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BCanr2d2
05-17-2003, 10:18 AM
C'mon guys,

Why stop the discussion about a program that in itself is not illegal. On that premise, better stop discussion about games, modding is against most of the copyright laws. Also better tell everyone to stop using their browser, I hear you can download warez with that too...........

Reborn Outcast
05-17-2003, 10:28 AM
The only reason it's not illegal is because its IMPOSSILBE to stop. Wanna know why Napster was so easily shut down? Because all the files had to pass through one central computer. All of Kazaa files and so forth are done P2P (Person to Person). and since over 150 million copies were download LAST YEAR ALONE, the sheer number of people using it makes it impossilb eot ban. that's the only reason it's not illegal.

Kstar__2
05-17-2003, 10:33 AM
P2P means peer to peer :p

but i have to agree with bcanr2d2 here, as if we all don't know what we can do with it, as if we don't all download stuff from it.

Reborn Outcast
05-17-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by kstar__2
P2P means peer to peer :p

Whoops :D I've always heard it as person to person. :D

StormHammer
05-17-2003, 10:45 AM
Let's not blow this out of proportion, shall we?

kstar__2...as you said, everyone knows what Kazaa is used for. These forums specifically state in the rules...

4. The posting of links to sites that contain illegal material (ie where to get illegal MP3s, warez, etc.) is prohibited.

Knowing that people use Kazaa and other programs for warez etc., I'd say it comes under that rule. Until an Admin tells me any different, that's the way it is.

The simple fact is...you don't have to discuss these sort of programs in these forums. You can just as easily discuss it elsewhere, privately, and then we wouldn't have to keep closing such threads and warning people not to post this kind of stuff.

Kstar__2
05-17-2003, 10:50 AM
that's not what we mean.

the fact, that someone has a problem with a program, and asks about it, is normal, ok?
just as long as he doesn't say: "heh, i want to use that program to download matrix reloaded, or meteora, or tone hawk 4" or somethng, he isn't doing anything wrong.

plus, if we get nitpicking, you could say that the rule says "sites" and kazaa is a program. and he didn't post a link to files ;)


btw, please take no offence, i'm merely giving arguments for my point :)

StormHammer
05-17-2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by kstar__2
that's not what we mean.

the fact, that someone has a problem with a program, and asks about it, is normal, ok?

Yeah, I know...and that's why I didn't simply delete the thread. :cool: Now people know he's got a problem, you can PM him with any help.

btw, please take no offence, i'm merely giving arguments for my point :)

No offence taken. ;)

Darklighter
05-17-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by kstar__2
just as long as he doesn't say: "heh, i want to use that program to download matrix reloaded, or meteora, or tone hawk 4" or somethng, he isn't doing anything wrong.

lol But that's not the point. We already know what people use the program for (downloading illegal MP3's, movies, etc.), so there's no use hiding it by just stating the problem with the program. I'm gonna have to side with Storm on this one, since the rule's been established by the higher-ups, and til it changes we should stick by it:(Private discussion is also an alternative, is it not?

BCanr2d2
05-17-2003, 11:07 AM
If you want to nitpick, he was discussing it on the matter of getting some help on how to fix A PROGRAM, not on how to use it for illegal reasons. It wasn't like it asked "Where can I download Photoshop?"......

BTW Napster is P2P too....

That is taking the interpretation of the forum rules a little too far, to take a discussion in regards on how to fix a program and close the thread. If someone had mentioned something otherwise about it, then close the thread, but this one shouldn't have been.

There are plenty of programs out there that people use that are technically illegal, but not for the swapping of files (there are legal files for software and music that is also on Kazaa - ie their copyright allows for distribution by the person who has downloaded it). But it seems that we all dump on P2P programs, because of Napster.........

Change the rules to say "The discussion about the use, downloading, etc of any program for illegal purposes is banned"

Then again, CD and DVD ripping is still in a grey area, I am not sure whether the DMCA is legal itself, takes a lot of rights off the user, whilst not taking out the right of the user to legally backup their digital property.

•-BLaCKouT-•
05-17-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by kstar__2
if we get nitpicking, you could say that the rule says "sites" and kazaa is a program. and he didn't post a link to files ;)

No, but I did...

//slaps wrist

Having said that, and having read the reasons / ensuing discussion, I too am going to agree with the Mods on this one. If I'd read the TOS properly I'd have known that :rolleyes:

Again, sorry for upsetting the applecart.

B.

Acrylic
05-17-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by BLaCKouT_1138
No, but I did...

