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-   -   The Official Merged JK4 Speculation Thread! (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=137283)

Floppythegod 04-10-2004 05:08 PM

Jedi Knight 4
 
I wonder when jedi knight 4 will be? Any news?

Kurgan 04-10-2004 05:21 PM

No information is available from either Raven or LucasArts.

No word on if there will even be a "Jedi Knight 4" or anything similar.

About the only thing we know is that IF such a game is made it probably won't be on the Q3 engine (*waits to hear the cheers and tears of joy from the new engine-hype gallery*) since Raven said JA would be the last game they'd do on that engine.

shukrallah 04-10-2004 11:49 PM

I hope they make a new engine from scratch. Anyways, if there will be a JK4, then it wont be for/ at least 2 years.

StormHammer 04-11-2004 12:16 AM

I'd certainly like to see another game in the series - but I have a feeling they would want to change the format. Raven wanted to do something new with JA, and it worked to a certain degree (the tiered mission format - okay in principle but slightly flawed in the execution). Many people have already complained that JA was too similar to JO in terms of the gameplay dynamic, and some simply viewed it as an expansion pack - which is a bit unfair IMHO. Nevertheless, the whole game industry at the moment seems to be trying to reinvent the wheel for no good purpose (other than to widen the target markets), so I would imagine any more games in this series would undergo some fundamental changes. An engine change is pretty certain for starters.

There's nothing to say Raven would even be involved in another instalment. Lucasarts can engage any other developer they like - or once they've cut their teeth on Republic Commando, take the whole thing back in-house to develop on the Unreal tech.

I strongly doubt that they would build a completely new engine from scratch. Coding a new engine is no simple task, and can take years of development. Just look at the Source engine from Valve - they've basically been working on it since Half-Life was released. Building an engine takes time and resources - and you have to be pretty certain there is a big payoff at the end to justify the costs. It's far more economical to take an existing engine and modify it to suit your needs.

Who's to say? Only Lucasarts has the answer...

--ZeeMan-- 04-11-2004 12:35 AM

*hello operator..could you please connect me to lucasarts?*


shhh....I'M HOLDING!

Crow_Nest 04-11-2004 06:19 AM

Y'know if there is a JK4 in the future, i hope it uses the same engine as KOTOR or doom 3.

StormHammer 04-11-2004 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
Y'know if there is a JK4 in the future, i hope it uses the same engine as KOTOR or doom 3.
The Doom 3 tech might be good.

I'm not so sure about the KOTOR engine, though.

The Unreal tech is more modular in format, so probably a bit easier to change around.

Other engine contenders would have to be the Cry Engine (as used in Far Cry) and the X-Ray engine (as used in the yet to be released STALKER).

Obi_Kwiet 04-11-2004 03:59 PM

They MUST use the Unreal 3 engine! From what i hear its incredible. Course it ran laggy on ATI's and Nvidia's new prototype chipsets. On PCI express. And with the fastest procesors avalible. And the 6millon poly modles. But they can tone them down to 6500 and they look almost as good.

GothiX 04-11-2004 08:05 PM

Raven is part of Activision, so that'd be DooM 3.

-=DarkZero=- 04-11-2004 08:28 PM

If they make a new JK game, I just hope it doesn't SUCK!
Personally, I think they ruined JA, it could have been so much better :(

DarthMuffin 04-11-2004 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante Vandetta.
If they make a new JK game, I just hope it doesn't SUCK!
Personally, I think they ruined JA, it could have been so much better :(

Agreed.
They should not have included duals and staves.

me = a purist who thinks that jedi and sith are supposed to have single sabers

Tyler_Durden 04-12-2004 03:00 AM

Last i heard, there was supposedly development going into a third person game starring vader. Third person....... rrrrr

Samus Aran 04-12-2004 07:43 AM

Quote:

'd certainly like to see another game in the series - but I have a feeling they would want to change the format. Raven wanted to do something new with JA, and it worked to a certain degree (the tiered mission format - okay in principle but slightly flawed in the execution). Many people have already complained that JA was too similar to JO in terms of the gameplay dynamic, and some simply viewed it as an expansion pack - which is a bit unfair IMHO. Nevertheless, the whole game industry at the moment seems to be trying to reinvent the wheel for no good purpose (other than to widen the target markets), so I would imagine any more games in this series would undergo some fundamental changes. An engine change is pretty certain for starters.
first Lucasarts DO have the resources to develop a new engeine.
But it will problably take some years.

2nd why shouldn't they hire Raven again? I mean they have developed JA JO. But im not sure if they also developed DF II.
But if they did they are abou 75 procent that they will help developing it again.

