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-   -   Magna Guard VM (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=157875)

NeoMarz1 01-03-2006 10:00 AM

Magna Guard VM
 
:angel: :angel: :angel: New Project :angel: :angel: :angel:

O.K., so I'm gonna finally start working on this thing. Are you happy now :) Here is a horrible screenshot (blurry, like my eyes right now... from the last project). I think I'm off to a good start. Marzout

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/9...screen11mr.jpg

Tesla(DF) 01-03-2006 10:17 AM

A new project already? Wowie, good luck with this guys textures.

Selek 01-03-2006 10:19 AM

YESSSS!

Zappa_0 01-03-2006 11:54 AM

Looks awesome and yes im very very very very very very vert HAPPY =)

boinga1 01-03-2006 05:58 PM

Looks good Marz. Good luck.

NeoMarz1 01-03-2006 09:37 PM

:angel: :angel: :angel: Screen Update :angel: :angel: :angel:

O.k. Here is a panoramic shot of Magna's head. I feel pretty good about the skin. Experimenting with some new texture techniques. Marzout

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/3601/headpan5be.jpg

Buffy 01-03-2006 11:04 PM

yes yes yes Im so happy now !
 
I really wanted this model when you made GG model so ..
can watch demo
http://www.ugo.com/channels/Games/cl...rticleID=13987
http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/ga...commando_games
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8...uard4gk.th.jpg

ACE! 01-04-2006 04:06 AM

Sweet.

Neon 01-04-2006 05:10 AM

Brilliant! It looks quite real already :O

>][V][< 01-04-2006 08:17 AM

The shape of the body in the first shot is off.
The shape of the head needs some work.
The texture looks a bit undetailed, but seems like a good start.

Ruku 01-04-2006 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
The shape of the body in the first shot is off.
The shape of the head needs some work.
The texture looks a bit undetailed, but seems like a good start.

Hmm, agreed.

Stake Black 01-04-2006 09:21 AM

Where are the SSs Marz?

O.o

Edit: Oh i see them now =p

Fortnox 01-04-2006 09:26 AM

Hmm, how are you going to make hands? MG hands aren't at all like normal hands, they have 4 fingers that work like grippers, and dont have any joints except between the beggining of the finger and the hand, if that makes sense. Its physicly impossible for a magna gaurd to hold a gun, (Don't even think about SWBF2) so how are you going to make/weight the hands? The best way is probbably just to make normal hands that look mechanical, I guess

NeoMarz1 01-04-2006 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
The shape of the body in the first shot is off.
The shape of the head needs some work.
The texture looks a bit undetailed, but seems like a good start.

Thats great that you that someone made a comment, but I dont know what your getting at. A critique should have some constructive comments. Like the shape of the body is off because... or the shape of the head needs work because...., or the texture needs detail in these areas...

If your not sure what doesnt look right, how do you expect me to know? I encourage people to add "constructive criticism", thats what I need. Thanks for at least making the attempt, I just need details. Marzout

... RUKU, what are you agreeing too? You should have jumped in and added some details too. Shame on you.

Keep in mind that General body shape has to match the actual skelatal structure. The Magna body proportions do not fit standard human proportions... Like the forarms longer than the biceps, and the shin bone longer than the thigh. I had to fit it to the skelaton, regardless of this.

NeoMarz1 01-04-2006 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortnox
Hmm, how are you going to make hands? MG hands aren't at all like normal hands, they have 4 fingers that work like grippers, and dont have any joints except between the beggining of the finger and the hand, if that makes sense. Its physicly impossible for a magna gaurd to hold a gun, (Don't even think about SWBF2) so how are you going to make/weight the hands? The best way is probbably just to make normal hands that look mechanical, I guess

Yeah, thats the plan. Normal hands that look mechanical. I made pretty accurate hands for Grievous, but It ended up not looking as good as regular hands. Good comments, thanks. Marzout

Cuillere 01-04-2006 10:42 AM

Quote:

The shape of the head needs some work.
The texture looks a bit undetailed, but seems like a good start.
Undetailed ? We are on JKJA not in Quake 4. If i look that the texture is pretty good if Neomarz add a good shader on it.

