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-   -   Shield Generators Pointless? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=159057)

Dirk Pitt 01-22-2006 12:00 AM

Shield Generators Pointless?
 
:3pdance: What can there use be, they only stop lasers from entering around it, seenms abit pointless. If u can think of how they would be good or what they could be used for please post and tell ne.

Kurgan 01-22-2006 01:08 AM

Well a shield generator in the game works. In real life I guess you'd put the generator under the shields, logically, so you'd have to brute force your way through the shield, use some kind of anti-shield counter-measures (like Ion Cannons) or wait until they run out of power or something like that. The point in the game is that they force you to zero in on one point of the ship (while the guns are targetting you and firing all around) rather than just letting you shoot any corner of the ship and blowing it up. If you limit your vulnerability to one point instead of all over, that's to your advantage, no? ;)

Now as to the shield generators on the PLANET, that's a different story. They resemble the Gungan theater shields in Episode I. That's the one and only time we've ever seen such shields used in Star Wars that I know of. Again, the generators inside make perfect sense here too. That they stop lasers is fine, since it's much easier to fire long range and destroy targets than to run right up to them and start firing. After all, what's the point of having a good ranged weapon if it can't be used at range? Everyone should switch to lightsabers. ;)

MistenTH 01-22-2006 06:26 AM

For space combat, I believe shields need to be tweaked. Several squads of bombers can take out the shield generator fast, leaving the rest of the ship vulnerable.

Perhaps when shields are 50%-100% torpedoes only do 50% damage and the rest to shields. Only when shields are below 50% then do torpedoes and concussion missiles work as they do now. Otherwise, ships will be fighting shieldless most of the time if the opponents are any good.

RC2080 01-22-2006 10:57 AM

Misten, this is the reason why there are bombers in spacebattles. If it was hard for the bombers to take out the shield generators, then everyone would just bring the biggest capital ships they can find to pound the shield down..

On a side note, the point of having the ground based shield generators is to prevent bombardment (perhaps the most devastating attack you can unleash) of a base. It's like Hoth in Empire Strikes Back..

Dirk Pitt 01-22-2006 12:05 PM

I was talking about land sield generators only, i should have ebeen more specific

DarkLord1981 01-22-2006 12:11 PM

I so can't wait to bombard a base with my deadly Tie Bombers. :blast5:

darthfergie 01-22-2006 12:16 PM

actually, the shield generator doesn't stop me from bombarding their base...which is weird. The devs need to tweek that, because in the demo if you put a bombardment on the edge of the shield generator area, the bombers still end up blowing stuff up that's inside the shield. Half of the bombardment goes outside, and the other half, inside. It takes out those large laser turrets on Tat quite easily.

paws1111 01-22-2006 04:45 PM

they arnt compleatly useless they can do a few things

-they stop bombing runs which can do tons of dammage(well....there saposed too)

-Stop artilery (iv only tryd once i might be rong they look like missles so....)

-Bring lazzer units within range of turrnt inside shields becas they need to be inside shilds to shoot at it

- I read or saw somewhere that units in shields slow down units a little.....(conferm? someone?)

Dirk Pitt 01-22-2006 06:53 PM

Quote:

-they stop bombing runs which can do tons of dammage(well....there saposed too)
They dont, i have tried, nor do they stop rebel artillery, not sure abaout empire

swphreak 01-22-2006 07:03 PM

I thought the shield could only stop energy weapons. I used artillery to shoot into the shield. And the shield kinda does prevent bombing runs. You just can't target inside the shield dome, but target the outer ring and some of your bombs will hit inside the shield. It's how I took out most of the turbolasers inside the shield.

