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StaffSaberist 10-14-2005 02:52 PM

StaffSaberist: Newest addition to the editing Force
I have been learning well to use GtkRadiant 1.5.0. I am trying to learn how to create a door. I created a frame, built a double-door. So far, so good. I assign a door func_door. I check it in the entity inspector. It says: func_door. Good! I leave Entity inspector and hit ESC to assign the other door the func_door. After I do this, I attempt to select both doors to assign them a team so they open at the same time. But when I do, the keys are blank! I check each individual door; the func_door is gone! I tested this out, and it seems that if I hit ESC after assigning func_door, the func_door is lost. Why does this happen?

Thanks for the help,

StaffSaberist :lsduel:

riceplant 10-15-2005 12:45 PM

Well, you don't need that runner at all. Try a screenshot of Radiant showing the door, the surrounding geometry, and the entity window.

Tinny 10-15-2005 01:06 PM

Quick question, is gtkradiant 1.5 better than the gtkradiant 1.4? I heard some people complain about the transition. What makes it worse/better?

StaffSaberist 10-15-2005 02:07 PM

Don't know the difference. I just got started with Radiant yesterday. Anyway, I've taken a screenshot, but the rules say I cannot attach a file in this thread. Hmm. Why not? I didn't set it that way.

MDN14 10-15-2005 03:24 PM

I use 1.4 because that is what it tells me to use on the GTK web site when I go to the download selector and put in Jedi Academy and stable. So I have no idea if your problem lies in 1.5 or what, cause I have never had any kind of problem like this with 1.4. It might possibly be something to do with your view settings, maybe it is set to not show doors, or entities in general and that is why it seems to dissapear.

lassev 10-15-2005 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by StaffSaberist
Anyway, I've taken a screenshot, but the rules say I cannot attach a file in this thread.

You have to host the picture somewhere else and use the image tags to display it here.

And I would recommend GTK 1.4, because that's the stable version.

StaffSaberist 10-15-2005 04:39 PM

OK, here it is:

In this image, you see the door in XY view. In the 3D view, the door head-on, with the stone door-frame. The properties for entity "func_door" are open. I have player_use on, and I have angle set to 90. I originally set it to "left" and it is set to left now. So, ignore the "Angle 90" bit; I changed it to "left".

lassev 10-15-2005 05:42 PM

You set Angle to "left"? What does that exactly mean? You can only set angle to to a number from -360 to 360 to have any sensible results, as far as I know. And "left" doesn't make much sense anyway; left depends on the observer's position.

StaffSaberist 10-15-2005 05:56 PM

:hang1: That's what the tutorial told me to do -- I think. It's the Q3Radiant tutorial. :hang1: So, what do I do to get the doors working?

StaffSaberist 10-15-2005 06:00 PM

Here's what the tutorial said:

"Now set the Angle for the door to open. For the left door, have the door move... left. (: For the right, right. Assign an angle to each door in the same way that you assign an angle to info_player_start."

lassev 10-15-2005 07:16 PM

I don't want to appear as a mini-mod, but you should cut down the number of double posts a little.

And the tutorial seems perfectly valid. The author of the tutorial cannot know which way the door in your own map faces (or is supposed to move when opening), so he can only tell to make it move left or right (or up or down). It's up to you to figure out the correct numerical angle value.

StaffSaberist 10-15-2005 07:53 PM

:lol: Just realized that I have all my posts in pairs. OK. I'm deleting half of them. Just to be nice. ;) OK, I'll try a number. BRB.

EDIT - Ok. It still doesn't work. I have the door set as follows:

classname func_door
angle 180

Anything else I need? I'll try a few other settings. BTW, what do you mean when you say 1.4.0 is more stable than 1.5.0?

EDIT II - W00t! I set it to "90" and it worked! Surprised me, actually. Now, back to the tutorial. I hate "silent" doors.

MDN14 10-15-2005 10:57 PM

180 didnt work because according to your pic 180 would be backwards, and there is no brush behind the door for it to use as a reference for how far it should move. 90 works because the angle of 90 would be up on the 2d grid, and there is a brush there next to it so it knows how far to move.

