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-   -   1 hit KO's (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=173821)

crail227 12-23-2006 10:02 PM

1 hit KO's
 
Alright, after playing ojp for quite sometime, ive felt a lack of pressure and tension in fights. I dont feel like theres enough fear instilled in each opponent and i think there needs to be something more to be added.

A little bold, but i would like my idea discussed and see how it might affect gameplay

allow me to elaborate:

To add more tension, i propose a type of "one hit KO" or super move, if u will, essentially this move would take out either all or a large amount of BP against the opponent (of course the consequence of the attack is discussable)

However, this move will involve a extremely slow animation and it will require a wind up to execute. In addition, this move, if parried, would either disarm or put the victim into a heavy slow bounce (again, this notion is discussable)

This is just an idea and hopefully add more tension to the game, and create more fear and depth in the game.

please discuss

JRHockney* 12-23-2006 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crail227
Alright, after playing ojp for quite sometime, ive felt a lack of pressure and tension in fights. I dont feel like theres enough fear instilled in each opponent and i think there needs to be something more to be added.

A little bold, but i would like my idea discussed and see how it might affect gameplay

allow me to elaborate:

To add more tension, i propose a type of "one hit KO" or super move, if u will, essentially this move would take out either all or a large amount of BP against the opponent (of course the consequence of the attack is discussable)

However, this move will involve a extremely slow animation and it will require a wind up to execute. In addition, this move, if parried, would either disarm or put the victim into a heavy slow bounce (again, this notion is discussable)

This is just an idea and hopefully add more tension to the game, and create more fear and depth in the game.

please discuss


Well, I personally prefer to play against bots than no more than 75% DP. Meaning I set maxium point allowance to 60 or 65. Fights are alot more dynamic that way and a simple dodge can spell death if not careful. But yeah I'm not totally opposed to some kind of one hit kill, but its very easy to overpower such a move.

crail227 12-23-2006 10:37 PM

thats the thing, to make the move happen have so many negative consequences to prevent it being overpowered.

Thats why its extremely slow, and if parried it would disarm or make the attacker vulnerable to combos, among others. i was also thinking that the move can be negated by an attack from the opponent.

the point is to have the attack so rarely that spamming it or something like that would have negative consequences for the one executing the attack

Maxstate 12-24-2006 11:04 AM

Yeah I would like something like this too, but you know how this could be solved as well?
Respawn timers.

ensiform 12-24-2006 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxstate
Yeah I would like something like this too, but you know how this could be solved as well?
Respawn timers.

Yuck.

JRHockney* 12-24-2006 12:22 PM

Quote:

Thats why its extremely slow, and if parried it would disarm or make the attacker vulnerable to combos, among others. i was also thinking that the move can be negated by an attack from the opponent.
Well, a move like this would need penalties more severe than that to avoid spammage. Probably the best option would be to have the effects of getting parried based on your opponents DP meter when you tried it. If your opponent was almost full of DP an you got parried or hit while in the swing, the effects should be almost lethal on you. This would have lessoning effects on you the lower your opponents DP is. However, I have a feeling that razors going to think this is not a needed feature at all. This would be a huge change to the saber system and alot of people don't want to see big changes to it.

TheShaman 12-24-2006 01:54 PM

I wouldn't mind if it was added, but I don't think it's really needed, to make fights more intense, removing the partial-dodge damage reduction would be a good idea... gunners or saberists getting hit by, 1, 2, sometimes 3 slashes and still alive really isn't appropriate for such a mod.

Maxstate 12-24-2006 02:09 PM

Respawn timers! </kid voice>

I swear it works! :p

TheShaman 12-24-2006 02:11 PM

What do you mean?

JackBaldy 12-24-2006 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Well, I personally prefer to play against bots than no more than 75% DP. Meaning I set maxium point allowance to 60 or 65. Fights are alot more dynamic that way and a simple dodge can spell death if not careful. But yeah I'm not totally opposed to some kind of one hit kill, but its very easy to overpower such a move.

Heh? Bots are too easy if you set the max to that in my opinion. For them to be a challenge in a one on one bout they would have to be around 100 something points greater than I. Most of the time I stay at 64 DP while the bots continue to level up to 100+ points, I did this one in Meat Grinder in the imperial control room map, kept restarting the map by votes, I think by the end of that I had around 234 points (The bot trailing behind with 160+ points while I was still at 64 DP :P ) and such, but the server crashed :p

Now as for the 'One hit KO move,' I do not know if it is such a good idea. It would ruin some of the 2 on 1's simply because it would be easy for the first or second opponent to just spam it and get you from behind. Maybe 'haymaker' like hits would be better, strikes that are slower but take away slightly more DP. But we kind of already have that in the form of attack fakes only attack fakes execute saber locks.

crail227 12-24-2006 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBaldy

Now as for the 'One hit KO move,' I do not know if it is such a good idea. It would ruin some of the 2 on 1's simply because it would be easy for the first or second opponent to just spam it and get you from behind. Maybe 'haymaker' like hits would be better, strikes that are slower but take away slightly more DP. But we kind of already have that in the form of attack fakes only attack fakes execute saber locks.

