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Toa Tahu
05-01-2003, 06:34 AM
Yeh yeh yeh,I know,JA is a FPS,using the Q3 engine...but seriously,how can you play as a Jedi in the Jedi academy and use guns as a main weapon(guns are the main weapons in FPS)?Shouldn't a Jedi put more importance in his saber?

Therefore:
What shall we declare JA as?

I went with action/adventure because I think we really should be meddling more with the saber now.We no longer are Kyle Katarn,please note.

SettingShadow
05-01-2003, 11:04 AM
FPS. I'm by no means an expert in this area but I doubt an FPS has to evolve around guns.. could be wrong though. And also, in SP I'm gonna use both, well, saber mostly, but I still enjoy picking off a stormtrooper with a blaster now and then. :D

t3rr0r
05-01-2003, 11:08 AM
without a doubt, ja is an fps.

Taos
05-01-2003, 11:28 AM
Jedi Acadamy is an FPS, with some RPG elements thrown in the mix.

Sivy
05-01-2003, 12:04 PM
An action game with a little bit of RPG.. but primarily it is a FPS

taekwondo joe
05-01-2003, 12:19 PM
fps, or tps, for third person shooter

Toa Tahu
05-01-2003, 12:37 PM
But it's Jedi Academy,and besides,the official word hasn't come out from LEC yet,so I'm doubtful...

Other than that,you don't expect Jedi Knights running around with guns,guns being the main weapon of FPS's,since Jedi Knights are trained using the Lightsaber,not guns.....

No offense,please.

Pedro The Hutt
05-01-2003, 12:42 PM
I wouldn't really call it an FPS, concidering most of the game will be played in a third person perspective, and you'll be slicing and hacking the most rather than shooting, so it's eh.... a tps, third person slasher XD

txa1265
05-01-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt
I wouldn't really call it an FPS, concidering most of the game will be played in a third person perspective, and you'll be slicing and hacking the most rather than shooting, so it's eh.... a tps, third person slasher XD

Being a FPS is about more than the camera perspective and the choice of weapons, IMO. That is why I chose FPS.

Your mission greatly involves action-based direct killing of enemies using personal armaments which you observe from the POV of the protagonist. That's a FPS to me. Doom et al use projectile weapons and you look through the eyes of your character. JK games you use a meelee weapon and look from behind the character. Otherwise it is basically the same.

... but game genres are melding anyway, which is good. JA will be FPS, but with some Action/Adventure, and some RPG elements. Not so much that it will interfere with the FPS action to be sure, but it will be a nice addition.

Mike

Mike

Prime
05-01-2003, 01:32 PM
So then what is the definition of a first person shooter? Once you have that, it should be easy enough to decide if JA fits into that category.

But as technology improves and games integrate more elements, the lines between genres will become blurred.

shock ~ unnamed
05-01-2003, 01:54 PM
Descent was a FPS and you flew around in a ship...

Basically a FPS is just a generic term for anything that plays in the first/third person camera angle where the primary goal is *combat.

This is why a game like Tomb Raider is not a FPS. While it has the right camera angle and guns, the primary focus of game play is not to kill everything, collect bigger/stronger weapons and kill more things.

When you go to Best Buy do you see Jedi Outcast sitting next to Ultima Online, Rainbow 6, C.S.I or Ever Quest?

It's sitting right next to Half-Life and RTCW for a reason.

StormHammer
05-01-2003, 03:17 PM
It's the same age-old argument again. FPS is becoming too genereic a term for a lot of games that are on the market, which are now genre-hybrids. For example, both Serious Sam and Deus Ex are FPS games...yet there's a considerable gap between them in terms of play styles.

So...should we just do away with these generic tags altogether...or should we get into the situation of defining them even further. I mean, we've already got the Tactical FPS, among others...

If you looked carefully at a game like JO or JA...well, it's a FPS/TPS/Melee/Action/Adventure with light RPG elements. How on earth can you sub-categorise that?