The game would also be pretty hard to start.
I mean they have to find a default skin for Jaden.
or also if you would be playing him again.

and there would be 2 different tracks in the start one for light and one for dark.
They problably wil go together some time but still]

BobaJango 04-12-2004 07:37 PM

I would love to see a third person game starring vader. No need for sabers, just choke them to death! (From 15 feet away?!)

_PerfectAgent_ 04-12-2004 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samus Aran
first Lucasarts DO have the resources to develop a new engeine.
But it will problably take some years.

Just like they did with Dark Forces and Jedi Knight.

Quote:

But im not sure if they [Raven] also developed DF II.
That was done by LucasArts, back in the day when they used to make their own games.

babywax 04-12-2004 09:21 PM

I would like to see it on the source engine or the cry engine, but it almost certainly will be done on the Doom 3 engine. Oh well, real time lighting along with lightsabers will look very cool anyway.

Assuming they make a JK4 of course.

I would just love to see all the physics interaction with force powers in the source engine. Although I hear Doom 3 has physics, I have a feeling they will not be quite as big a part of the game as in HL2.

I would love to see a new combat system, one where you can control exactly where the saber goes (using inverse kinematics). Think about how cool that would be, REAL parrying!

_PerfectAgent_ 04-12-2004 09:26 PM

Though that might be interesting, there are problems...
[list=1][*]The pace would be too slow, which would be out of sync with the rest of the game (guns).[*]The saberists would be annihilated by the gunners.[*]You can only control the mouse in a 2-D plane, X and Y; unless you use predetermined swings, but that's back to square one.[/list=1]

StormHammer 04-12-2004 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samus Aran
first Lucasarts DO have the resources to develop a new engeine.
But it will problably take some years.

I never said they didn't have the resources - but I did say it would probably take years to develop a new engine that would be 'current' when it is finally completed. It is usually cheaper to simply buy a license for an existing engine to fast-track game development. I don't know about you, but I'm one of those people who doesn't want to spend another four years in limbo waiting for the next title in the series.

Quote:

2nd why shouldn't they hire Raven again? I mean they have developed JA JO. But im not sure if they also developed DF II.
But if they did they are abou 75 procent that they will help developing it again.

I'm not saying they shouldn't hire Raven again. Personally I think they did a good job with JO and JA - although I still think the level design is too linear. But it's basically down to Lucasarts. As I said, they could decide to take the project in-house. You also have to consider that Raven itself may have other commitments, and may not be available to produce a new title in the series. In the past they've usually had about 3 games in development, both internal IPs and external licenses. I only know for sure that they are working on Quake IV - whatever else they have in the pipeline is a mystery to me. Maybe they're working on a JK4 as we speak - maybe not.

I think it's relatively safe to say, though, that the majority of people would want to see another in the series.

shukrallah 04-12-2004 09:37 PM

If they do that saber thing your talking about, it would be a cool as it gets, just... extremly hard.

Kurgan 04-13-2004 01:33 AM

Dark Forces = New engine from scratch (although some rumor-mongers allege that LucasArts "hacked the Doom engine looking for ideas" and this explains why they never released the source (rather than for their well known stringent liscensing practices I guess). The engine was called "Jedi."

Jedi Knight = Same design team (basically) as DF1. New engine from scratch ("Sith").

Mysteries of the Sith = Modified Sith engine, some people that worked on JK returned, but otherwise same design team as "Outlaws" the only non-SW FPS made by LucasArts.

Jedi Outcast = Raven, using modified Q3:TA engine.

Jedi Academy = Raven again, using further modified engine as used in JO.

JK4 = nobody knows who will make it (if they make it) and using what engine, we can only guess. ; )

A lot of us are guessing if Raven DOES do it they'll do it using Doom3. But again, that's pure speculation.

FiEND_138 04-13-2004 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
Last i heard, there was supposedly development going into a third person game starring vader. Third person....... rrrrr


I read the same thing. On TF.net, I believe. All unsubstantiated rumor, but would be pretty damn sweet non the less.

Khier 04-13-2004 02:47 AM

I've played with around ideas on this and with some of the games that have just recently been released or are still being worked on, it's clear that a sequel to JA must have a new engine, whether it be from scratch or using an existing engine (HL2, Far Cry, Doom 3 are definite candidates).

If they do develop another sequel, I believe they will expand upon the "create a Jedi" theme for SP.

I think acrobatics like wall running, wall flipping, etc. should feel a lot more practical and useful as well as looking cool (read: Ninja Gaiden), of course that would entail practical level design to incorporate practical use of such acrobatics (JA's levels were better than JO, imo, but could have been better still).

