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View Full Version : Why PVP thought Matrix Reloaded sucked


Bob Gnarly
05-19-2003, 02:21 PM
May 16th, 2003

Yesterday I posted a quick impression of the sequel to the Matrix on the newspage. I stated that I thought the entire movie was crap and that I wanted to leave halfway through it. I said that the theatre I was in was overwhelmingly disappointed with the movie and barely reacted to the film. I summed it up by comparing it to Highlander 2, the worst sci-fi movie of all time.

Then the email started pouring in. No one could believe that I had seen the same movie they had. They were upset I didn't like it. Some people got really mean. Mostly the email offered explanations as to how it was possible for me to miss the greatness of this movie:

I'm not smart enough to follow the high-brow concepts, I bought into the hype, I expected it to be better than the first movie, I need to wait and see it a second time, I decided it was bad before I even saw it, and most importantly....I'm not reserving judgement until after I see the third movie.

Well I got news for everyone...I am smart enough to follow the high-brow concepts, I never bought into the hype, I didn't expect it to be better than the first movie, and I shouldn't have to see it a second time, I decided I wanted to like it before seeing it and most importantly...I shouldn't have to see a third movie in order to understand the second.

I had a violent and extreme reaction to this movie. I disliked it so much that it made me angry (Black Mamba:It literally made me sick...like stuffed nose and sore throat) . The last time I reacted to a movie that way was Phantom Menace. So I'm willing to admit that when I wrote what I wrote yesterday, it came from a place of huge disappointment and not any objectivity. I'll try to be more objective today.

Okay, I'm about to go into specifics, so if you haven't seen the movie, you may not want to read any further.

· The action sequences were boring. There was no power behind them, no consequence. Every fight was just going through the motions. One of the great things about the first movie was that during a fight, the opponents surprised one another, there was a sense of urgency about the conflicts. In this movie, the fights are pointless, long and boring. They go no where and serve no purpose. They don't move the story forward or have anything hanging on their outcome.

· The effects were too dependant on CGI. Once again, we are forced to eat this crappy CGI. The film-makers now have the budget and can afford to recreate every person and environment in computer graphics. But once again, they fail to realize that just because they can, doesn't mean they should. In the first movie, the W. Bros used practical but innovative filming techniques to show us something we had never seen before. Why abandon that? The fight with the 300 agents looked like an Xbox game. It had no life to it. The worst part was that they did the slow-frame thing way too often, to the point of annoyance. When Neo first flew into the air, turned and shot back down brining the funnel with him, it would have been more powerful if that was actually Keanu on wires. He could have smiled or winked. Something to give it life and character.[b]

·[b]The plot was so convoluted that it felt like a mind rape. Yes I understood the concepts. I'm not going to dare to claim that I caught everything because there was so much going on at once, that would be impossible for any human to do with one viewing. But there was just too much going on at once and none of it had any real weight or power to it. The movie never slows down enough to get interesting until Neo enters the Source and encounters the Architect but by then the movie is over and I've sat through 2 hours of boring fight scenes and horrible dialogue, so I don't care.

Most of the concepts in this movie are delivered with such a heavy hand that it's insulting. That's why I got so upset when some of you claimed I was too dumb to catch them. They practically slap you across the face with them. There's no possible way you can miss them. I know that there is another movie coming and that more will be explained, but it's bad film-making to have the third movie of a trilogy be dependant upon you understanding or enjoying the second one. It's bull**** to force me to sit through 2 hours of crap just so I'm set up for the finale.

·Speaking of bad film-making, the editing on this movie was horrible. It was all over the place and added another layer of complexity to an already overly complex movie. There was part of the movie where they inter cut three scenes into each other, going back and forth in time. The gathering of the captains to plan the attack on the power plants, the actual attack with Niobe's team, and Neo asking Trinity not to join them for the attack. Cut, cut, cut, back and forth....it was jarring. What could have been three powerful scenes were robbed of all their substance by pulling you out of them just when they would get good. Really horrible.