I think it's enough to put JA in the FPS slot for now...but I do see where the problem lies.

txa1265
05-01-2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
It's the same age-old argument again. FPS is becoming too genereic a term

<snip>

JA...well, it's a FPS/TPS/Melee/Action/Adventure with light RPG elements. How on earth can you sub-categorise that?

I think it's enough to put JA in the FPS slot for now...but I do see where the problem lies.

I think that we should be more concerned about how well the game will play out in SP and MP terms than what name to put on it. It is like the old music arguments - where there are so many categories it is sickening, and each new album or artist is said to 'defy categorization'. Personally, I put about 90% of what I listen to into Jazz - from avante-garde to fusion to bop to thrash, it is all jazz to me - and the rest is pop, rock or classical. Similarly, 90% of the computer games I play are FPS - and the rest are 'board games'.

Mike

PrimoSidone
05-01-2003, 08:49 PM
When i played the game ill tell u what my declaration is

Jolts
05-01-2003, 09:16 PM
Since you have the option at all times to switch between first person and thirdperson, I wouldn't call it a fps. I'm guessing most people will play 70%+ of sp in thirdperson. Mp I would say is a even mix of both.

It might use a fps engine, but its beyond being called a fps. I would call it JPS, since I'm sure every jedi game will have the option from the start to switch between first and third at any time.

StormHammer
05-01-2003, 09:21 PM
JPS? :confused: Jedi Person Shooter? Er...

Nah...I reckon it should have it's own special category...JG

Jedi Game - and all that encompasses.

Heh. ;)

Jolts
05-01-2003, 09:27 PM
jedi perspective

from a certain point of view

jedi point of view

jedi game

just kicking ass in all views

whatever you want to call it, jedi games have their own thing going on by the nature of star wars and what jedi mean. You have to have rpg element for the force progression, you have to have 2 camera modes, you have to have guns, and vehics and everything else classic star warscana.

Blademaster_109
05-01-2003, 09:48 PM
it is defenitly fps.

Emon
05-01-2003, 10:52 PM
It is designed to be a first person shooter. How you play the game doesn't affect the genre. Me turning on third person mode in Duke Nukem 3D doesn't make it a "TPS".

Prime
05-01-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by PromoSidone
When i played the game ill tell u what my declaration is That will probably be the best way to decide :)

Stormtrooper X
05-02-2003, 06:14 AM
I declare JA as the best shooter ever!:vsd: :deathii: :vsd:

:dtrooper: :lightning :dtrooper:

Andy867
05-02-2003, 07:06 AM
From the choices given, my personal opinion would have to say all. Cuz Role-playing usually deal with self-character growing in a story. It's a First-Person shooter since there is element of shooting from just the character. But it is also an action/adventure because at first you are doing routine missions as Jedi Padawan, but then like any typical action/adventure story, you discover someone or some group that is wreacking havoc in the universe and its all up to your character to save the [CENSOR] day. So, I'd say its all 3, because to just pick one would be eliminating 66% of the game elements.

Prime
05-02-2003, 01:22 PM
As long as it falls into the "great game" category, I don't care what genre it's classified as :)

Toa Tahu
05-02-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Prime
As long as it falls into the "great game" category, I don't care what genre it's classified as :)

To quote from you Prime,as long as it's a great game,I also don't care what genre it is.

However,for those who wanted a combination,didn't I add one option there?

If it's designed as an FPS,how come I don't see any First-Person screenshot?No offense.

Anyway,thank you all for your replies,and please reply more.

Prime
05-02-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Toa Tahu
If it's designed as an FPS,how come I don't see any First-Person screenshot?No offense. IIRC, Raven said that the saber was the focus, and you would be using it about 70% of the time. Since that weapon uses the third-person view, that's probably why most screenshots are that way :)

PrimoSidone
05-02-2003, 04:35 PM
Press P, just like in JO

Rumor
05-06-2003, 03:35 AM
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy is a dynamic single and multiplayer action experience featuring an all-new epic story.

notice the bold word.

also since the game is going to be built off of JO, and since the JO website specificly labels JO as a FPS, then its a FPS.

