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Prime 09-20-2004 06:53 AM

Your Star Wars DVD Reviews!
 
Well, we've been swamped with hype and fanboy whining about the new DVD version of Star Wars. There has been lots of legitimate and not so legitimate nit-picking about various changes and additions. But up until now all these things have been taken out of context because we haven't seen them as a part of the entire saga. Here is a place for reviews from Lucasforum members after they have had a chance to watch these DVDs in all their glory and/or shame.

Just how good or bad is the Star Wars DVD set to you?

Lynk Former 09-21-2004 03:53 AM

*dances around* I just watched the OT Trilogy DVDs, lala la!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

*dances off to watch it again*


I'm not kidding either ^^

Sivy 09-21-2004 03:58 AM

wow, if its got lynk dancing, then i'm excited

:D


i have them, i just need some time to be able watch them.

stupid work :(

Lynk Former 09-21-2004 04:31 AM

In all seriousness, if you complain about the OT DVDs then you're a freakin idiot. SERIOUSLY. When you watch it, you won't care what version it is... just make sure you watch it on a decent system though ;)

Kryllith 09-21-2004 05:56 AM

Haven't watched them, though I was the first in my local Walmart to buy them. Unfortunately I had to get up a 6am for work, so I was looking at 5 hours of sleep if I was lucky. I considered just staying up all night, but I was already wiped out. Shame I've solo shifts today, else I might have just stayed home and slept and watch them last night.

Either way, I guess it's not too much of a problem since they're sitting on my desk and I've a dvd-rom... time to get to watching. :)

Kryllith

Jan Gaarni 09-21-2004 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lynk Former
In all seriousness, if you complain about the OT DVDs then you're a freakin idiot. SERIOUSLY. When you watch it, you won't care what version it is... just make sure you watch it on a decent system though ;)
Yes, you mean like 4-5-6, then 1-2-3, right?

ZBomber 09-21-2004 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jan Gaarni
Yes, you mean like 4-5-6, then 1-2-3, right?
No, he means whether or not cheesy things were added to the movie. :D

Saw ANH, wasn't disapointed.... but that was the least of my worries. I haven't heard Boba's voice yet, but I think I'll be disapointed. I'll have to watch tommarow.

Codja X 09-21-2004 03:40 PM

I watched my old video copies a couple of weeks ago to get myself hyped up and ready for these dvds - the wait was definitely worth it.

The sound and picture quality are astounding and all the fuss about the "changes" is over nothing. All the hoo-hah surrounding the change of Anakin at the end of ROTJ (a lot of it made by myself) seems pretty pointless now - it's a lot better actually seeing it rather than reading about it and it concludes the saga in a satisfying end.

@zBomber - Boba's voice isn't that remarkably different - it's obviously temura morrison's, but Temura Morrison playing Boba rather than him playing Jango or a clone (if you know what I mean). It's something you'll get used to in no-time, and would only really notice if you've been told to look out for it anyway.

It's nice to actually use the dolby system I have to watch the film that dolby was practically invented for as well. My neighbours now hate me:)

The bonus disc is exhaustive AND exhausting. I'm going to have to go back and finish the Empire of Dreams doc - there is a LOT to it.

The only thing that bugged me (but only very slightly) is this:

http://img55.exs.cx/img55/7568/Starwars.jpg

It looks a little green, but that's probably down to the compositing software and that is how it'll probably look in real life (and also the same reason the TIE fighter's lasers are different colours in some scenes, such as near Cloud City).

One last thing - does anybody know who did the inside slip/cover paintings? Has anyone uploaded them yet? The ROTJ one would make an awesome desktop.

See you all later - i'm off to watch my DVDs again:)

Kurgan 09-22-2004 02:17 AM

Well some will say that "you can't judge them until all the movies are out"... I mean supposedly the replacement of Shaw with Hayden's face in ROTJ "will be explained in Episode III."

So we "really" have to wait another 8 months before we can "Judge" the this DVD set by that logic.

Me, I don't think so. If we could judge Episode I and Episode II already, without Episode III then so can we judge these movies on their own merits.