Good work Neomarz, your "skin skill" is better.

Ruku 01-04-2006 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoMarz1
RUKU, what are you agreeing too? You should have jumped in and added some details too. Shame on you.

Eh, I was feeling pretty lazy. As far as I knew... you were too disinterested to do this model and weren't very happy with it... times change, eh?

Well, if it's constructive criticism you want... then damn it.. constructive criticism you shall have! :P

Let's see... (It's like a sauna here at the moment, hence my lazy/lethargic state)...

Well...
- The biceps needs to be much thinner
- The head needs to be both taller, and generally larger (in proportion to the body)
- The calves should be thinner, yet stocky toward the top
- Remember that the thighs are in two pieces, not one solid one

That's all I can think of, off the top of my head... without a clean, large shot of the mesh (wireframe would help too :P). I know it's not done, so for half of those points, make note of them when you *start* working on the specific areas ;).


@ Cuillere: I'm sure he knows this isn't Quake 4. Remember though: A majority of Quake 4's detail is from it's bump/spec/normal/parralax maps and lighting system, not the colormaps ;).

JKA can still have reasonably detailed textures (1024x) so if someone is picky for detail, it's not entirely dismissable or out of the question...

Tesla(DF) 01-04-2006 11:49 AM

is it just me or are most of the heads Marz makes for models a bit squished :p
You must have short eyes Marz (lol)


Good points Ruku, We didn't give enough constructive criticism on the clone models, we should pay alot of attention to this one that we have all wisened up.

LightNinja 01-04-2006 12:34 PM

The arms and legs should be more thin, yes, but talking about the textures I only see undetailed the ears, other than that is perfect, yes, perfect. And Tesla if you have to say :
"is it just me or are most of the heads Marz makes for models a bit squished
You must have short eyes Marz (lol)" dont put a **** in the ****ing thread, this is getting full of stupid little babys and you know, is ****ing tiring..meh, keep it up marz.

Ruku 01-04-2006 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesla(DF)
is it just me or are most of the heads Marz makes for models a bit squished :p
You must have short eyes Marz (lol)


Good points Ruku, We didn't give enough constructive criticism on the clone models, we should pay alot of attention to this one that we have all wisened up.

Well it's not a matter of "wisening up" .. it was just that the Clone thread had zero constructive criticism in it.... the thread could be summarized as follows:

*Screenshot post*
"OMG THATS AWESUM"
"WOW PERFICT"
"AWESOME... Can I do skinz to? lololol!"
*New screenshot post*
"OMG EVAN BETTAR!"
"are u doin *random* clone?"
"I like pie"
*Another new screen*
"OMG LOLOLOLO AWESOME"
"cool i can skin too can i join"

and so forth....

They either praised it, asked for something they like to be added, or ask to join the team. That was the thread as a whole. Zero constructive criticism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightNinja
The arms and legs should be more thin, yes, but talking about the textures I only see undetailed the ears, other than that is perfect, yes, perfect. And Tesla if you have to say :
"is it just me or are most of the heads Marz makes for models a bit squished
You must have short eyes Marz (lol)" dont put a **** in the ****ing thread, this is getting full of stupid little babys and you know, is ****ing tiring..meh, keep it up marz.

Obviously our opinions of "perfect" differ greatly... namely with yours being over-used. Also, I find it funny that you state the thread is getting full of "babys" (babies..), yet you launch a childish attack on Telsa. If you don't like what he said, you don't have to address it (poorly) .. that's what moderators are for :) ... Keep the discussion on the thread's topic, and I'm sure all the "babys" will sleep fine tonight.

LightNinja 01-04-2006 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruku
Obviously our opinions of "perfect" differ greatly... namely with yours being over-used. Also, I find it funny that you state the thread is getting full of "babys" (babies..), yet you launch a childish attack on Telsa. If you don't like what he said, you don't have to address it (poorly) .. that's what moderators are for :) ... Keep the discussion on the thread's topic, and I'm sure all the "babys" will sleep fine tonight.