I also think the saber swings and movemements could look better, maybe mixing in a sort of kendo style influence or something, but the staff and dual animatons look totally out of place and generally goofy looking, and those staff kicks look pretty horrible (sure wasn't Ray Park doing the motion capture), and I still puzzle about the terrible walking animation for staff/duals.

Ah well, I can always dream that someone will create a game of the year sequel to JKA. :p

Weiser_Cain 04-13-2004 02:54 AM

I for one would like the game slowed down. It's insanely hyper now. People flailing about with two lightsabers of a staff twirling through the air. It just doesn't feel like starwars. As for blasters they're too acurate in JA, they're supposed to have some serious kickback, I can snipe with a blaster in JA. And as for defelecting blaster bolts it could be a button or maybe use the right mouse button, which could also be used for parrying. The combat system need to be redone anyway. I should be able to control the timing of my swing. One way is to have the mouse control the swing while the left mouse button is depressed and function normaly otherwise.

StormHammer 04-13-2004 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Khier Serakk
I think acrobatics like wall running, wall flipping, etc. should feel a lot more practical and useful as well as looking cool (read: Ninja Gaiden), of course that would entail practical level design to incorporate practical use of such acrobatics (JA's levels were better than JO, imo, but could have been better still).
This may be unrelated to the Jedi Knight series, but there is a game in development called Advent Rising, and your character will have psi abilities that grow stronger as the game progresses. I think I've mentioned the game before, because you will be able to levitate objects - and if you watch the trailer available from the official site you will see some nice acrobatic moves, along with what looks like a Force Push move right at the end.

Although it has a cartoony appearance, it's pretty stylish, and the character animation is very good. That is the sort of quality I would want to see in a potential JK4.

I believe Advent Rising is using Unreal tech as a foundation.

Tyler_Durden 04-13-2004 05:19 AM

whoever develops the next game (if any) i hope they implement a 1st person mode, dammit. You may now rebuke.

Weiser_Cain 04-13-2004 07:19 AM

I wouldn't mind first player as long as it's a togggle. I'd like some RPG elements. And I'd like to really buid a Lightsaber in-game. I want saber staffs to be very rare to the point that I could miss it after several times through SP. The game should be a lot more freeform and the missions more open. Totaly destructable-gigantic-make me upgrade my computer-enviroments. Better character customization. Flowing robes and capes. Dark armor.

Kurgan 04-13-2004 10:05 PM

Yeah, basically most of the stuff that they planned for Obi-Wan PC but never implemented in the final game...

have just about everything in the environment be interactive in some way (with realistic physics) and force powers that become more powerful based on how you use them in your game.

_PerfectAgent_ 04-13-2004 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
I for one would like the game slowed down. It's insanely hyper now.
If you think Jedi Academy MP is fast, try Jedi Knight MP.

StormHammer 04-13-2004 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
whoever develops the next game (if any) i hope they implement a 1st person mode, dammit. You may now rebuke.
Of course they should retain first person mode - and I'd like to see a return to 1st person saber combat, personally. It should at least be an option. I like the ability to switch between perspectives as I go along.

As for interactivity with the environment, I have to agree. Due to the presence of the lightsaber, a Jedi Knight game should really be at the cutting edge (pun intended) of destructable and deformable terrain and objects. This is really where an improved implementation of the GeoMod system that Volition used in Red Faction would be appropriate - in tandem with very good physics implementation.

Far Cry has some very good physics - at one point there is a cargo container hanging from some chains - and if you shoot each chain in turn to break it, the container realistically reacts as the supports disappear. I'd love to be able to do something like that with a lightsaber. Cut through supports to bring something crashing down on the heads of my enemies. I'd also like the gravity gun effect showcased in Half-Life 2 - rip an object off the wall and then Force Throw it at someone.

The technology is there, and it's proven. So it's about time it was implemented in a Jedi Knight game, where it truly belongs.

The other thing that I would definitely like to see return is swimmable water. There were some greatly designed levels that included underwater sections in Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith, and I really missed them in both JO and JA.

As far as level design itself goes, it would be cool to see a properly laid out town with houses that you can enter. If you look at the Tatooine Siege map, for example, you have the basic buildings dotted about - they just need people, furnishings, and some action for an SP level.

Regarding AI - it has to improve. We need NPCs and enemies that go about their virtual lives. Just go and play the Siberia mission of NOLF2, or spy on the grunts in Far Cry from afar, and they were constantly on the move, and doing something. Static spawning enemies should be a thing of the past, IMHO.