Also, since the prequels make up their own trilogy, and that one isn't complete, that's fine. But THIS trilogy IS complete, so it stands on its own (as it has for the 16 years between ROTJ and the release of TPM).

I don't own the new DVD's yet, but I'll be picking them up by this weekend (barring news of some recall or new editions, heh).

I'll withhold final judgement until I can actually SEE them, but the changes sound very minor from the SE, except the "cleaned up-ness" of the films themselves (which is a good thing). To me the changes (other than Jabba, which was a change of a change) really sound like they're unnecessary. Tweaks that should have been made weren't, but again gotta shut up until I've seen 'em myself, so I'll leave off till then...

Don't start any flame wars 'till I get back! (or even after I get back!)

Autobot Traitor 09-22-2004 03:31 AM

I got and watched all 3 of them last night, and I'm quite happy except with a few things:

-The green and orange boxes from the matte that the ties in ANH have flaoting around them.
-Luke's lack of scream as he falls in ESB. It seems kinda pointless to remove it.
-Luke's green then blue saber in ANH.

Minor nit-picks, but I still love the movies.

txa1265 09-22-2004 04:50 AM

I went and spent ~$140 on Star Wars today - DVD's, Battlefront and Apprentice of the Force.

Watched a bit from each of the DVDs ... wow it makes a pretty major difference. Better than I expected. Way I look at it - Lucas changed everything for me, my friends, and the world in 1977 ... if he needs to tweak things a bit to his liking, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

My take on the Han vs. Greedo thing is slightly different ... I always liked it as it was very similar to the scene with Tuco in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly ... but I have never suffered the religious fervor some do about these little things ...

Mike

Jan Gaarni 09-22-2004 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autobot Traitor
I got and watched all 3 of them last night, and I'm quite happy except with a few things:

-The green and orange boxes from the matte that the ties in ANH have flaoting around them.
-Luke's lack of scream as he falls in ESB. It seems kinda pointless to remove it.
-Luke's green then blue saber in ANH.

Minor nit-picks, but I still love the movies.

The scream is finally gone again? Yes. :)

The scream was never there, I always thought it was pointless to add it. :rolleyes:
I'm glad to hear they took it out. :)

Han firing much earlier this time around, smoothing out stupid Greedo shot. The scene goes so fast by now that to anyone who has never seen the films before SE and the SE before these DVD movies, or heard anything about this before, would probably not notice it. :)

As I was looking thru the Bonus Disc, I cought several times the scene in ANH where Vader strikes Obi-Wan down, and got very disturbed seeing a slightly different, comical infact, way of cutting Ben in half. Thank God they kept it the original way though. :D /phew

I was alittle disapointed that they had not enhanced the sound more, infact I thought it had become quite tame in some places, where in the past it really gave a good punch. Like the opening scene with the Tantive IV and the Devastator.

Overall, there was not much new in ANH from the SE really. Stormtroopers have kept their original voices, they've speeded up the Han/Greedo shooting to a more believable and acceptable preformance, enhanced the Jabba scene, and I thought ... was it me or ... have they sped up ever so slightly the sword fight between Vader and Obi-Wan? It's been awhile since I saw the OT.

Tomorrow: ESB, and possibly RotJ aswell. :)

Can't wait. :D


- Jan, signing off, and going to bed.

Lynk Former 09-22-2004 02:58 PM

Wish they had more time to spend on it though, the video needed A LOT more work, especially for ANH.

The audio needs to be improved as well... I mean there are some scenes when two characters are talking and then suddenly it'd go from sounding like "live" to "recorded" and then back. You shouldn't be able to notice things like that.

Achilles 09-22-2004 03:28 PM

Watched ANH last night and was immediately impressed with the image quality. It seems pretty obvious that they put a lot of effort into making the movie look clean and crisp.

Had to rewatch the Greedo scene a few times before I noticed a difference. It's still choppy but not as bad as before.

The Han/Jabba scene is a million times better, which is one of the things that I was looking forward to seeing the most.