·Zion looked like a bad 70's movie. It was beneath the Planet of the Apes. The 30 minute rave and love scene was overbearing and gratuitous, not to mention heavy handed. The council chambers looked like a bad Star Trek episode.

· The movie felt like a video game based on the first movie. Level one, FIGHT! Cut scene. Level 2, FIGHT!, cut scene. Level 3, FIGHT. Find the Keymaker. Level 4, the car chase level. Cut scene. Level 5, FIGHT, enter the source. Beat the boss. End credits.

I was ultimately disappointed because the second movie did not pick up where the first movie left off. Instead, RELOADED abandoned the first movie for a new direction. At the end of the first movie, Neo is confident, he's the savior, he's the one. He's going to show the world that they are not bound by what they conceive to be reality. He's not going to unhook everyone, because that would be impossible, but he's going to wake them up inside the Matrix. He's not here to end things, but start a new beginning and possibly, a new coexistence.

At the beginning of RELOADED, Neo is back to being unsure. He can fly now and he's a better fighter than most of the other rebels, but he has no purpose, he has no plan. In fact, he mentions on several occasions that he wishes he knew what he should do. They never explain what happened to shatter his confidence. According to Reloaded, the speech on the phone was nothing more than delusions of grandeur because all he's done is help pull more people out of the Matrix.

Morpheus goes from being a revered figure to being a joke. Apparently he doesn't even have enough followers to refill his crew roster. In the first movie there were six people on the ship besides Morpheus and Neo. Now it's the four of them? Why?

At the end of the first movie, Neo had transcended beyond simple bending of the Matrix. He was aware, he was a part of it. He could manipulate the world around him. He was so enlightened that the ultra fast blur attacks of the agents were nothing but slow motion to him. He could stop them, literally, with one arm behind his back. Now all he seems capable of doing is punch, block, kick, block, jump, block, run away. Or, actually, fly away. He can fly now. At the end of the first movie, his flight was an indication that Neo had stopped thinking in terms of the physical and was now free of all bonds of reality. In RELOADED, flight is just a cool means of transportation.

Now some of you will say "Scott, no movie could live up to what you imagined happened to Neo after the first movie." I'm not sure if that's true or not. But it certainly is something the W. Bros should have considered before making these movies. Instead, I felt more like they were trying to distract me during the entire movie from realizing it was bad.It was chaotic, and overstuffed with pointless fight scenes and exposition that had style but no substance. They slow down only once, to end the movie and hit you with a cliffhanger.

I hope this rant satisfies those who wanted further explanation as to why I disliked the movie.

- http://www.pvponline.com/rants.php3

I agree with everything in bold and italics, dont flame if you dont agree

ZBomber
05-19-2003, 02:30 PM
· The movie felt like a video game based on the first movie. Level one, FIGHT! Cut scene. Level 2, FIGHT!, cut scene. Level 3, FIGHT. Find the Keymaker. Level 4, the car chase level. Cut scene. Level 5, FIGHT, enter the source. Beat the boss. End credits.

I fully agree with that.

HertogJan
05-19-2003, 02:46 PM
Well as I said before, I'm really in doubt whether I should like this movie or not... Yeah some of the fights seemd pointless, and I expected Neo to be more powerfull, but on the other hand it all did look great!! And the more I think about the story and the questions it came up with, the more I like the movie.

But it didn't live up to my expectations, even though I realized the Matrix could hardly be improved upon. Still, I don't think you should classify this movie as a bad one, sure it wasn't as great as part I, sure the pace was too slow in the beginning and too fast in the end, but I enjoyed watching it, although the plot gave me a serious headache :(


Oh and I think this thread will, as many other ones, be merged with THE matrix reloaded thread here :)

Bob Gnarly
05-19-2003, 02:46 PM
this is the stuf hes talking about

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20030513.gif

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20030512.gif

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20030514.gif

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20030515.gif

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20030516.gif

ET Warrior
05-19-2003, 03:21 PM
hmm, well, everyone can have their opinion. I personally loved the movie....but that's me.

