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-   -   Ebon Hawk versus Another Ship (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=153710)

RobQel-Droma 10-12-2005 04:50 PM

Ebon Hawk versus Another Ship
 
Inspired by the *cough* friendly *cough* discussion *cough* *cough* :lol: in the thread: Good KotOR idea. Do you want to stick with the Ebon Hawk, or do you want a new ship?

Prime 10-12-2005 04:57 PM

Love the Hawk. Stik wit it!

The Doctor 10-12-2005 05:00 PM

KEEP THE EBON HAWK! THE HAWK RULES!

Bob Lion54 10-12-2005 05:45 PM

I vote "Stick with it."

Iv'e become quite fond of her. (though some upgrades would be cool!)

Killwithhonor 10-12-2005 06:49 PM

That would be very cool if you could upgrade your ship! that would add alot to the game!

DarthLinde 10-12-2005 08:35 PM

paint jobs would be awesome!

Johnny Couth 10-12-2005 08:42 PM

Keep it, but give it some sweet new swag.

Kain 10-12-2005 09:01 PM

The Hawk sucks.

TheGreenGoblin 10-12-2005 09:05 PM

Keep the Hawk, its the falcon of KoTOR, but I do think it should be destroyed to mark the end of KoTOR (or at least this story arc) that way later, they can start totally fresh.

Hallucination 10-13-2005 12:32 AM

Keep the Hawk, but I wanna see some interior changes, like a shag carpet.

fresnosmokey02 10-13-2005 12:54 AM

Keep the Hawk. If not, we will still get something similar. Size and capacity matters. Just makes sense for something along these lines for carrying a small group of people around. Why would you need anything different?

IndianaSolo 10-13-2005 01:42 AM

I'm torn. On one hand the Ebon Hawk is a staple of the series. But on the other hand I'd like to see something new.

I guess whichever works best with the story is fine with me, whether that be a new ship or a return of the Ebon Hawk.

YertyL 10-13-2005 02:21 AM

Well, if I prefer the Hawk or another ship strongly depends on the other ship ;)
So undecided for now.

Vibro 10-13-2005 07:35 AM

I like the Ebon hawk but I think it's time for a new ship.

Vladimir-Vlada 10-13-2005 07:37 AM

Keep the Ebon Hawk! But add the ability to upgrade it with... anything. Literraly. :D

SITHSLAYER133 10-13-2005 07:43 AM

i thaught this thread would be about the hawk figtin another ship

its like the Falcon from star wars so i say keep it

Venom750 10-13-2005 08:37 AM

I say have the hawk don't know how there bring it in thou because it fell into the depths of malachor if your DS but if it did keep i'd like to be able to fly it like Luke does and jedi are know for there excellant piloting skills.

ChAiNz.2da 10-13-2005 09:23 AM

Stick with it.

BUT:

- Add storage! Put the containers back in there!

- Add the floor panel "smuggler compartment" that the Falcon had (and possibly incorporate it into a mini-mission)

- Add "engine troubles" much like the Falcon had. The Hawk & Falcon are freighter ships, never meant to do what they do now. Make engine wear-n-tear a factor in the game rather than planet hopping like there's nothing to worry about.

- Put my damn swoop bike back in there ;) hehehe.. I miss the decor

- If they stick with the benches. Put a Lab bench in the medical area?? I'm still wondering why neither game had one (without mods of course.. hehe)

All in all, just make the Hawk more part of the game rather than the empty hull that provides scenery from one planet to the other. I like the Hawk, but I'd enjoy it more if my PC and Party were more involved with it...

Prime 10-13-2005 10:12 AM

I say bring back the turrent mini-game...

Kain 10-13-2005 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da
The Hawk & Falcon are freighter ships, never meant to do what they do now.

Hey RobQel, I told you the Ebon Hawk was a freighter.

RobQel-Droma 10-13-2005 11:29 AM

Alright, you are right about that.

Bastila 10-13-2005 12:36 PM

Got to stick with the Hawk!

IndianaSolo 10-13-2005 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da
Stick with it.

BUT:

- Add storage! Put the containers back in there!

- Add the floor panel "smuggler compartment" that the Falcon had (and possibly incorporate it into a mini-mission)

- Add "engine troubles" much like the Falcon had. The Hawk & Falcon are freighter ships, never meant to do what they do now. Make engine wear-n-tear a factor in the game rather than planet hopping like there's nothing to worry about.

- Put my damn swoop bike back in there ;) hehehe.. I miss the decor

- If they stick with the benches. Put a Lab bench in the medical area?? I'm still wondering why neither game had one (without mods of course.. hehe)

All in all, just make the Hawk more part of the game rather than the empty hull that provides scenery from one planet to the other. I like the Hawk, but I'd enjoy it more if my PC and Party were more involved with it...

