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StormHammer 05-16-2004 03:12 AM

Multiplayer
 
I'll just give a brief outline here of what's known about MP so far...

MP will include the usual vanilla game modes:

Deathmatch
Team Deathmatch
Capture The Flag

According to an article at IGN, there might be a couple of other modes available - but there are no details, and this could be unsubstantiated rumour.

The game will support up to 16 players online (including via Xbox Live).

You can play as Republic commandos or 'other' characters.

There are no co-op modes in the game.

There will be 'downloadable content' after release

There will be 'Matchmaking' via Gamespy [arcade]

And that's about it.

Personally, I was hoping for a squad-based MP mode. I know others would have liked to see a co-op mode for SP (considering it's a squad-based shooter). I know there are sometimes issues around getting co-op to work properly in story-driven SP campaigns, so I can understand the ommission there. However, I would have expected an MP game mode that focuses on the 'squad-based' aspect of the game.

Team Deathmatch can be fun - but it's not exactly innovative. Capture The Flag will probably be more popular, and is at least a better team-based game.

I just can't help thinking there's something lacking. An objective-based squad-based team MP mode where you have to complete a certain standalone mission would have been appreciated. Maybe something like this is planned - but as stated above, the only officially confirmed modes are vanilla MP.

I can see that something in the Counter-Strike style would fit well with this game. Considering the SP missions will include assassinations, gathering intelligence, destroying objectives, etc., the MP side of things really cries out for game modes along those lines.

I'd be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.

Alegis 05-16-2004 05:46 AM

Since it seems that in the SP commanding your team is important, i love to see some Co-op (:() or at least an objectives based gametype there

16 aint that much :\ whats LEC thinking with the limiting in swbf and rc, are the games that bad with too many players?
Quote:

However, I would have expected an MP game mode that focuses on the 'squad-based' aspect of the game.
exactly

Kurgan 05-16-2004 08:56 AM

Recent previews (sorry I can't recall which one, they all start to jumble in my head, either IGN or gamespot IIRC) indicate that there will be NO coop mode, likewise the "other creatures" are Trandoshans.

Does this mean you cannot be battle droids? No word on that yet, but Clonetroopers vs. Trandoshans are confirmed.

I would love to see an Assault/Siege type gamemode with vehicle support, classes and objectives, but I have yet to read about it being confirmed...


Limiting games like JA to 16 recommended players makes sense with all the extra saber combat code that is used to send to clients and the animations, etc. but I don't know about these other games. There's no melee combat that we know of (although RC seems to have "punching" and Vibroblades or possibly both of those combined). Though I'm betting that RC's melee combat will be more the vanilla FPS style "zero range gun" gauntlet/fist/axe/chainsaw variety rather than the versatile Lightsaber we're used to in the JK series.

Did I hear that Battlefront would have "special characters" like Jedi? If these were controllable one might expect melee combat. But on the other hand it may be incredibly simplistically done, since what would be the justification for doing an elaborate melee system when it's only going to be applied to the rare special character?

So theoretically, less detailed graphics, and less detailed data to send to clients = possible to have more players at once.

ZBomber 05-16-2004 09:32 AM

Well, I'm glad that there is going to be downloadable content....


2 questions:

Anyone know how many maps there are?

Will I be able to make A LOT of modifications, like JA, or will it only be a few things?

Gabrobot 05-16-2004 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alegis Gensan
16 aint that much :\ whats LEC thinking with the limiting in swbf and rc, are the games that bad with too many players?
Well the limits seem to be on the console versions, so I think it's probably the consoles fault, not Lucasarts. On Lucasarts official FAQ for Battlefront for instance, it says that the console versions can support 16 people over the internet whereas the PC version supports at least 32. Also it says that while the console versions support 32 people over LAN, the PC version supports 64.

