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View Full Version : Are we FORCED to use the saber staff?


Toa Tahu
05-01-2003, 06:31 AM
If we are,then really,no good.
What do you all think?I think we should be made able to finish the game whatever we do,as long as we do it effectively.

HertogJan
05-01-2003, 07:09 AM
For as far as I know, you're not forced to use it. In the articles, they only said that it would become available to you, later on in the game.

Toa Tahu
05-01-2003, 08:07 AM
But the way they said it,it sounded like,"You will be given the opportunity to use the saber staff..."

It really sounded like you're forced to use it when it comes.Or at least,when it comes,you'll be forced to use it like how guns are useless against Jedi(try using a conc to any of the Jedi's in JK and see!)

GonkH8er
05-01-2003, 08:12 AM
You don't have to use it.... and I don't think you have to use the 2nd saber when you get it either... you can stick with 1 if you prefer, as far as i know

Blademaster_109
05-01-2003, 10:01 AM
i'm 110% sure u get to choose between dual, or saber staff.

t3rr0r
05-01-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Toa Tahu
But the way they said it,it sounded like,"You will be given the opportunity to use the saber staff..."
opportunities aren't mandatory. :rolleyes:

SettingShadow
05-01-2003, 10:56 AM
Well, I'm 99 + 1 % sure that when you've gotten to a certain point of the game (like, you have full saber defense or something) you get the chance to construct a lightstaff, two sabers, or just stick with your simple, yet effective, single blade :)

Taos
05-01-2003, 11:25 AM
I don't think they'll make us use one.....I just think it's nice to have choices for once! :D

txa1265
05-01-2003, 12:12 PM
Personally, I am interested in trying out the dual handed sabers and 'light staff', but would prefer to stay single saber. It really depends on what advantages / disadvantages there are to each. I don't see it much different from the stances, where there are advantages and disadvantages to each, and so long as there is balance in what each saber gives you, it should be more interesting to play. For instance, if they made it so the lightstaff had 'blue stance' blocking abilities front and back, and powerful swings front and back, and kicking ... it would be nearly impossible to balance. But perhaps with a single saber you could perform force powers which still blocking with the saber, or something. They just need to find a way to balance the offence, defense, acrobatics and force power abilities of the three potential types.

I would actually like to see you limited to what you carry in terms of sabers as well as guns. For instance, carrying the lightstaff means no 'regular saber', or two sabers cuts out a gun, or something like that.

Mike

Toa Tahu
05-01-2003, 12:21 PM
No offense,terror,but I remember saying,"...are given the opportunity...",and that suggests that it is indeed 'a treasured' option,and since it's treasured,we MIGHT have to be forced into using it.

No offense,just suggesting.Anyway,what would we do if we were(please,no) forced to do so?

taekwondo joe
05-01-2003, 12:22 PM
you have a singel blade for awile, then it comes to a point in the game, were you get to have two sabers, or a saber staff, or keep the saber you have. that is all

Pedro The Hutt
05-01-2003, 12:34 PM
If we were forced? Well I'd ask another apprentice at the academy to slice the thing in half, give the other half to Luke so that the next fresh student to the academy has a freshly sliced saber to start with and I can go back to using a single saber of sorts XD and if no helpfull apprentices are available I'd break it on my knee or against a corner of the very solid temple walls or something. ^_^

Prime
05-01-2003, 01:44 PM
As long as I can stick with my single blade, I'll be happy. And I suspect that this will be the case.

The only fear that I have is that the single blade will be less powerful than the other styles.

txa1265
05-01-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Prime
As long as I can stick with my single blade, I'll be happy. And I suspect that this will be the case.

The only fear that I have is that the single blade will be less powerful than the other styles.

From what I've read, they (Raven & LEC) are very sensitive to the balance issues people were concerned about from JKII. I suspect that while they may feel that most will want to 'have a go' with two sabers or the saber staff, they will realize that others will want to do the whole game with a single saber. Just as 'real' jedi use a variety of saber blades, styles and force powers.

Should be interesting to see - I think we'll know more in a couple of weeks.

Mike

PrimoSidone
05-01-2003, 03:10 PM
Prime, nor Obi and Qui could not defeat maul alone, because he had a staff saber.. i think they will make the staff saber more powerfull than the normal one.... it makes sense dont u think?

Pedro The Hutt
05-01-2003, 03:23 PM
actually both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon did do fine against him on their own, untill Maul decided to play dirty =p whopping someone in the face with your hilt and then stabbing them during that moment where they're stunned isn't exactly honorable combat, nor is pushing someone down a deep pit and then kicking his saber over the edge. But pointing being they both did very well holding off two blades with just one of their own.

txa1265
05-01-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt
actually both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon did do fine against him on their own, untill Maul decided to play dirty =p whopping someone in the face with your hilt and then stabbing them during that moment where they're stunned isn't exactly honorable combat, nor is pushing someone down a deep pit and then kicking his saber over the edge. But pointing being they both did very well holding off two blades with just one of their own.