Jared
05-19-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Black Mamba
May 16th, 2003

Yesterday I posted a quick impression of the sequel to the Matrix on the newspage. I stated that I thought the entire movie was crap and that I wanted to leave halfway through it. I said that the theatre I was in was overwhelmingly disappointed with the movie and barely reacted to the film. I summed it up by comparing it to Highlander 2, the worst sci-fi movie of all time.

Then the email started pouring in. No one could believe that I had seen the same movie they had. They were upset I didn't like it. Some people got really mean. Mostly the email offered explanations as to how it was possible for me to miss the greatness of this movie:

I'm not smart enough to follow the high-brow concepts, I bought into the hype, I expected it to be better than the first movie, I need to wait and see it a second time, I decided it was bad before I even saw it, and most importantly....I'm not reserving judgement until after I see the third movie.

Well I got news for everyone...I am smart enough to follow the high-brow concepts, I never bought into the hype, I didn't expect it to be better than the first movie, and I shouldn't have to see it a second time, I decided I wanted to like it before seeing it and most importantly...I shouldn't have to see a third movie in order to understand the second.

I had a violent and extreme reaction to this movie. I disliked it so much that it made me angry (Black Mamba:It literally made me sick...like stuffed nose and sore throat) . The last time I reacted to a movie that way was Phantom Menace. So I'm willing to admit that when I wrote what I wrote yesterday, it came from a place of huge disappointment and not any objectivity. I'll try to be more objective today.

Okay, I'm about to go into specifics, so if you haven't seen the movie, you may not want to read any further.

· The action sequences were boring. There was no power behind them, no consequence. Every fight was just going through the motions. One of the great things about the first movie was that during a fight, the opponents surprised one another, there was a sense of urgency about the conflicts. In this movie, the fights are pointless, long and boring. They go no where and serve no purpose. They don't move the story forward or have anything hanging on their outcome.

· The effects were too dependant on CGI. Once again, we are forced to eat this crappy CGI. The film-makers now have the budget and can afford to recreate every person and environment in computer graphics. But once again, they fail to realize that just because they can, doesn't mean they should. In the first movie, the W. Bros used practical but innovative filming techniques to show us something we had never seen before. Why abandon that? The fight with the 300 agents looked like an Xbox game. It had no life to it. The worst part was that they did the slow-frame thing way too often, to the point of annoyance. When Neo first flew into the air, turned and shot back down brining the funnel with him, it would have been more powerful if that was actually Keanu on wires. He could have smiled or winked. Something to give it life and character.[b]

·[b]The plot was so convoluted that it felt like a mind rape. Yes I understood the concepts. I'm not going to dare to claim that I caught everything because there was so much going on at once, that would be impossible for any human to do with one viewing. But there was just too much going on at once and none of it had any real weight or power to it. The movie never slows down enough to get interesting until Neo enters the Source and encounters the Architect but by then the movie is over and I've sat through 2 hours of boring fight scenes and horrible dialogue, so I don't care.

Most of the concepts in this movie are delivered with such a heavy hand that it's insulting. That's why I got so upset when some of you claimed I was too dumb to catch them. They practically slap you across the face with them. There's no possible way you can miss them. I know that there is another movie coming and that more will be explained, but it's bad film-making to have the third movie of a trilogy be dependant upon you understanding or enjoying the second one. It's bull**** to force me to sit through 2 hours of crap just so I'm set up for the finale.