I'll editorialize further after I've seen the other two :D

Sivy 09-23-2004 12:40 AM

i watch ANH last night too. the picture quality was pretty amazing compared to how it used to look. they've managed to really brighten it up and make it so much more colorful.
i was happier with the greedo and the jabba scene, a big improvement on the SEs. the sound was much better, although there were times when quality seem to dip.

luke's color changing lightsaber bugged me a bit. sometimes blue, sometimes white and one time its green.

but overall i was very pleased with it. can't wait to watch the other two.

kipperthefrog 09-23-2004 01:46 AM

I watched Return Of The Jedi and Return Of Darth Vader last night, got up at 4:30 am and now im doing a review!

My dad says that the prequils are not as great as they could have been and episode 3 better be great! I agree with him!

First the original, then the thx color version, then the speacial edition, now the DVD! not to mention the vaves of action figures each release!

Luca$ gets to cash in again at round 4!!

Kurgan 09-23-2004 02:21 AM

Overall, very nice.

There is a lot of hype surrounding these dvd's, but take it with a grain of salt.

Yes, the visual quality is amazing. The audio is pretty darn good (with a few glitches, as mentioned on various sites like digitalbits.com).

The "fixes" and "tweaks" are few and far between. Hayden as Anakin's ghost is annoying and stupid (Lucas says he'll explain it in Episode III... well this ought to be good... heh), as is redubbing Boba Fett. Totally unnecessary. The other changes are few and far between, but look okay (new Emperor, Jabba).

Palpatine's new lines don't sound as good as the old actor in ESB. Like Palpy was hung-over or something. Now we know that Vader was a little confused as to who his son was (or was making an attempt to hide that info from the Emperor by acting surprised in front of him). But the scene plays well enough.

Greedo shooting first is silly, but the scene looks a little better than it did in 1997. Jabba looks much better than he did, but the scene is still unnecessary. But at least, unlike the other changed scenes, it doesn't change anything else. After all it's a modification of an added scene in the first place.

Overall it's a nice package, but I REALLY wish there had been more extras. Deleted scenes, older documentaries, THE ORIGINAL VERSIONS TO COMPARE, commentary for more people, etc.

I mean these are monumental films, the extras were nice, but more akin to what you'd find on a standard blockbuster movie, not one that had been a blockbuster for 20 years in the popular imagination like Star Wars.

There are TONS of SFX gaffes and other things that were not touched. So essentially these are the 1997 Special Editions with the film cleaned up and a handfull of cosmetic changes to a few scenes.

As with the original SE's, the changes to ANH seem to make the most sense and work the best. The changes to the other movies seem more of an after-thought to cash in and make the whole set "special."

One thing I also really thought was stupid was the haphazard way the lightsabers were tweaked.

As far as I am concerned the sabers in ESB and ROTJ were perfect. But they had to go and mess with them. Now we get horrible looking animatic style sabers clashing in front of Palpatine in ROTJ and weird pink sabers for Vader and yellow/green cores for Luke. Luke even gets a green saber for most of ANH (but a blue saber in the menu of the same scene on the bonus disc!). Likewise the saber animations that could have been fixed in ANH to look better (Luke's basically) end up looking worse since the cleanup to the film exposes the cheap effects.

Then again, Obi-Wan and Vader's duel looks lovely. The sabers never looked better. Still, the obvious gaffe with Obi-Wan's unpainted saber in a few frames is still there (albeit with a slight glow to almost cover it).

A good effort, but it looks like they could have benefited from taking a few more months to polish up this release to really make it "special."

The documentaries are cool, but too much space is wasted on the disc with the Episode III stuff and the Battlefront and Episode III game stuff. What does that have to do with the OT again? ; p

I'm sure Lucas will release a new version someday... hopefully he'll reconsider packing in the Original Versions as an option.

If you're a Star Wars fan and you own a DVD player and a good setup, go ahead and buy it. You won't be disappointed (unless you're expecting an "ultimate edition" with tons of bells and whistles or all SFX fixed). As I said before, this is just the Special Edition with some minor tweaks and cleaned up visual quality.

At $39 it's a steal. Just be sure you get the Widescreen Version! (silver box)

Also check the bottoms of your disc media when you open it up. Wal-Mart in my area has lately been selling runs of bad dvd's with "burn marks" on the surface of the silver and glue seperation. Very unproffessional. I don't know if this is something that happens in the factory or in transit to the store, but its sloppy and undoubtebly shortens the life of the discs.

