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-   -   what makes the Sith: embrace (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=158475)

shaded6 01-14-2006 04:08 AM

what makes the Sith: embrace
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith#Sith_Philosophy

i have my own thoughts, because i am good at discerning things, but, if i didnt wasted my time questioning how legit this site was, then my opinion would be vain:

does anyone Truely know the ways of the Sith? do they not seek the Truth to the ultimate power over oneself? where did we go wrong....

seth

DarkRevan 01-14-2006 04:27 AM

Hmm I'm not really sure. I never gave it much thought. I just want power. Yeah I know that path would lead to ultimate destruction of oneself. But thats my choice.
But the Sith code, didnt Yuthura explaind a little about it. Also Uthar explained a little about the ways of the Sith. Or are you digging in for a deeper explanation?
Well I'm not 100% sure. It gets you thinking though.

BattleDog 01-14-2006 09:42 AM

The site is accurate.

Think on this:

A Jedi lets the Force flow through him even as he uses it he flows through the Force. A Jedi allows the Force to guide him in his actions, when he uses the Force he is calm, without anger or joy, he is in balance. A Jedi is an instrument of the Force, his life is sacrifice and when he dies he may become one with the Unifying Force he serves. The Unifying Force is the balance of all things, it is the power which directs the course of the galaxey, the past, the future.

A weilder of the dark side uses his emotions to try to bend the Force to his will, he does not flow with it he fights it and this fight further fuels his negetive emotions, for him the Force is easy and he thinks because the dark side is easy he is powerful but he commands only a twisted version of the Living Force, he is like a man who stands in a great river and cups a little water in his hands, eventually the river demands he be swept away and the balance be restored. A dark Jedi cannot become one with the Force because he cannot surrender himself to it, he is not balanced and so has no way to the Unifying Force.

shaded6 01-14-2006 10:48 AM

if this Jedi finds the connection between him and the force, by embracing it; letting it flow through him, doesnt he have a greater knowledge on how to influence it through his emotions? most Jedi hold back their emotions when the Sith embrace them, maybe even for the wrong reasons, but, if you were to have been so intuned with the force at one point or another wouldnt you understand how to use it in everyway that your capable?

reply to darkrevan: yeah, i get into the beginning of it all, seeking answers and knowledge for a couple reasons. i mean, power might be the end to destruction when before it would create it, in the individual; question: why?. power doesnt just involve capability. who were the strongest Jedi and Sith Masters, who knew how to influence the force and not "use" it? if your trained from the beginning, you can become consumed by anything you put your passion into. the Jedi dont embrace this passion, i dont believe, but who is to say that at one point or another that that Jedi, who was so passionate towards the force he found and what he wanted to do with it for good, consuming him, does it not offer another possibility of power and the principal of control, when this is a teaching from the beginning; especiall when it is him who needs to learn to control it? and a greater understanding over himself and what he has learned to do? cant this lead down the path of the Sith?

seth

BattleDog 01-14-2006 05:06 PM

You're simply missing the point, you can't influence the Force, this is why Sith are a perversion, they try to influence the Force and they disrupt it, but they can't actually do anything significant, they just pollute it. A Jedi uses the Force but the Force uses him, or her, as well.

shaded6 01-14-2006 05:11 PM

exactly, let the force run through you. gain knowledge from it and use it.

i see the darkness in mostly all the Sith, and this sickens me. such great capability isnt worth wasting all your power to be defeated. because i understand darkness from turning from it, being i was there, i can say that i understand the Jedi and the conflict between them and the Sith. they are addicted to themselves, their desires and their points of veiw and attaining this power. yet still compelling, the force behind the dark side, i have learned to control my urges for power and use what i want to accomplish for balance between both the Jedi and the Sith.

by the way, lol, you and me should duel sometime...i'll show you whats up. lol

seth

BattleDog 01-14-2006 09:17 PM

The dark side is nothing but a perversion of the Force, a manifestation of the darkness within made tangtible through the Force. The Jedi do not fight the Sith, they resist the dark side in all its forms, the Sith are just one form. The Sith fight the Jedi because the Jedi will not let them exercise power over others for their own ends. They simply wish to destroy the Jedi becuase the Jedi are in their way.