For Republic Commando the decision may also be one of design choice rather technical limit. Republic Commando is trying to show the stuff you don't see in the movies...the things that go on behind the large battles. Republic Commando is more about creeping around and having relatively small firefights instead of Battlefront's all out mayhem. It seems to me that a lot of people get caught up thinking that the more people in multiplayer, the better. I really don't know why they think that...small more personal games can be just as fun. Look at Doom 3 for instance...it's designed for 4 player games. This is actual really good because of all the new gameplay elements that pop up when you have only a few people and lots of shadows to hide in.

StormHammer 05-16-2004 01:16 PM

I tend to agree with Gabrobot on the issue of player limits.

If Republic Commando ends up playing like Call Of Duty, where you are more successful by crouch-walking around and trying to outwit enemies and ambush them rather than simply running and gunning, then 16 players engaged in that kind of combat sounds plenty to me.

I think it would also be interesting to see some doors that you have to blow open in a CTF map, and introduce some more 'tactics' into the gameplay.

As for Battlefront - the only Jedi in the game will be Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader, and neither are controllable. You simply summon them up to fight at your side in certain situations.

moort 05-16-2004 03:35 PM

well either way i think they are just choosing the easiest way of doing things...

there are many examples of squad based games with online co-op mission capability,,, ghost recon for instance.

i dunno what's happened with lec, i just hope that they haven't turned into ea and such..:rolleyes:

El Sitherino 05-16-2004 04:47 PM

Well hopefully with tools being released, someone can spend time on a co-op mod. <_<

moort 05-16-2004 05:12 PM

is it possible at all,, i mean with tools, sdks etc?

Gabrobot 05-16-2004 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moort
well either way i think they are just choosing the easiest way of doing things...

there are many examples of squad based games with online co-op mission capability,,, ghost recon for instance.

i dunno what's happened with lec, i just hope that they haven't turned into ea and such..:rolleyes:

Well, look at it this way...(I kinda hate bringing id Software and Doom 3 up again, but... :p ) Even id Software isn't adding a co-op mode to Doom 3 because of how much time it took them just to balance the game with one player. Vicarious Visions (the same people who ported Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy to Xbox...in fact they did those because they wanted to prove they were good enough to do Doom 3) can add co-op because they already have the one-player since id Software did that. Look at it this way, it's better to have only one-player gameplay that's really good then to have one-player and two-player gameplay that are both only mediocre. With Republic Commando running on Unreal technology and Lucasarts releasing editing tools, there are sure to be some great mods coming out that add co-op among many other things. :)

moort 05-17-2004 08:22 AM

i really hate to see myself tossing rc into the garbage bin after finishing once... hopefully there are very talented modders around... :)

Kurgan 05-17-2004 09:08 AM

Unreal 1 had coop. Rune had coop done later by modders.

I'm sure it could be done, it's just if people are willing to put in the long hours that would be required to make it workable enough.

ZBomber 05-17-2004 09:11 AM

Will it be any way similar to Jedi Academy? If so, I know I'll take a few shots at making modifications. ;)

(Never played Unreal Tournament, well, besides the demo, so I don't know how the editing is)

StormHammer 05-17-2004 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurgan
Rune had coop done later by modders.

Yeah, but the Rune Coop mod crew managed to get quite a bit of help from Human Head Studios in order to get it working properly. I don't know how helpful Lucasarts would be.

Mind you...Lucasarts does seem to be more open in assisting the mod community now, considering they will be releasing the editor for the game. That's something, at least.

Gabrobot 05-17-2004 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZBomber
Will it be any way similar to Jedi Academy? If so, I know I'll take a few shots at making modifications. ;)

(Never played Unreal Tournament, well, besides the demo, so I don't know how the editing is)

I'm not sure, but I think Unreal Technology uses something like an UnrealScript thingy for controlling most of the stuff...whatever it is it must be pretty powerful...I think it might be kind of like Jedi Knight's COGs...

Kurgan 05-17-2004 10:30 PM

From what I remember from the days of the original UT, modding was a LOT easier than with Q3.