Perfect, why? im lazy to talk in english, and i find it perfect, look it up in the dictionary, the definition is what i feel about the texture.

And don't come here as superior...its the typical game and thats what is really over-used. If saying that makes you feel superior or more "wise" (oooh!) im happy that i helped you. As i say, tiring.

Ruku 01-04-2006 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightNinja
Perfect, why? im lazy to talk in english, and i find it perfect, look it up in the dictionary, the definition is what i feel about the texture.

And don't come here as superior...its the typical game and thats what is really over-used. If saying that makes you feel superior or more "wise" (oooh!) im happy that i helped you. As i say, tiring.

It has nothing to do with superiority..... did you miss the point of my entire post?

>_<

>][V][< 01-04-2006 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoMarz1
Thats great that you that someone made a comment, but I dont know what your getting at. A critique should have some constructive comments. Like the shape of the body is off because... or the shape of the head needs work because...., or the texture needs detail in these areas...

If your not sure what doesnt look right, how do you expect me to know? I encourage people to add "constructive criticism", thats what I need. Thanks for at least making the attempt, I just need details. Marzout

... RUKU, what are you agreeing too? You should have jumped in and added some details too. Shame on you.

Keep in mind that General body shape has to match the actual skelatal structure. The Magna body proportions do not fit standard human proportions... Like the forarms longer than the biceps, and the shin bone longer than the thigh. I had to fit it to the skelaton, regardless of this.

Believe me, I know the JA skeleton very well, and I also know its restrictions.
But, I also know ways to even out wrong movements.
According to the capes and robes I've seen from you, you either don't know much about weighting, or do it way too fast.
My point is, that there are definately ways to model the MagnaGuard's legs according to the actual shape and making it deform correctly.

I didn't post "constructive critism" in your eyes, but what's the deal about looking at a high-res image?

Cuillere, I'm aware that we're talking about a texture for JA, don't worry.

>][V][< 01-04-2006 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruku
It has nothing to do with superiority..... did you miss the point of my entire post?

>_<

Most probably.
That's caused through lazyness, don't blame him.
English is one of the hardest languages in the world.
Erm,..no, I'm not being ironic, not at all,...

LightNinja 01-04-2006 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by >
[V][<]English is one of the hardest languages in the world.
Erm,..no, I'm not being ironic, not at all,...

meh.....lets go back on topic. cya

Stake Black 01-04-2006 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
Most probably.
That's caused through lazyness, don't blame him.
English is one of the hardest languages in the world.
Erm,..no, I'm not being ironic, not at all,...

There i would have to disagree with you.

Psyk0Sith 01-04-2006 03:01 PM

If anything, the head is too round, in the promo shots, the head is shaped like an ellipse. The eyes are too far apart on your model too.

The upper leg is split in 2 sections, the "disks" of the pelvis area should be more in a "V" shape, just rotate them slightly. This design wont be easy to re-create perfectly, lack of reference for some area can leave you guessing.

Concerning detailed textures, it has nothing to do with the game engine, the textures for quake 3 are 256x256 and still look detailed. Since the geometry is so low all the character's DETAILS relied on texturing.

Keep it up.

NeoMarz1 01-04-2006 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
Believe me, I know the JA skeleton very well, and I also know its restrictions.
But, I also know ways to even out wrong movements.
According to the capes and robes I've seen from you, you either don't know much about weighting, or do it way too fast.
My point is, that there are definately ways to model the MagnaGuard's legs according to the actual shape and making it deform correctly.

I didn't post "constructive critism" in your eyes, but what's the deal about looking at a high-res image?

Cuillere, I'm aware that we're talking about a texture for JA, don't worry.

