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lauser 07-01-2004 01:46 AM

Okay this is pretty much a thread for shaderED and ShaderED2 errors and a how to use. I like it because it shows how shaders will actually look animated.

ShaderED2 errors:

I just got an email back from James Munroe lead designer for RAVENSOFT. He states that an "unexpected token" is usually a typo.
If the last shader is not closed {} when the next one opens you will get a nested stage.

Now does anyone here know how to get the proper spacing in between lines other than the space bar? I do notice some different characters in some default shaders other than the norm.

Also I know AstroCreeps "Clean Shaders" look funny because he used a different editor to make them.

Mercenary 07-01-2004 03:21 AM

Open up the "clean shaders" in wordpad first form what somebody said before. I just extract the shaders from the assets and I make my own shader list. I'd rather have them exactly the way they are in the pk3s.

Codja X 07-01-2004 08:07 AM

Try counting the numbers of { and the number of } and make sure they match up, otherwise you're going to get all sorts of funny errors.

Also, make sure that you're using the latest version of shaderED - if you're still using the one that came with the JO SDK then there a lot of features missing (GLOW being one) that the JO version doesn't like.

Finally, as mentioned in a separate post, a lot of new features are being written into q3map2 all the time and shaderED2 hasn't had time to catch up. Make sure that if you're using these new features, add them through notepad AFTER editing the shader in shaderED or the editor will remove them from your shader script.

EDIT: Does anyone think it would be a good idea to have the source for shaderED released? That way, when we get new features added through the compiler, we'll be able to add them to the Editor.

Jedi_Vogel 07-02-2004 08:49 AM

Just saw your edit, Codja...and yes it would be, but do we know what it was programmed in?

And as a lot of people like to do it "raw", as they say, would we be able to find enough people to work on it?

Codja X 07-02-2004 09:24 AM


Originally posted by Jedi_Vogel

And as a lot of people like to do it "raw", as they say, would we be able to find enough people to work on it?

That's the problem. If you're skilled enough to modify program code to add the new features, you'll probably not bother and create the shaders directly.

It's just going to have to be a matter of learning the skills to build up an 8 stage flourescant, translucent, animated, scrolling, environment mapped, bump-mapped and specular highlighted shader (that's interactive!).

It's not too much of a problem though - you can do the bulk of what you need in shadered and if you want to try out the new advanced features, the chances are you'll know how to work shaders in notepad anyway.

I think the coding forum has plenty of scripting and shader questions answered, although shaders cover mapping, modelling AND coding. Perhaps a specific shader forum should be created?

Jedi_Vogel 07-02-2004 09:33 AM

Possibly and possibly not. I've always thought a separate SCRIPTING forum should be created, but SCRIPTING and SHADERS are directly MAP related, well, you can use shaders on models, but still.

Codja, you could always contact the original makers of ShaderEd and see if they're planning on updating it and if not, if they could release the source code. To be honest, as they give us quite a bit of freedom with mapping, scripting and stuff, there is no really good reason why they shouldn't say yes, so long as they get the credits and stuff.

OpenSource ShaderEd? We could always START a project...

[edit] I just thought that this is a real possibility. I do have an old version of Delphi (can't afford to upgrade) which WOULD suffice, but I'd need a great lot of help. And my map-learning would suffer. But it's an idea, if there's enough support. Plus I'd have to learn a whole load of Delphi stuff again, unless we could somehow do a web-based one? Just throwing ideas around here...

Jedi_Vogel 07-02-2004 11:18 AM

*bumps this so Codja sees it's been updated* ;)

I'll delete this post tomorrow when I log on :)

Codja X 07-02-2004 11:51 AM

Is ShaderED written by Raven Software? If that's the case then I think it's highly unlikely they'll update it again, being as they've moved onto the Doom3 engine.

Plus it would require them liasing with Ydnar to see what features have been added and that's not going to happen.

Also, the word "project" really does chill me to the bones. Project = work. I'm all for bring ShaderED into our community, but it really would be a LOT of work and I don't i'd be able to contribute anything to it, being as I find programming as dry as bone.

If the source for it was to be released though, i'm fairly sure we'd get plenty of updates from some enterprising coder (perhaps yourself Mr. Vogel). Ydnar could carry on updating q3map2 and whoever is doing the updates could just add them as they come along.

It would be a hell of a lot of work though - demands from angry mappers to fix/update things, knowledge of openGL, video card drivers, whatever programming language.

However, there has to be demand for this to happen. If no-one is bothered about this, then it's not going to happen.

Also, the time constraits - mapping is just a hobby for me and I only get an hour here or there a week to do it. A full project like this wouldn't be fun for me.

It is a VERY good idea though. Ydnar did it for the original q3map compiler. If you can get this project off the ground then i'm sure you'll have nothing but complete support as shaderED works for ALL q3 engined games.

WadeV1589 07-02-2004 01:34 PM

Seen as I always like community projects I'd love to help code a new shadered or work on the source of the original. I can do Visual Basic very well and can do C++ at a more basic level.

I'd recommend (even though it's not as efficient OOB) that using Visual Basic would be the best way to get people interested as VB is so easy to learn.

Then again I'd recommend C++ to get the game programmers involved as games nearly always use C and it's good on your CV...but as you said you probably won't get the shader-experienced people being too bothered because they use notepad!

Codja X 07-02-2004 02:00 PM

Well, whatever happens, I think this may need a new thread.

There are going to have to be a lot of points to be considered even before this project gets off the ground such as:

1) Can we obtain the source code?

2) What language will it be in, failing not being able to obtain source code?

3) Copyright and legality infringements - these need to be sorted out

4) Contact with Ydnar regarding the implementation and integration of new features.

5) Recruitment of people who can actually do this

6) Setting up and getting a homepage for this (

7) How to expand and improve the original

8) Multi-game support

9) Name of project and application (Open ShaderED project, to steal a name of another recently setup project)

(Note: not in any particular order)

There are probably a lot more questions that need to be asked and answered, but I can't think of anymore off the top of my head....

Regarding point 1, it may be best if a team and a homepage is assembled 1st, so when submitting a request to Raven for the code, it'll make it a lot more legitimate and professional

Jedi_Vogel 07-03-2004 03:44 AM

Wade is correct of course, VB IS the easiest to learn, but it's also NOT cheap to get a hold of and I don't have it any more :(

I'm not the best at professional e-mails as I only have to do them VERY occasionally, but maybe someone could contact Raven or ID for a start and just see the chances of obtaining the source code.

As I said, I can't think of a DECENT reason they should say no, especially as they're unlikely to upgrade it themselves.

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