Personally, I found that in that battle sequence the difference was that the Jedi were trained to fight 'honorably' and Maul was trained to win. Qui-Gon was matching him, albeit defensively, until he tired. Obi-Wan had the advantage, but failed to forsee Maul's Force Push level 3 out of the saber lock ;) Seriously, Star Wars Insider did a thing about the '7 forms', and described Maul as a type 7, combining strength and speed.

So it is the Jedi, not the saber ...

Mike

taekwondo joe
05-01-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by txa1265
Personally, I found that in that battle sequence the difference was that the Jedi were trained to fight 'honorably' and Maul was trained to win. Qui-Gon was matching him, albeit defensively, until he tired. Obi-Wan had the advantage, but failed to forsee Maul's Force Push level 3 out of the saber lock ;) Seriously, Star Wars Insider did a thing about the '7 forms', and described Maul as a type 7, combining strength and speed.

So it is the Jedi, not the saber ...

Mike i agree completely

Luc Solar
05-01-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
Prime, nor Obi and Qui could not defeat maul alone, because he had a staff saber.. i think they will make the staff saber more powerfull than the normal one.... it makes sense dont u think?

I really hate arguments based on the movies. This is a game and if a game has 7 different totally unbalanced saber styles along with 16 equally unbalanced sabers, all we got is ONE style and ONE kind of saber. The rest is obsolete.

A crappy, unbalanced game is a crappy, unbalanced game even though Lord Vaderz really did block a blaster shot with his hand in Teh Movie(!!1).

Balance is something that makes or breaks a game. I couldn't care less whether or not Obi or Yoda or Master Skywalker could beat Maul.

(Besides, Obi *did* beat Maul.)

Prime
05-01-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by txa1265
Personally, I found that in that battle sequence the difference was that the Jedi were trained to fight 'honorably' and Maul was trained to win. Qui-Gon was matching him, albeit defensively, until he tired. Obi-Wan had the advantage, but failed to forsee Maul's Force Push level 3 out of the saber lock ;) Seriously, Star Wars Insider did a thing about the '7 forms', and described Maul as a type 7, combining strength and speed.

So it is the Jedi, not the saber ...

Mike I also agree. Qui-Gon and Obi-wan lived in a time where the Galaxy was at relative peace, and spent much of their time doing non-combat related activies, such as diplomacy. Darth Maul, on the other hand, spent his entire life being trained to be a fighting machine.

So I think that Maul's talents in combat, not the fact he used a double-bladed lightsaber, were responsible for his effectiveness.

Regardless, a padawan learner with a single lightsaber gave him all he could handle :)

Master_Payne
05-01-2003, 07:13 PM
Maybe Maul handle two jedi with his light staff, but Dooku beat a two saber wielding Jedi, so it's 100% about the one using the saber and no the saber itself.
I really hopes you can stuck with a single and effective saber.

PrimoSidone
05-01-2003, 08:47 PM
What about 2 staff sabers :cool:

Rad Blackrose
05-01-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
What about 2 staff sabers :cool:

Leave it for Omni/JediMOD to handle.

Seriously, that stuff is just flat out wrong. Either or, not both.

Can't have your pie and eat it, now can you?

PrimoSidone
05-01-2003, 09:45 PM
it was a joke........ NOT LITTERLY......

Blademaster_109
05-01-2003, 09:50 PM
where in the world did you get that info in the first place.

SeanTB123
05-01-2003, 10:09 PM
Assuming the change to twin sabers/saber staff is optional, I'm hoping you'll be able to switch back to the single blade if the twin sabers/saber staff doesn't suit you. Maybe something you can toggle inbetween the levels. That seems like it would be practical.

Blademaster_109
05-01-2003, 10:14 PM
u probably get to do that since you have an arensal, it will have your old light saber.

Emon
05-01-2003, 10:44 PM
It wouldn't be an opportunity if you were forced to use it. I don't care what other words are in the sentence that have a very small and vague suggestion of forcing the player into using it, it's an opportunity.

Prime
05-01-2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Emon
It wouldn't be an opportunity if you were forced to use it. I don't care what other words are in the sentence that have a very small and vague suggestion of forcing the player into using it, it's an opportunity. It sure sounds like you have the option of using either.

Blademaster_109
05-01-2003, 11:39 PM
of course there will be an opprouinty

Andy867
05-02-2003, 07:13 AM
From my understanding, you will have the Force at the beginning as well as a single blade lightsaber, and only as you grow stronger will you be able to choose between the different sabers, whether its single blade, light staff, or dual sabers.

PrimoSidone
05-02-2003, 08:37 AM
It would be cool if u first had a blaster and needed to go to come kind of cave to get ur crystals...... and then make ur saber...:D

txa1265
05-02-2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
It would be cool if u first had a blaster and needed to go to come kind of cave to get ur crystals...... and then make ur saber...:D

If that was even considered ... I'm sure it went the same path as it did from the RotJ book to the movie ... ;)

Mike

StormHammer
05-02-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
It would be cool if u first had a blaster and needed to go to come kind of cave to get ur crystals...... and then make ur saber...:D

Maybe they'll include a training level, similar to JO's, where you have to use your Force powers to collect different parts of your lightsaber to be able to construct it at the very beginning. It would be a good tutorial for those new to the game...although it would probably be redundant for long-time players.