So while people from the JA community who want to mod this game will have to learn the different engine (if they don't know it already) it shouldn't be as challenging going from zero to JA.

Or something...

Pad 06-06-2004 01:24 PM

Although Im quite looking forward to RC, Im not too pleased about the way its MP is heading. I mean, SP can be a hell of a lot fun but MP can make a game even more memorable. But if those modes will de the only ones supported Im a little bit disappointed.

Why not include some more gamemodes what a somewhat more tactic play, like objectives or something. Because the current gamemodes only support run and fire in my opinion.

ZBomber 06-06-2004 06:30 PM

Yeh, espicially since this is pretty much a team game, it seems weird their isn't any objective based modes.... espcially after JA's Siege mode.....

Pad 06-08-2004 05:26 PM

Found this:

Quote:

Republic Commando will support multiplayer on both the PC and over Xbox Live. Both will allow up to 16 players to go at it in deathmatch, team deathmatch, capture the flag and a few other modes LucasArts wasn't ready to talk about quite yet.
So this "could" mean more modes are on the way. Curious what theyll be. Assault? Objectives?

ZBomber 06-08-2004 07:01 PM

It has to be multiplayer objective missions! It has to! :D

Alegis 06-09-2004 01:13 PM

Well if they arent sure to talk about it i guess they think they aint working out well and dont wish to give promises theyll get blaffed at later for not holding em... I bet all my gold at least one is objective based

StormHammer 06-09-2004 01:30 PM

Objective based mode...

Objective based mode...

Objective based mode...

*waves hand in attempt at Jedi Mind Trick*

<_<

>_>

What?

It worked before! I posted about making a 'Star Wars Commando' game a few years ago...with a simple uncomplicated interface...and that seems to have worked. :p

Pad 06-09-2004 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StormHammer
It worked before! I posted about making a 'Star Wars Commando' game a few years ago...with a simple uncomplicated interface...and that seems to have worked. :p
Its either that or myself clothed with bombs visting LucasArts :p

StormHammer 06-11-2004 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pad
Its either that or myself clothed with bombs visting LucasArts :p
You mean...that was you?

Hehe...I just found one of the threads I first posted about this 'Commando game' concept in...here.

December 2001.

And here's another...where I specifically mentioned 4 people in your team...here

Freaky... :p

*concentrates hard*

These Lucasarts people really need to make a decent Star Wars RTS game...on a great 3D engine like the one used for BFME....

*waves hand*

adillon 06-12-2004 08:51 AM

i thnk nostradamus just rolled over in his grave ...

i'd like to think that since this is based on the UT2004 engine, and UT2004 has their assault mode (objective based team play), they why can't republic commando?

Kurgan 06-12-2004 06:27 PM

No reason why not excep that it just means extra time spent that they might not have.

Any map makers knows that making a good Siege map is harder than making a good FFA or CTF map, after all.

I hope they DO do an assault/siege type mode for RC, but so far we have no evidence that they are going to do so.

StormHammer 06-12-2004 11:41 PM

Maybe Team Deathmatch won't be so bad, if they can make it like the one in Call Of Duty, with a smaller number of players.

I've been playing a lot of TDM in CoD recently. On servers with lots of people (30-40) it becomes just a mindless frag fest with what I can only describe as 'flocking' behaviour, i.e., a cluster of people just going around the maps in a wave shooting everything in sight.

However, on servers with smaller numbers of players, like 4-8 a side, you see a lot more tactics coming into play, with flankers, decoys, 3-pronged assaults to take a location. All of this without communicating via text or voice chat. It's like everyone gets automatically keyed in to each other. I often find myself automatically taking the role of 'flanker' to work around behind the enemy.

Part of the reason for better use of tactics is that when you run, your footsteps can be heard quite clearly - so it is easier to tell when someone is approaching. Crouch-walking basically allows you to be stealthy, because you don't make anywhere near as much noise.