There can be no balance between the two becuase one is merely the dark shadow of the other, they are not equel.

DarthLinde 01-14-2006 11:22 PM

Dude, you guys sound so serious lol. It's almost scary

BattleDog 01-15-2006 08:35 AM

Heh, while I can't speak for Shaded here I can confirm that for me this is all just theoretical.

shaded6 01-15-2006 11:49 AM

exactly, a good theological conversation the path of the force. but because we're getting into it, makes it serious, sort of.

seth

BattleDog 01-15-2006 02:17 PM

Yeah, just important not to get carried away.

shaded6 01-15-2006 02:28 PM

lol. definately.

i dont know....then how does the force influence you, if you cant get carried away with it? lol. i had to say that.

seth

lord ignarn 01-15-2006 02:28 PM

Sometimes a good discution is good to exercise our brains :lol:

I believe that the sith just look for power, for them the Force (as their slaves lives) isnt but an instrument. :lsduel:Meaning, if they had been smugglers, they would be the most unreliable smugglers, allways trying to get more credits and kill all their opponents.
:rifle1: :fire2: :blaze6:

shaded6 01-15-2006 03:12 PM

well if they are looking for power, and they become conceited in it, then why wont it destroy them if they dont understand it?

seth

Com Raven 01-15-2006 06:14 PM

This one goes to the Cantina, since it is more of a general Star Wars topic than a TSL-related one.

shaded6 01-15-2006 06:24 PM

well i was basing it off of the Sith in the game, and the nature of the Sith, off of the game. just trying to throw out all these different aspects.

seth

BattleDog 01-15-2006 06:59 PM

Well it does destroy them, doesn't it. If they understood the Force at all they wouldn't be Sith, they'd be Jedi.

Like I said somewhere else all Sith die violent deaths, I don't think any died in their sleep, unless it was poisen.

shaded6 01-15-2006 08:38 PM

what do you think happened to my Master?

lmao.

joking.

but whether they die violent or not, for both Jedi or Sith, doesnt matter, its what lead them to their death that they need to contemplate real quick to why it got that far. Darth Vader realized real quick and killed Darth Sidious, fulfilling the destiny for now, but does this mean that he understood both sides of the force having them both at one time or another running through him?

and if the force is always the force, reguardless of light or dark; how does it change in each individual if not by intrest and perspective on the force and how to "use" it? when you taste the power of the dark side, i can see how it could consume you and utterly destroy you, but if the Sith are based on controlling the force to begin with, why is it that they could never find a way to control themselves and let the force, whether dark or light, be used through them?

the conflict is killing me! choose your path. embrace the dark side of the force and possibly be lost to it forever, or embrace the Unifying force, and be set free from the pain of having to die. and each time i feel this pain its like compelling to find more power within myself to control it, but seeking it to control myself, is consuming my ways of thinking. my eyes are turning red....

seth

REDJOHNNYMIKE 01-16-2006 01:56 AM

@BD, Unless you meant it differently, I don't think "understanding the force" makes you a jedi, the Jedi Order is just a group of individuals united in their particular brand of study, application, and even following of the "force".

Semi-OT... What is beyond the force?...iYho?

JediKnight707 01-16-2006 02:35 AM

@BD/shaded6 You know guys, ummm, incase you haven't noticed, the Force doesn't exist except in a movie. So, don't get me wrong, I love arguements, but what exactly is this gonna prove?

REDJOHNNYMIKE 01-16-2006 02:45 AM

It has to prove something??? :xp:

It's a theoretical discussion about the nature of a fictional universe (and it's inhabitants), based on an author's perception of reality.

