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-   -   End the Palpatine/Clone debate! (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=114120)

Master_Keralys 10-06-2003 02:32 PM

End the Palpatine/Clone debate!
 
While there hasn't been a ton of discussion on it in here, I've seen a lot of theories elsewhere that say that Palpatine dies, and is replaced by a clone controlled by Sidious.

Bovine Excrement.

Palpatine is Sidious. No argument. Unless we want to say that Palpatine didn't brainwash the Senate. Didn't mind control Jar Jar in that scene in AOTC. etc, etc, etc.

I'm interested to see what the ideas on this are around here.

Sivy 10-06-2003 02:42 PM

yeah anyone who says palpatine isn't sidious are just fooling themselves.

at the end of ep I mace says "but which one was destroyed? the master or the apprentice"
then the carmera does a deliberate close up of palpatine.

if thats not enought.. then look at this picture...

http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/i...p2-ia-5878.jpg

The emperors' favourite lazy-boy

Pedro The Hutt 10-06-2003 08:23 PM

That and we nicely see Palpatine corrupting Anakin when he's alone with him. "You don't need guidance" and all that. Deliberately telling him the opposite of what he should do.

Katarn07 10-06-2003 11:11 PM

And that stupid parade music played at the end of TPM is really that eery wailing of the Emperor's Theme in RotJ and part of Clones when Ani fesses to those murders.

And that pic of Palpy in the throne? TOO COOL! :D

daring dueler 10-06-2003 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Katarn07
And that stupid parade music played at the end of TPM is really that eery wailing of the Emperor's Theme in RotJ and part of Clones when Ani fesses to those murders.

And that pic of Palpy in the throne? TOO COOL! :D

i second this motion !

Lynk Former 10-07-2003 12:36 AM

Oh wow @.@ I never actually noticed that until now, that is scary

Jedi_Monk 10-07-2003 07:33 PM

I've never doubted that Palpatine and Sidious were one-and-the-same, but I don't think Palpy used mind control on Jar Jar in Clones, I think he just said the right thing at the right time. Palpatine has Iego's tongue.

Pedro The Hutt 10-07-2003 07:50 PM

I doubt that myself, apparently Palpatine uses a dark Jedi/Sith trick that clouds his strong presence in the Force from the Jedi. (hence why they probably never suspected Palpatine of being the Sith who was rumored to be in the senate)
But even besides that, since it's just speculation, wouldn't Yoda and Mace who were watching Jar-Jar's speech sense that he was being controlled like a puppet?

Katarn07 10-07-2003 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lynk Former
Oh wow @.@ I never actually noticed that until now, that is scary
The music, throne, or *gulp* Palpy being Sidious?

Also, he didn't use mind control, I am sure of that. He was just being deceptive saying Ami woulda done it, so he did it. You don't have to be as dumb as Jar Jar to fall for it.... Bail woulda said something I am sure of that. At the way end of AotC, you see his resentment of the whole situation.

By the way, is that picture from AotC??? I never noticed the throne being there! :eek:

XERXES 10-07-2003 09:27 PM

the chair means nothing it could be a generic office chair for all the senators...and perhaps he just liked it so much that he got it in the death star gawd.

Lynk Former 10-07-2003 11:20 PM

@ Katarn: The Ep 1 parade music being like the throne room music

JediNyt 10-08-2003 05:09 AM

The songs are not the same. The first few notes are similar but the rest is way off, besides the core mood of a song comes from the notes, not how fast or how much precussion there is.

Did I explain that well? Im no expert on music but I know the songs are not the same.

Katarn07 10-08-2003 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JediNyt
The songs are not the same. The first few notes are similar but the rest is way off, besides the core mood of a song comes from the notes, not how fast or how much precussion there is.

Did I explain that well? Im no expert on music but I know the songs are not the same.

Yes they are. It's in the RotJ 20th Anniversary issue of the SW Insider.

Listen to the RotJ one and then the voices in TPM one. Don't listen to the instruments. The children's voices are a faster, more cheerful version of the gloomy wailing of the Emperor's theme ;)

Lynk Former 10-08-2003 09:09 PM

and that's exactly what i noticed... trippy stuff

JediNyt 10-08-2003 09:42 PM

Like I said they are similar but not the same. The notes follow a similar pattern but they arent the same notes, meaning they are not the same song. If you find the music on paper and put the two next to eachother you will see the difference, but its still a nice theory.

Lynk Former 10-08-2003 10:35 PM

of course it won't be the same notes because one has lil kids singing happily and the other has dark tenor voices.

Katarn07 10-08-2003 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JediNyt
Like I said they are similar but not the same. The notes follow a similar pattern but they arent the same notes, meaning they are not the same song. If you find the music on paper and put the two next to eachother you will see the difference, but its still a nice theory.
I don't know much about music (anymore) but know there are more than one scale but the same note just lower and higher.

You can play Mary Had a Little Lamb on a high scale of notes or a low one, as demonstrated in this instance of the parade and Emperor's theme. If that's what Lynk said, than ok.

If these won't convince you, then I'll let you believe what you will because I ain't gonna photocopy the article for you ;)

Jedi_Monk 10-09-2003 12:21 AM

There are more notes in parts of the song, but the cadence is the same. But there are parts of the celebration song that are dead-on, and it's not just the childrens' voices, but also the Gungan brass section. Listen to them back-to-back and you'll notice. I realized their connection when I was listening to the Emperor's Theme on one of the multiplayer levels of Jedi Outcast.

JediNyt 10-09-2003 01:55 AM

I understand what your saying Katarn but my point was that they are not exactly the same song. I know they are similar, I know notes have flats and sharps, but the songs are not exactly the same regardless of what pitch and what precussion is used. Im sure they were meant to be similar, if in fact thats what was said in the Insider. Lets get back on topic.

Lynk Former 10-09-2003 03:48 AM

lol we weren't saying they were EXACTLY the same, we said it sounded like they had some connection cause it reminded us of the throne room theme

grootmatti 10-09-2003 05:56 PM

clones and stormies
 
are clones and stormtroopers the same or what,
(I mean were they meant to be the same,?)

Lynk Former 10-09-2003 11:13 PM

@ groot: this might help you http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...hreadid=109069

Master_Keralys 10-16-2003 03:42 PM

Hehehe. Not even on topic now. Maybe one of the moderators will close this thread. On a final note (yes, a musical note:p) the two pieces of music are simply different arrangements of the same basic melody - that is, one is in a minor key (Emperor's Theme) and the other in a major key and much quicker (end of TPM). This is a classic composer's trick; I do it myself when I write music. All hail John Williams. [someone please close this thread already!]


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