//slaps wrist

Having said that, and having read the reasons / ensuing discussion, I too am going to agree with the Mods on this one. If I'd read the TOS properly I'd have known that :rolleyes:

Again, sorry for upsetting the applecart.

B.

Hmmm.....I feel bad for B.

He asked us a question and like fools we shunned him. Just Kidding. I think we should be able to discuss TECHNICAL question of like P2P programs, but not HOW to use it and stuff. I think that would be best. :)

Skate Boy
05-17-2003, 01:39 PM
I think we should just listen to the Admins. They say not to discuss the K word, we don't discuss it. I have to agree that it's for the best.

Reborn Outcast
05-17-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by BCanr2d2
If you want to nitpick, he was discussing it on the matter of getting some help on how to fix A PROGRAM, not on how to use it for illegal reasons. It wasn't like it asked "Where can I download Photoshop?"......

Please explain this one thing to me... what else are you going to do with Kazaa? (And don't tell me, "Use the Web search format." because that's what Google is for.)

BCanr2d2
05-18-2003, 03:32 AM
If you had read my other post, there are files out there that do not have such heavy copyright restrictions on them, that allow for people other than the copyright owners to distribute them.

The fact that 99.9% of files on Kazaa are that of which copyright law is breached, is in no fault of that of the program. It is the user, who has failed to adhere to copyright law, and DISTRIBUTED a digital copy of something to which they have no right to do.

It is just like a car, it is legal most of the time, but when you speed you are breaking the law, now do we go and ban discussion of cars because they can break the law? It is all in the hands of the user as to whether something breaks the law, not the program itself.

Also read my comment in that same response, that the interpretation of the rules has been stretched too far, and that there is a need to put in place something like "Any discussion of programs, or methods for illegal use is banned" rather than stretch one that just talks about illegal sites......

Oh, BTW MP3 is not illegal, the distribution of them is......... Otherwise you could ban any topics to do with music on your PC...

ZBomber
05-18-2003, 11:30 AM
heh, most of the staff on LF use P2P systems anyways. :p

The Count
05-18-2003, 08:31 PM
I believe we should be able to talk about Kaaza, as ok we all know we can get "illegal" stuff on it but you can also get legal stuff aswell, however I agree you can't go on posting here I downloaded the new Radiohead album, Photoshop 10, Jedi Academy, Doom 3 leaked demo etc. as remember Kaaza can distribute legal software aswell, I've seen the DFMOD Demo on there.

Acrylic
05-18-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Count_D00ku
I believe we should be able to talk about Kaaza, as ok we all know we can get "illegal" stuff on it but you can also get legal stuff aswell, however I agree you can't go on posting here I downloaded the new Radiohead album, Photoshop 10, Jedi Academy, Doom 3 leaked demo etc. as remember Kaaza can distribute legal software aswell, I've seen the DFMOD Demo on there.

Theres a Photoshop 10? I have Photoshop 7...

BCanr2d2
05-18-2003, 09:33 PM
There is no photoshop 10, I believe version 8 is out very soon...

munik
05-18-2003, 10:08 PM
What kind of information nazi would not let you discuss p2p? Obtaining illegal materials using p2p is not the fault of the p2p system, but of those distributing illegal materials, and those searching for them. The internet lets people obtain this information, can you stop discussion on that? I would estimate that about 10% of the material I get from other users on a p2p system is illegal.

The p2p systems are a more efficient way to share files with others. Not illegal files, but all files. You could, and still can, access an individuals server to download his files. p2p just streamlines this procedure. If I devised a program that improves data transfer rates on the internet, should it be banned because it enables someone to download illegal programs faster?

•-BLaCKouT-•
05-19-2003, 02:06 PM
Jeez,
Regardless of how you use p2p applications, the fact remains that talking about them on the boards is a no-no.

This is a fact. Deal with it. It may not be how you like it, it may not be right, but that's how it is. It's one of the terms and conditions of using the boards.

The best place for discussion of p2p applications would be the forums / chatrooms of the p2p applications themselves, wouldn't it?

Now let's chill, please.

B.

munik
05-19-2003, 03:56 PM
If it's a no-no, then why not ammend the board rules? How are you supposed to know that talking about p2p is not allowed?

I have no problem with it not being allowed if everyone is forewarned about it. These aren't my boards, so I respect whatever restrictions are put up, however lame.

A simple clarification of which ways you can access another computer, or the interfaces used when accessing another computer, that we are or are not allowed to discuss.

Darth Groovy
05-19-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by munik
If it's a no-no, then why not ammend the board rules?

That is not up to me, my job is to enforce them. So that being said, there is little need for this discussion to continue. Thread Closed.