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-   -   Why was Manny a reaper? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=134520)

neon_git 08-27-2004 10:46 AM

Why was Manny a reaper?
 
I'm sure this has probably been debated quite a lot before but you'll have to forgive me because i'm new to the forums. So... Manny doesn't seem to have been a bad soul in life judging by his actions in death so why was he made to be a reaper?

My theories are that maybe when you die it might change your outlook on "life".

Or possibly you are made to forget so you don't spend your time looking back and cursing your actions instead of helping other souls.

i don't find either of these ideas really satisfying so if there are any other theories out there i'd like to hear them

Shuz 08-28-2004 09:37 AM

I think Manny has a good soul but his circumstances in his life may have caused him to do some bad things. He may have had to steal to survive or he accidently killed someone, I dont know. Life is very complex and the motives and circumstances of a persons actions can be even more complex.

Captain Gonzo 08-28-2004 06:01 PM

It's mentioned a few times that Manny is working off a 'debt' at the DOD. I think one of the most interesting unanswered questions in Grim is, what exactly did Manny do wrong in his life to deserve this debt?

The story is cooler for never telling us and maintaining the mystery really. A similar thing that springs to mind is in the film Pulp Fiction, we never see what's in the briefcase. Leaving little things like that to the imagination is always neat.

Ck 08-30-2004 02:18 PM

I reckon manny was a hell raiser! lol He probably seemed a better soul in the game because he'd been working a the DOD for ages! learnt the error of his ways, if ya like lol

JawaJoey 08-30-2004 09:42 PM

I think it's a great mystery, and I like it just the way it is: Mysterious.

He says in the game that he doesn't know what he did. That's interesting, as it implies that he didn't really do anything blatantly wrong. Plus his conduct in the Land of the Dead shows that he's a good guy, he's just seems sad, yet accepting, that he's stuck paying off a debt.

But it's not only that I like the mystery that I don't want to guess why, it's also that it's ridiculous to even attempt to theorize on.

Think about it. What would we be guessing? His entire life? What do we have to go on? He's in moral debt, he doesn't even know why, and it would have been different if he had had a car like the bone wagon when he was alive.

The possibilities are endless! And there is no way to validate anything.

Ck 08-31-2004 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JawaJoey
The possibilities are endless! And there is no way to validate anything.
Which is just why we all love it!
as it's said somewhere above it maintains the mystery of the game. I don't think it would of worked if they explained manny's whole story.

Sally J Limones 09-01-2004 06:29 PM

I like to think that he didn't actually do anything wrong, he was sent to the DOD for a reason. Ie, perhaps, rooting out the corruption? Who knows, this is the higher powers we're talking about here. ;)
~Sal

neon_git 09-02-2004 05:29 AM

Y'know, upon reflection i think i do like it better as a mystery.

but that doesn't mean i'm going to stop asking dumb questions like ... uh .. so whos got a theory on why Glottis is orange?

anyone?

EmTeeZ 09-02-2004 08:54 AM

What? Weren't you guys paying attention to the story? The villains were taking away easy passage through the Land of the Dead from innocent people. Manny was one of those people who received a fate that was undeserved. He didn't know what he had done wrong because he didn't do anything wrong- the evil bureaucracy screwed him over.

Sally J Limones 09-02-2004 06:06 PM

No, that doesn't work because Manny was at once a star salesman. It doesn't make sense that later he isn't getting any sales if he was screwed over from day one.
~Sal

VampireNaomi 09-03-2004 04:39 AM

I always got the impression that Manny actually did something bad, and then redeemed himself by fighting against corruption. I like him a lot better that way.

Sally J Limones 09-03-2004 06:27 AM

Manny says he doesn't know how he screwed up. He could have done nothing true, but as in, he did nothing with his life. He seems the drab and beaten down type at the beginning, maybe that's what he was like in life??
Theories, theories...
~Sal

VampireNaomi 09-03-2004 06:39 AM

Or maybe he did something, but didn't know it. Like... maybe he was in a helicopter and accidentaly dropped a really heavy rock which hit someone and killed that person. In a way it was a murder, even if Manny didn't mean it and never heard about it. The DOD could have decided to be bureaucratic and make him a Reaper because of an accident he didn't know about.

That sounds... silly. :p

Kloreep 09-05-2004 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EmTeeZ
What? Weren't you guys paying attention to the story? The villains were taking away easy passage through the Land of the Dead from innocent people. Manny was one of those people who received a fate that was undeserved. He didn't know what he had done wrong because he didn't do anything wrong- the evil bureaucracy screwed him over.
But... until Hector came along, one would assume people did get their Double-N Tickets, if perhaps with bureacratic, glacial slowness. ;)

Late in the game in year 4, it's revealed that once Hector came along, he hoarded all the tickets he had in the vain hope that would help him weasel his way in to the Ninth Underworld. The tickets he sold were fakes. So, one would assume that if Manny had had a real ticket that was stolen from him, it would have been in that briefcase along with the others... but, no ticket jumped out at him as it would have.

So I think we can conclude he indeed didn't earn a Double-N ticket while in this life.

VampireNaomi 09-06-2004 06:00 AM

Very well said, Kloreep.