There is just so much more that could be done for a Jedi Knight game if the right tech is employed, and it would be a bit ridiculous not to implement it.

The only other thing I would want to see for the next game in the series is stealth that works. While it's great to go splicing and dicing the local population, a lone Jedi is not a tank, and should be able to sneak around if they want to. That means levels have to be designed with hidey holes, and things like Mind Trick have to be developed further to make them truly useful.

Tinny 04-13-2004 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StormHammer
Of course they should retain first person mode - and I'd like to see a return to 1st person saber combat, personally. It should at least be an option. I like the ability to switch between perspectives as I go along.

As for interactivity with the environment, I have to agree. Due to the presence of the lightsaber, a Jedi Knight game should really be at the cutting edge (pun intended) of destructable and deformable terrain and objects. This is really where an improved implementation of the GeoMod system that Volition used in Red Faction would be appropriate - in tandem with very good physics implementation.

Far Cry has some very good physics - at one point there is a cargo container hanging from some chains - and if you shoot each chain in turn to break it, the container realistically reacts as the supports disappear. I'd love to be able to do something like that with a lightsaber. Cut through supports to bring something crashing down on the heads of my enemies. I'd also like the gravity gun effect showcased in Half-Life 2 - rip an object off the wall and then Force Throw it at someone.

The technology is there, and it's proven. So it's about time it was implemented in a Jedi Knight game, where it truly belongs.

The other thing that I would definitely like to see return is swimmable water. There were some greatly designed levels that included underwater sections in Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith, and I really missed them in both JO and JA.

As far as level design itself goes, it would be cool to see a properly laid out town with houses that you can enter. If you look at the Tatooine Siege map, for example, you have the basic buildings dotted about - they just need people, furnishings, and some action for an SP level.

Regarding AI - it has to improve. We need NPCs and enemies that go about their virtual lives. Just go and play the Siberia mission of NOLF2, or spy on the grunts in Far Cry from afar, and they were constantly on the move, and doing something. Static spawning enemies should be a thing of the past, IMHO.

There is just so much more that could be done for a Jedi Knight game if the right tech is employed, and it would be a bit ridiculous not to implement it.

The only other thing I would want to see for the next game in the series is stealth that works. While it's great to go splicing and dicing the local population, a lone Jedi is not a tank, and should be able to sneak around if they want to. That means levels have to be designed with hidey holes, and things like Mind Trick have to be developed further to make them truly useful.



mann, that is everything i want. but it'll take huge $$ for Lucasarts to implement all that. also i want to see lightsaber duels that are more swing based and only when you knock a persons saber back would kicking or doing a combo be useful, or a combo could be used to knock a persons saber back so that you can go in for a stab rather than relying soley on combos to kill any saber weilding dude.

MuRaSaMuNe 04-14-2004 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
Last i heard, there was supposedly development going into a third person game starring vader. Third person....... rrrrr
I saw this on ign I think it was a while go as well. Probably EP3 vader...

They need to track down the old Kyle actor and sexy Jan actress and put em back on the screen, the JK1 cutscenes were awesome. It'd also be nice to have some civilians wandering around again so you have someone to fight for instead of wandering around aimlessly with a lightsaber and cutting up endless hoards of baddies. Some stealth elements would be pretty nice, I remember a level in JK2 that had some when you were in an Imperial embassy of some sort and you had to sneak by all the stormies although mind trick made it really easy. I'd also like to see some interaction with the environment using force powers, picking up chunks of stone with the force and launching it at someone would be very cool

Tyler_Durden 04-14-2004 07:22 AM

For me the biggest thing is having choices, be it a cosmetic feature or ingame features, such as deus ex or kotor as in what you say reflects on how the game progess. Luca$art$ has a lot of money, i mean cmon if any company should put out an innovative game it should be luca$art$. In otherwords spending $4-6 mill on game development should be nothing in terms of how much revenue Luca$'s multiple companies make in a year. Even more so, they have the option of having more people to help with development of new games, even those outside the star wars universe. The original trilogy dvd preorders alone could more than fund a new JK game. They can save money by hiring outside contractors but why? It's not like they're gonna go bankrupt, there's too many fans that would not allow that to happen. I'm sure they will, though and that's ok. I just really want a kick ass experience with the next game if i'm gonna put down 50 bucks for it.