Some of us find these conversations facinating;)

JediKnight707 01-16-2006 03:11 AM

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm just loving this. :xp:

Astrotoy7 01-16-2006 05:12 AM

Quote:

what do you think happened to my Master?
In the real world, the only guys who ever get called Master usually wear a leather mask and leather pants which reveal their buttcheeks.... :p

I've been SW crazy since 1980 and have read/watched/heard/played pretty much all the EU there is... but even I draw the line at these type of "serious" arguments....

its a freakin movie :p

If you really want to engage is serious debate, go to the
Senate Chambers or be a philosophy major in college(...which will also mean you will be unemployed, so you'll have heaps of time to contemplate such :p)

mtfbwya

shaded6 01-16-2006 12:35 PM

lmao. i like this girl, astrology7, yes, its a freakin "movie" but i am getting into the nature of it all. i use the principle of the Jedi to find balance within myself and i use the principle of the Sith to control myself. but yeah, like i said before, before i even knew lucas said this i was into what he wanted us to get into:

George Lucas once said in an interview with Bill Moyers: I put the Force into the movie in order to try to awaken a certain kind of spirituality in young people more a belief in God than a belief in any particular religious system. I wanted to make it so that young people would begin to ask questions about the mystery.

Lucas also said, in that interview with Bill Moyers: I would hesitate to call the Force God. It's designed primarily to make young people think about the mystery. Not to say, Here's the answer. Its to say, Think about this for a second. Is there a God? What does God look like? What does God sound like? What does God feel like? How do we relate to God? Just getting young people to think at that level is what I've been trying to do in the films. What eventual manifestation that takes place in terms of how they describe their God, what form their faith takes, is not the point of the movie.

i'm not one of those Christian Wisdom of the Jedi Knights guys, so dont get me wrong, i am a christian, who applies the indepth conversations as a way of discipline and intrest, but i dont let it go to my head. spiritual influence can effect you, both on the light and dark side of "the force." in reality, there are both good and evil influences. i only understand this from going down both those roads in my life. star wars isnt a way of life, its a way of "living." i can see the codes of the Sith and the Jedi as truth in my relationship with God, both, so i mean, this is another reason i can find a balance between both, but because of that intimacy i cant be compelled to the dark side as much as i used to be, but it will havce always been apart of me, because i can always go back to it. this is what i'm battling now, because i am struggling to balance both sides.

no, the force isnt real, you cant move **** with your mind, you cant go out and buy a real sabre and you cant fly battle cruisers, but the ethics make you get into these kind of conversations if you take the time to think about how they can be brought into a real life scenario.

seth

ChAiNz.2da 01-16-2006 02:08 PM

@Jedi_Knight_707, I deleted your post.

Apparently you need to re-read the rules. DO NOT flame or name-call anyone despite your opinion. It's the #1 Rule.

shaded6 01-16-2006 02:49 PM

i guess that was appropriate for the time being, sorry, seriosuly, i like it here, dont want to get banned or start trouble. sorry chainz.2da.

seth

ChAiNz.2da 01-16-2006 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaded6
i guess that was appropriate for the time being, sorry, seriosuly, i like it here, dont want to get banned or start trouble. sorry chainz.2da.

seth

Quite alright.. let's just get this thread back on track ;) Deal?

Be sure to thank Darth333 too ;) hehehe

edit by Darth333: Thread pruned!

shaded6 01-16-2006 02:53 PM

definately. tell me your thoughts....

seth

BattleDog 01-16-2006 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDJOHNNYMIKE
@BD, Unless you meant it differently, I don't think "understanding the force" makes you a jedi, the Jedi Order is just a group of individuals united in their particular brand of study, application, and even following of the "force".

Semi-OT... What is beyond the force?...iYho?

I meant the Jedi understand the Force in so much as you can't control it except on a minute scale and that it is about everything being in balance.

They also know that the true nature of the Force is ultimately beyond understanding. The Sith believe they do understand the Force and can control it en masse, rather than just their little bit of it. Obviously the only ones who really understand the Force are the ones who have become One with it.

So I'm going to say this:

The Sith have no conception of the nature of the Force, given that the dark side is just a manifestation of their twisted nature and not really a "part" of the Force being a Sith totally sucks.