Sally J Limones 09-07-2004 04:44 PM

-_- Why didn't I think of that? Grr.
~Sal

El Virus 09-26-2004 03:23 AM

I don't know why but I like to believe it had something to do about ripping off clients on a really big corporate scheme, I think he was what on the FBI they call a "white collar criminal". So I believe that is why he is helping Salva on his cause (subconsciously)

VampireNaomi 09-26-2004 03:26 AM

I am stupid. What's a "white collar criminal"? :confused:

El Virus 09-26-2004 03:29 AM

A person who creats a scheme to get people's money, goods, etc.(called like that due to ther corporate outfit).
PS: you are not stupid, it is not a common term.:)

VampireNaomi 09-26-2004 03:35 AM

Ah, now I see. Maybe Manny was like that, I could see him doing it.

Murray the Chao 09-26-2004 10:46 AM

Manny served the Zombie Pirate LeChuck in CMI, remember?

Shuz 09-27-2004 04:56 AM

Haha, true!

El Virus 10-02-2004 08:06 AM

I also believe he killed someone, I was playing the game again, and I noticed that (on the spanish translation, I don't if on others it does), while Manny is speaking to Meche, he asked her if he had never killed someone, on a tone that makes you believe he did.

VampireNaomi 10-02-2004 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Virus
I also believe he killed someone, I was playing the game again, and I noticed that (on the sapnish translation, I don't if on others it does), while Manny is speaking to Meche, he asked her if he had never killed someone, on a tone that makes you believe he did.
Really? I never noticed that in the English version.

What we have to keep in mind though, is that the English version is the original one. ;)

But anyway, I wouldn't put it past Manny. He was able to destroy Hector without a thought, and didn't he kind of trick Chepito into being captured by the octopus?

El Virus 10-02-2004 09:31 AM

You're right, the english is the original one.
The only problem is that when you talk to Domino, Manny asks him about his past, and so does Domino, but Manny says he doesen´t know what he did to get stuck on El Marrow.

VampireNaomi 10-02-2004 11:26 PM

Yes, that's a problem. If he had done something really horrible, surely he would know it.

Maybe he knew all along that he hadn't been very good in his life, but didn't know what had been his worst deed, the one that doomed him to be a Reaper.

I think Charles Frederick aka MeddlingMonk used something like that in his story "The Sprouting of Don Copal". Just like Manny, Domino wasn't told what he had done. He knew he hadn't been a saint in his life, but didn't know what he had done. read the story if you have time, it's very good.

El Virus 10-03-2004 03:39 AM

I'll surely read it if you say so;)
The fact that they don't say what Manny had done in his life is very good as it leaves it to our imagination like a lot of other things of the game.

anomalousresult 10-06-2004 05:00 PM

I like to think he's much like myself and basically can't be arsed being good to people, like meche was, and therefore has to pay off that debt by being a reaper.

but maybe i'm being too much of a geek in thinking i am manny. to think about it, it is quite worrying, anyway, yes.

basically gonna play through it again tonight. not forgetting cpu killer.

El Virus 10-07-2004 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VampireNaomi
I think Charles Frederick aka MeddlingMonk used something like that in his story "The Sprouting of Don Copal". Just like Manny, Domino wasn't told what he had done. He knew he hadn't been a saint in his life, but didn't know what he had done. read the story if you have time, it's very good.
Sorry to disturb you again, but where can I find the story:confused:

VampireNaomi 10-08-2004 06:02 AM

Here you go, El Virus: the novelizarion & other stories by the same author

El Virus 10-08-2004 12:24 PM

Thanks now I can read them:)

VampireNaomi 12-12-2005 02:23 PM

Sorry to revive an old thread. I thought it would be better than starting a new one, considering that this one is already filled with interesting theories.

Has anyone wondered why Manny was a Reaper, but someone like Nick wasn't? I'm sure we all agree that Nick is a rotten egg compared to Manny. Why didn't he have to work off a debt?

a) Manny's life was worse than Nick's
b) Nick only became truly corrupted after death
c) Nick has already worked off his debt (unlikely, if you ask me; he just doesn't have that air around him and you'd think he might have learned something if he had)
d) something else, what?

El Virus 12-12-2005 06:29 PM

Well, I've been thinking about this for a while (not that long actually, just today), and I've got a small theory about Manny's reason for being a reaper (of course, it is just for entertainment purposes, I do not believe it to be true; and I like the fact that the gamer never finds the real thing out).
Now, due to the appearance of the Land of the Living (if I remember correctly), the game seems to take place on the 50s or late 40s (er, avoid the fact about computers and stuff), specially since Casablanca was filmed around that time (and we all know the importance of this film to GF). Now, what happened during the decade of 1940? the Second World War. Perhaps Manuel Calavera was a soldier himself, and he got killed during the conflict. Since being a killing under soldier duty is not considered a 'sin' or 'bad action' entirely, Manny is not aware of the reason of his punishment in the afterlife.

But, I truly believe that the reason for Manny to be in the Land of the Dead was deeper. Not based on his actions, but on his attitude towards life (such as in Dead like me, you know...).

