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-   -   Who was affected by Order 66? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=149315)

Joetheeskimo 05-27-2005 07:06 AM

Who was affected by Order 66?
 
Do you think Republic Commandos obeyed? ARC Troopers? Since they've got more independence, it's possble (especially for the ARC's). It would be interesting if the ARC TRoopers refused to kill their leaders and instead defended them.

*Sigh* Wishful, thinking, I guess...

(I'm going to see it tonight. :D)

Jeff 05-27-2005 12:18 PM

Re: Who was affected by Order 66?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by joetheeskimo5
Do you think Republic Commandos obeyed? ARC Troopers? Since they've got more independence, it's possble (especially for the ARC's). It would be interesting if the ARC TRoopers refused to kill their leaders and instead defended them.

*Sigh* Wishful, thinking, I guess...

(I'm going to see it tonight. :D)

Probably not. Probably every clone was affected by the order, since they all serve the republic.

Cheech Marin 05-27-2005 12:44 PM

What I'm wondering is, if Order 66 is a genetic programming kind of thing, why didn't any red lights go off for the Kaminoans when they found out that their clones had a secret order to kill Jedi when they were told to?

Vader523 05-27-2005 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheech Marin
What I'm wondering is, if Order 66 is a genetic programming kind of thing, why didn't any red lights go off for the Kaminoans when they found out that their clones had a secret order to kill Jedi when they were told to?
Well the Kaminoans wouldnt really have a way of finding out. No one really visits their planet. Remember them waiting years and years just for a Jedi to come? There were no Jedi to go deliver the message to them, and the Empire of course wouldnt inform them. And even if they did find out and and stop clone production, the Empire had already begun recruiting as well as introducing new clone hosts by different cloners on different planets.

It does make me wonder why Yoda or Obi-Wan didnt send them a message telling them what had happened, then the Kaminoans could have helped the remaining Jedi by aiding them with their own army of clones. Well im thinking too far outside the box so I suppose ill stop now :p

El Sitherino 05-27-2005 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheech Marin
What I'm wondering is, if Order 66 is a genetic programming kind of thing, why didn't any red lights go off for the Kaminoans when they found out that their clones had a secret order to kill Jedi when they were told to?
An insider.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vader523
It does make me wonder why Yoda or Obi-Wan didnt send them a message telling them what had happened, then the Kaminoans could have helped the remaining Jedi by aiding them with their own army of clones. Well im thinking too far outside the box so I suppose ill stop now :p
*imagines the holorecording*

"YOU SONS OF BANTHAS! I HOPE YOU BLEED FOR THIS!"

fun stuff.

TK-8252 05-27-2005 06:32 PM

By the time of RotS the ARC Troopers had already been removed from combat and sent back to Kamino to pass on Jango's knowledge to the new Star Corps Clone Commanders.

The Republic Commandos didn't have much of a role in Order 66, since it's mainly for the clones who were assigned to a Jedi General, in which the commandos were not. But they probably recieved word that the time had come, and if they had came across a Jedi they'd kill them without hesitation (they had their independence modified same as the Clone Troopers, after all).

T10 06-03-2005 04:56 PM

Remember the line from EP2, when they are describing the clones? They were programmed for absoloute loyalty. That gave way for Order 66, and the cloners didn't care because, as Dexter hinted, they were only interested in the money.

Darth_Monkey11 08-21-2005 06:19 PM

emm...no they respected the rebublic,even though that they dont even though what going on!

Leviathan 08-30-2005 10:37 AM

They do not respect only the Republic, but those who respect them... (And who have enough money...)

TK-8252 08-30-2005 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviathan
They do not respect only the Republic, but those who respect them... (And who have enough money...)

If you're talking about the clones then not really, because remember the Jedi had respect for them and yet the clones gladly executed Order 66. You can't bribe them, either.

Edit: My bad.

jblue789 08-30-2005 03:37 PM

He was talking about the Kaminoans, I believe.

Leviathan 08-31-2005 08:43 AM

Yes, I talked about Kaminoans... :D

The Source 11-05-2005 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheech Marin
What I'm wondering is, if Order 66 is a genetic programming kind of thing, why didn't any red lights go off for the Kaminoans when they found out that their clones had a secret order to kill Jedi when they were told to?

Darth Sidious probally asked for a set of implanted commands, which he could use to control his army. Remember Episode II? When Obi-Wan visited Kamino, he was told that Darth Sidious ordered the army. Therefore, everyone involved, in the creation of the Clones, would have agreed to a set of implanted codes and commands. Otherwords, it was in their design. Every Clone would be affected regardless of their freedoms or status. Safe guard... Very wise!

Obi-Wan learned in Episode II that Kaminoans were out for credits. Therefore, they really don't care about what they are used for..

Kurgan 11-06-2005 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TK-8252
By the time of RotS the ARC Troopers had already been removed from combat and sent back to Kamino to pass on Jango's knowledge to the new Star Corps Clone Commanders.

The Republic Commandos didn't have much of a role in Order 66, since it's mainly for the clones who were assigned to a Jedi General, in which the commandos were not. But they probably recieved word that the time had come, and if they had came across a Jedi they'd kill them without hesitation (they had their independence modified same as the Clone Troopers, after all).