tho i'm really sick and tired of people making arguments on genre's when they truely don't know what the genre's really are.

in any action game you play as a certain character. that does not make it an RPG. if it has action, then its action, no matter if you customize your character or not.

and the VIEW has nothing to do with what genre it is either. other than the first game (Wolfenstein 3-D) was first person it made the genre FPS because it was the first of its kind.

not only do the view and playing a character not determine the genre, neither does the method of combat

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 03:37 AM
I found JO to be sort of a mix of Bushido Blade style fighter and 3rd person action game, but it all depends on how you play/percieve the game.

txa1265
05-06-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
I found JO to be sort of a mix of Bushido Blade style fighter and 3rd person action game, but it all depends on how you play/percieve the game.

It is easy to sub-genre just about any game to death - are Postal 2, JKII, MoHAA and Unreal II all the same genre? But the basic playing style is similar - these are not really RPG's, and they are certainly not strategy - either RT or turn based. They are not one-hit you're dead, no pickup tactical shooters either. They are action games, person-to-person conflict based. FPS covers that well enough for me - no matter that the visceral experience differs greatly from game to game.

Mike

Mero Vilul
05-06-2003, 11:24 AM
If Quake 3 got it's weapons replaced by swords and maces and spears instead of guns, would it still be a FPS? I say yes.

In No One Lives Forever 2 you can put points in different abilities like damage, life, sneak, search... Is it a FPS? I say yes. (excellent game btw, go buy it)

If you replaced the lightsaber in JK2 (JO) with a mace, replaced the guns with bows and stones, replaced the settings and characters with castle-like-things, would YOU call it a FPS? I say yes you would.

Everyone wants Star Wars to be really special no matter what, but although a lightsaber is a awesome thing it don't mean it "takes the game where no game gone before". It's just a sword that's been done a million times in other games, this time the different is that it glows. Melee heavy games has existed many years. But they where FPS.

JA is a FPS and just as many other FPS games today it evolves and mix and blends other cathegories, but it is a FPS.

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 01:06 PM
JO is different, though. It puts an emphasis on the sabers. If you put swords in quake 3, you would just stand there hacking at each other with one move until one of you died. JO is not the same game, not even close.

Rumor
05-06-2003, 04:29 PM
did you even READ what we have said?

the METHOD OF COMBAT

does NOT determine the genre.

Prime
05-06-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
did you even READ what we have said?

the METHOD OF COMBAT

does NOT determine the genre. Um, what he said :)

StormHammer
05-06-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
did you even READ what we have said?

the METHOD OF COMBAT

does NOT determine the genre.

Really, there's no need to SHOUT your OPINION at people. :tsk: :rolleyes: Everyone perceives games they play in their own way, so try to respect someone's else's view, even as you disagree with it. Thanks. :cool:

Personally, I think the term FPS (First Person Shooter) is simply outdated and does not encompass the full range and variety of games currently on the market. BTW, that's my opinion, and I couldn't give a flying...hoot...if it's technically right or wrong.

Solbe M'ko
05-06-2003, 04:46 PM
What would you define games like Splinter Cell as? Action? No. These kind of in-between games should not be crammed into genres where they don't fit.

Rumor
05-07-2003, 01:42 AM
sorry storm but we have gotten the RPG crap shoved down our throats for a long time and get kicked and banned from servers cause are are "lame" cause we actually want to play the game.

as a friend from SoV said, "I am just another person sitting in a virtual chatroom...."

and Splinter Cell is a Tactical Shooter. and yes it IS an action game. doesn't matter if the action is slow or zergling like in Serious Sam.

Solbe M'ko
05-07-2003, 02:32 AM
Nah! The action wasn't the main part of splinter cell (for me). I found the sneakin and the lookin under the doors to be the main idea of that game. But it doesn't matter.

txa1265
05-07-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Rumor
sorry storm but we have gotten the RPG crap shoved down our throats for a long time and get kicked and banned from servers cause are are "lame" cause we actually want to play the game.

as a friend from SoV said, "I am just another person sitting in a virtual chatroom...."

and Splinter Cell is a Tactical Shooter. and yes it IS an action game. doesn't matter if the action is slow or zergling like in Serious Sam.