I hope any 'training' level is optional this time around...

reaper1576
05-02-2003, 12:07 PM
not sure but maybe the game will let you gain the staff saber and the duel Sabers to add to your weapons as you skills incresse so you can change in combat would be intresting if theres differnt styles for each saber types

IE:

Single Saber
Fast
Med
Heavy

Staff Saber
Fast
Med
Heavy

Duel Sabers
Fast
Med
Heavy

I hope they take there time with the styles so there not all the same stances for each saber Stuff Saber shoul;d be more like a quaterstaff style of fighting

PrimoSidone
05-02-2003, 12:34 PM
If u have TOO much choice it will become boooring....

Confusing...

Prime
05-02-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
It would be cool if u first had a blaster and needed to go to come kind of cave to get ur crystals...... and then make ur saber...:D According to Raven, they have learned their lesson about not giving players the lightsaber right from the start.

I think you can be sure you will have a lightsaber right from the get-go. Besides, in the movies, padawans are given a lightsaber from their masters right away.

Toa Tahu
05-02-2003, 02:20 PM
The more choice,the more variety,more interesting it becomes.

Anyway,it's the Jedi that counts,not the saber.

Andy867
05-02-2003, 02:23 PM
In several interviews, including the gamespy one that StormHammer brought to my attention, it is mentioned that the character will in fact have the lightsaber from the get-go. Cuz I mean, they are already Jedi Padawans.

PrimoSidone
05-02-2003, 04:37 PM
Prime i thougt that building a lightsaber made u a jedi or something

X_Fighter
05-02-2003, 05:35 PM
Prime i thougt that building a lightsaber made u a jedi or something

yeah that was part of their training (something in a book about this they go off to a planet which has the crystals for the saber and the master leaves them alone to build the lightsaber using the force or something like that)

PrimoSidone
05-02-2003, 07:30 PM
yeah that what i am talking about :D

Andy867
05-02-2003, 08:03 PM
But our characters will already be Jedi padawans under Master Skywalker and Kyle Katarn. So they already completed that phase of being a Jedi padawan.

VADER (indicating lightsaber)
I see you have constructed a new lightsaber.

VADER
Your skills are complete. Indeed, you are powerful, as the Emperor has foreseen.:D

JaledDur
05-02-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
Prime i thougt that building a lightsaber made u a jedi or something

Makes you a Jedi Knight. It's the last trial of a Padawan to build his/her own lightsaber. When they start off, they are given one by their master.

PrimoSidone
05-02-2003, 09:32 PM
The one those little padawans use in AotC??

Pedro The Hutt
05-02-2003, 11:25 PM
Actually... if making a lightsaber makes you a Jedi knight than both Anakin in episode II and Obi-Wan and episode I were already knights. Altough making a lightsaber is a big step in the training, in the old jedi order at least, you didn't get the rank of Jedi Knight untill you either did something awesome like defeating a Sith lord, or face the often mentioned but never seen trials.

Prime
05-03-2003, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt
Actually... if making a lightsaber makes you a Jedi knight than both Anakin in episode II and Obi-Wan and episode I were already knights. Altough making a lightsaber is a big step in the training, in the old jedi order at least, you didn't get the rank of Jedi Knight untill you either did something awesome like defeating a Sith lord, or face the often mentioned but never seen trials. Having constructed your own lightsaber does not make you a Jedi Knight, but you can not become a Jedi Knight if you haven't. It is one of several tasks you must complete before reaching the rank of Jedi Knight.

Andy867
05-03-2003, 06:23 AM
Yea, a great example is Luke, He contructed a lightsaber, but he still had to confront vader in a battle to become a Jedi (Knight). So constructing a saber is only partially the training

HertogJan
05-03-2003, 07:35 AM
Yeah and that makes it strange EPI Obiwan and EPII Anakin already had their own lightsaber :confused:

But making one in JA isn't going to work out, since you get to choose the hilt in the beginning... They could also make it so that you get a padawan saber in the beginning and that you can choose blade color and hilt only after a few missions. That would be the closet you can get to 'making your own lightsaber'.

But then again, why would they do that? It doesn't add much...

Pedro The Hutt
05-03-2003, 12:16 PM
Either that or it'll be a mix & match style of system, constructing your saber out of several parts untill you're content with it.

Prime
05-03-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
Yeah and that makes it strange EPI Obiwan and EPII Anakin already had their own lightsaber :confused: But do we know if they had made their own by that point or if those lightsabers were given to them by their masters?

I didn't think that was known. If so, perhaps the lightsabers they used were not constructed by them.

HertogJan
05-04-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Prime
But do we know if they had made their own by that point or if those lightsabers were given to them by their masters?

I didn't think that was known. If so, perhaps the lightsabers they used were not constructed by them.

But their lightsabers looked great! Can't be a normal, ordinary Padawan saber :)

Pedro The Hutt
05-04-2003, 12:12 PM
Not to mention that Anakin's saber looked incredibly similar to the one he used when he was Darth Vader, and similar to the one that Luke received from Obi-Wan, which was once his, so we can assume that the one he used in Epi.II was made by him as well.

