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-   -   Making it PC friendly (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=137067)

Outlaw_VR 09-28-2004 08:29 AM

Making it PC friendly
 
Its no mystery that PC gamers are less then satisfied with the current build of game. The game has lot of promise, but has a feel of a PC FPS game that came out 4 years ago. The lack luster in-game browser has a lot to do with it, but not all. The game uses many antiquated FPS gameplay devices, and is missing many of the new ones we PC gamers have come accustomed to. This is most likely because the game was developed as console game first and then ported over to PC, but somehow devs did not have the time to alter the game for the PC audience's tastes (deadline restriction perhaps).

The good news is that many of the fixes are relatively easy, and require simple alterations in variables already present within the programing code of the game. I'll list the main ones.

1. One issue is the strafing and backpeddling speeds of the characters. The speed is faster then most recent FPS games that have come out. Since strafing is so fast it becomes a viable tactic to simple strafe back and forth to avoid being shot. When players get locked up in a strafe war it then becomes a competition on who has the better connection rather then skill and tactics.

- Solution: A simple modification in the strafing and backpeddling speed.

2. Another issue is that Prone and Crouch positions seem to have almost no effect on aim. Sure going into these positions makes you a hard to hit target, but strafing back and forth makes you even harder to hit...AND you have just as good an aim. There needs to be a noticeable advatage in aim when standing still, crouching and prone when compared to running.

- Solution: The code for this fix is already in the game. Im sure you have noticedd that your aim faulters when shooting for too long. Simply have system where when running the aim faulters after a couple shots (promoting burst firing). When standing still 3-5 shots. Crouching 10. Going prone will nver faulter the aim. These are just examples.

For the sniper gun implement a similar system. When prone the bullet hits the center of the reticle every time. While crouched less so...and so on.

3. Blaster guns in general (infantry's main weapon, all the back-up pistols, droidekas/ wookies main gun ect..) take too many shot to get a kill. Its very unsatifing shooting someone 3-4 times only for them to turn around and kill you in one shot with a rocket launcher. Currently, it takes 6 shots to the torso or 2 shots to the head to get a kill. For the Wookie/Droideka it take 9 shots the torso. This promotes a type of gameplay where running around meatshielding and gernade spaming is a viable option. This type of gameplay died a long time ago in PC games.

- Solution: This is probably the easiest fix of all, but which will have a very profound effect on gameplay. A shot to the head should be a kill. There is nothing wrong with awarding a good shot. Around 3 shots to the torso would do nicely as well.

FYI - Blaster pistols and blaster rifles (including blaster cannons and Wookie/droideka gun) all do the same amount of dame per shot (just different fire rates). So an improvement on blaster damage would improve almost every class.

4. The ability to tumble roll is very handy and fun. I love being able to dodge a gernade or rocket at the last second with a well timed roll. But the ability to tumble roll non stop with no pause creates a situation similar to "bunny hopping". I could go on, but quite simply it does not belong is a modern PC FPS game. I really hope you can all see this, and spare me the long winded explanation ;).

- Solution: add a small pause between each roll. Something like 3 seconds should do it.


With the above modifications to build on as a base, SWB should have the potential to grow and expand with the PC community similar to the BF games.

[RNGD]Tyrant 09-28-2004 10:15 AM

as your post and many others (and reviews) point out...the PC version isnt optimised for the PC. As of launch all 3 versions are pretty much the same.

But of course the requirements of PC gamers and the abilities of the PC allow for it to be much different. The most obvious example is mapsize, which seems optimised for 12-16 players, but on the PC you can have 50 players.


The big question is: will they allow the PC version to diverge away from the console version...or will they continue to 'lock them together' where all changes to the game must apply to all platforms.


I truly believe this can be a great PC game....if it is allowed to be a PC Game

Iceman_IX 09-28-2004 11:21 AM

1. Actually it becomes a competition of who has the better leading aim. I think the strafing is fine. Probably should be slowed down a little for realism but not by much.

2. Yes they definitely need to change some accuracy issues. Prone and crouch are only useful for cover (on maps like Yavin Temple, Endor, etc.)

3. Definitely. Should take ~3-4 shots to kill someone. I am almost never the blaster class because I'd rather spam mines with my rocket or snipe people (one shot kill)

4. Yes, someone was doing this last night and it was ridiculous. There needs to be a pause after you tumble roll where it's like getting up from prone. You can't shoot and can't move. Something like that.

Another problem: headshotting someone as Rebel sniper doesn't kill them! I haven't tested this fully but it seems to take 2 shots no matter what. I have only been Rebel sniper a few times but I was on Cloud City and it was laggy but last night I couldn't seem to get a 1-shot-kill.