You didnt post constructive criticism, ***but It's not a rule you should***. I just need some help here. No your slightly wrong about the skelaton, you cannot make things bend that are not on the joint section. The Magna guard features joint sections that do not fall on the skelaton's joints. There is no way to change this, but there is a way to somewhat maintain the appearance ***(if thats your point then I agree)***. If you have followed any of my threads, I have always stated that this is an area I still need improvement on (mostly cuz I am impatient in the weighing process, Its by far my least favorite thing to do). I know how to pull tricks off, If you have seen the Greivous model. I was able to weight the reversed biped legs, and maintain a good look. If you know so much about weighting then you already know that weighting a cape can be a bit taxing. Just look at the Snow Trooper that is actually part of the real game, it has clipping issues with the kilt. If it were so easy then every single model would have robes, capes, or whatever. The actual character line up for the game features almost no loose clothing. Most designers would probably avoid weighting anything like that. Not saying its impossible, just difficult.

I appreciate the critique that Ruku, and the rest of you have offered. I do listen, and I'm becoming better at dealing with criticism (at least I hope).

I also appreciate that you weighed in with your opinion, I just needed something to follow. I think there was some constructive criticism in the clone project. I know people say "looks cool", "good job", etc... But my clone set did improve from the comments people provided, and I believe my skinning improved by watching Ruku's work. Some of the things I've tried on the Magna Guard's head are inspired by what Ruku did for his set. I dont really handle praise to well either, It feels a bit undeserving at times. It does however inspire me to keep going, so I appreciate a Kudos as well.

I agree we should keep this on track, and stay away from the nagging thing. Now I dont need people just picking everything apart, but I do need sincere thoughts or opinions.

I will try to bring this model as close as I can to what it should look like, but there are not that many reference images that show you things like the back, or close ups of the joint mechanisms. If anyone can find images, please post em here. I have the promo image, and I am sighting the episode III comic as well.

Sincerely, Marz

Zappa_0 01-04-2006 10:14 PM

http://www.rebelscum.com/ROTS0508grievousguard.asp

http://www.rebelscum.com/ROTS0560bodyguard.asp

Hope that helps. =)

>][V][< 01-05-2006 05:11 AM

Quote:

If you have followed any of my threads, I have always stated that this is an area I still need improvement on (mostly cuz I am impatient in the weighing process, Its by far my least favorite thing to do)
Improvement is reached through patience and practise. It may be your least favorite thing to do, but yet it is very important. Bad weighting decreases the general quality of a model by a fair bit.

Quote:

I was able to weight the reversed biped legs, and maintain a good look.
And the cape is completely stiff,..

Quote:

If you know so much about weighting then you already know that weighting a cape can be a bit taxing.
...and although you're right with this point, there definately would have been ways to improve this specific cape.

Quote:

Just look at the Snow Trooper that is actually part of the real game, it has clipping issues with the kilt.
Then do it better...*shrugs*...no, seriously, that's no excuse.

Quote:

The actual character line up for the game features almost no loose clothing.
Yes, because the JA skeleton isn't made for robes/capes/etc.

Quote:

You didnt post constructive criticism
Well, that's a point of view, isn't it?

Quote:

No your slightly wrong about the skelaton, you cannot make things bend that are not on the joint section. The Magna guard features joint sections that do not fall on the skelaton's joints. There is no way to change this, but there is a way to somewhat maintain the appearance
Of course, you have to focus on the joints of the skeleton. But in my opinion, the current body shape is just a bit out of proportion. It doesn't have a great likeness to the actual character.
It's helpful to keep the skeleton in mind. But if you have a good shape, you can still make necessary changes later on.

However,..good start so far, keep it up ;).

Ruku 01-05-2006 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoMarz1
I believe my skinning improved by watching Ruku's work. Some of the things I've tried on the Magna Guard's head are inspired by what Ruku did for his set.

Thanks Marz, I didn't know my work had such an effect on you. However, if you would like to talk more about texturing techniques, I'd be more than happy to swap advice with you :).

However, I only use MSN and to the best of my knowledge.. you don't. If per chance you acquire it... my MSN address is simply my Gmail e-mail.