Prime 09-23-2004 09:26 AM

As you point out, for all the fuss that has gone over these things, very little has been changed from the SE versions.

Kurgan 09-23-2004 03:23 PM

Right.

In the grand scheme of things the movies are the same.

But the things that were changed (like the Greedo shooting first back in 1997), leave fans like me shaking their heads in bewilderment at what Lucas is thinking.

It's like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

I mean, okay, the rest of the painting is still amazing, but why the goofy change?

Lynk Former 09-23-2004 05:31 PM

Just wait till we all get our RotS DVDs and then we realise... we have them all. Now it's time to watch from ONE to SIX, in numerical order.

Codja X 09-24-2004 02:57 AM

That's going to a fun day - the pizza dude will be on speed dial for that:)

txa1265 09-24-2004 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurgan

But the things that were changed (like the Greedo shooting first back in 1997), leave fans like me shaking their heads in bewilderment at what Lucas is thinking.

It's like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

In my opinion there are only two things that qualify for that -
- Greedo shoots first.
- Anakin's ghost is Hayden, not Shaw

While the explanation of the disappearance of dying Jedi and Anakin's fall to Vader all might really suggest that he 'died' as a Jedi in terms of becoming one with the force, and might come in Ep III in such a way that Shaw being there makes no sense ... it will have to be a compelling argument to 'approve' the change (as opposed to 'oh well'-ing it)

As for the Han/Greedo - I put that up there with the changes Spielberg made in the armed group coming to the house in ET. It is making changes to adapt to the changing times. That one never bugged me too much, but I never saw the rationale.

The rest I see as 'cleaning the ceiling on the Sistine Chapel, rather than 'painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa'.

Mike

Prime 09-24-2004 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by txa1265
While the explanation of the disappearance of dying Jedi and Anakin's fall to Vader all might really suggest that he 'died' as a Jedi in terms of becoming one with the force, and might come in Ep III in such a way that Shaw being there makes no sense ... it will have to be a compelling argument to 'approve' the change (as opposed to 'oh well'-ing it)
Actually, I was watching one of the DVD extras last night, IIRC the one about the characters. There Lucas mentioned that Vader is slowly becoming more of a machine (He's more machine now, than man, and so on). Because of that, he is slowly losing his humanity and the ability to think and feel like a human.

I was thinking that at Vaders end, even though he has been redeemed from the Dark Side, he is still more machine than man. This implies that he has still lost some or most of his humanity, even if he is no longer evil. So if he is to appear at the end in "Shaw ghost form," that is really a form that is still less than the true Anakin. Only in the "Hayden form" is he really his true self, with his full humanity. So if that logic holds, it may make more sense in the end.

I'm not saying that is all correct, and hopefully all will be explained in Ep 3. It was just Lucas' comment that made me think.

Has anyone listened to the commentary yet? I wonder if it is explained on there...

Lynk Former 09-24-2004 11:01 AM

Yeah I've watched 100% (realistically) of all DVDs and I agree with Lucas's change with Hayden replacing Shaw.

Of course that doesn't change the fact that I want Lucas to release the original Original Trilogy.

Kurgan 09-24-2004 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by txa1265

While the explanation of the disappearance of dying Jedi and Anakin's fall to Vader all might really suggest that he 'died' as a Jedi in terms of becoming one with the force, and might come in Ep III in such a way that Shaw being there makes no sense ... it will have to be a compelling argument to 'approve' the change (as opposed to 'oh well'-ing it)
All I can say is that it better be a darn good explanation! Lucas would have been better off changing the prequels to fit the OT and not the other way around. But I suppose he'll argue for "imaginative freedom" so he can change the story to whatever suites his purpose, even if it means retro-actively changing the other films so they "fit" with his new (rather than "original") vision.

