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Salzella 01-16-2007 04:31 PM

Bastila's role...
 
What do you think it should be? We know she survives, when the exile goes to look for Revan, so what role should she play in KOTOR III?

I would like to see her as a party character once again, alongside (probably) Revan, but maybe not everyone actually likes Bastila, hence this thread ;)

KotO[REvan] 01-16-2007 06:19 PM

I think Bastilla (along with Revan and Carth for that matter) should all be side-characters, not being about to join your party. I don't really want too many important people from the old games in your party again.

For instance, they should have HK-47, T3-M4, and Mandalore be the only characters that stick with the main character from the old games (since they have been in both previous KotORs). Everyone else should be new, including Bastilla.

PoiuyWired 01-16-2007 07:16 PM

She would be too old.

Titanius Anglesmith 01-16-2007 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
She would be too old.

Not necessarily. If the game takes place only a few years after TSL she wouldn't be too old. Remember, in KotOR I, she was still a young padawan.

I would like to see Bastila in KotOR III, but not as a party member. I agree with KotO[REvan] that possibly T3-M4, HK-47, and Mandalore should be party members, but everyone else should be new.

SilentScope001 01-16-2007 08:17 PM

Quote:

What do you think it should be? We know she survives, when the exile goes to look for Revan, so what role should she play in KOTOR III?
Techincally, she may not have surivied for a Female LS Revan. It is strange that she did not appear for Female LS, but appear she did not.

The reason is the fact that it is harder to save Bastilla if you are Female, because Bastilla is not a leb/love interest like Jhunai is. Therefore, you have to play a very good mini-game to save Bastilla...which is hard. I guess that the makers of K2 was afraid that many players were unable to win this minigame and decide to leave Bastilla's fate in the lurch for someone who set Revan to Female LS...since she could possibly die.

Because of this, I suspect that Bastilla will not reapper in K3, at least not for Revan Female LS issue. If she does appear, then it will only be a cameo apperance, like that small talk you get if you set Revan to LS and meet up with Carth (and Bastilla if you are Male LS).

Hm, I wonder if we get to see Bastilla's corpse in the Unknown Regions for playeres who set DS Revan. After all, Bastilla did leave known Space to find Revan if you set Revan to DS, angry that the Sith are killing each other, and afraid for Revan and this threat to his power, what we know as the True Sith.

Grey Master 01-16-2007 09:11 PM

I agree with both Weasel and KotO[REvan] that the only old characters should be the droids and Canderous, but I will like to see Carth and Bastila to appear at some part of the game, along with some of the first game characters.....

Prime 01-16-2007 09:50 PM

I don't think she should appear in person. Her story is told.

Totenkopf 01-16-2007 11:03 PM

A lot would depend upon the timeframe of the new game. If it takes place not too long after TSL, then she could show up in a few different ways. If you've got a LS Revan, she could be a member of the new Jedi council. If DS, maybe in another holocron providing some clue about Revan's current whereabouts, or maybe in a cameo providing critical info. Perhpas you even encounter her if you find Revan (and Exile?). Whatever they decide to do, I agree that she should remain a secondary character at best. Even more so if the next story takes place even later.

The Architect 01-17-2007 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
Not necessarily. If the game takes place only a few years after TSL she wouldn't be too old. Remember, in KotOR I, she was still a young padawan.

Actually, she was a Jedi Knight in KotOR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melly
Bastila: "I wondered if the Council wanted to see how I would help and guide you on our quest. I wondered if they were testing me to see if I was ready to become a Jedi Master myself. And then I realized how foolish such thoughts were. As the Council explained, sending a Master in our group would only have drawn unwanted attention from the Sith. The fate of the galaxy is at stake, the Council would not risk it merely to test me. They calculated the risks and in the end chose the only option available."

Although I haven’t played KotOR for almost half a year now, I do remember her saying this.

Now, what do I think Bastila’s role should be in KotOR III? Well, it depends on what the story is about and what timeline the story takes place in. Now, I have said several times how strongly I am against the idea of the devs using the canon Revan and the canon Exile in KotOR III, however, I don’t mind if they use canon on any other characters apart from Revan and the Exile in KotOR III.

What I mean by that is, in TSL, despite the fact that you could kill Bastila in KotOR as LSM Revan, she shows up anyway. I don’t mind if they do stuff like that, as the fate of some important characters in KotOR and TSL, who could potentially have significant roles in KotOR III, weren’t decided by the characters alignment. For example, you could be any alignment you want and still have the option to kill Atris in TSL as the Exile. It makes things easier for the devs this way, because it saves time and resources.

Now, presuming KotOR III is a follow up of TSL, they should IMO make it that Bastila is also alive if Revan is set as a LSF, so this way, she’s alive no matter what, and can have a big role in KotOR III.

My idea is that no matter what, Bastila went looking for Revan in the unknown regions. During her search for Revan, she chances across you (the PC of KotOR III), who is just some random nobody force sensitive from a planet in the deep outer regions of space.

Someone who never has been, and isn’t affiliated with any major faction from the start, and has no prior association with the previous games. You’re just going about your normal, everyday type of business, whatever that may be, on your home planet, until, the ‘True Sith’ attack your planet.