As for the stable thing, 1.4 is the stable JA version. Look at the download selector:

Check windows, check stable, and click on Jedi Academy (it is down near the bottom), then click check for files. It should tell you to get 1.4.0

StaffSaberist 10-15-2005 11:34 PM

OK. But what is "stable" exactly? What does that mean? What are the implacations? I ask because I do have 1.4.0, but didn't use it since I have 1.5.0.

MDN14 10-15-2005 11:53 PM

Not completely sure. But 1.4 probably has less "features" and it wont crash as much. Plus the 1.4 is MEANT for Jedi Academy mapping.

StaffSaberist 10-16-2005 12:01 AM

Um... 1.5 doesn't crash on mine. Sure, it's taking a **** of a long time to compile right now, but that's because I'm into some latter phases of compilation. What I have is a map where all the instructions for the tutorials go. :) So far, I've got some interesting stuff (neon blue water, for example) but not a publishable map. Doors was one project, and I just added a switch. I hope. Next is NPC spawning. That'll bring framerate back to 90...

But one thing I noticed is that if I de-select a trigger, for example, and come back later, I have to go to the entity list. If I just Shift-click, it gives the properties of the textures, not the entity itself.

Thank you for the help,

StaffSaberist :lsduel:

lassev 10-16-2005 03:57 AM


Originally Posted by StaffSaberist
Anything else I need? I'll try a few other settings. BTW, what do you mean when you say 1.4.0 is more stable than 1.5.0?

Versions with even numbers are stable releases, versions with odd numbers are kind of beta releases.

If you know programming, programs are at some point labeled "stable" after they have gone through thorough enough beta testing and all small errors and bugs are fixed. 1.5 does have features that aren't possibly stable enough for it to be called a stable version (1.6).

StaffSaberist 10-16-2005 04:02 PM

Ah. Well, I'll probably keep 1.5 for some time. After all, if I run into a bug, I can just save it, open it in 1.4, and bingo! I can find a 1.4 equivalent. As for now, I am in basic lessons, as I am sure you guessed, so I will not run into problems... yet.

EDIT - I ram into another issue. I am trying to create a switch for the door. I have done the following:

1 - Created a brush with a switch texture
2 - Created a trigger_multiple around the switch
3 - Targeted the switch at the door
4 - Set the trigger_multiple to "playeronly" and "playeruse"
5 - Compiled

Did I do something wrong, here?

Never mind, I got it.

shukrallah 10-16-2005 10:03 PM

Well, if the editor has some bad programming in it in a certain spot, it doesn't matter if your map is 100% perfect, it will crash. 1.4.0 probably wouldn't give you these strange bugs, because to be honest, I don't know what your talking about. (Im not talking about your level, but GTK Radiant itself)

I know 1.5.0 is cool, Im sure they will release 1.6.0 soon... then you can have the cool features and it will be bug free.

BTW, Lassev, is that odd = beta and even = stable for all programs, or just GTK? Thats pretty cool, I never knew that, nor noticed it. Heh, you learn something new every day :)

lassev 10-17-2005 03:55 AM


Originally Posted by lukeskywalker1
BTW, Lassev, is that odd = beta and even = stable for all programs, or just GTK? Thats pretty cool, I never knew that, nor noticed it.

I never knew about such a thing before somebody mentioned it to me. To be honest it seems a bit dubious, because I have never heard of such a thing with any program, and it may be unwise of me to spread such information... But well, I'll leave it for you to decide whether to believe it or not...

Hmm... When I read Radiant FAQ now, it doesn't mention a thing like this at all... Maybe I was fooled back then when this was mentioned to me. Well, the Net is a wealth of misinformation.

MDN14 10-17-2005 09:57 AM

3 - Targeted the switch at the door

Did you target the switch brush or the trigger_multiple at the door? Because the trigger is what needs to have the target, the brush wont do anything unless you make it into something like a func_button

StaffSaberist 10-17-2005 06:17 PM

I said I got it. Here was the odd thing:

It says that CTRL-K is "Target". It's been that way since Q3Radiant. But I need to set up the target manually for some reason. That's fine with me, though: "t3" isn't as descriptive as "stormie_squad_alpha". Ditto for spotlights; for some reason, the spotlight disappears when I target it at info_null, unless I do it manually.

shukrallah 10-17-2005 06:49 PM

strange... has to be a bug. You can also check at the top, view -> filter and see if anything is filtered out...