Quote:

Originally Posted by VampireNaomi
Has anyone wondered why Manny was a Reaper, but someone like Nick wasn't

What do you mean Nick Virago was not a reaper? I always thought he was one.

VampireNaomi 12-13-2005 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Virus
What do you mean Nick Virago was not a reaper? I always thought he was one.

Then we've got a disagreement in our hands. I have no actual proof, but something in Nick doesn't scream a Reaper to me. I always thought he was someone who had to walk. On the other hand, if he had been a Reaper, that opens a whole new world of possibilities.

As for your other theory, it makes sense.

Quote:

But, I truly believe that the reason for Manny to be in the Land of the Dead was deeper. Not based on his actions, but on his attitude towards life (such as in Dead like me, you know...).
This especially is probably the best speculation that has come up yet.

Manny C 12-13-2005 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Virus
I also believe he killed someone, I was playing the game again, and I noticed that (on the spanish translation, I don't if on others it does), while Manny is speaking to Meche, he asked her if he had never killed someone, on a tone that makes you believe he did.

yeah the same tone is in the english version, but i think its more of a use of comedic indifference than actually insinuating that he killed someone, more likely that he's just so used to scumbag clients that someone who hasnt done any killing is a new thing.

El Virus 12-13-2005 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VampireNaomi
Then we've got a disagreement in our hands. I have no actual proof, but something in Nick doesn't scream a Reaper to me. I always thought he was someone who had to walk. On the other hand, if he had been a Reaper, that opens a whole new world of possibilities.

Wait, I'm a real idiot. Forgive my momentary GF-memory loss, but I confused Nick Virago with Domino Hurley :P. It's just that since both of them are YOUR idols ;) , I could not remember who was whom; 'Was it Dom who had a relation with Olivia; and Nick the reaper who harrassed Manny?', that was what must have gone [subconciously] through my mind.

Now that I come to think of your question, it is a strange thing. Give me some time to think about it, though.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny C
yeah the same tone is in the english version, but i think its more of a use of comedic indifference than actually insinuating that he killed someone, more likely that he's just so used to scumbag clients that someone who hasnt done any killing is a new thing.

I never understood the first conversation with Meche/Merche. It got too strange (in the Spanish dub, at least).

VampireNaomi 12-13-2005 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Virus
Wait, I'm a real idiot. Forgive my momentary GF-memory loss, but I confused Nick Virago with Domino Hurley :P. It's just that since both of them are YOUR idols ;) , I could not remember who was whom; 'Was it Dom who had a relation with Olivia; and Nick the reaper who harrassed Manny?', that was what must have gone [subconciously] through my mind.

Now that I come to think of it, it is a strange thing. Give me some time to think about it, though.

Heh, never mind. I doubt anyone can outdo me in being an idiot. Remember how the box has a picture of Domino taking Meche down the stairs? For all these years I somehow looked wrong at it and saw that the woman had red hair and wondered who the hell had made the mistake of putting Eva in Meche's clothes. Only yesterday I realised that what I thought to be hair was only Domino's sleeve. :D

Quote:

I never understood the first conversation with Meche/Merche. It got too strange (in the Spanish dub, at least).
What happens in the Spanish dub? Any examples? Is she called Merche in it?

El Virus 12-13-2005 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VampireNaomi
Remember how the box has a picture of Domino taking Meche down the stairs? For all these years I somehow looked wrong at it and saw that the woman had red hair and wondered who the hell had made the mistake of putting Eva in Meche's clothes. Only yesterday I realised that what I thought to be hair was only Domino's sleeve.

Isn't Eva's 'red thing at the top' a bandana? I never thought of it like that (even though I love red-hair), mainly because they are skeletons (some characters seem to have hair, however).

The box...I lost it...don't remind me of it...



Quote:

What happens in the Spanish dub? Any examples? Is she called Merche in it?
Well, I think Manny calls her 'Merche' in the dub, but only a couple of times.
I'm quite sure that it is the same with the [original] English version. Basically, my problem was with Manuel asking for any excuse just to NOT give her a Number 9 ticket.
"You haven't killed anyone?"
"No, but I could kill somebody right now, if it helps"
"No, that wouldn't help"
Or something like that...

Oh, and happy birthday!, excuse my 1-day delay (and actually, I'm sure that by the time you read this, two days would have gone by).

heiff 12-17-2005 03:36 PM

Regarding Manny's questions to Meche: He isn't looking for an excuse, he's looking for a logical explanation. At that point in the conversation, he's already checked the DOD computer, and seen that Meche doesn't qualify for any premium travel package. He couldn't sell her a ticket on the Number 9 even if he wanted to. But since she should qualify, Manny wonders whether he's missed something, so he begins to question her about things she might have done in her life.

I think this is the point at which the story becomes "bigger", in that it starts to become obvious that there's something awry which extends beyond Domino and the boss.

El Virus 12-17-2005 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heiff
Regarding Manny's questions to Meche: He isn't looking for an excuse, he's looking for a logical explanation.

Yes, but that only became clear to me later on, the first time, as I said, was a tad strange (I have the Spanish version, and it varies a bit due to the translation).


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