Prime
05-04-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
But their lightsabers looked great! Can't be a normal, ordinary Padawan saber Maybe because thay had such great masters ;)

Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt
Not to mention that Anakin's saber looked incredibly similar to the one he used when he was Darth Vader, and similar to the one that Luke received from Obi-Wan, which was once his, so we can assume that the one he used in Epi.II was made by him as well. Just to play Devil's advocate, perhaps Vader's saber looked as it did because of the way his saber was when he was a padawan. Perhaps he liked the design of the saber that was given to him, and he became comfortable with it. Then, when the time came to make his own, he used many elements of the design of his padawan lightsaber in his new one.

Just a thought :)

Emon
05-04-2003, 07:21 PM
The tasks needed to become an "offical" Jedi Knight vary from person to person. Confronting your father doesn't make you a Jedi in every case...

Solbe M'ko
05-04-2003, 08:42 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that they only included lightsaber styles already used before in the movies or games, something new would have been cool.

-Sidenote- Darth Maul used sythetic crystals to build his lightstaff
:dsaber:

Andy867
05-04-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Maybe because thay had such great masters ;)

Just to play Devil's advocate, perhaps Vader's saber looked as it did because of the way his saber was when he was a padawan. Perhaps he liked the design of the saber that was given to him, and he became comfortable with it. Then, when the time came to make his own, he used many elements of the design of his padawan lightsaber in his new one.

Just a thought :)

Actually I read that Vader wanted to keep his design simple, but use black to go with the suit to strike fear into his enemies. So thats why his looks simple but still as some attraction to its design.

BrodieCadden
05-05-2003, 04:21 AM
Wouldn't one be unable to throw a saber staff? I hope so, that would even things up a bit, eh?

I would say there we would be more power and precision in a single saber strike than in an akimbo style saber strike. Also, there would be a greater array of moves, both single and double handed that would be unavailable to the akimbo specialist.

HertogJan
05-05-2003, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by BrodieCadden
Wouldn't one be unable to throw a saber staff? I hope so, that would even things up a bit, eh?

I would say there we would be more power and precision in a single saber strike than in an akimbo style saber strike. Also, there would be a greater array of moves, both single and double handed that would be unavailable to the akimbo specialist.

Yeah saber throw would be pretty much impossible with the lightstaff without slicing yourself :D

Toa Tahu
05-05-2003, 09:00 AM
First of all,what's akimbo if it's not single or double saber style?

Besides,you don't need to make a lightsaber to be a Jedi Knight.

StormHammer
05-05-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
Yeah saber throw would be pretty much impossible with the lightstaff without slicing yourself :D

Unless you throw it like a propeller. Vertical spin rather than horizontal. ;)

Prime
05-05-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Emon
The tasks needed to become an "offical" Jedi Knight vary from person to person. Confronting your father doesn't make you a Jedi in every case... True. I think it is more along the lines of completing a task successfully on your own. That task is determined by the circumstances of your personal situation.

Andy867
05-05-2003, 02:38 PM
Well,if anything, just use the Force to control how the saber goes. I mean in Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty/Substance, you could control a rocket (can't remember if its the stinger or nikita, I think its the nikita) so why not have a choice to control the lightstaff in the same manner. I mean its the Force. You can lift a fully submerged X-wing out of Degobah Swamp., so why not control the saber staff with a flick of the wrist(figuratively speaking)

HertogJan
05-05-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
Well,if anything, just use the Force to control how the saber goes. I mean in Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty/Substance, you could control a rocket (can't remember if its the stinger or nikita, I think its the nikita) so why not have a choice to control the lightstaff in the same manner. I mean its the Force. You can lift a fully submerged X-wing out of Degobah Swamp., so why not control the saber staff with a flick of the wrist(figuratively speaking)

Hey of course you're right, but for gameplay's sake, the sabers should be balanced!! Lightstaff has two blades (double damage ;)) and you can kick freely with the staff (very acrobatic)... it should have disadvantages too!!

txa1265
05-05-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
Hey of course you're right, but for gameplay's sake, the sabers should be balanced!! Lightstaff has two blades (double damage ;)) and you can kick freely with the staff (very acrobatic)... it should have disadvantages too!!

There I agree - while you could implement lightstaff throw, perhaps by making it a shorter bladed weapon, unable to throw, and lacking a strong single-hit like red stance, it would balance. Of course you need a 'finisher' ...

Mike

Andy867
05-05-2003, 06:13 PM
Well for balance issues, you could possibly throw the saber, but the damage is reduced, and the saber is made to be shorter to allow it to be thrown, etc.

Solbe M'ko
05-05-2003, 09:58 PM
I fell that throwing the lightsaber should be removed from the game and secondary fire should become Maul-esque kicks. Saber throw should only be included as a separate force power that drains alot of SOMETHING. It's just too damn powerful. Besides, only Vader threw his saber in the movies and in the books it is only used in extreme situations.