Thats a good point in the 2 v 1 situation. If some havent already noticed, i got this idead from playing fight night round 3, where there are flash ko punches, which essentially is a "comeback" or 1 hit ko type of move. Moving on, i think this kind of "haymaker" sort of move is a good idea, though i would like to see it as its own attack, one where it doesnt act as the attack fake, but just simply hit the opponent, with the usual balances implemented. (parry=harsh consequences)

JackBaldy 12-24-2006 04:24 PM

Hehe, I kind of figured, thus my 'haymaker' statement. Although it is kind of different in Fight Night than in Jedi Academy, seeing as how after you get knocked out you have a chance to get back up, in Jedi Academy if you get KO'd you die :p I guess a heavier attack that does more damage than an attack fake but is slower/does not change direction would not be a bad idea, but of course would have to be play tested for balance and such.

razorace 12-25-2006 03:22 AM

We discussed "haymaker" attacks in the past but I think we decided that it simply wouldn't add much to the game other than making the controls more complicated.

Maxstate 12-25-2006 06:15 AM

Well I think there's another solution on how we could have quick KO's; we could make disarming someone a useful and intuitive skill that isn't as random to do as it is now.
That way you can be rendered much more vulnerable because you have no saber which will most likely not only enhance the fun factor in the game (because you have another passive aggressive option to play with) but also provide us with the beforementioned possibility of 'haymakers' or 1-hit KO attacks.

JackBaldy 12-25-2006 08:03 AM

Something similar to Mblocking to disarm in MB2?

razorace 12-25-2006 07:07 PM

mmm, I don't see the point of a quick KO in the first place. Right now, skilled players can already do quick KOs on newbies.

Beyond that, we can't really do much without making a really unbalanced one shot kill move, which I think goes against the way the saber system is supposed to work.

Sushi_CW 12-25-2006 07:33 PM

I think the Attack Fake fills the "haymaker" role just fine. Difficult to connect reliably, does extra damage, AND gives you a saberlock.

JackBaldy 12-25-2006 09:37 PM

You are right Razor, O.J.P. should focus more on fixing the current things we have now than explore new ideas that might not be good. And you are right about the skilled players doing quick KO's on the newer players, I have forced many to read the manual! :p Although if we were to look into this, we could just make it that by default if no different direction is pressed during an attack fake it does not change 180 degrees like it does now and instead does the same attack but in attack fake form for extra damage and saber lock.

razorace 12-25-2006 09:53 PM

mmm, I don't know about that. Part of the disadvantage of the attack fake is that it has a longer windup period. Doing that would make it just the same as a normal swing's windup, right?

JackBaldy 12-25-2006 10:04 PM

Well technically the attack fake just begins winding up another attack in order to fake out the opponent but can be interrupted if attacked. What I was suggesting was a double wind up, because that is the only way it can work if it does the same slash and keep the same format of attack fakes? Basically instead of switching to fake it switches to the same strike you were doing which would require the same amount of wind up like if any other attack was switching to it by form of attack fake.

*edit* I am not exactly sure if this is possible though without altering the code much. What do you think Razor?

razorace 12-26-2006 02:30 AM

Maybe I don't understand but I don't see how a double windup would look right. I'd think it would look more like an animation glitch.

JackBaldy 12-26-2006 12:46 PM

Something like the attack being interrupted and being windup again instead of another strike to fake out an opponent, although this really is not top priority. I just said if you are going to look into it, I would suggest that.

Sushi_CW 12-26-2006 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBaldy
Something like the attack being interrupted and being windup again instead of another strike to fake out an opponent, although this really is not top priority. I just said if you are going to look into it, I would suggest that.

Isn't that what an attack fake is though? I'm not understanding the difference.

JackBaldy 12-26-2006 02:26 PM

Instead of it changing the strike it simply does the same strike but goes through the same things an attack fake has to go through.

before: Hold attack and then before it winds up hold/press the +altattack key to do an attack fake, by default (No different direction placed) the attack fake strike goes 180 degrees from the original attack.

after: Hold attack and then before it winds up hold/press the +altattack key to do an attack fake, by default (No different direction placed) the attack fake interrupts the original attack and winds it up (with trails properly placed for visual effect) again and if it lands it has the same advantages of an attack fake attack and can also be interrupted.

I don't think there is much else I can say. :p

razorace 12-26-2006 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBaldy
Something like the attack being interrupted and being windup again instead of another strike to fake out an opponent, although this really is not top priority. I just said if you are going to look into it, I would suggest that.

It would be difficult to do. I know that just from memory. :)

Anyway, I like the current behavior. I use it all the time.

JackBaldy 12-27-2006 01:29 AM

Well it was just a suggestion if you were to go along with this 'haymaker' idea, other than that, I am not sure how you could code a 'haymaker' type attack.

Maxstate 12-27-2006 06:21 AM

Your power attack idea is a double windup, right?
Won't work unless you take a big running start away from your opponent.

JackBaldy 12-27-2006 09:17 AM

It has been marked off as too difficult, but in any case how would it be any different than doing an attack fake? It wouldn't, the thing is it won' change direction as an attack fake would. But there is no point in discussing it now since it has been marked off as too difficult and it generally would not be worth the time anyway.

razorace 12-27-2006 03:18 PM

Technical reasons. Hard to explain without covering the way the entire saber animation system is controlled. :)

JackBaldy 12-27-2006 04:26 PM

If it sounded whether or not I was questioning if it was actually difficult, I apologize. But to clarify, I was not :P


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