StormHammer 04-14-2004 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
Luca$art$ has a lot of money, i mean cmon if any company should put out an innovative game it should be luca$art$. In otherwords spending $4-6 mill on game development should be nothing in terms of how much revenue Luca$'s multiple companies make in a year. Even more so, they have the option of having more people to help with development of new games, even those outside the star wars universe. The original trilogy dvd preorders alone could more than fund a new JK game.
Well, I would assume that Lucasarts has to look after it's own pot of money. Whatever money it makes from game sales can go back into developing new titles (while leaving an appropriate profit margin) - but I doubt that cash is simply transferred around the Lucas empire. That's not good business practice. The idea of setting up any company is for it to stand on it's own two feet and pay it's own way (and produce a profit) - otherwise it becomes a drain on other financial resources.

So it doesn't matter how well the DVD collection sells - because Lucasarts probably cannot tap into that money.

I have no idea what Lucasarts is worth, but I would assume they're doing pretty well selling their games. After all, they have a good few titles in production every year across multiple platforms.

As for $4-6 million on game development, these days that's more like small change.

Kharad Donn 04-14-2004 06:34 PM

As far as the engine is concerned, I don't really care provided that it's at least as good as JA and JO.

What I really want to see is some change in the action. First of all, I want to start with some big time force powers. I do get tired of thinking "this would be so much easier if I had force jump three" to myself. Another thing i'd like to see is a change in the sith battles. I do like fighting with sabers, but it would be nice if the sith weren't so invincible to conventional weaponry.

I think it would be interesting to have a game where you fight against the Yuuzahn Vong. According to the novels, all Vong warriors carry amphistaffs, so any enemy you fought you'd have the option of using guns, or an almost endless series of saber duels.

BTW StormHammer, that's an awesome sig. It had me rolling with laughter, it's so true.

Kurgan 04-14-2004 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by _PerfectAgent_
If you think Jedi Academy MP is fast, try Jedi Knight MP.
Amen to that, JK1 and MotS were maybe twice as fast (or faster, it's been awhile, so I'd have to do a side by side comparison to know for sure) as JA or JK2.

After you play JK1/MotS MP for awhile you feel like you're moving in slow motion with JK2/JA!

Trust me it doesn't need to be any slower. ; )

JediLiberator 04-15-2004 01:06 AM

I think what really needs to show up in the next Jk game is a more interactive saber combat. Blocking your opponents strikes should be your main defense, not jumping all over the place like a ping pong ball on crack. That and you should have to charge your jump a bit like in JK 1, that makes more sense since normally people have to bend their knees and get ready to leap before they do it. And make the special moves look somewhat practicle. It's silly to see someone killed from that butterfly move of the staff. Just my two cents.

Weiser_Cain 04-15-2004 01:58 AM

Absolutely and while we're at it lets have fatigue and force drain from all that nonsense. One of the things I've noticed is the horrible collision detection. I've lost a lot of duels where I clearly saw my saber go through both the neck and torso of my opponent.
I don't know how hard this will make the game but I'd like to actually have dismembernent be more common(like always) in the next game and for it to happen durring the fight instead of at the end.
And it should go without saying that I want the option to get a replacement for any dismembered limbs...
While lucas probably doesn't shift money around like that they did use capabilities for diffrent parts of the business when they made bounty hunter, and they could again...

Khier 04-15-2004 02:52 AM

Boy, some people in here have hit the nail on the head with most of those ideas, it seems as though Lucasarts should look into another JK game right this second.

The flowing robes and capes would be tres stylish, and I also thought of the levitation idea, in Obi Wan (only played it on xbox), you could send miscellaneous objects flying into your enemies in a force push type maneuver but it homed automatically towards your enemy. It would be really nifty to see something like that using the same physics and idea as the gravity gun in HL2.

I'm looking at this thread and thinking that it would be a damn shame and very disappointing if JA was the last Jedi Knight game.

Master_Keralys 04-15-2004 03:52 PM

Quotes Stormhammer verbatim

Other than that, I just want some really good hit detection and more interactive action with the saber (actually having to block and whatnot). Also, there have to be massive levels that you can explore, not just walk through linearly. And your actions determine your Force powers: the ones you use the most are the ones that build up the most and the fastest (so you start at lvl 1 with all of them, but if you never use a particular power, it stays insanely weak). Thus, you can have lvl 3 jump in no time b/c you use it all the time, etc. And definitely have civilian types and people who actually surrender, and then your actions regarding them determine your placement in the Force (along with what powers you use).

Weiser_Cain 04-15-2004 10:32 PM

I'd just like to add I don't want to be forced into learning any powers. For instance I don't like 'force throw'(I still insist vader was just really good when he threw his saber), I'd hate to be forced to learn this in order to compleat some puzzel...


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