StaffSaberist 10-17-2005 07:30 PM

Filtered out? Why would anyything be filtered out? All I have noticed is that when I do a "meta" (no lighting) compile, besides the room being an ugly full bright, there are some ammo and recharges missing. Compiling in a better, but longer, compile puts them back in. Odd. anyhow, I'll check that out.

And now, an OFF TOPIC QUESTION. How do I put in music? The tutorial says:

"To access worldspawn, press ESC to deselect all entities, and then press the N Key to bring up the entity window. Scroll down the list and select worldspawn at the very end. That's it! From worldspawn, you can set music, change the gravity, and a variety of BSP options."

Ooookay, that's wonderful. Now, what key is that? Normally, it tells me these things. Not this time. Would it be something like... (key)music (value)musicname.mp3? And what if I wanted separate battle music? Like (key)music_fight (value)othermusicname.mp3?

wedge2211 10-17-2005 11:58 PM

Key: music
Value: path/from/base/to/music.mp3

For example, for mymap.mp3 in the base/music folder, enter "music/mymap.mp3" and you'll be all set. The track will loop. You can only get dynamic music in single player, and I think you can't redefine the sets used.

StaffSaberist 10-18-2005 12:19 AM

But if I make a SP level (which I am doing) What about the battle music. For example, in the JA level where Rax takes your lightsaber, you hear sinister but quiet music in the background. Then, when Stormies see you, the music becomes a Star Wars theme-type song. How do I do that?

lassev 10-18-2005 03:13 AM

For SP purposes, have a look at dms.dat in ext_data. And nothing prevents editing that file, of course.

You should also search this forum for dynamic music. It's a pretty quirky subject altogether, and I don't certainly feel like trying to sum it up here.

StaffSaberist 10-18-2005 09:02 AM

Not going to ask you to. Well, I did, but that was when I thought that was simple. For now, the simple music will suffice. I will have a look at dynamic music when I finish this project, which I have decided to touch up and release when I'm done. When I say "touch up" of course, I mean overhaul. I have stuff in there I don't need, I gotta learn to make cutscenes, re-do the textures, make it look less like a n00b level, (less boxy) and the monster job, for me, anyhow: I gotta learn to script. Especially for the storyline that just struck me like a lightning bolt. :)

But that is for another thread, another time. For now, I'll finish the barest bones, and go back over it till it looks like a professional level that Raven would drool over. I know, a lot of n00bs said that for their first level, right? :lol:

lassev 10-18-2005 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by StaffSaberist
But that is for another thread, another time. For now, I'll finish the barest bones, and go back over it till it looks like a professional level that Raven would drool over. I know, a lot of n00bs said that for their first level, right? :lol:

Actually, you are the first one to say that...

If you have a copy of JO lying around, you can download the SP level Colosseum by Clu, and have a look at the amount and quality of work that was needed to actually gain the attention of Raven...

StaffSaberist 10-18-2005 09:26 AM

I'll d/l in a minute. Got the compiler running to test a new room...

EDIT - Holy $#!t! That's AWESOME. But you know, I don't actually aim to get Raven's attention. I merely said that to show how much effort I intend to put in this level (levelset, perhaps?) in taking what is now an unfinished box level, and turn it into a true eye-opener. At least for a first level. Currently, this is, as I've said before, a level to test out new ideas. Not so much a level on it's own. But, as long as I'm doing this, I may as well do it right.

Oh, BTW, the music I chose has a problem. When I load the map, it says on the console:

MP3 ERROR: Bad or unsupported file name "LOTR.mp3"

Or something like that. In fact, I shamelessly ripped an mp3 from another pk3, though I won't release the level like that. It works fine on the other pk3, why not my map? I'll try a few other files and see what happens.

shukrallah 10-18-2005 10:36 PM


I gotta learn to script.
Yeah, I remember that feeling. I picked up pretty quick though, Im sure you'll do the same. ICARUS is an easy language... mostly.... umm yeah... sometimes there are some crazy problems but I always found unusual work arounds. Some people don't like that, but crap, if it works it works...