·Speaking of bad film-making, the editing on this movie was horrible. It was all over the place and added another layer of complexity to an already overly complex movie. There was part of the movie where they inter cut three scenes into each other, going back and forth in time. The gathering of the captains to plan the attack on the power plants, the actual attack with Niobe's team, and Neo asking Trinity not to join them for the attack. Cut, cut, cut, back and forth....it was jarring. What could have been three powerful scenes were robbed of all their substance by pulling you out of them just when they would get good. Really horrible.

·Zion looked like a bad 70's movie. It was beneath the Planet of the Apes. The 30 minute rave and love scene was overbearing and gratuitous, not to mention heavy handed. The council chambers looked like a bad Star Trek episode.

· The movie felt like a video game based on the first movie. Level one, FIGHT! Cut scene. Level 2, FIGHT!, cut scene. Level 3, FIGHT. Find the Keymaker. Level 4, the car chase level. Cut scene. Level 5, FIGHT, enter the source. Beat the boss. End credits.

I was ultimately disappointed because the second movie did not pick up where the first movie left off. Instead, RELOADED abandoned the first movie for a new direction. At the end of the first movie, Neo is confident, he's the savior, he's the one. He's going to show the world that they are not bound by what they conceive to be reality. He's not going to unhook everyone, because that would be impossible, but he's going to wake them up inside the Matrix. He's not here to end things, but start a new beginning and possibly, a new coexistence.

At the beginning of RELOADED, Neo is back to being unsure. He can fly now and he's a better fighter than most of the other rebels, but he has no purpose, he has no plan. In fact, he mentions on several occasions that he wishes he knew what he should do. They never explain what happened to shatter his confidence. According to Reloaded, the speech on the phone was nothing more than delusions of grandeur because all he's done is help pull more people out of the Matrix.

Morpheus goes from being a revered figure to being a joke. Apparently he doesn't even have enough followers to refill his crew roster. In the first movie there were six people on the ship besides Morpheus and Neo. Now it's the four of them? Why?

At the end of the first movie, Neo had transcended beyond simple bending of the Matrix. He was aware, he was a part of it. He could manipulate the world around him. He was so enlightened that the ultra fast blur attacks of the agents were nothing but slow motion to him. He could stop them, literally, with one arm behind his back. Now all he seems capable of doing is punch, block, kick, block, jump, block, run away. Or, actually, fly away. He can fly now. At the end of the first movie, his flight was an indication that Neo had stopped thinking in terms of the physical and was now free of all bonds of reality. In RELOADED, flight is just a cool means of transportation.

Now some of you will say "Scott, no movie could live up to what you imagined happened to Neo after the first movie." I'm not sure if that's true or not. But it certainly is something the W. Bros should have considered before making these movies. Instead, I felt more like they were trying to distract me during the entire movie from realizing it was bad.It was chaotic, and overstuffed with pointless fight scenes and exposition that had style but no substance. They slow down only once, to end the movie and hit you with a cliffhanger.

I hope this rant satisfies those who wanted further explanation as to why I disliked the movie.

- http://www.pvponline.com/rants.php3

I agree with everything in bold and italics, dont flame if you dont agree

duude.....I dunno what you're on...
I dunno what it is, but reading this pisses me off....but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I heard it sucked and then saw it, at even thinking it might suck, It was the best sequel I have EVER seen. I dunno; the only people I knew who didnt like it were some spoiled group of rich kids I know. Oh yea, and they got jumped:D
anyways I dunno why you don't like it....but whatever.
*swears* its not like you could have done any better.
Damn critics...think you are better than everyone.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

-=ReApEr=-
05-19-2003, 03:33 PM
I personally haven't seen the movie yet. Im seeing it this week, but once i do. I will post my views on the film straight away. :)

Azrael
05-19-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Black Mamba
http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20030514.gif


That guy with the pontail and sunglasses is soo me. I can't believe how many times I've used the line in panel three. Why, oh, why. But, I can't judge. I haven't seen the movie. However, I'm an American, so I've created an opinion of the movie without even seeing it.