Kurgan 01-22-2006 07:52 PM

Well it was a creative design decision to make. In Star Wars these fantasy technologies are poorly understood generally. Though in SW lore we have "ray shields" that are designed only to stop the colorful bolts fired by the various guns in the galaxy (but not unlimited protection obviously) and "partical shields" that are designed to stop physical impacts like missiles and collisions. A ship could conceivably have both, but that doesn't mean it would be invulnerable. Shields have limits. But a game developer has to make choices based on how they want the game to be. Do they want people to favor one style of play? Do they want to make it "fair" or "fun"? What is "fair" or "fun"? Is it challenging? Is it balanced? Does it encourage using all the different units or favor certain ones? etc.

I imagine the gameplay wouldn't change that much from the demo to the full version, but who knows. This isn't a beta test though, so I imagine it would be pretty similar. However multiplayer might be completely different.

swphreak 01-22-2006 08:59 PM

I was speaking more along the lines of the game... the shield is supposed to stop laser fire. Solid objects can pass through.

swaaye 01-22-2006 11:20 PM

LOL! So why not just BOMB the planet. Nice tech. Heh.

By the way, in previous forgotten Star Wars games, like ya know say the 3 Rogue Squadron games, Battle For Naboo, the X-Wing trilogy and XvT, shields blocked projectiles and lasers. I find it rather arrogant of this new game to ignore 10 yrs of history.

lonepadawan 01-23-2006 08:37 AM

"They resemble the Gungan theater shields in Episode I. That's the one and only time we've ever seen such shields used in Star Wars that I know of."

Well in ESB the Rebels get a shield generator up before the Imperials arrive and vader is annoyed because he can't simply bomb/bombard the base, and is forced to order a ground assault, so we can assume this shield generator works in the same way, though much larger and more powerful..

I think I posted about this yonks ago.. I'm really glad they decided to do it this way as it's far superior to the old "give shields to all units within the radius"

I wonder if the Gungan natives will have fambaa shield generators.. they could be put to really good use in this game..

darthfergie 01-23-2006 08:45 AM

actually the explanation I heard pre-prequels as to why the Imperials were able to attack through the rebel shield was that the terrain features prevent shields from covering all the way to the ground, kind of like an umbrella if you will.

But of course that explanation was shot by Lucas' plasma looking shield the Gungan's used in Ep I.

/sry OT biase

PygmyShrew 01-23-2006 08:55 AM

To change direction a bit, I hope its possible to somehow, graphically remove the shield, because it took up over 50% of the Tat map and looks horrible!!!

lonepadawan 01-23-2006 11:15 AM

"actually the explanation I heard pre-prequels as to why the Imperials were able to attack through the rebel shield was that the terrain features prevent shields from covering all the way to the ground, kind of like an umbrella if you will.

But of course that explanation was shot by Lucas' plasma looking shield the Gungan's used in Ep I.

/sry OT biase"

Well if we assume they work in the same way, the Imperials could just land outside the shield and walk in.

darthfergie 01-23-2006 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonepadawan
"actually the explanation I heard pre-prequels as to why the Imperials were able to attack through the rebel shield was that the terrain features prevent shields from covering all the way to the ground, kind of like an umbrella if you will.

But of course that explanation was shot by Lucas' plasma looking shield the Gungan's used in Ep I.

/sry OT biase"

Well if we assume they work in the same way, the Imperials could just land outside the shield and walk in.

Which is exactly what they did in ESB :) They landed a distance away from the shield and walked under it instead of calling in an orbital bombardment to flatten it.

The only way they couldn't land is if the shields were layered like Coruscant's are in EU so that they cover the entire planet. That's my understanding of OT shields. Especially considering that even though the deathstar was covered by a planetary shield, the rebels pulled away from it because if they crashed into the shield they'd be toasted.

Yet I understand why EAW is going with the Gungan plasma shield type thing, it has the Lucas movie stamp.

Kurgan 01-23-2006 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthfergie
actually, the shield generator doesn't stop me from bombarding their base...which is weird. The devs need to tweek that, because in the demo if you put a bombardment on the edge of the shield generator area, the bombers still end up blowing stuff up that's inside the shield. Half of the bombardment goes outside, and the other half, inside. It takes out those large laser turrets on Tat quite easily.