You'll be surprised at how you can make your level come alive with scripting, its really cool! :)

StaffSaberist 10-19-2005 06:38 PM

There is a definite need for scripting. Here is my current storyline. I wanted to develop t3_rift a bit, so:

After the defeat of MARKA RAGNOS, the Jedi have begun the task of undoing the draining of the force. Using the shards of the shattered scepter, the Jedi have restored Force Auaras to the places the Cultists drained.

At the Rift Valley, where MASTER KORR defeated the cultists long ago, new chambers have been discovered. As the Jedi explore these chambers, the IMPERIAL REMANT attacks, along with the last of Desann's Reborn. The Jedi are overwhelmed, and flee. Finally, they are driven into a dead-end room, and trapped. The Jedi make a desperate last stand, to save their lives...

To this end, I am using the t3_rift terrain, models, texture, lighting, etc. Now, I would love a cutscene where the Remnant advances on the Jedi, and attacks. Then, I need the Reborn to launch over the river, and the Jedi to fly into countering Force-leaps. I also need to fix the fact that as of now, the Reborn run into the river, and just stand there and drown. :p I also want a few... interesting... cutscenes which can lead to side-plots, perhaps. I'm going slowly, though, since real life interferes constantly. High School is okay, but I am enjoying mapping, slow as it is. When I get 25% done, I'll see about screenshots.

My goal as far as graphics goes is to make it exactly like Raven's t3_rift, but make it a different map, architecture-wise. I also want to make the texturing as close as I can get. I have taken several dozen screenshots of the actual map, and compared with my map, adjusting as necessary. So my first goal is to complete the map, and then do some scripts and cutscenes.

I work on this map every day, and since it's on my own, I cannot predict this map being done before the anniversary of the beginning of this project. See, I will break the n00b tradition of posting boxy work. I will slap together absolutely NOTHING. Time, and precarious work and effort will mark this project as one to remember for the rest of my life. Anyway, I'm gonna get back to work. Would be nice to have a WIP section around here... Oh, wait, there is. I'll think about that when I have a good-sized amount done. :)

wedge2211 10-19-2005 06:42 PM


Originally Posted by StaffSaberist
As the Jedi explore these chambers, the IMPERIAL REMANT attacks, along with the last of Desann's Reborn.

Man, those Reborn have been hard to get rid of... ;)

Good to see you starting with a fully fleshed-out idea. I hope you've got a good handle on designing the map to go with it. In my experience, building a map is infinitely easier if you start with a layout on paper.

lassev 10-19-2005 06:50 PM


Originally Posted by StaffSaberist
...along with the last of Desann's Reborn. ...

We will never see the last of the reborn! Never! They survive and persist, no matter how unsightly paths or actions they must take. They will be the last ones standing and laughing while Luke's sorry excuse for a Jedi Academy crumbles to dust...

StaffSaberist 10-19-2005 08:09 PM

I wrote a long reply - TWICE NOW - and the d@mn thing locked up on me. So, a few spoilers were destroyed. I think the internet gods din't want me to reveal it. Oh well...

The Reborn will only be eradicated if there is a better enemy out there. For now, I'm using what Raven gave me. Cultists are out of the question; this takes place after the destruction of the scepter. Anyway, I intend to make 4 difficulty levels: N00b, Easy, Standard, and Expert. The Expert level is expected to be a fight for your framerate level at first, while a monkey could beat N00b level. Just to please Box-creators everywhere... ;)

shukrallah 10-19-2005 10:34 PM

Nice, you could even edit the menus to say "n00b" instead of padawan, and the same for the rest. :) Its not too tough, but yeah, I would do that last.

StaffSaberist 10-19-2005 10:45 PM

Oh, don't worry, I'm putting everything after the map.