Thrackan Solo
05-19-2003, 05:31 PM
Zion was a little dissapointing:(

-=DarkZero=-
05-19-2003, 05:58 PM
Hey look at the bright sude, atleast the orcal lived up to her job, offering neo food XD

Darth Groovy
05-19-2003, 06:32 PM
I really enjoyed it. For me the movie was one big circus ride, and I even let out a few screams from time to time. I am not a big Matrix buff or anything, but they are fun to see on the big screen. The only thing I like about this thread, is that it is nice to see another movie other than a Star Wars Prequal under so much attack.;)

Viewers are just so predictable these days.

HertogJan
05-20-2003, 07:10 AM
TK-421, that's what the reviewer was talking about; all the ppl being so hostile to him because he didn't like the movie...

I agree with a lot of points he made, but overall I like the movie too. Everyone is entitled their own opinion and I can understand critics don't like the movie, there are some major flaws after all. But I must say that stating this is 'the worst sci-fi sequel ever' doesn't make it look like you're a good reviewer
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you think that, you must look "Fortress 2" or some similar movie ;) :p

STTCT
05-20-2003, 07:53 AM
The thought put into most movies is insulting these days. I have to give the bros props for coming up with such a unique story line that has millions on the internet discussing it - the theorys - why or why not they didn't like it - what is going to happen next etc. Hell, they could have made Reloaded HORRIBLE. Think back to Jurassic Park 2.... now that was an insult to my intelligence.

BCanr2d2
05-20-2003, 08:05 AM
One problem with this rant, I doubt the content control that Village Roadshow/Warner Bros/AOL/Disney/Time is supposed to have. I am sure after The Matrix, they could almost write their own cheques. To say that AOL Time Warner (At least get the parent company right) had content control, and could've done a better job is like saying EA should've done a better job with The Sims - They are just the distributor, not the developer(director in movies).
Oh, and for those that actually bothered to look at one of the original websites given officially for The Matrix was thematrixtrilogy.com, not whatisthematrix.com, or thematrix.com. It was done like SW, the first movie good enough to stand alone if it was a flop. Many people consider TESB to be the best SW movie, and it is so reliant on another movie to finish it off - that was 23 years ago they did that.....................................


As for the post saying you want no one to reply to it if they don't agree, then why post it at all. To post is to invite discussion, both positive and negative. Don't get naive and expect people not to discuss what you did or did not like about the movie. Remember, this is the real world, not the Matrix...

I think you missed some of the easier concepts to understand, one scene in Zion showed why Neo was so unsure of himself - people see him as this kind of God, I don't know about you, but that would leave you with so much pressure to perform to how they expect. They expect to live because he will save them.....

OH, if you did actually know anything about The Matrix Reloaded, they explained other bits and pieces in The Animatrix and Enter The Matrix. The simple thing here is - GET USED TO IT.
This is the first of what no doubt will be many movies that will use different mediums to get the whole story across. T3 is meant to be using the game line to tell a story that shows some of the plot that they would never film.

You have your opinion, I have mine, and don't be so naive to expect people who disagree with you not to post....

Death_Jedi
05-20-2003, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by TK-421
duude.....I dunno what you're on...
I dunno what it is, but reading this pisses me off....but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I heard it sucked and then saw it, at even thinking it might suck, It was the best sequel I have EVER seen. I dunno; the only people I knew who didnt like it were some spoiled group of rich kids I know. Oh yea, and they got jumped:D
anyways I dunno why you don't like it....but whatever.
*swears* its not like you could have done any better.
Damn critics...think you are better than everyone.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thats what i would say

And WTF u didnt like it!?!?!?!?!?
dude u gotta stop smoking

Bob Gnarly
05-20-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Death_Jedi
Thats what i would say

And WTF u didnt like it!?!?!?!?!?
dude u gotta stop smoking I smoke?

Death_Jedi
05-20-2003, 08:55 AM
im not swearing and insulting you and stuff but it was awsome and i dont see why you didnt like it

and do u not get that?