Pretty lame if you ask me. I think this is a convenient excuse to let the "heroic" troopers that people got to play as in games and idolize up until now go "untainted" by the actions of the Empire. I mean, who wants to see their heroes murder the Jedi so the bad guys take over?

It's sort of like how they gave Boba Fett this "sense of honor" and make him help out the good guys sometimes rather than just a greedy egomaniac who enjoys killing (like any good bounty hunter/mercenary!). ;)

Ah well, if I were in charge of the EU...!

The Doctor 11-06-2005 04:24 PM

Weren't the Clones "programmed" to be completely loyal to the Chancellor? They followed Order 66 because they were ordered to do so by the man who's orders they followed by instinct.

Kurgan 11-06-2005 08:18 PM

Of course. But the EU provides "wiggle room" for those who want to believe in "heroic clones who would never do such a thing" by saying they weren't all programmed to be completely loyal.

Thus they can have their Republic Commandos and ARC Troopers sitting on Kamino drinking coffee, without the vaguest inkling of what their brothers are up to.

Go figure... :P

JawaJoey 11-07-2005 01:56 AM

I've been playing BattleFront II the past few days, and the first half of the story campaign provides a unique perspective on this. The Clones (presumably all of them) were trained and ordered in a way that gave them impression that the Jedi weren't flawless, and could be fooled. The clones beleived that the Jedi were conspirators and were eventually going to mutiny. And no matter what the feelings or respect they had for their Jedi leaders, they knew all along that when the time came, they'd do the "right" thing and obey their orders.

Tanesh 11-07-2005 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurgan
Of course. But the EU provides "wiggle room" for those who want to believe in "heroic clones who would never do such a thing" by saying they weren't all programmed to be completely loyal.

Thus they can have their Republic Commandos and ARC Troopers sitting on Kamino drinking coffee, without the vaguest inkling of what their brothers are up to.

Go figure... :P

There's actually a short story (comic) called "Orders" from Ryan Kaufman about some Republic Commandos who indeed receive Order 66 and do what they have to - they kill their Jedi General ... One of them explains to a kid that they have nothing except each other and their orders (sometimes good, sometimes bad) which they have to follow.
So there are not only the "ordinary" troops, but also Commandos (and probably some ARCs, too) who obey orders without question and kill the Jedi.

DarthDementous 11-21-2005 08:44 PM

PLO KOON

MachineCult 11-22-2005 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacLeodCorp
Darth Sidious probally asked for a set of implanted commands, which he could use to control his army. Remember Episode II? When Obi-Wan visited Kamino, he was told that Darth Sidious ordered the army.

Jedi Master Sifo Dyas ordered the army ten years before Episode II, Obi-Wan also said he had been killed nearly ten years ago.

It's nothing to do with implants, if there were implants Darth Sidious wouldn't have to get on the comm and tell all the commanders. Sidious would probably have briefed the Clone Commanders that one day they would have to kill their Jedi Generals, he probably told them the same things he told the Senate. Then the Commanders briefed their Troops.

Prime 11-22-2005 10:49 AM

I can't remember where I have seen it, but I think it was a fairly official source (Insider maybe?) that stated that the clones were not genetically programmed to carry out Order 66, but conditioned to do so (and the clones were conditioned in the extreme sense). They were loyal to the Republic, not the Jedi directly. Order 66 indicated that the Jedi were in fact traitors to the Republic, and so the clones felt the need to eliminate that threat. In essense, the clones were just following orders to eliminate a threat to the Republic.

Darth_Terros 11-22-2005 02:06 PM

In the Dark lord novel some commandos actually allow some jedi to get away but tell them if they cross paths again they'll be forced to attack.

Its a brilliant book and a must read for all starwars fans!

PoiuyWired 12-01-2005 01:19 PM

Well, not just the Dark Lord... Think there is another source of Official EU that the clones deliberately let their Mark slips away. Well while the clones are conditioned and trained they are not like droids, as in they don't recieve regular memorywipes. That means some clones will develop some kind of attachment(or things like that) to a kind companion they serve over a long period of time. I guess that is also why most of the time clone teams seem to be switching from place to place, pairing with different commanders and jedis.

Kurgan 12-01-2005 01:36 PM

Leave it to the EU to try to undermine the movie. ;)

I guess they think its cooler if some of the Stormtroopers have a "heart" and can resist their genetic programming.

Next we'll be getting stories of the Battle Droids who resisted orders and escaped and/or joined the good guys out of remorse for their part in atrocities committed... if they haven't already!

Mono_Giganto 12-01-2005 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurgan
Next we'll be getting stories of the Battle Droids who resisted orders and escaped and/or joined the good guys out of remorse for their part in atrocities committed... if they haven't already!

Maybe part of C-3PO got left over in the battle droid head and body on Geonosis, and the Separatists just recycled it, giving us wussy Battle Droids who don't like to fight? :p

Prime 12-02-2005 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurgan
Leave it to the EU to try to undermine the movie. ;)

Indeed. I can see some troops being reluctant, but not outright defying orders. For one, I don't see how they could override their conditioning, and also if caught they would face serious repercussions.