To me there is a ***HUGE*** difference between 'build your jedi' and immersive character development RPG-ish elements being put in a FPS/action game and going to a FFA server and seeing 8 of the 10 people with 'talk' boxes over their heads, building stacks on each other, and the other two supposedly deuling, but really just in an endless dance of bows and other things like that.

Mike

Prime
05-07-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by txa1265
To me there is a ***HUGE*** difference between 'build your jedi' and immersive character development RPG-ish elements being put in a FPS/action game and going to a FFA server and seeing 8 of the 10 people with 'talk' boxes over their heads, building stacks on each other, and the other two supposedly deuling, but really just in an endless dance of bows and other things like that.

Mike So true.

Rumor
05-07-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Nah! The action wasn't the main part of splinter cell (for me). I found the sneakin and the lookin under the doors to be the main idea of that game. But it doesn't matter. exactly its a Tactical Shooter. it doesn't matter if the action is the main part of it for you, it IS an action game. but it is not the in-your-face type, thus it is a tactical shooter, but a shooter/action game no less. if you don't belive me look it up on amazon.

Solbe M'ko
05-07-2003, 09:30 PM
Amazon! Are you crazy! I stopped trusting the games industry long ago to tell me what kind of game it really is. Anyway, JK is not an FPS for me, I really don't even play the shooting levels the same as I would play, say Unreal 2. As far as I'm concerned, It's a fighting game with a 3rd person camera. Maybe that's because I really only play duels on MP...

Regardless, It's always up to the player to decide what he's playing. Lot's of people say that Rogue Squadron was a flight sim, I said it was more like Shadows of the Empire with ships instead of a dude. It's all in the mind of who's playing.

-PS- Has anyone heard anything about a new X-Wing/TIE Fighter style game for PC? I've been waiting years for that to come back.

Rumor
05-08-2003, 02:26 AM
if they are calling RS a flight sim they need to learn what the genre's really are. RS is no more a sim than Rush.

as i said previously (sorry no big, red, capped, underlined words for you this time =( )

the VIEW doesn't determine the genre either.


tho it makes me wonder if people can read anything that doesn't have those big, red letters.........or at least comprehend it

Solbe M'ko
05-08-2003, 02:59 AM
I'm not gonna change your mind, and you won't change mine, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. (if there was any disagreement to begin with (?))

Prime
05-08-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Regardless, It's always up to the player to decide what he's playing. I usually never give it much thought :)

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Lot's of people say that Rogue Squadron was a flight sim...Then lots of people are fools...

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
-PS- Has anyone heard anything about a new X-Wing/TIE Fighter style game for PC? I've been waiting years for that to come back. I haven't heard of any. But I'd really love a new one taking advantage of today's technology. And I don't want any Prequel stuff either. Nothing but OT for that series!

StormHammer
05-08-2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by txa1265
To me there is a ***HUGE*** difference between 'build your jedi' and immersive character development RPG-ish elements being put in a FPS/action game and going to a FFA server and seeing 8 of the 10 people with 'talk' boxes over their heads, building stacks on each other, and the other two supposedly deuling, but really just in an endless dance of bows and other things like that.

Mike

I have to agree with you. I know I recently went on a server, supposedly running FFA, and everyone was simply standing around watching duel's take place on the Bespin platform - or practicing their moves. I joined in a bit, but I got bored after a while and left the server. I also played CTF recently, and on this one server there was a guy standing in the middle of the corridor with a talk box over his head for the entire 2 hours I was playing. After I'd been playing 15 minutes I joined his team because he wasn't doing anything to help them, and they were losing. That's a bit ridiculous, IMHO.

Anyway...as I said before, different people perceive games in different ways, and personally I don't think FPS is a good enough description for a game like JO, or now JA. That doesn't mean I can't live with it though. ;)

Solbe M'ko
05-08-2003, 08:35 PM
Upon reading this last post I realized, It's all BS anyway, so why sweat it? Oh yes, the characteristic change of heart, will it ever learn?