Tyrant17 01-05-2006 09:28 AM

Yay! Looks good Marz :)

NeoMarz1 01-05-2006 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
Improvement is reached through patience and practise. It may be your least favorite thing to do, but yet it is very important. Bad weighting decreases the general quality of a model by a fair bit.

Whats your point here? I think I understand that.


Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
And the cape is completely stiff,..

Much doesnt get past you. I'll put less starch in it next time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
...and although you're right with this point, there definately would have been ways to improve this specific cape.

I didnt despute that, Whats your point?


Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
Then do it better...*shrugs*...no, seriously, that's no excuse.

And why do you think I'm making up excuses?

Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
Yes, because the JA skeleton isn't made for robes/capes/etc.

Well... now we agree on something. I'm glad you pointed that one out... This is constructive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by >][V][<
Well, that's a point of view, isn't it?

No, plainly stated. In the first post you offered no advice in how I should remedy any of the points you made. Do you know what constructive criticism means?

I am capable of doing anything. I am super Mars. It seems that your trying to tell me that I am incapable of integrity in my work. Your wasting my time, because I am a creative entity with sound judgment (most of the time). I'm not really sure what your point is, because your not offering me anything, except that your an incredible source of wisdom. I havent seen any of your work, so I dont really know what the point is. I follow everything your saying, but the point is moot, I am here to do a project not quarrel about your ego over mine. Here, check out a quick splash of my published comic work, and a link to my site. I think youll find that somewhere down the line I will discover the true magic of weighting, skinning, and whatever else. You need not worry friend, I'll figure it out.

http://www.geocities.com/neomarz1@sbcglobal.net/
http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/7...compile4kf.jpg

NeoMarz1 01-05-2006 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruku
Thanks Marz, I didn't know my work had such an effect on you. However, if you would like to talk more about texturing techniques, I'd be more than happy to swap advice with you :).

However, I only use MSN and to the best of my knowledge.. you don't. If per chance you acquire it... my MSN address is simply my Gmail e-mail.

Hey, I know good work when I see it. Yeah, I would like to do that. I'm sure I could use some of your wisdom. Hope to see more of your work. Marzout

Zappa_0 01-05-2006 11:45 PM

Now theres you some models to make Marz...especially from that A Bomb one =) Hehhehe looks very cool. Gonna see if I can find those now. =D

NeoMarz1 01-06-2006 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zappa_0
Now theres you some models to make Marz...especially from that A Bomb one =) Hehhehe looks very cool. Gonna see if I can find those now. =D

Well, The A-bomb comic has pretty tastless stuff in it. The comic contains a compilation of work from about 3-4 artist besides myself. My work is the most tastefull in the bunch. The rest is... well... pornographic. When the project was offered to me, it hadnt been revealed just how adult like the material would be. This was released when I was in my 20's, so its something I accept as a youthfull mistake. My work has been published alongside other great artist's like Robert DeJesus (the cover of A-bomb, and world renowned american anime artist), Shon Howell (artist and publisher of venus comics), and Adam Warren (American version of Dirty Pair comics, and even worked on teen titan comics for marvel). If you need a list of the titles Ive been published in, I have a link to my old website. They were all published in the 90's so you would have to search for them. You may be able to backorder from www.antarctic-press.com Marzout!

Falkener 01-07-2006 08:20 AM

Sry for going off topic, but Marz, I just realised your birthday falls on the same day as mine!(not same year)

NightFox 01-07-2006 10:04 AM

Look cool alredy , Keep up the good work and GL :)
Ou and are you gonna make a good staff for Magna Guard ?! :)

Selek 01-07-2006 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightFox
Look cool alredy , Keep up the good work and GL :)
Ou and are you gonna make a good staff for Magna Guard ?! :)

http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/13426.html

NeoMarz1 01-07-2006 11:16 AM

:angel: :angel: :angel: ScreenUpdate :angel: :angel: :angel:

Well I got the torso skinned, and re-shaped.

http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/4...profile3ut.jpg


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