SirLancelot 12-03-2005 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurgan
Leave it to the EU to try to undermine the movie. ;)

I guess they think its cooler if some of the Stormtroopers have a "heart" and can resist their genetic programming.

Next we'll be getting stories of the Battle Droids who resisted orders and escaped and/or joined the good guys out of remorse for their part in atrocities committed... if they haven't already!

The EU doesn't undermine the movie it just takes alternate paths. . .and makes some interesting stories, I think. A story based on clones resisting Order 66 would be intriguing.

Think outside the box. :lol:

Astrotoy7 12-11-2005 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurgan
Leave it to the EU to try to undermine the movie. ;)

Which world is full of black and white absolutes ? there are never always 100% certainties. Why cant some clonies deprogram, especially as the jedi were the main proponents of arguing for their independence. To give a real world example... there were indeed instances where Nazi soldiers aided jewish families rather than victimising/assaulting them.

Movies dont have the scope to go into these type of things. Its like the difference between the terk series and the trek movies for example. It will be the same for the SW series.... more room for characterisation will allow such interesting to emerge and be explored.

mtfbwya

Redtech 12-13-2005 07:43 AM

The phrases "Nazi" and "Jew sympathiser" don't work, I'm afraid. As soon as you start being one, you can't be the other.

As for clones, well, they're GENETICALLY ENGINERED ORGANISMS, they could have been programmed to do all this stuff, because why should the Kaminoans care? They're not loyal to anyone.

Prime 12-13-2005 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
Which world is full of black and white absolutes ?

Star Wars. :)

El Sitherino 12-13-2005 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redtech
They're not loyal to anyone.

Not true, we heard from Dex "it all depends, on how big your... pocket book is."

Darth_Extas 12-13-2005 01:03 PM

With the Terms I do think it is possible that they were somewhat programmed to act on once order 66 was commanded. It pas Palpatine who sent General Obi-won to talk about the cloning with the Kaminoions. So Palpatine could have planned it. As well I think Dooku had a part in the cloning so who knows what he did for the cloning.

MachineCult 12-13-2005 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Extas
With the Terms I do think it is possible that they were somewhat programmed to act on once order 66 was commanded. It pas Palpatine who sent General Obi-won to talk about the cloning with the Kaminoions.

What? No, no.
General Obi-Wan (not a General at the time) was NOT sent by Palpatine to "talk about the cloning" (!?) he had found out that the dart that killed Zam Wessell had come from Kamino, so he went there, the Republic had no idea about the Clone Army until Obi-Wan told the Council about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Extas
So Palpatine could have planned it. As well I think Dooku had a part in the cloning so who knows what he did for the cloning.

Of course Palpatine planned it, he engineered the Clone Wars so he could take complete power. Dooku ordered the Clone Army, posing as Sifo Dyas who he had killed, something like that...

Redtech 12-14-2005 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Sith
Not true, we heard from Dex "it all depends, on how big your... pocket book is."

That isn't loyalty, that's business. Heck, if the CIS knew about the clones first, they could have bought them out.

Take mercenaries, they're not there to make anyone happy, but the money's good.

Darth_Extas 12-14-2005 03:21 PM

Machine that is partial, because Count Dooku(When he was a Jedi Master) was sent to Kamino to use Jango Fett as a template for the clones. Palpatine has full knowledge of the Cloning. But just before CIS was founded Count Dooku joined with Palpatine. I am getting this from the official records from the official website.

Kurgan 12-17-2005 03:40 AM

It's just such a well worn cliche in the EU... the good guy who has a "past" as a former bad guy drone. I guess once they brought Vader back to the "good side" that opened the floodgates! Every edgy anti-hero who was too good to get fooled by the bad guy's mind control that fooled everyone else...

Hey I liked Kyle Katarn, but back then it was still sort of interesting. Now everybody's a reformed evil-doer. Can't the bad guys have a plan that works for once?

The EU is supposed to expand things yes, but all to often it takes a good idea and totally runs it into the ground, or else just tries to undermine it. Not always but enough to make me think they're not even trying sometimes!

Redtech 12-19-2005 11:05 AM

Well, that's Star Wars for you.

Have I ever mentioned that I used to be an evildooer, but not I've become a good guy with a dark past who has a conflict with my dark side? :P

Cercueil 12-19-2005 02:29 PM

for the record: im a good guy that people seem to think is evil. however, there was this one time I almost fell to the dark side that which is the rebellion when they took my holonet access away and transfered me to this distant planet, but three days later I hear the station I used to work on was destroyed by some rebels near Yavin...whos to look a gift Bantha in the mouth, i say.

Darth_Death 01-06-2006 06:24 PM

but since a jedi (cant remember his names) asked the kamino guys wouldn't clones have loyalty to a jedi

TK-8252 01-06-2006 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Death
but since a jedi (cant remember his names) asked the kamino guys wouldn't clones have loyalty to a jedi

The army was made for the Republic, not the Jedi.


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