I've always felt the Ebon Hawk should be more vital to the actual game. I think they've misused the fact it's got storage compartments. They could have given each character an inventory weight limit and thus made them use the Ebon Hawk storage to keep all other items they couldn't carry. It would add another level of strategy to the game where a player needed to decide which items to bring with him and which to leave behind, risking not being able to reach the EH for a while.

Darth Serebus 10-13-2005 02:15 PM

if not have an alternate ship like the x-wing which can also be used in the game. This will give diversity in it. I also thingthere should be more space battles as well.

Kain 10-13-2005 03:35 PM

The X-Wing was brand new at the Battle of Yavin - 4000 years after KotOR.

Venom750 10-13-2005 03:52 PM

He said like the X-wing not an actually X-wing

joshua05 10-13-2005 04:32 PM

Here's my thoughts...Well..FIRST: I vote to keep the Ebon Hawk.

Here are my thoughts:

Star Wars Trilogy (episode 4-6) = Millenium Falcon

Star Wars Episode 1 = Nubian

Knights of the Old Republic (1-2) = Ebon Hawk

>>>Since, the Millenium Falcon is in the 3 original SW films...it wouldn't only be sufficient for the [i]Ebon Hawk[/] to be in the 3 KOTOR games!

[move]Joshua[/move]

'Save your thanks...I've never left anyone on a mission, and I sure as heck am not going to start now!' -Carth Onasi; Knights of the Old Republic

chaleur 10-14-2005 12:10 AM

I put myself in the "I don't care" camp, but that's a bit of a misnomer. I do care. I'd be really happy to have the Hawk again. On the other hand, it'd be need to have a new ship, with new stories, new areas to explore, and stuff to discover. Then again, I'd love to discover more about the Hawk. So I do care, but I'd be happy with either.

Kain 10-14-2005 12:25 AM

All I'm saying is that the freighter angle - kinda like beating a dead horse. I'd much rather have the chance to pilot one of those Leviathan style cruisers.

RedHawke 10-14-2005 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain
I'd much rather have the chance to pilot one of those Leviathan style cruisers.

That's nice and all, I would love to see this in a future SW RPG, possibly one where you play a Pirate Captain or a Merchant with a Fleet. But it is far out of the league of a Knights of the Old Republic game... Small craft tend to go unnoticed, and fits the RPG style story better.

Besides from just a pure rules perspective there is no way you are going to give a low level character a Capital Ship? You can't, that is pure Monty Haul style play. If you aquired one it would have to be for a higher level character for the end game only, either a Republic ship for LS or a Sith Leviathan for DS. But there is no way we could have one for any sort of free play adventuring, a game really changes when you aquire a Capital Ship. Not to mention that Capital ships are quite expensive to operate, whereas the small craft are reitively cheap.

Take the Corellian Corvette/Blockade Runner, a basic Capital Ship, depending on it's loadout it requires a crew of 65 to a max of 185, let's go with the minimum amount here for the example, you need 65 crewers... you have to pay these crew, this isn't "no money" Star Trek, in Star Wars sentient crewers want to be paid, and crew loyalty is highly influenced by their pay, and or their cut.

Now the average monthly pay for an enlisted crewer is around 500 to 750 credits, Specialists* average 750 to 1,000 credits, and Officers get 1,250 to 1,500 credits, this is paid monthly and being it is base you get no extra loyalty.

*Specialists encompass your people who specialise in Enginnering, Gunnery, Piloting, Command Operations, etc.

So figuring that out of 65 crew for your Corvette, you need around 33 basic crewers, 25 Specialists, and 7 Officers... this comes to...

33 X 500 = 16,500
25 X 750 = 18,750
7 X 1,250 = 8,750
Total = 44,000 Credits Per Month (+1 to Crew Loyalty for every 50% Increase in their wage, or share of prizes if you are a pirate)

So you have 44,000 credits in just base crew pay, plus the thousands of credits for Docking fees, Maintinance, Consumables, etc. The average cost for a non-pirate Corvette like this, with a +2 crew loyalty, runs you around 125,000 credits per month total...

Now how will we be able to support that in a KOTOR style RPG storyline?