Andy867
05-06-2003, 12:42 AM
Well, isn't having your life at risk an extreme situation? but in all honesty, not everyone is really going to want saber throw once they see the new Force powers available. They will want to allocate more points to the new powers, and not the familiar powers. plus kicking will already be a part of the game with the saber staff. and like I said, the damage of the saber throw could be tuned down, as well as when throw, the saber will lose some of its length to compensate for balance issues .

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 03:40 AM
Saber throw should just have some kind of limiting factor, thats all. I don't know how to inplement a reasonable one, but you just shouldn't be able to clear a level using only saber throw, like in the Nar Shaddaa levels in JO.

StormHammer
05-06-2003, 07:42 AM
Personally, I don't have a problem with the way saber throw has been implemented in JO. I quite like it...and so I'd hate to see yet anothing thing nerfed in JA. If I had to do saber throw 20 times to kill an opponent, it would be utterly ridiculous. In SP, a few saber throws should take an opponent down...in MP, you can already block saber throw anyway.

txa1265
05-06-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by StormHammer
Personally, I don't have a problem with the way saber throw has been implemented in JO. I quite like it...and so I'd hate to see yet anothing thing nerfed in JA. If I had to do saber throw 20 times to kill an opponent, it would be utterly ridiculous. In SP, a few saber throws should take an opponent down...in MP, you can already block saber throw anyway.

I agree - there were some thoughts about moving it off of 2nd fire ... that I could abide. But it worked in a very 'realistic' way. Your defence would block it, but you'd take some hits. Non-saber wielders it was a 1-hit kill. All as it should be ...

Mike

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 01:10 PM
Yeah, it should kill. But you just shouldn't be able to use it exclusively. I found that it made the game a lot harder if you try not to use it.

txa1265
05-06-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Yeah, it should kill. But you just shouldn't be able to use it exclusively. I found that it made the game a lot harder if you try not to use it.

You can't use it exclusively - you take a force power hit for using it. If you use that you limit yourself in terms of Pull and Speed. And ... if you *do* choose that as your primary attack mode, isn't that just a way of personalizing the game to your own style?

Mike

StormHammer
05-06-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by txa1265
You can't use it exclusively - you take a force power hit for using it. If you use that you limit yourself in terms of Pull and Speed. And ... if you *do* choose that as your primary attack mode, isn't that just a way of personalizing the game to your own style?

Mike

I agree. :thumbsup: Besides, not everyone wants the game to be harder to play. I think it's simply a matter of personal preference, and choices of play-style should not be removed, but expanded.

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 04:57 PM
Yea, I guess so.
Nevertheless, I think that there should be some factor that makes saber throw more rare. It only happens once in the movies and rarely in the books. For me, it just takes away from the elegance of the weapon. Plus, it doesn't slo-mo like the other saber attacks do.

Andy867
05-06-2003, 05:41 PM
Well, if anything, Raven or some modder can make it so that the Saber throw when used drains all of your force energy. therefor in the heat of battle, people will have to use it rarely especially against another person using a lightsaber. Becuase if you get and your saber throw misses, you won't be able to heal immediately, therefore putting you in a vulnerable position.

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 10:56 PM
In thoeory, I concur.
In practise, though, it would likely be a huge pain in the rear to lose all your force because you hit the wrong key. I'm more interested to know how Vader got his saber back after he tossed it in RoJ. If it took longer to come back, or something that might be better. Just not like it is, I think they took that idea out of RoJ for the Super NES.

HertogJan
05-07-2003, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
In thoeory, I concur.
In practise, though, it would likely be a huge pain in the rear to lose all your force because you hit the wrong key. I'm more interested to know how Vader got his saber back after he tossed it in RoJ. If it took longer to come back, or something that might be better. Just not like it is, I think they took that idea out of RoJ for the Super NES.

Yeah, or that you'd have to press your mousebutton to get it to come back, with some delay... Not just keep spinning or something...

BTW, have you ever thought about combos in JA? I'd like to see real combo's, several swings, strikes, kicks and unique moves chained, to be executed by a couple of key presses.

It would be fairly hard to do ofcourse and maybe you should only be able to pull off a combo once in like 2 minutes (to keep things interesting)... More like combo's in Mortal Kombat, but with your lightsaber, you know what I'm saying?

txa1265
05-07-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Yea, I guess so.
Nevertheless, I think that there should be some factor that makes saber throw more rare. It only happens once in the movies and rarely in the books. For me, it just takes away from the elegance of the weapon. Plus, it doesn't slo-mo like the other saber attacks do.

All I can say is ... don't use it. People (not saying you) complain about the patches nerfing this or that, then complain about how Raven needs to rebalance this or that ...

Personally I use it on occasion, but pretty rarely, as I also think it is not an elegant move. But Kyle is one gritty Jedi, and he'll pull a disruptor (banned, no less) or missle launcher out in a pinch, use grip and lightning, so what's a quick-and-dirty saber toss ? ;)

Mike

Sagittarius
05-07-2003, 10:58 AM
i would like to see things like this:

staff only becomes available for dark peepz, it is described by lucasarts as an total offensive saber and thus not permitted to jedi.

double lightsaber are permitted to the light side, cuz anakin uses em in ep2

Prime
05-07-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Sagittarius
staff only becomes available for dark peepz, it is described by lucasarts as an total offensive saber and thus not permitted to jedi.At least in the Old Republic. AFAIK, we have no idea how it is viewed in post-ROTJ times.

txa1265
05-07-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Prime
At least in the Old Republic. AFAIK, we have no idea how it is viewed in post-ROTJ times.