It just occurs to me that RC could play very much like that - if they can get the map design for MP right. A lot of the MP maps for CoD are very well designed (look at Neuville, Carentan, Chateau, Depot, Dawnville, Brecourt etc.).

That's not to say I don't still want to see an objective-based mode. I think that is key to a game of this nature - as long as you can continually respawn. That's one of the things I really dislike about CoD's objective modes - you win the map if you complete an objective or kill all of the other team. Most of the matches I've watched (not bothered to play) have simply focused on killing the other team to win - so the objectives seem rather pointless.

A game like Enemy Territory I think has managed to get it right. Because you constantly respawn, you become totally focused on the objectives, and there is a great ebb and flow to the gameplay as you try to beat the clock.

Again, a lot of it comes down to some excellent level design, with good choke points, capturable respawn points, etc.

One thing I would say is that I think RC's MP might work best if there are smaller teams (8 a side) who employ better tactics and 'stealth'.

Xirion 06-14-2004 04:27 AM

thats odd that there is no co op mode in MP

ZBomber 06-14-2004 10:23 AM

"Any map makers knows that making a good Siege map is harder than making a good FFA or CTF map, after all."

Which is why there is only like 5 siege maps made......

Xiron - If you read the thread, you would see that there is a chance it is a co op mode, but that it may have not been anounced yet.

Alegis 06-15-2004 08:20 AM

they delayed date, so they may have taken time extra time for it kurgan


Stormhammer; bout cod: so true

adillon 06-15-2004 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StormHammer
... on servers with smaller numbers of players, like 4-8 a side, you see a lot more tactics coming into play, with flankers, decoys, 3-pronged assaults to take a location. All of this without communicating via text or voice chat. It's like everyone gets automatically keyed in to each other ... Enemy Territory I think has managed to get it right. Because you constantly respawn, you become totally focused on the objectives, and there is a great ebb and flow to the gameplay as you try to beat the clock.
it almost sounds like you're talking about America's Army, without the respawning. multiplayer is ONLY objective based, and you win by either meeting the objective or eliminating the opposing force. players cannot be 'rambo' in the game ... that's just begging to get a cap or two in the a$$. you must work as one large team, or a few smaller teams, and keep the lines of communication quick and efficient.

eastcoast2895 06-16-2004 12:04 AM

an objective based mp mode like seige could be very fun with the combination of close combat and action the game seems to have. i think a mode where one person issues commands to a small team of 5 players, the commandos with special gear vs. 10 - 15 players, trandoshans with basic guns and gear would be a fun attack/defend or objective based mode. if a player dies on the commandos, the player can be revived only after a while, whereas the trandoshans respawn a little faster. kinda make a single player level, but all controlled by people.
also i remember hearing a mode in rainbow six that is more like the standard, unreal type fast paced action deathmatch. i think it would be cool to have two modes of gameplay style for the deathmatchs, arcade and tactical.
all wishful thinking.

Jinni Tsurugi 06-16-2004 12:08 AM

ARe you impling that my wishful thinking sucks. CAuse I was wishing the same as him.

eastcoast2895 06-16-2004 01:15 AM

don't really understand that, but i was saying all my comments were wishful thinking.

JBRAA 06-16-2004 09:01 AM

Re: Multiplayer
 
Quote:

Originally posted by StormHammer
I just can't help thinking there's something lacking. An objective-based squad-based team MP mode where you have to complete a certain standalone mission would have been appreciated. Maybe something like this is planned - but as stated above, the only officially confirmed modes are vanilla MP.

Oh I love objective team-play. That's why the game Enemy Territory has cought me. I hope objective's other than opening doors will be inlcuded, like planting explosives, build bridges.

I also hope the MP maps have lots of "micro-warfare" maps, so there are many places to fight, and not only one or two places to fight on a map. Like 20+ micro-places with covers etc.


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