STTCT
05-20-2003, 09:03 AM
Black Mamba - http://adwoff.com/ubb/graemlins/soapbox.gif

Die hard Matrix Reloaded Fans : http://www.jedibites.com/images/emoticons/pleasedie.gif http://www.steelheader.net/photopost/data/510/893stupid-thumb.gif

Disapointed Reloaded Fans: http://adwoff.com/ubb/graemlins/protest.gif

Others: http://www.jedibites.com/images/emoticons/respect.gif http://opelwerk.com/smiley-project/non-animated/misc-smilies/wtf.gif

Me: http://forums.prowrestlingfans.com/images/smilies/schild35.gif

Bob Gnarly
05-20-2003, 09:05 AM
ahahaaha, yeah ok STTCT......

i only like The matrix Not reloaded

STTCT
05-20-2003, 09:10 AM
Sorry - just trying to lighten the situation. People are taking others opinions to heart. Who cares if you didn't like the Matrix. I'm not going to sit here and argue with ....expecting what?? You to bow down and repent ... SILLY. I don't know why people find your opinion so offensive...or so off the wall. Its okay not to like what other's do. I think its RUDE that people are mailing you mean emails. Even though, I differ with your opinion. At least you didn't just post I HATE RELOADED w/ no explanation. I think you explained why you feel the way you did well.

And hey...maybe if you were smokin you would've enjoyed the movie...the effects woulda tripped you out beyond belief and you wouldn't give a **** about story line!! ;)

El Sitherino
05-20-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Death_Jedi
Thats what i would say

And WTF u didnt like it!?!?!?!?!?
dude u gotta stop smoking hey i smoke and i loved the movie even more when i was high

Tesla
05-20-2003, 09:54 AM
Morpheus goes from being a revered figure to being a joke. Apparently he doesn't even have enough followers to refill his crew roster. In the first movie there were six people on the ship besides Morpheus and Neo. Now it's the four of them? Why? Erm because cypher killed most of them in the first one remember the agents or matrix hired him once he killed all of morpheus's crew he would be put back in,it's tiny details like that people miss ;)

Taos
05-20-2003, 11:07 AM
I really enjoyed this movie and I thought it was great entertainment........I can't wait to go and see it again. :)

Personally, I don't give a damn what any critic says about the movie. Usually, the one's they say are bad are the one's I enjoy.......Tombstone comes to mind quickly. The 'great ones' they rave about all are boring IMHO. Anyways, we are all entitled to our opinion's so I'm not going to care about what some guy is writing.

Eldritch
05-20-2003, 11:13 AM
I agree, Leemu. I'll be seeing it again, most definitely.

Good call on Tombstone, BTW. One of my all-time favorite movies. :D

HertogJan
05-20-2003, 02:13 PM
I gotta find someone who wants to see it again like I do... I really need to hear the architect once more :) Now who am I going to convince that one time ISNT enough?? ;)

ET Warrior
05-20-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Tesla Trooper
Erm because cypher killed most of them in the first one remember the agents or matrix hired him once he killed all of morpheus's crew he would be put back in,it's tiny details like that people miss ;)

I'm pretty sure he know that they were killed. HE is wondering why Morhpeus hasn't filled their positions.

And it wasn't killing Morpheus' crew that would get him plugged back in. It was giving them Morpheus so they could get the codes to Zion's mainframe.


I think the reason that Morpheus hasn't filled those posts is because he doesn't want to have to trust anyone new. Neo is too important to the survival of humanity to have something happen again like what happened with Cypher.

HertogJan
05-20-2003, 03:29 PM
Well there are a lot of ppl who don't trust him and think he's a lunatic, because he believes in the prophecy. In fact, Link only joined them because he promised dozer he would join the crew or something...

But I also believe Morpheus doesn't trust everyone; he wants to be trusted too, as he asks Link several times...