Yes ... that was before the dark times ... before the Empire ...

Mike

Prime
05-07-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by txa1265
Yes ... that was before the dark times ... before the Empire ...

Mike :p

Solbe M'ko
05-07-2003, 09:40 PM
That's another thing! BEFORE THE EMPIRE. Vader wiped out all but one jedi, so I can't understand where all the new padawans are coming from, I mean sure, some of them, like the dude in "Truce at Bakura" had force powers but weren't jedi, but... well I just hope there aren't too many of 'em that's all.

[Admin's Note: Please use the EDIT button to edit messages, and limit double posting. Thank you[/B]

Agen
05-07-2003, 10:06 PM
On topic post :D :
I Think we might be forced to take one of the other but reserve the right to use your single blade at anytime you want :)

PS: The edit button give you the ability to add more onto your message btw ;)

Solbe M'ko
05-08-2003, 12:32 AM
Yeah, I know. Sorry.

I think that the new saber styles should have more defense, but should have more specialized offense. For example, your combos should leave you move vulnerable if you miss, or the twin sabers would be better against one enemy and the staff better against multiple baddies.

HertogJan
05-08-2003, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
On topic post :D :
I Think we might be forced to take one of the other but reserve the right to use your single blade at anytime you want :)

PS: The edit button give you the ability to add more onto your message btw ;)

Oh I think we won't have to choose between double bladed and dual sabers, but we get to use them both...

Prime
05-08-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
Oh I think we won't have to choose between double bladed and dual sabers, but we get to use them both... I suspect this is the way it will be. At least I hope so.

Agen
05-08-2003, 04:19 PM
I don't think i see any problems in sp with the sabers... but in mp i may be worried about balace issues, there has to be some disadvantages, i mean with Maul you could jsut tell that he got his robes caught about 25 times.

I think in MP you should only be able to choose between a Dual +single or a Staff + single. Then that'll add to the tactical choices like force powers... we just don't one being overused compared to the other.

StormHammer
05-08-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
I think in MP you should only be able to choose between a Dual +single or a Staff + single. Then that'll add to the tactical choices like force powers... we just don't one being overused compared to the other.

I agree with you. In fact, I'd go one further and make it so you can only select one type of saber...single, dual, or the staff in MP. They should ensure they are all properly balanced anyway....

txa1265
05-08-2003, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
I agree with you. In fact, I'd go one further and make it so you can only select one type of saber...single, dual, or the staff in MP. They should ensure they are all properly balanced anyway....

Isn't 'dual sabers' necessarily a superset of a single saber ... ?

I'm not sure how to deal with it in MP - perhaps you are forced to choose one, two or staff. In SP I'd like to see it limited by carrying capacity. You could have two sabers and a staff ... and no other ranged weapons. Or two sabers and one ranged weapons. And so on.

Mike

Solbe M'ko
05-08-2003, 08:33 PM
Yeah, but what about saber only? They should just PROPERLY balance all the different types.

SeanTB123
05-10-2003, 03:40 AM
I think the best way to handle it in multiplayer is to create a seperate criteria in the Force Selection that says something along the lines of "saber proficiency".

You'd have to allot extra force points to use a staff or twin sabers. Pretty simple, and I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but it seems to be the best solution.

Jolts
05-10-2003, 10:38 AM
The preview in computer gaming world says you choose between one of the 3 types of saber when you create your character and start the game. Then again they also said the player models poly count in JO was 10,000 polys and would be double that in JKA.

MattJedi
05-11-2003, 03:19 AM
Hey Sean I mentioned that very thing in another thread and I think its the best way to do it. If you are gonna use a staff you will require much more saber combat proficiency and so it will require more points, (same goes for weilding two sabers) and so those points being spent there will leave you with less points to distribute for other force powers that would be just as usefull.

However two sabers would require the most proficiency, your dealing with a weapon in each hand, more independance and accuracy is required. Being able to use push and pull with this stance doesnt seem likely unless you can push and pull with a saber in your hand which seems cool enough.

On the other hand this might not be a good way to balance the game, force powers are one thing but saber combat is pretty much the core and as long as you can kill with your saber, force powers really don't allow you to kill someone as efficiently, the force is more of a jedis assist. Unless of course you resort to continuasly griping and tossing the double saber people off of cliffs. Then again there is gonna be a lot more powers to choose from so who knows.

Andy867
05-11-2003, 03:16 PM
But remember what Obi-wan said,"The Force controls your actions."
Luke: You mean it controls what I do.
Obi-wan: Yes, but it also obeys your commands.

So, the force does have something to do with it. I mean, in Jedi Outcast, the ability to deflect blasters was control base Saber Force Defense, which some servers had turned off every now and then. So, even the saber obeys the will of the Force.

Kurgan
05-13-2003, 05:55 PM
Couple of things...