Now a small craft costs only a few hundred credits a month at most**, that is why we are tooling around the galaxy in the Ebon Hawk light freighter in the KOTOR series, because the game developers need to take none of what I listed above into account, they can just tell you the story and let us fly the galaxy in this little freighter. ;)

** If you all remember in KOTOR I we did have to occasionaly pay docking fees. In TSL the reason the Ebon Hawk is a little run down, and we have T3-M4 in the party fixing the ship is to avoid these accountantcy issues. :)

Just my 2 cents! :D

Aurora Merlow 10-14-2005 04:16 AM

Don't know why but i just like the hawk so i'd stick with that

Vladimir-Vlada 10-14-2005 05:58 AM

Maybe adding the ability to repair, refuel, supply with upgrades. But the greatest wish for the Ebon Hawk is:

Please make it pilotable mannualy in space. If not vehicles, then please make the Ebon Hawk flyable. :(

RobQel-Droma 10-14-2005 10:25 AM

Yeah, I think that would be cool if you had too beat off attacking ships, and then go to the cockpit because the pilot is injured and have to fly it through an asteroid field or something.

And RedHawke, I agree completely. I have thought about the costs and problems with flying around on a capital ship, but you really got into that even more. No, I would not want to pay 44,000 credits, not to mention all the rest from docking fees and such. If the Ebon Hawk has to pay around 100-200 credits for a docking fee, what what would a capital ship have to pay? And besides, it would be very annoying, as far as getting down to planets. Load, walk to the shuttle bay, get in, load, fly down, get out, then come back, get in, load, fly up, load, then get out and go to the bridge.

Kain 10-14-2005 11:13 AM

Dude, if the game continues as Revan then why wouldn't he be at the helm of a captial ship. And if your this big bad Dark Jedi(in my case), loyalty doesn't come from pay - it comes from fear; Darth Vader style. Docking fees? I'll leave the beast in orbit and fly down in my customized shuttle. They want to get lippy about it? I'll bombard their planet; Darth Malak style. See where I'm going with this? Light Side characters - keep the freighter. Dark Side - lets get to captial cruisin!

RobQel-Droma 10-14-2005 11:30 AM

It could work out that way. At the end, you defeat the Jedi and get a capital ship, actually get to bombard some places. If I am going super dark side, it would be ok at the end of the game. But about Revan, thats right, IF it starts with him, maybe, but he went off in the Unknown Regions to search for the enemy, so why would he waltz into their with a capital ship and a crew? I understood he went alone, so it wouldn't make much sense.

Kain 10-14-2005 03:06 PM

It wouldn't be hard to pilot a captial ship alone. The problems come when your being attacked from all sides.

DarkMe 10-14-2005 03:37 PM

What would be the best for me would be if you could go to the shop en buy your own ship and could customize it when you would want to... or you could still a ship when your in space>> look at your starmap see some ships chose one an go in blasting something like it... (if you want to buy a ship and its to expensive there should be some jobs around that pay well!!))

The Doctor 10-14-2005 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain
All I'm saying is that the freighter angle - kinda like beating a dead horse. I'd much rather have the chance to pilot one of those Leviathan style cruisers.

Just to add to what RedHawke said, can you imagine trying to explore a Capital Ship, or haveoing your companions spead out across the entire ship? I agree, the freighter idea is getting a litle old.

Rok_stoned 10-14-2005 06:09 PM

I really hate the ebon hawk at first i thought "oh a falcon clone, well it could get worse..." then I thought "WTF that thing is still here it wasn't good to begin with whys it still here?" now i think wtf even the people IIN game say thats a wellfare ship im like STFU i'm stuck with this crap barge.

RedHawke 10-15-2005 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
And RedHawke, I agree completely. I have thought about the costs and problems with flying around on a capital ship, but you really got into that even more.

Yup! :D My PnP Gaming group had it all worked out... we had a campaign where we scrapped the Force and Lightsabers, and played a group of Freighter Captains, Bounty Hunters, and Scouts... tried our hands at hauling cargo, and modifying our ships.

We hauled cargoes or hunted bounties and etc. building our funds, maxing out our initial ships, eventually we grew big enough to aquire capital ships, but as we did the game changed, we had to do bigger loads/bigger bounties and take more risks, just to make ends meet. It was fun but the bookeeping eventually led us to character retirement.

At retirement my Bounty Hunter (Who started with Mando Armor, and a Firespray class Patrol craft, aka Slave I) had an Imperial II Star Destroyer, 2 Imperial I's, 6 Victory II's, 3 Container Ships, and 36 Bulk Freighters... my monthly outlay was around 15+/- Million credits... My ships were heavily slave rigged and Droid crewed, my living crew were just the specialists and officers to cut costs. Droids cost about half as much as normal crew, though I spent extra, I had some very well maintained droids and spoiled but highly skilled living crews. And don't think for a minute that those monthly expenses encompassed everything, but with 3 container ships you could make a sizeable profit, being they each hold several million MT of cargo.

I did an Ice run to Tatooine once with that fleet, but that is another story... :D

Capital Ships aren't easy to own and operate... and rightfully so.

@ Kain, sorry man I just don't see it. One cannot rule by fear alone. :)


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