If the bombardment goes THROUGH the shields, then we can only surmise that these are pure ray shields. If that's the case, then logically ground units with missiles (physical projectiles rather than lasers) should be able to penetrate the shield just as well as the bombers. Otherwise you'd think the shield itself would be damaged, and maybe the generator itself (from the heavy impacts) rather than just going through it. Then again SW technology is mysterious and fantastic, but I'm just trying to go with what we've logically seen before now.

saberhagen 01-23-2006 02:09 PM

The first death star had some kind of energy shield that the rebels could fly through didn't it?

Kurgan 01-23-2006 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonepadawan
"They resemble the Gungan theater shields in Episode I. That's the one and only time we've ever seen such shields used in Star Wars that I know of."

Well in ESB the Rebels get a shield generator up before the Imperials arrive and vader is annoyed because he can't simply bomb/bombard the base, and is forced to order a ground assault, so we can assume this shield generator works in the same way, though much larger and more powerful..

I think I posted about this yonks ago.. I'm really glad they decided to do it this way as it's far superior to the old "give shields to all units within the radius"

I wonder if the Gungan natives will have fambaa shield generators.. they could be put to really good use in this game..

We never SEE theater shields in the movies besides Episode I, I said. ;)

The ESB shield protects a portion of the planet, but it's invisible. The planetary shield that surrounds the Death Star II (and the novel says it covers the entire forest moon of Endor as well) is also invisible, but it's a planetary shield, not a theater shield. For all we know the one in ESB looked exactly like the Gungan one (only much much larger) we just never saw it because it was so far away, and the walkers just walked through it (and something about theater shields being dangerous to hovercraft and biological beings, so they had to be inside their armored walkers to pass through safely).

I'm sure they went with the Gungan model because it's a big visual effect, and "looks pretty and sci fi-ish" for the game. It's easier to tell there's a shield up if you see a big blue swirly thing there.

Darth_Torpid-PG 01-23-2006 02:14 PM

Base Shield Generators are upgradable. The original shield is only a ray shield. As a defender, you can purchase the upgrade, which adds particle shielding. Upgrades are persistant, so if you upgrade a shield in a tactical battle, it will stay upgraded until the shield generator is destroyed.

Kurgan 01-23-2006 02:18 PM

Yes, again the first Death Star had a planetary shield (for lack of a better term) but it was not the same as the one used on the Death Star II, because it was described as a "magnetic field" that the ships could pass through. The DS2 one they had to avoid or they would be destroyed (in the original screenplay ships actually touched the edge of the shield and were damaged or destroyed by it). In ANH they slow down ("accelerate to attack speed" though they actually are moving much faster towards the DS than through it) and pass through safely. Not a theater shield, and it's invisible.

I noticed also in the game that they put big blue auras around ships that "Boost shields." So perhaps you could take it as a non-literal visual effect for gameplay sake. Ie: like those red glows for boosted combat effectivness or the red crosses for healing. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what we'd see if it were all real life. But the energy shield thing is probably the only thing there that has a precedent as a visual effect in the movies. Other than the Gungan theater shields, the Destroyer Droid personal shields, the red force fields at the Naboo factory, and the "ray shields" on Grievous's ship, all Star Wars shields we've encountered have been invisible (though a few times we see shield sections on ships briefly flash white when hit in the classic trilogy).

Athanasios 01-23-2006 02:26 PM

Omg...upgrade to particle shielding <---------- you see this everybody? :)

About the Tatoine "feature", which is mentioned by darthfergie and according to which you may bombard a bit out of the shield gen, i think it's due to map (first of all) and secondly due to the smart AI we have in the demo; because, if a player was the defender (or even the AI in the final game), then he would just strive to hold those building pads which lay up and right to the shield gen (out of it) and build some AA turrets; then, bombers will go done as flies way earlier before they bombard the selected "buggy" area.