-Sidenote- Darth Maul used sythetic crystals to build his lightstaff

According to the Official timeline (SOTE) Luke used synthetic crystals to build his green lightsaber.

A lightstaff would be possible to throw (and in fact, Luke throws one at some Imperial Guardsmen in A New Hope Infinities). Not only in the manner he does it (tosses it straight forward, no spin) but a person could throw it with blades off, and then "ignite" both blades with the force as it gets within range of his enemy, then turn the blades off as it returns again (or have it return to his grip up high or something, without spinning).

I would also like to point out to those complaining about the power of JK2's saber throw in SP, there were many situations against saber wielding enemies, bosses, etc that the saber throw greatly weakened... considering those opponents could KNOCK IT OUT OF FLIGHT and onto the ground, forcing you to run over to it (practically defenseless) and pick it up again. If you didn't cheat, the saber throw was NOT all power-ful, and it was used for certain puzzles.

If you want an example from the official timeline, in Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" (correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't his Thrawn trilogy the most respected EU source in existence? probably becuase he was the "first" after GL gave the go ahead to make new material, but I'm getting off track) Luke throws his saber and controls it so it cuts a whole gang of Noghri attacking him, in half. Pretty impressive. ; )


double lightsaber are permitted to the light side, cuz anakin uses em in ep2

As was said above, Boc (the twi'lek), a Dark Jedi, used two lightsabers in Jedi Knight.

Kurgan
05-13-2003, 06:17 PM
Let me start off by saying this is SPECULATION ON MY PART and not official info by any means.

I can forsee a few logical ways to do the lightstaff/dualsabers/single saber thing in MP and keep it balanced....


That is to make it so that everybody who is a Jedi starts with a lone normal saber (despite your blade color or hilt, they behave the same). The Lightstaff is a WEAPON PICKUP (like the st rifle or heavy repeater, etc). Meaning you have to go get it, and if you die, you drop it, etc.

This would easily solve the problem. The double lightsaber could be handled the same way (having a single lightsaber lying on the ground, you pick it up, boom... sabers akimbo). Or they could make it so you have to "steal" a lightsaber from another Jedi (say, after a missed throw, or after you kill him in a duel) to get a second one (similar to how you could get a second Enforcer pistol in Unreal Tournament).

Just some ideas.... it wouldn't be that hard, and they could be made superior to the original saber, without any problem.

I mean nobody complains that an ST rifle is unfair, because it is superior to the Bryar pistol you start with.

Another method they could use, is one similar to what Artifex proposed in ProMod... just have it use up extra Force Points to use a second saber or staff. Thus you have a more powerful melee weapon, but you have fewer points to spend on other things. Whereas people could just stick with a normal saber and have more points to allocate to enhancing their other powers/skills.

They could also make it so that it would be "easy" (however you want to do it) knock the second saber out of their hands or break the staff in two (putting them back to one saber again... this would work with the "pickup" solution), if further nerfing was needed. Though this might unnecessarily complicate things in MP....

And finally, the solution I think would not be so great, but could work, is that the dual saber/staff saber could be a POWERUP (meaning you pick it up, turn it on, and then it wears off after a certain amount of time)... say your new weapon fizzles out or breaks after that time is up, putting you back to your regular saber. Then it could be more powerful, and not use up force points, but still maintain balance.

Prime
05-14-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
I would also like to point out to those complaining about the power of JK2's saber throw in SP, there were many situations against saber wielding enemies, bosses, etc that the saber throw greatly weakened... considering those opponents could KNOCK IT OUT OF FLIGHT and onto the ground, forcing you to run over to it (practically defenseless) and pick it up again. If you didn't cheat, the saber throw was NOT all power-ful, and it was used for certain puzzles.I'd be happy if the MP version of the saber throw was similar to SP. At least then it has a bigger drawback, especially as far as spamming is concerned.

Kurgan
05-15-2003, 08:13 PM
Looks like they will have the dual lightsabers and doublesaber combined.... but that still doesn't answer how it will be balanced in MP. I'll look forward to hearing about that...

Prime
05-16-2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Looks like they will have the dual lightsabers and doublesaber combined.... but that still doesn't answer how it will be balanced in MP. I'll look forward to hearing about that... I suspect the only real difference will be in the animations and special moves. Other than that, attack will be attack, and so on. Perhaps the differences will just be for show.

BrodieCadden
05-16-2003, 05:36 AM
"While using the more eclectic lightsabers sounds cool, there are some drawbacks. While you gain a slight advantage with the staff lightsaber since you can attack enemies behind you, you won't be able to use force powers that require your hands at all. You're also limited a bit if you dual-wield lightsabers. Again, you won't be able to use force powers that require free hands. What you will be able to do though is force throw one of your lightsabers at some poor fool while still swinging away with the other. When asked whether you could sheath one of your sabers to use your force powers in the game, producer Brett Tosti said it wasn't in the game, but did say it's something they might consider"

--IGN Hands On.