I'd rather be a Jedi, they seem to have a better health plan as well.

shaded6 01-16-2006 05:35 PM

i hear United Health Care is a good one.

but have you never had the compulision for complete power? so intoxicating that it literally consumed you? i believe this is how people are Truely converted to the dark side, because they embrace themselves and their passion for power and the influence of how to use it for their own gain...and many other things. if power is the path to gaining it and someone wants it that bad, then i guess he will go to any lengths to get it, even the dark side and falling into it with a lie or thought about how it is said it is.

how does one be completely turned to the dark side? how does he become evil from being set up by the good? and why is it that he is lost to it, without any thought towards the evil he commits? i agree, that once you are consumed, and once you have crossed the line, that it is basically over, but just beginning. who has crossed the line over to the True Dark Side of the the force and let it Master him?

seth

Darth InSidious 01-16-2006 06:53 PM

The Sith went wrong when they took a left at Koros Major. I told Xendor, but he wouldn't listen...

shaded6 01-16-2006 09:56 PM

Darth InSidious give some more details.....

seth

BattleDog 01-16-2006 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaded6
i hear United Health Care is a good one.

but have you never had the compulision for complete power? so intoxicating that it literally consumed you? i believe this is how people are Truely converted to the dark side, because they embrace themselves and their passion for power and the influence of how to use it for their own gain...and many other things. if power is the path to gaining it and someone wants it that bad, then i guess he will go to any lengths to get it, even the dark side and falling into it with a lie or thought about how it is said it is.

how does one be completely turned to the dark side? how does he become evil from being set up by the good? and why is it that he is lost to it, without any thought towards the evil he commits? i agree, that once you are consumed, and once you have crossed the line, that it is basically over, but just beginning. who has crossed the line over to the True Dark Side of the the force and let it Master him?

seth

Umm no, I've never had any such compulsion, I'll be happy with a wife and two kids. As to your other question, I don't think there is, no I know, there is no "true" dark side. So I gues the answer would either be none as no one went there or all of them as they all went there.

InSidious is making a joke, Xendor was the poor misguided Jedi who became the first Sith.

shaded6 01-16-2006 10:15 PM

see i am just getting into all this, i have my veiws on what i have come across, so i mean yeah, thanks, didnt know what he was talking about. but it gives me another reason to find out. so there is no True Dark Side of the force? you said the other day that there was the force, and not the dark side, i can see what your saying now....

its weird, i watched episode 3 today and i am watching the mind-set of the Sith, atleast Darth Vader and Darth Sidious, and i wonder to myself, how could someone go that far, completely turn from good to evil, instantly...

dont get me wrong, the dark side of the force is compelling, but i dont think a single soul in this room would TRUELY KNOW what it means to embrace it, fully.

seth

REDJOHNNYMIKE 01-17-2006 01:26 AM

@S6, "completely turn from good to evil"
Ever thought that maybe none of them (not just the sith) ever were completely "good/light" and are stuck with both for the duration of life, fighting one while serving the other or vice versa?
A parrellel to human sin nature if you will.

shaded6 01-17-2006 01:38 AM

so because they were introduced to the force and when they came to that realization, "this is The Force," they would contemplate the point to become power hungry or find control? and the imbalance was in them the entire time because they thought they understood what the force was?

the force is something to be used by and let be used; why would the Sith just not come to this conclusion to find the True essence of the force and have their power?

i understand the instant change: its because they make the choice to embrace it, stepp over the line, cross it, let it control you, then you control it, because it is power, la di da di da. but does the dark side of the force have to be evil, when it was always in their nature to "bring it to a dark place?"

seth

REDJOHNNYMIKE 01-17-2006 01:45 AM

I'm not sure what you meant, could you clarify?

shaded6 01-17-2006 02:04 AM

why do the people bring the force to their own beliefs, instead of imbracing it for what it is?

"Only Sith deal in absolutes" -Obi-Wan

what is his absolute? his own gaining of power?

seth

El Sitherino 01-17-2006 04:57 PM

Read Anakin's line.

"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy"

This statement is an absolute, it leaves no room for exception.

MachineCult 01-17-2006 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Sith
Read Anakin's line.

"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy"

This statement is an absolute, it leaves no room for exception.

Hence Obi-wans reply, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."


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