The problem I have with the "well he fell to the Dark Side when he was in his 20's so that was the last time he was good guy Anakin" is that, well, he had to have come back to the "good side" when he was an old man, or else how was he able to turn against the Emperor and be "saved" by Luke? If the good man was destroyed then, he couldn't have come back (there was still "good in him"). Since Lucas has shortened the time between trilogies (Shaw was in his 70's, implying the prequels took place a long time ago or else he turned to the Dark Side later in life), it would make more sense to show Anakin's spirit (and face under the mask) as a man in his 40's. Granted, age and the "ravages of the Dark Side" and disease could make him look older, but there's a big difference between a 20 year old and a 40 year old, or a 70 year old.

The second problem with the young Anakin spirit is that Luke would not recognize him. After all, he's only see Vader under the mask as an old man (this was not changed in the "definitive" DVD's, only his eyebrows are burned off). At least Shaw's ghost looked the same as before, but with hair and his scars healed. This young Anakin wouldn't be recognizable to Luke. Likewise audience members who haven't watched Episodes II and/or III will have no idea who this guy is. At least in the original version of ROTJ you could tell it was the same old guy, just with his wounds healed.

Quote:

As for the Han/Greedo - I put that up there with the changes Spielberg made in the armed group coming to the house in ET. It is making changes to adapt to the changing times. That one never bugged me too much, but I never saw the rationale.
Sort of like Lucas removing various frames of "flame bursts" coming out of the chests of Imperial officers who are shot in ANH to "tone down the violence."

Really it has nothing to do with changing times, since other PG films have equal or more violence (including the prequels), but seemingly George's perception of how much violence he wants to show to children (but that's a guess since he hasn't officially spoken about his reasons for that particular change, though I imagine it's obvious).

Interesting that he removes some flames from a human's chest, but he leaves the blood shed by humanoid aliens (Maul, Panda Boba).

And hey, at least Spielberg acknowledges that his films belong not just to him, but also to cinema history, and made the originals available alongside his modified versions on DVD.

Quote:

The rest I see as 'cleaning the ceiling on the Sistine Chapel, rather than 'painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa'.

Mike
The cleaning of the Sistine Chapel is akin to restoring the film quality on the DVD's. Of course everyone who created the original paintings is dead, and we've lived with the "remnants" for centuries, which is why some objected to them being "cleaned." At least Lucas is still alive and it's only been about 25-20 years. The Mona Lisa moustache is akin to the actual modifications to the film, ie: the Special Edition & DVD CGI's.

PS: I have read some film critics complain about DVD film restorations that go too far, by removing ALL film grain (not just dirt and scratches from wear and tear or damage). This gives movies a non-film and more "video tape" look, which to them, destroys some of the texture and "feeling" of the original print. So far from what I've seen there is still some grain in the films, so it's not that bad (the films don't look like AOTC which is entirely digital, for instance). But, film grain removal is nearly akin to colorization for these folks, and I think they do have a point.

But, again, at least it can be argued that it's George Lucas who is making these changes, and he controls the rights to the movies. The producers & directors of the other two films (the ones that are still alive anyway) seem to have given Lucas their blessing in the changes he made to their films as well.

Lynk Former 09-24-2004 03:35 PM

He's already explained it. Look at the bonus material and the commentary tracks.

Kurgan 09-24-2004 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prime
I was thinking that at Vaders end, even though he has been redeemed from the Dark Side, he is still more machine than man. This implies that he has still lost some or most of his humanity, even if he is no longer evil. So if he is to appear at the end in "Shaw ghost form," that is really a form that is still less than the true Anakin. Only in the "Hayden form" is he really his true self, with his full humanity. So if that logic holds, it may make more sense in the end.
Well the thing is, we don't really know when Anakin became Vader (ie: he needed the suit). Of course it is implied that it happened when Vader was "young" but this could be anything. If we go by that he was in his 20's like Luke, then he was a Sith Lord for 50 years! However if we go by Anakin's age in the prequels, then he was a Sith for only 20 years (being in his 40's at his death). "Healed" as he was in ghost form, he is actually appearing, possibly as he never did in life. When he was an old man in life he was a cyborg with horrible scars and the need for a breathing apparatus. Why would his injuries carry over into the afterlife?