Jan Gaarni 01-23-2006 03:41 PM

What the hell's this theater shield?!? :D

Athanasios 01-23-2006 03:50 PM

I guess they mean the shield dome?

Wilhuf 01-23-2006 04:25 PM

I like the tactical shield generators. It made for a challenging assault on the Imperial positions on Tatooine in the demo. I choose to punch tanks through the shield, clear a route, and destroy the generator. Then the artillery came in. I suppose I should have tried to bombard it, since I assumed my arty attacks wouldnt breach the shields. Hum.

Oh and Please, please devteam, no mobile Gungan-style dino-mounted shield generators though. The lessa the ep1 the betta.

swphreak 01-23-2006 04:28 PM

Wow, when did this become a nerd discussion? The game doesn't have to be canon. Base shields start with stopping energy weapons, and apparently we can upgrade them to stop solid objects as well.

Besides, if they tried to make shields visible in the OT, it'd probably look as bad as David Lynch's Dune movie. It nearly killed me to watch Picard and Muad'Dib fight with those horrible shield thingies.

vader815 01-23-2006 04:37 PM

the shields should block all laser fire, torpedos, and any other fast moving objects. That was how they were suppose to be designed

clone_troopa 01-23-2006 10:22 PM

uh this is confirmed by the Dev team chat today


-----------------------
Empire at War Dev Team
Total Posts: 43
Member Since: 01/06 Date Posted: Jan 23, 2006 05:00 PM



"One of Ptro employees said something about upgrading shield generators to particle shields. What is the difference?"

The regular shield just stops energy weapons. The upgrade stops all other projectiles as well.

------------------------

so low tech shields are good but not so good and the upgraded shields is uber! I LOVE SHIELDS!

Teradyn 01-27-2006 05:35 PM

If the energy shield is not supposed to block artillary and bombers until it is upgraded to the "shutter shield", why can't we target inside it?

wedge2211 01-27-2006 06:07 PM

Perhaps the energy field scrambles Y-Wing targeting computers.

Ra2er 01-27-2006 06:19 PM

It does block artillery and bombers before the upgrade, that's why you can't target inside the shield until it's taken down.

The shutter shield is not the upgrade, it is a seperate shield to stop bombing runs and re-enforcements around the base.

shadowsfm 01-27-2006 09:51 PM

the first deathstar had a shield in its exost shaft, so luke couldnt just shoot into it, so he had to use torps

OOM-911 01-30-2006 10:29 AM

we cant be shur of anything untill the game comes out

for example in the demo on tattonie the empiers sheild and power gen were inside the shield dome

in the full game this will be fixed and the power gen will be outside

the devs said them selves that the levels in the demo werent the real ones

Jan Gaarni 01-30-2006 11:24 AM

Actually, Oom-911, in some maps the power generator will be inside the shields, and some maps it will be outside the shields.
The Shield generator/projector itself will always be inside at the center.

Delphi-PG 01-31-2006 12:39 AM

Considering Darth Torpid and DANDANBinks (another designer) held off my imperial assault today in a multplayer game because of their shield gen, I would say they are very useful. =P

Orao 01-31-2006 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphi-PG
Considering Darth Torpid and DANDANBinks (another designer) held off my imperial assault today in a multplayer game because of their shield gen, I would say they are very useful. =P


Just out of curiosity....

Was the generator inside the shieled and did they have the the big turret under shieled ?

If the awnser is yes then I understand why.

shadowsfm 01-31-2006 07:52 AM

i wouldnt be too worried if you end up with a map where the generater isnt under the shield. i bet them aa turrets will take them bombers down quick. and if they only have one squadron, you can just laugh in you oponints face

Teradyn 01-31-2006 03:30 PM

Since we are on the subject, if you lose a bomber group to aa fire, does that disable your bombing button?

This wouldn't make sense with 15 ISDs in orbit. (of course those 15 ISDs not being able to bombard the planet with Turbolasers doesn't make sense either)


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