194ToastMonkey 09-28-2004 12:20 PM

It's not just the rebel sniper rifle - the imperial version doesn't always get the job done either.

I quit playing the other day when I blasted a wookie from about 20 ft in the face with my sniper rifle and he didn't even flinch (instead he killed me with one of his grenades).

This game has the weakest weapons ever and I won't waste any more time with it until the first patch hits. If I install the patch and shoot someone in the head with a sniper rifle and they don't drop, I'll be uninstalling faster than you can say "Use the force Luke" ....

Grrrr...

Iceman_IX 09-28-2004 03:46 PM

I headshot people regularly with the Imperial sniper zoomed or not. Could be a combination of lag, low framerate, etc. but I know I can headshot someone with Imperial and I'm next-to-positive that it doesn't work with Rebel.

Outlaw_VR 09-28-2004 04:00 PM

I've noticed the same thing about the sniper rifles. Didn't pay attention to which faction I was playing. I thought it had to do something with where the hitboxes for the head are placed on the characters. I'll do some testing.

Outlaw_VR 09-28-2004 04:13 PM

Quote:

1. Actually it becomes a competition of who has the better leading aim. I think the strafing is fine. Probably should be slowed down a little for realism but not by much.
I agree if the your opponent strafes in one direction. Then you can find the lag sweet spot and continue firing in that spot. But if they start rapidily strafing back and forth (which they do) then it becomes a competition on who has the best connection and who can spray and pray the best.

Iceman_IX 09-28-2004 06:07 PM

Strafing back and forth generally gets you hit more because they are generally firing behind you. Every time I strafe back (back left when strafing right and visa versa), I die because their aim is behind me. I have learned to use the terrain. Strafe right, move back, move forward, continue strafing right etc.

Muad Dib Sennet 09-28-2004 10:26 PM

Yep. Look at BF Vietnam, and compare it to this game.

Cmon now folks... Let's get this thing on track and away from the dumbed down 16 player console shooter it's been released as. This thing needs to be optimized for a much larger player base, with much more consistent gameplay designs.

Every one of Outlaw's suggestions need to be approved and implemented. As well as the following suggestions:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

- Display the NAMES of the other players in the same vehicle as you on your screen (in a vehicle shaped icon). Let us know who our co-pilot is.

- Give us an option to Auto-switch to 3rd person view whenever we enter a vehicle (and back to 1st person when we exit).

- Allow us to hit TAB while we wait to respawn. Is there a better time to check scores? Not that I know of.

- Decrease the rocket launchers area of affect but raise it's damage, and increase the std. blasters' rates of fire. This shift will promote the RL's to be used in thier primary anti-armor role instead of the current Quake-like attacks against infantry. (This included w/ Outlaws suggestions regarding damage levels will have a huge effect on how this game is played).

- Increase the Rate of Fire significantly for all turrets and/or gun implacements. These things need to be devastating so they become the cornerstones of every map. Let players build strategies around them. No more "put, put, put" laser blasts. Let us mow enemies down!

Iceman_IX 09-28-2004 11:24 PM

- Decrease the rocket launchers area of affect but raise it's damage, and increase the std. blasters' rates of fire. This shift will promote the RL's to be used in thier primary anti-armor role instead of the current Quake-like attacks against infantry. (This included w/ Outlaws suggestions regarding damage levels will have a huge effect on how this game is played).

I don't know how extensively you've played as a missile trooper but the area of effect isn't THAT big at all for Imperials and Clones. I have shot RIGHT NEXT to someone and they won't die. Get injured, sure but the damn thing hit so close they should be stunned/thrown. The area of effect is fine. Only a direct shot kills. Keep moving and it's not a problem. Just avoid my mines :)

- Increase the Rate of Fire significantly for all turrets and/or gun implacements. These things need to be devastating so they become the cornerstones of every map. Let players build strategies around them. No more "put, put, put" laser blasts. Let us mow enemies down!

Yes, I HEAVILY agree with this and have totally overlooked it in my postings. Let's face it. Turrets are useless right now. Getting in one is just asking to be rocketed/shot/annihilated. They don't have any effect. I love it when someone gets in, I just shoot them to death. Turrets do so little damage, the shot takes time to get there, the refire rate is like once a second, and they are immobile. Only turrets I like are the ones on the poles in Yavin Temple and those are designed so that their area of sight is highly limited. Make the turrets better. But not dominant :) Balance first.

- Give us an option to Auto-switch to 3rd person view whenever we enter a vehicle (and back to 1st person when we exit).