Likewise, Yoda died when he was sick and weak. Is the ghost also sick and weak? Obi-Wan was cut in half when he died (well, at least in the early production.. now he just kind of instantly fades when the saber touches him), is the ghost stitched back together with a big saber scar across his chest?

Then again, all three of them are wearing "Jedi monk" robes as ghosts. Vader died in his armor, which was then torched by Luke. Obi-Wan disappeared (along with his clothes, just not his outer Jedi robe), as did Yoda.

All I'm saying is that in the "Force Afterlife" they need not appear as they did in life. But the precedent is set for Yoda and Obi-Wan to basically appear more or less how they were at the end of their lives. But Anakin somehow gets to appear as he did 20+ years ago. And if you chart Vader's downfall to his genocide of the Tusken families, that was before he had his long haired look, so why doesn't he appear that way (as a 19 year old Padawan)?

Quote:

I'm not saying that is all correct, and hopefully all will be explained in Ep 3. It was just Lucas' comment that made me think.
I'm hoping for a good explanation. If not, Lucas's last chance is to explain it on the ROTS DVD commentary. I just hope he doesn't screw it up and then leave it to some EU writer to figure it out. ; p

Quote:

Has anyone listened to the commentary yet? I wonder if it is explained on there... [/B]
I've listened to ANH & ESB commentaries and I'm about halfway through the ROTJ one. So far NONE of the modified scenes have really been commented on except for the ANH Jabba scene. They just talk about other stuff when a new scene comes up the vast majority of the time.

I'm also only half-way through Empire of Dreams, but it almost seems like they purposely left out any material that would discuss how they changed the movies or show the originals (though you get glimpses of stuff that's been changed in the trailors). They also left out all the Special Edition trailers except for the ANH one. I wonder why?

It may be because they needed room for the Episode III & video game fluff, and if so, that's unfortunate.

I would much rather if they had made that non-OT stuff as "special bonus disk" or something with a givaway like they did with the Star Trek TOS DVD sets. I mean, only since it was non-OT related. Then use the extra space to round out the OT bonus materials on disc 4.

Kurgan 09-24-2004 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lynk Former
He's already explained it. Look at the bonus material and the commentary tracks.
You mean he explains why we see Hayden instead of Shaw? Where specifically? There's hours of bonus material... or do you mean the end of the ROTJ commentary? Because I have another hour of that to go (halfway through).

All I heard from people was "he says it will be explained in Episode III" not that he gives an actual explanation.

Well, it would help to point out exactly where it's at to save time...

Lynk Former 09-24-2004 04:09 PM

Well I can't remember which movie commentary it was, it was Empire or Jedi... anywayz, Lucas was talking about how when a Jedi dies they're able to retain their bodies and what they looked like and they're able to choose themselves how they looked. Now it makes sense if Anakin wanted to look they way he was when he wasn't Darth Vader and rather when he was Anakin Skywalker.

And also he mentioned that while Anakin did have a death and rebirth from Darth Vader to Anakin Skywalker at the end, he was still more machine than man and he still didn't have his humanity intact. The last time he did he was Anakin Skywalker, the way you see him in Episode II.

The point is, Lucas wanted to point out the fact that he wanted to show the TRUE Anakin Skywalker.

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that he wants to really put the point across that Anakin really did die when he turned to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader.

Kurgan 09-24-2004 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lynk Former
[B]Well I can't remember which movie commentary it was, it was Empire or Jedi... anywayz, Lucas was talking about how when a Jedi dies they're able to retain their bodies and what they looked like and they're able to choose themselves how they looked. Now it makes sense if Anakin wanted to look they way he was when he wasn't Darth Vader and rather when he was Anakin Skywalker.
Ah, I just got though the ROTJ commentary, and I can say that this isn't covered (unless I fell asleep for some sentence or other). At the end of Jedi (during the "celebration" scenes on Endor/etc. Lucas is talking about them "joining the Force at will" but he doesn't say anything about them "choosing their appearance."

Yes, the Jedi spirit represents their "true self" but nothing about an option to appear a young handsome dude, etc. (I guess Yoda and Ben wanted to look old?)