Oh, no! I have problems that could prove fatal. I am missing about 1/4 of my shaders in Radiant! The texture for the pillars reads "Shader Image Missing". As well as that, I am missing some texturing for those cool crystal pillars... YOU KNOW WHAT?!? I'VE HAD IT! TO HECK WITH 1.5!!!!!!

I loaded 1.4 and the textures were all there. Oh, this pisses me off. This really pisses me off bad. OK, I'm gonna load up my map and continue from there. Now I know what the complaints for 1.5 are. At least, this is mine. When half the flamin' textures fail to load... *angry grunt*

EDIT - I was worrying about room one being too boxy. It was, after all, a cube... I looked at t3_rift closely (and admittedly played it through 'cause it's fun) and saw the one room where you fight three reborn_new at once, then use force seeing/pull to open the huge door. I used NOCLIP to look at the archi... and it was nothing more than an octagon! A cube with cut corners! If Raven can do that... why can't I? ;)

wedge2211 10-20-2005 12:59 PM

Part of the trick is putting details IN the octagon so that it doesn't just look like an octagon. Put trim around the floor and cieling, pillars, lamps, that it's not just a geometric prism. That's what we mean by boxmap, just a PURE octagon and nothing else.

I wrote a long teatise on Map-Review on mapping style and architecture. You might want to check it out. Seems like you've got your heart set on not being the typical n00b mapper, and I applaud you for that. Take it all the way--there's no reason your first map can't be great. The only way that "first map" comes into the picture is that we can still expect more of you the next time around!

StaffSaberist 10-20-2005 06:27 PM

I took 3 dozen screenshots of the t3_rift map. About a half-dozen were of that one octagonal room. I noted the features that the room had. I feel like I'm answering test questions, but the room had:

* Raised floor corners
* Pillars in the center of the room
* Doors that led nowhere, but were brushes in the game
* Crystal pillars with entity lighting
* Two exits from the room

Sadly, the last one is impossible. The room is explicitly a dead-end. Otherwise, the Jedi would keep running. I plan to put all the other features in there so that it doesn't look like a prism. I am also building a tunnel out of the room and leading to the rest of the map. The first room is the ONLY room seperate from the rest of the map. Anyway, the tunnel is almost an exact copy of Raven's t3_rift tunnel. Down to the trim. Which was difficult, since the room went up and left, and I had a heckuva time getting the inside corner to look good. And it still needs work. For now, I am focusing on the first room. I almost have the geometry of the walls in place, and the texture is in place so far. I built a pillar, but it will be recycled. It will go somewhere else in the map.

I may be forced to have the first room be it's own level, and the rest of the map a second (and possibly third) and a cutscene between the first and second. My reasoning is this: For my idea, the new Dark Lord (oops, gave it away ;) ) sends forth a large number of troops to finish off the Jedi. At Expert level, it may be as many as 25 NPC's going at each other! The Reborn, the Stormies, you, the Jedi allies... I will need to take massive steps to ensure that framerate remains good. I have scrapped the river, a neat and tidy solution to the drowning Reborn. Then, I may keep Level I as just the first room. Level II will contain a fraction of the remainder, etc.

Level I is just too much geometry to allow the entire level in one sitting. Even on Expert, I will not send 15 against you at once, though I may come close. So, after I build the first room, I will kick-start my learning of ICARUS. So, I have a few questions:

1 - Do I need ICARUS to go between levels?
2 - Do I need ICARUS to create cutscenes?
3 - What is the most recent version of ICARUS?

shukrallah 10-20-2005 07:05 PM


1 - Do I need ICARUS to go between levels?
No, but you can use ICARUS.


2 - Do I need ICARUS to create cutscenes?


3 - What is the most recent version of ICARUS?
Ummm... Meh, I don't know. The latest version comes with the JKA MP SDK. Search for that on

ICARUS is language, BehavEd is the editor. Heres a link to Kengo's scripting tutorials-

Its for JK2, so the setup part is slightly inaccurate, but if you have questions just post away.

Heres some other stuff: - when I started learning scripting. Useful info. :) - another one

Hope these help a bit when you start...

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