Oh man would I love this. I am a FPSer at heart but the third person view in vehicles is totally fun. But I COMPLETELY forget to use it! No way I'm gonna be third person as infantry (not real, harder to aim, etc.) but 3rd person auto-perspective would be a great control feature. Hopefully I'll just get better at hitting Q. 3rd person is much better for maneuvering on maps like Endor and in vehicles like AT-ST and speederbike.

Outlaw_VR 09-29-2004 06:14 AM

Quote:

The area of effect is fine. Only a direct shot kills. Keep moving and it's not a problem.
No, you can kill someone without a direct hit. Go test it out for yourself. You can shoot someone up to 2 feet away from them and kill them. This is with either factions rocket troop.

Do this quick test to find out yourself. Go up right up against a wall and shoot it, if you die then you know it doesn't have to be a direct hit.

When you try the same test with a super battle droid's rocket only a third of your life goes down, though we all know its rocket kills with a direct hit.

Iceman_IX 09-29-2004 07:25 AM

...if you're right up against a wall, the distance between you and the point of impact is 0, thus it's a direct hit. That's why you die. There is SOME splash, but the range of that splash is not an unfair amount. The blast does not have to hit the body of the player, that's not what I meant. But the result is that you can't just shoot it in the general vicinity and kill in one hit. It requires some aim and use of the terrain. Requiring a direct hit makes no sense anyway. And the current blast radius that encompasses a kill is very small. There's no way to quantify it but it's fine. It couldn't be any smaller and make a degree of sense. Making it any smaller WOULD be requiring a direct hit, which doesn't make sense. It's an explosive blast.

If a rocket troop is near enough to you to take you out like that, you probably just haven't done your job (shooting him down before he gets close to you).

Outlaw_VR 09-29-2004 07:47 AM

Quote:

...if you're right up against a wall, the distance between you and the point of impact is 0, thus it's a direct hit
No its not, otherwise a super battle droid would kill himself in one shot in that same wall test, which it doesn't.

Do the wall test and stand just a couple feet away and you will still die in one shot. The one hit kill blast radius is about 2 feet.

Frankly the rocket launcher is too effective against infantry right now. I agree the blast radius is fine, but the splash damage shouldn't one hit kill. Something like 1/2 or 2/3 life maybe. (There seems to be 2 layers of splash actually. There is the 2 feet splash that kills in one shot. Then there is the outer splash which takes away like a third or so.)

I also wouldn't mind seeing a speed reduction for rocket troops, and clip reduction coupled with a damage increase (which it will make more effective against armor, but less shots for infantry).

Outlaw_VR 09-29-2004 08:03 AM

EDIT:

I also wouldn't mind seeing a speed reduction for rocket troops, and clip reduction coupled with a damage increase (which it will make more effective against armor, but less shots for infantry) if they keep the rocket laucher splash damage the same.

Iceman_IX 09-29-2004 11:43 AM

It's all a matter of balance, but I definitely would like to see a movement speed differential between the classes. Pilot should move the fastest. He's like the battlefield medic and that'll help him get to the vehicles first.

DarkFlame 09-29-2004 01:22 PM

I don't even have the game and I agree with everything. some of these problems should've been wiped from the genre atleast 6 years ago, but game makers continue to get almost everthing wrong! pay attention to the community! you'll learn something! I'm not just saying this because of what I've heard about this game, but a lot of very bad expereiences. also, this thing was intended for console, since console games have these overpowered explosives and underpowered everything else, not to mention too much health. it's because of how different it plays out with a mouse or a joystick.

Tach Deneva 09-30-2004 07:08 AM

The emphasis on capturing the other team's spawn points is IMO the game's *fatal flaw*. Especially considering all the spawn-camping that goes on, typically with enemy vehicles parking near your spawn points, blasting you the instant you spawn in. Over and over and over.

More variety is desperately needed.

I'd like to see a 'no respawn mission play' option, for example. Let everyone spawn in at the beginning of the round with only (ahem) One Life to Live, then the teams duke it out and/or attempt to complete some actual mission objectives (something besides the typical mad scramble to capture all the CPs, that is) until time runs out or one side wipes out the other, then move on to the next round.

With mission objectives like, say, "Break into the Imperial Detention Center, free Fut Odorr, get him back to the Rebel base in one piece." Or "Plant explosives at critical points the CIS Droid Manufacturing Facility." Or "Rebel spies have stolen the plans for the Deathstar; stop them! Or else!" Or even "Kill Jar Jar Binks before the Republic creates an army of Jar Jar Binks clones!"

It would also be fun to have the option to play Tusken Raiders, or even Jawas...

Probably getting too far away from the premise of classic SW battles - but still, more variety of some sort is needed. Maybe in a future expansion pack...?

TD

italegion 09-30-2004 08:58 AM

another minor thing that should be patched: the name of players visible behind walls/hills (that was patched also in BF1942)


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