He also forgets to mention Qui Gon Jinn (who has a voice in AOTC), and only mentions "they knew how to do it" (Yoda and Obi-Wan).

I'd argue that Vader became Anakin Skywalker again when he tossed the Emperor into the pit. That's why it's so sad. Luke gets his father back and then he dies.

Quote:

And also he mentioned that while Anakin did have a death and rebirth from Darth Vader to Anakin Skywalker at the end, he was still more machine than man and he still didn't have his humanity intact. The last time he did he was Anakin Skywalker, the way you see him in Episode II.
I don't recall hearing that. He only said that Vader was "losing his humanity" becoming more machine than man. Of course you could take this metaphorically and literally. Obviously his body was literally being replaced by more machinery over the years. But his lack of humanity was due more to the Dark Side of the Force. Obviously he was a VERY passionate man, but he lacked the positive emotions (until the end when he regained himself thanks to Luke). Human beings after all can feel anger, hatred, fear, etc.

Quote:

The point is, Lucas wanted to point out the fact that he wanted to show the TRUE Anakin Skywalker.
Right, which is what he was doing before, just that he was shown 50 years older than he is now (and still 20 years younger than he SHOULD be chronologically). Lucas really doesn't explain it (why 20 year old Hayden instead of 70 year old Shaw) in the ROTJ commentary, again, unless I missed it.

Maybe it's covered in the last hour of Empire of Dreams (the only real OT extra I haven't finished viewing yet).

Quote:

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that he wants to really put the point across that Anakin really did die when he turned to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader.
Perhaps, but this isn't covered in the commentary.

I even watched the Episode III preview (thankfully it wasn't much of a spoiler because I'd already seen most of the clips of the "pre-production fight" with the actors on set in other clips, tv spots, etc. But they don't say "oh, and Anakin really died, that's why he's in the OT."

No real explanation on the DVD's themselves for the Hayden/Shaw swap (again, unless it's something I missed on the Empire of Dreams doc or something).

Kurgan 09-24-2004 10:19 PM

SW DVD Trilogy Extra question...
 
On the 2004 DVD set, on the 4th disc "Bonus Material" in the menu there is a weird "box" to the right of R2-D2 that lights up yellow when high-lighted by your mouse cursor.

Yet, when I click it, it turns green and the menu simply "reloads" (refreshes).

Is this some hidden extra I'm just not accessing correctly, or is it some unfinished thing that was meant to be added but wasn't?

It just puzzles me that there's a menu option like that which seems to go nowhere.

Any thoughts?

PS: I'm accessing this on PowerDVD on my computer...

Codja X 09-25-2004 07:31 AM

Here we go:

Hidden Blooper Reel (Another Method):
Another way to get to the blooper reel is to go ot the Video Game and Still Gallery Menu, then press 11. After a pause, the box next to R2-D2 lights up. Then press 3. After another pause, press 8 to then reveal th hidden blooper reel clip!

This is from:

http://movieweb.com/dvd/eggs/egg.php?upc=024543123453

Jan Gaarni 09-25-2004 09:40 AM

Cool, I'll be doing that ... just as soon as I tire of playing BattleFront. :D

Kurgan 09-25-2004 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Codja X
Here we go:

Hidden Blooper Reel (Another Method):
Another way to get to the blooper reel is to go ot the Video Game and Still Gallery Menu, then press 11. After a pause, the box next to R2-D2 lights up. Then press 3. After another pause, press 8 to then reveal th hidden blooper reel clip!

This is from:

http://movieweb.com/dvd/eggs/egg.php?upc=024543123453

Okay I got it to work. The little box lights up with each press too. So that's what it was all along. I just wasn't pausing long enough between the presses of the numbers. ; )

Autobot Traitor 09-26-2004 04:11 PM

I don't know if anyone else sa2 this, but the Sunday before the set was released, the documentry "Empire of Dreams" was on A&E biography channel. I watched the whole thing, and was disapointed that it was the same thing as on the disc. But 10 minutes before I wrote this post, I decided to watch it on my DVD, only to find although it has the same title, it's a completely different documentry (asside from a few clips from interviews).

