left or right or above or down. If they could like mix up a few of those it would make the game more exiting and more movie like.


Promo

PrimoSidone
04-27-2003, 03:08 PM
Now to answer ur reply
as i told it has bugs witch crouching and slashing

u have nothing to complain about, u live in canada all nice servers are in usa. it is something else when u have to play on noob servers here in europe..... only good european servers are finnish and they give me lag :mad:

And about the slashing. When u strike and it looks like u hit, sometimes u dont, and it is also laggy with the dmg, sometimes u do like 40 dmg next time 10 next time 20 with same stance and attack. Thats the buggy and sucky part.

HertogJan
04-27-2003, 03:31 PM
Hmm I never had much lag and even if I had, it still wouldn't be a bug!! And on a more 'professional' level (I played in a clan for some time), we played on the zone. (http://www.zone.com) and then you learn how to play with lag, although most games were OK :D

Prime
04-28-2003, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
Now to answer ur reply
as i told it has bugs witch crouching and slashingI still don't see how this is a bug. There are ways to defend against it, and the code does what it is designed to do. Why do you think it is a bug? What do you think the code should be doing? What you discribed for a replacement is just that, a different way the game might have implemented lightsaber combat. But the fact that you want changes doesn't make Raven's game buggy.

Originally posted by PromoSidone
u have nothing to complain about, u live in canada all nice servers are in usa. it is something else when u have to play on noob servers here in europe..... only good european servers are finnish and they give me lag :mad: Again, this has nothing to do with the code Raven has written for this game. The code works perfectly well. There is nothing Raven can do about this. It comes down to the unfortunate fact that you do not have the necessary internet connection to play this game as it was intended. While I can understand your frustration, it does not make the problem a "bug" in software.

Originally posted by PromoSidone
And about the slashing. When u strike and it looks like u hit, sometimes u dont, and it is also laggy with the dmg, sometimes u do like 40 dmg next time 10 next time 20 with same stance and attack. Thats the buggy and sucky part. The collision detection is again affected greatly by lag. Lag is not a bug. As someone with a good connection, I can assure you that the game code works fine. As for the varying damage you talk about, this is how the game is supposed to work, as of patch 1.03. From the readme:

Lightsabers will do less damage at the very start and very end of a swing. This should prevent
kills from just touching an opponent with the tip of your lightsaber.

So this again is not a bug, but the way the game is implemented.

PrimoSidone
04-28-2003, 06:44 PM
The crouching thing is hard to explain since u got the books and i got the field exp.. to be figurly speaking.


Ill tell u a thing that happned a lot to me.

I had the same ping as the other guys so no lags.
The guy crocuhed and he hit sometimes i blocked, sometimes it hit me when i was like 2 meters away and there was like NO way he could of hit me. But then the other times when standing on the same spot with the same ping he did not hit me. Just trust me on this one when i say the gameplay was not that good. we could argue a lot about this, we wont get anywhere. I am giving my oppinion and u are giving urs. U dont believe me .... fine, u do, gratz on u.

Prime
04-29-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
Ill tell u a thing that happned a lot to me.I'm not trying to pick on you, and I do believe that you are experiencing these problems. All I'm saying is that these are the result of your poor ping, not a problem with the game itself. Of course the gameplay won't be good when you have a high ping, which means lots of lag.

Originally posted by PromoSidone
I had the same ping as the other guys so no lags.
No. This is not what ping means. The ping is the amount of time between when your computer sends a "message" to the server and when you get a response back. The fact that your ping is not 0 means that there is at least some lag. All good pings mean is that the lag is unnoticable because the game is getting the required information fast enough.

The fact that you and the other players had the same ping means nothing. If your ping was bad (usually above 150-200 or so) and everyone was the same as you, then that will make the gameplay even more laggy. This is because it takes a long time for a message to get from you to the server, and just as long for a message to get to the other player. The game server can only use the information it receives, and if there are lots of delays, then the results are going to be swings that miss when they should have hit, and hits when they should have missed. That's why high pings are such a killer.

Originally posted by PromoSidone
I am giving my oppinion and u are giving urs. U dont believe me .... fine, u do, gratz on u. I know you have the opinion that the game sucks. I know for a fact (because you told me :) ) that your gameplay is bad in the way you mentioned. It is also a fact, not an opinion, that the problems you are experiencing are because of lag. This is because of your poor internet connection, not the game that Raven has made. If you play another current FPS online with the same ping, you are very likely to encounter the same problems.

Again, I'm not trying to flame you, I'm just saying that the game itself is not buggy, at least in this instance. :) Just out of curiousity, what does your ping tend to be when you play online?

PrimoSidone
04-29-2003, 06:33 AM
Depends, My ping in servers in holland are nice nice 30 or something

Jolt 30 too
Finland depends, some times 30 sometimes 300

and that was it..... i could not play on any other server without having lag..


The few problems i mentioned about the crouching had really nothing to do with lag, maybe sometimes but thats a nother problem. U cant believe there is a game without any bug is it??
Thats the bug of JO, that is sometimes ****s up. Maybe raven will make it more better in JA



Promo

Prime
04-29-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
Depends, My ping in servers in holland are nice nice 30 or something

Jolt 30 too
Finland depends, some times 30 sometimes 300

and that was it..... i could not play on any other server without having lag..And so the gameplay is much better on those servers where you have a low ping? Also, if someone with a terrible ping joins a server, that can also affect the lag of the other players.

Originally posted by PromoSidone
The few problems i mentioned about the crouching had really nothing to do with lag, maybe sometimes but thats a nother problem. I'm still a little unclear on what you think the bug is when swinging while crouched. Is it because they are hitting? Can you explain to me again what is happening?

Originally posted by PromoSidone
U cant believe there is a game without any bug is it??
Of course there are going to be a few bugs in JO, or any large software project. I know all about it first hand, being in the software industry :) Raven has already released patches to fix the main bugs, like the DFA collision detection, lunge floating, spinning backstab, and so on. And there are still a few minor ones in there.

All I'm saying is that the problems you have descibed do not fall into the "bug" category.

Originally posted by PromoSidone
Thats the bug of JO, that is sometimes ****s up. Maybe raven will make it more better in JA I have no idea what this means. What is your definition of a "bug"? :confused:

PrimoSidone
04-29-2003, 03:01 PM
To me it are mistakes that aint suppose to happen. Sometimes it happnes sometimes not. And becuase it has nothing to do with lag i call it a bug

Prime
04-29-2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
To me it are mistakes that aint suppose to happen. Sometimes it happnes sometimes not. And becuase it has nothing to do with lag i call it a bug Well, unless you tell me what the actual problem is, I can't argue with that :) All I've had to go on is:

There is this great bug that when u crouch u hit more Going by this, it doesn't sound like a bug, mainly because this is likely the way it is ment to be. But this is obvious gotten to the point where I'm never going to convince you otherwise, so I won't try.

Good day :)

PrimoSidone
04-29-2003, 03:28 PM
Play with PAnick ull see, even when ur in the air and hes crouching ull get dmg....

Prime
04-30-2003, 12:26 AM
But isn't this the way it is supposed to be?

Could you make a demo of it? Then I might have a better idea what your talking about.

PrimoSidone
04-30-2003, 07:47 AM
Prime we were old skool

Now he does not play anymore, and everybody i knew quit too.
I just started yesterday again..... I aint playing that bad considering the time i have not played :)

Prime
04-30-2003, 12:45 PM
Oh. OK :)

Taos
04-30-2003, 01:27 PM
Man, I don't know how I have been missing this thread.

*scratches head*

What was the topic again?


Hmmm......hey, what does this button do?