Hope that helps. :)

Prime
05-16-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by BrodieCadden
"While using the more eclectic lightsabers sounds cool, there are some drawbacks. While you gain a slight advantage with the staff lightsaber since you can attack enemies behind you, you won't be able to use force powers that require your hands at all. You're also limited a bit if you dual-wield lightsabers. Again, you won't be able to use force powers that require free hands. What you will be able to do though is force throw one of your lightsabers at some poor fool while still swinging away with the other. When asked whether you could sheath one of your sabers to use your force powers in the game, producer Brett Tosti said it wasn't in the game, but did say it's something they might consider"

--IGN Hands On.

Hope that helps. :) Wow. That's interesting. All the more reaosn for me to stick with my single lightsaber.

But should Force powers really require the use of hands (like force push, mind trick, and so on)? I always thought they were just a visual clue for audiences to know that the Force was being used, as opposed to it being an actual requirement for the Force power to work.

HertogJan
05-16-2003, 03:35 PM
They don't say WHICH forcepowers you can't use... I think it'll be push, pull, grip, lightning, drain, mindtrick and that's it... Meaning you can't use any offensive powers... Wel that's weird. A Saberstaff is a real sith weapon, for as far as I know, and you can't use any darkside powers with it...

I'm really curious about how they are going to do it :)

StormHammer
05-16-2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by BrodieCadden
"While using the more eclectic lightsabers sounds cool, there are some drawbacks. While you gain a slight advantage with the staff lightsaber since you can attack enemies behind you, you won't be able to use force powers that require your hands at all. You're also limited a bit if you dual-wield lightsabers. Again, you won't be able to use force powers that require free hands. What you will be able to do though is force throw one of your lightsabers at some poor fool while still swinging away with the other. When asked whether you could sheath one of your sabers to use your force powers in the game, producer Brett Tosti said it wasn't in the game, but did say it's something they might consider"

--IGN Hands On.

Hope that helps. :)

Well, I have to say I have serious reservations about this. If you can hold the dual-staff in one hand, why can't you cast Force powers that need hands with the other? With dual blades, why can't you extinguish one, and cast Force powers? The whole thing that made JO fun was being able to use Force powers and the lightsaber in tandem. So now if I pick up a dual-staff...I can't use some of my Force powers? That's silly. What am I supposed to do...switch to a hand blaster so I can use certain Force powers? I hope they're wrong about this. If it's meant to balance having all the different blades and styles available in MP...why nobble the Force in SP? Even Maul used a hand to throw an object at a door control in TPM, while holding onto his dual-staff with the other hand.

I just don't see that it makes any sense. In MP it might help to balance some of the gameplay (although I would imagine making certain attacks weaker but faster for the dualstaff and dual blades would do that for battles against someone armed with only one saber), but not in SP. :(

ZeroXcape
05-16-2003, 08:22 PM
You will definitely not have to use the staff. It's completely up to you.

Kurgan
05-17-2003, 02:07 AM
There you have it!

Frankly, if what the IGN person said is accurate, I think that's really really silly.

Use of the force doesn't require the hand gestures... it didn't in JK2 (correct me if I'm wrong, but several powers were usable without any sort of hand movements). In fact, the only real use for a hand movement is to indicate a power is being used ON something, right?

Does this also mean that other two handed weapons (I'm thinking most guns here) will limit Force power use (after all, they'd limit the hand waving)?

Even in the movies, characters could use the force even with their hands full (witness Vader tossing objects at Luke in ESB with both hands on his saber, or Luke in ANH at the controls of his X-Wing).

It sounds more like it isn't logical, they're just forcing it for balance issues... I liked my proposed solutions better... but oh well, they're making the game, not me! ; p

Andy867
05-17-2003, 04:01 AM
And look at Anakin during the failed rescue attempt on Genosis. He was holding his saber but still used the Force to throw the inactive droids at the Geonosian inhabitants. But I also think that since the game is still in production many of these possible oversights could be corrected. Cuz I mean something simple as that should be vital in the game.

Solbe M'ko
05-17-2003, 06:02 AM
they're making the game, not me! ; p

That's the worst drawback of all. The players don't make the games.

Andy867
05-17-2003, 07:30 AM
Youd be surprised on how much influence people have on the game. Kenn Hoesktra and the lead programmer pointed out in interviews that the overall postive feedback of the saber combat system is what led to the idea of Jedi Academy. So my guess is that if the saber system failed, they wouldn't have made it as large in JA as its going to be. Plus the idea of an improved Ghoul system, plus better mod support, the ragdoll skeletal system, which was recommended one time or another back last year byt a LF.com member. also with the dual sabers, thanks to Dest and the other modders for that Mod and future mods of its kind. And Tchoucky for the RGB saber system. So, as you can see, gamers do make the game, we just don't really look at it in that perspective.

Solbe M'ko
05-17-2003, 04:20 PM
OKay, yeah.

Anywho... I don't like the idea that the characters will be using staves/dual sabers. Not very many characters in SW have them. Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter (I think) says that Maul wanted a unique saber, so he made one with 2 blades. I guess for gameplay, it adds something, but I'm most concerned about npcs in the game. Since the developers included animations for dual/staffs the bad guys will likely make use of them. I think if all 3 saber styles were balanced, it would be good for the game. I wouldn't mind holding off two jedi with a staff, but I just think it doesn't fit well.