Emon
05-09-2003, 01:24 AM
Rumor is correct. Keep in mind there are often several sub-genres for each main genre. General genres are things like Action, Adventure, Roleplay. First and third person shooters fall under action. They certantly are not their own genre because all that is different is the camera angle and possibly some of the combat.

Roleplay almost always involves turn-based combat or some incarnation of it, JA has nothing of the sort. Borrowing a few ideas from an RPG doesn't turn an FPS into an RPG.

Solbe M'ko
05-09-2003, 02:17 AM
Yes, Emon... yes. :rolleyes:

Emon
05-11-2003, 02:02 PM
Sarcasm doesn't work when no one knows what the hell you're talking about.

Prime
05-11-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Sarcasm doesn't work when no one knows what the hell you're talking about. Indeed.

Solbe M'ko
05-11-2003, 03:52 PM
LoL! Pure hilarity!
Why should an RPG need to be turn based?

Rumor
05-11-2003, 06:58 PM
he meant the Final fantasy style of play

Toa Tahu
05-13-2003, 07:55 AM
If anyone noticed,in the official site it is written that JK:JA is an action game.

leXX
05-13-2003, 09:26 AM
I think calling it an action game covers all the bases, and if that is what the official site has it marked as, that's good enough for me. :)

Prime
05-13-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by leXX
I think calling it an action game covers all the bases, and if that is what the official site has it marked as, that's good enough for me. :) Who are we to cause a ruckus? :)

Kurgan
05-13-2003, 06:48 PM
Action/FPS with some third person elements. ; )

That reminds me.. I hope they allow us to use the first person saber in MP.. I missed that in JK2.

Rogue Squadron is an arcade shooter. Though it might be more complex than your average rail shooter, its still an "arcade" game, nowhere near a "sim."

Solbe M'ko
05-13-2003, 09:26 PM
FP saber? Yuck! They'd have to clean that whole mess up if they want to include it in MP. Did you ever notice how you can only see your hands in the mirror? Or that you can't do special moves? That needs work regardless.

But that's off topic...

Rumor
05-14-2003, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Action/FPS with some third person elements. ; )

That reminds me.. I hope they allow us to use the first person saber in MP.. I missed that in JK2.

Rogue Squadron is an arcade shooter. Though it might be more complex than your average rail shooter, its still an "arcade" game, nowhere near a "sim."

you can use first person saber (and still roll and do specials, etc. this is NOT the SP first person, but it is very close)

cg_fpls 1

( in caps: CG_FPLS )


oh and you want to know why that is all you can see in the mirrors? because that is what the skin looks like. its really third person zoomed in right behind the head (or almost in the head for SP) but the skin is invisible all except for your hands. well to you it is. but in MP it shows the skin you pick in player or through console to everyone else. (basically you are wearing 2 skins, the one you see, and the one everyone else sees)

Solbe M'ko
05-14-2003, 02:57 AM
They should work on the mirror thing. I wouldn't know how but I'm sure they could find a way to show the player a different skin than everyone else sees.

MattJedi
05-14-2003, 06:37 PM
I think you could just get away with calling it a Star Wars Fps cause well, thats what it is. Or Star Wars action game, whatever.

One thing is for sure it is a first person shooter but there is a few more things that are totally different, melee combat, so action game would be the better term.

Rumor
05-15-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
They should work on the mirror thing. I wouldn't know how but I'm sure they could find a way to show the player a different skin than everyone else sees.

dude did you not see what i just said?

here let me hightlight it for you:

its really third person zoomed in right behind the head (or almost in the head for SP) but the skin is invisible all except for your hands. well to you it is. but in MP it shows the skin you pick in player or through console to everyone else. (basically you are wearing 2 skins, the one you see, and the one everyone else sees)

and besides in SP it doesn't matter because the whole skin issue for mp is what everyone ELSE sees, not you. in SP there aren't other people there to see you.