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MeleeMaster 07-27-2006 07:26 PM

Mapping skins
I'm a noob when it comes to this stuff and I can't really skin, but if I use a pre-made skin for a certain model and then try and use it on a different model, it comes up wrong and messed up. I know its probably because the skin is not mapped for that model. I already looked at this thread and I have Gmax and all. But I have a few basic questions, is doing a UVW Unwrap another term for mapping a skin to a model? And do you use a different process to remap a pre-mapped model? I heard that when it comes to Q3 type games your suppose to use 3DsMax and you can only use GMax for weapon modeling. Because the things is the premade models are in .glm format. Is there a way to convert them to .md3?

Sorry for the huge un-organized paragraph. I was just typing things as they popped into my head.

Psyk0Sith 07-28-2006 11:59 AM

Yes unwrapping is another term for UV mapping or skin mapping. Unfortunately you cannot re-do the UV's without 3D studio max because you will have to redo the rigging process, or else your model will be useless...importing the .glm destroys the hierarchy and skin weights (aka the rig).

MeleeMaster 07-28-2006 09:29 PM

Thx, right now I'm using Milkshape and making small changes, its really nice because I'm not making anything from scratch (I don't know how to) but I'm just moving things around. But I have a problem, whenever I export the model back to the .glm format to overwrite the old one it shows up in game floating in midair as it was when I looked at the model in Milkshape. I would be using Gmax but I'm having trouble finding the plugins for the .glm and .md3 format.

Psyk0Sith 07-29-2006 12:06 AM

Like i said, you have to RIG the mesh before its a valid (and moving) .glm player model ;). Last i heard milkshape didnt have the proper tools to rig a player model for JA. Dont think Gmax has support either, only for weapons and static meshes.

MeleeMaster 07-29-2006 06:50 AM

Well, other people have used Milkshape to modify their playermodels before (back then they couldnt export to .glm) amd then they exported it in .md3 format and used MD3VIEW to save it as a .glm. I'm gonna try it and see if there's any difference.

EDIT:Well I tryed it but when I tryed to open the .md3 up in MD3View I got errors. I'm going to try the same process with Gmax and see if it works. But first can you tell me where I can get the plugins for .glm and .md3 for Gmax? Maybe MD3View validizes any model you export to .glm.

Psyk0Sith 07-29-2006 01:10 PM

Sorry i dunno about gmax plugins :(.

If your method works, id be interested to know about it, but for now, i'm gonna give you reasons why this wont work.

1.This only works for weapons and static meshes. When you import your .glm in milkshape (or any other 3d package) the bone weights get destroyed...period!, you cant have a player model without that information.

2.What some people used to do, is model in milkshape and then export it to .md3 so people with 3D Max could do the rigging for cant escape rigging! It's a fact for all game engines.

3.The compiling (note the word compiling here) is done with a .XSI file exported from 3D max or softimage XSI, that XSI file has got a player model mesh segmented in 9 main body parts.

Those body parts and tags are linked together in subgroups and attached to the main tag/root objects. Most importantly the meshes are WEIGHTED to the skeleton, meaning, whatever the bone movement, the mesh will follow.

Now when you have done all that crap, you export it to .XSI and use an external compiler called carcass.exe, this compiler will produce a valid .glm based on the hierarchy (and bone structure) of your character. The animation system is based on an external file and not baked in the character's mesh at export time so its mandatory to have same exact skeleton and hierarchy structure.

.XSI > Carcass > .GLM > .GLM+.GLA = Ja character.

MeleeMaster 07-29-2006 02:52 PM

Thx for your help. I could do the 30 Day trial of 3D MAX 8 but they ask for your phone number and my parents would freak if I filled it in. There might be one way to get the weighting and rigging to work. You know how whenever you open a .glm in NotePad you get a bunch of weird characters of comp code? Well some of those characters have to be defining the whole weighting/rigging/bone thing. If you could figure out which characters did that you could copy and paste them into your exported .glm. It would be VERY,VERY,VERY hard but it's possible.

Psyk0Sith 07-30-2006 02:12 AM

That's an even more desperate method hehe. I tried this when JA was released, i used an hexadecimal editor to find an easy way to fix the saber "bug" on JO success.

It's even more complicated (and impossible if you ask me) to do this for whole rig process. Each file has its own structure because the placement of vertex and weight info is say no chance in hell this would work ;).

MeleeMaster 07-30-2006 07:18 AM

Maybe Milkshape 2.0 will have rigging tools. If you google MilkShape and go to the official site they have forums where you can make suggestions and give them your wish lists. They probably wouldn't know what I was talking about if I said "make Ghoul 2 models riggable". Since I'm a noob, could you tell me what the best way to say it would be?

Psyk0Sith 07-30-2006 07:20 PM

MS should be able to rig characters since you can create characters for other games and they work fine, im not sure what the exact problem is with JA.

-What you need is something similar to the skin modifier in 3d max (for weighting characters) and compatible .XSI exporter (MS already has it i think).

-A link tool, to create objects hierarchy.

-To modify raven's models, you would of course need a .glm importer...dunno if there's one for current milkshape version.

MeleeMaster 07-31-2006 07:16 AM

Well I'm using MilkShape 1.7.9 and it has both a .glm importer and exporter.

Psyk0Sith 07-31-2006 06:40 PM

Ok, learn how to rig a model in there...just to see how it works etc.

Then you would need the JA skeleton, merge the player mesh with it and rig the whole thing. If there's no merge feature then you are doomed!

MeleeMaster 07-31-2006 09:21 PM

Well theres a merge button that can use .ms3ds and merge them. There's also a bunch of snap together buttons and weld together buttons.

MeleeMaster 08-08-2006 10:40 AM

Hey, I'm downloading the XSI Mod tools right now and I'm wondering, will I be able to rig my models and modify them using it? I know all have to deal with the whole .glm to .xsi and vice versa thing but will I be able to rig models in there or import them without bone weights getting destroyed?

EDIT:I have good news, and bad news, I read on that you can rig models in it, but the bad news is I checked the system requirements and it requires Win XP Pro or 2000 while I have Win XP Media Center Edition.

On top of that, whenever I try to run the Mod Tool the advertisement copyright window shows up (you know how some window usually shows up then disapears before you start using the application) and it stays there and seems to sort of freeze without actually starting the application.

I do have a downstairs comp with Win 2000 but I would have to download all the Mod tools again and transfer data between the comps via data disks.

Now I just learned that in order to export models from the tool you have to get an activation key which requires giving your address and other stuff like that.

No matter where I go it's a dead-end.

EDIT No.2:Gmax might be able to rig models because it seems to have a lot of the tools 3D Max does. In your tutorial for rigging I looked at the screenshots and I looked in Gmax and I found some of the same tools and and screens.

Psyk0Sith 08-08-2006 11:56 AM

Ok but does Gmax support the .XSI export plugin? I doubt it.

MeleeMaster 08-08-2006 01:38 PM

It might. I'd have to look around for it though. I found the .md3 import and export stuff though. Couldn't I just take one of Raven's pre-made .glm's then import it in MS then export it as .md3 then open it in Gmax and do all the modifications and bone weighting then export it as .md3 then open it up in MD3View and save it as a .glm? Or would MD3View destroy the bone weight information?

I guess I'll probably have to ask someone to do the weighting for me (I'm messing around with the models for my own personal use so what would be the point).

Psyk0Sith 08-08-2006 05:33 PM

No, exporting to .md3 will destroy the rig...remember the compiler is what gets the .glm done...without that, your chances are non existent.

MD3 View is not a modeling tool and cannot produce a valid player model either.

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