Quote:

Lucas is talking about them "joining the Force at will" but he doesn't say anything about them "choosing their appearance
That's alot like the after-image in the Matrix lol.


By the way, did anyone else notice how photoshoped Han's head looks when Greedo fires first? When his head moves, there's literaly a white line of pixels that moves with it.
Trippy...

Kurgan 09-26-2004 06:05 PM

I didn't see any white line of pixels on his head, but some people have been reporting odd visual glitches (I wonder if these are due to video drivers or the player they are using?) like white explosions and huge green boxes around ships (instead of the light gray ones that I can see in a few shots).

I never saw the Empire of Dreams on tv, but I heard that it was an "abbreviated form" (shorter version) of the one on the DVD. The DVD one was 2 1/2 hours long.

PS: If anyone finds ANYTHING in the DVD set that explains Hayden replacing Shaw or even mentions it, let me know and where you found it.

Prime 09-27-2004 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurgan
I never saw the Empire of Dreams on tv, but I heard that it was an "abbreviated form" (shorter version) of the one on the DVD. The DVD one was 2 1/2 hours long.
Correct.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurgan
PS: If anyone finds ANYTHING in the DVD set that explains Hayden replacing Shaw or even mentions it, let me know and where you found it.
I was under the impression that it was explained on the commentary, which I haven't watched yet. But since forums haven't been flooded with the answer, I'm guessing that is not the case.

I believe the current theory is that it is because your "ghost form" is supposed to be your true form, which in Anakin's case was when he was young. On the characters DVD extra, Lucas said that Vader has become more machine, and has lost most of his humanity. My theory is that even though he was redeamed, he is still more machine and thus not in his true form or humanity when he dies.

Hopefully it will be explained in Ep 3 at least.

Autobot Traitor 09-27-2004 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurgan
huge green boxes around ships (instead of the light gray ones that I can see in a few shots).
I get alot of the green and orange matte outlines on my set. I'm using my DVD enabled XBOX, but I also tested it on my standard JVC dvd player, that a Sony that a friend owns. Same crap on both.

Kurgan 09-27-2004 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prime
Correct.

I was under the impression that it was explained on the commentary, which I haven't watched yet. But since forums haven't been flooded with the answer, I'm guessing that is not the case.

I believe the current theory is that it is because your "ghost form" is supposed to be your true form, which in Anakin's case was when he was young. On the characters DVD extra, Lucas said that Vader has become more machine, and has lost most of his humanity. My theory is that even though he was redeamed, he is still more machine and thus not in his true form or humanity when he dies.

Hopefully it will be explained in Ep 3 at least.

I wonder. If your theory is true, then I suppose if Luke died, he'd appear as he did pre-robotic hand? ; )

If we want to go to the "Dark Path" theory, Anakin was basically already there in Episode II (and if you go by the EU, in the Clone Wars series as well). Though we all have heard rumors and speculated that he "becomes" Darth Vader in Episode III, by the fact that his body is damaged so much that he needs the suit.


Anyhow, I relistened to the ROTJ commentary during the Vader funeral pyre scene.

Lucas says that Anakin is able to retain his identity "when he died."

However, Lucas doesn't go on and explain "oh and since I'm now taking Obi-Wan's statements about the 'good man who was your father being destroyed' literally, Anakin died in Episode III as a young man of 21 years of age and from that point on only Vader existed, and that's why I replaced Shaw's ghost with Hayden Christiansen's." Which would have settled it! Oh well.

Taking his words one can easily also get the interpretation that we knew all along (only news to someone who hasn't seen the trilogy before), that at least certain Jedi are able to "come back" after they die in spirit form. I notice too he doesn't mention Qui Gon Jinn, who came back after his death. Note that like Obi-Wan, he appears first as only a "voice." We've all heard the story that Liam Neesan was in an accident preventing him from appearing in Episode II as a Jedi Spirit, but that this was originally the plan. Instead he was just a voice speaking to Yoda about Anakin.

Well, all I can say is, I agree, Lucas better give us a good explanation for all this in Episode III...

Lynk Former 09-27-2004 11:09 PM

Maybe Lucas wants you to think about it rather than him explaining it all to you.


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