At the time, Bastila is on your home planet, with HK-47 and T3-M4 (who she finds during her search on Vjun), and by chance, you come across her, or more or less, she can feel your presence through the force and your great potential, so she comes to you.

Call it a bizarre coincidence or whatever, but she’d help you, and perhaps two or three party members you gather along on your home planet, escape the ‘True Sith’ attack and flee to safety.

She’d then train you, her way. You see, I’d make it that she is no longer a Jedi or a Sith. Instead, she has developed a Kyle Katarn type philosophy, being that no force power is inheritably dark or light, but how and for what one uses a force power truly defines whether you’re good or evil.

As you can see, if it’s assumed that Bastila lives no matter what, in a KotOR III story that will presumably take place anywhere between two months to ten years after TSL, she could be your master. Good idea or not?

trojan1 01-17-2007 12:45 AM

I would like to see her in the game but not as a party member. Maybe just as a person who you meet in your travels or I like the idea stated by silentscope001 about seeing her corpse in uncharted space.

Kristy Kistic 01-17-2007 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prime
I don't think she should appear in person. Her story is told.

Well put. Besides, it can be dangerous to mess with something that has already become classic. More often than not it takes away from rather than adds to.

Sir Palamides 01-17-2007 09:25 AM

agree. But if there is a new female char in the new game I don't want her to be a cheep copy of Bastila (cause she was a popular char), then they should better put in Bastila...

Vaelastraz 01-17-2007 10:45 AM

I got mixed feelings about that. I want Kotor III to take place decades after KII and that would lead to Bastila being dead.

But if it's just a few after K2, Bastila could play quite a major role... Old characters get boring, I agree, but Bastila may have changed entirely. Finding out about her newest agenda and her motives anhd feelings could be just as interesting as exploring a new character. For me anyway. :D

Salzella 01-17-2007 11:27 AM

Hmmm, yeah maybe not a party member. Howeever, like her or not, she is an important part of the KOTOR era, and integral to Revan's story (if you take the canonical path), so i can't see her being dead, or not appearing in it at all. The idea of her being found dead in the unknown regions is fine i guess, but correct me if i'm wrong, wasn't it the Exile who went to search for Revan? if that's the case, Bastila would most likely have stayed behind with Carth et al, protecting the Republic, or what's left of it. I think it unlikely she would not play a part.

Master Kavar 01-17-2007 12:14 PM

I would like to see Bastila return to KotOR III in the form of a non-playable Jedi Master on the head Council, maybe even as Grand Jedi Master. Even if Bastila had turned to the dark side in the first game, I'd like to believe that without Revan's influence Bastila would eventually come back to her senses and return to the Jedi...or what's left of it.

mimartin 01-17-2007 12:39 PM

I don't want Bastila is KotOR III. Been there, done that lets move on to something new. If she does appear I hope it is handled in the same way as TSL, brief and to the point. While I agree she is a very important part of the KotOR universe, like Prime said, her story been told. It is time to move on to someone new and different.

Titanius Anglesmith 01-17-2007 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Architect
Actually, she was a Jedi Knight in KotOR.

I'm just going by what Master Zhar said. The first time you meet him and he introduces you to the Masters, he says, "Padawan Bastila, I am sure you are already familiar with."

But anyway, that's pretty off-topic, so let's close that discussion. ;)

Chonan45 01-17-2007 04:50 PM

Bastila is one of the few Jedi remaining by the end of Kotor2. She may even be the only one as the Exile leaves known space, and none of the crew from Kotor2 are certain to be trained Jedi (since it is entirely optional).

So I think that if an eventual Kotor3 takes places in known space and not too long after Kotor2, then Bastila will have a role in re-building the Jedi Order.
She probably won't be a party member, although I would like it so.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KotO[REvan]
HK-47, T3-M4, and Mandalore

Talk about characters whose stories has been told :rolleyes:

The only one which have any reason to be in the party in Kotor3 would be T3-M4 because of the Navi Computer. Hk-47's comments were funny in Kotor, but tedious in Kotor2, no need to see any more of that particular droid. Canderous already has the task of gathering the clans. It was ridiculous that he could join the party in Kotor2. In kotor3 he should only appear in cut-scenes if even that. His story has been told.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
but everyone else should be new.

Considering the boring, shallow, 2-dimensional and uninteresting characters Obsidian came up with, I'm not particularly keen on "new" characters.

Salzella 01-17-2007 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chonan45
Considering the boring, shallow, 2-dimensional and uninteresting characters Obsidian came up with, I'm not particularly keen on "new" characters.

i partly agree, partly disagree with that. i'll admit, when i first saw the list of characters, i thought 'rip-off'. Canderous (again) HK-47 (again) TM (again), Hanharr (another wookie...), they were just recylced parts. having played it, i do not find these new characters as interesting, cannot relate to them as much as in the original KOTOR. bastila was one of my favourites from KOTOR I, and i would be disappointed were she not to return, or play a part.

another thing... if the characters were entirely new, where would we establish the continuity? it's KOTOR III, not a spin-off, as far as we know, and the developers would something in the way of a link to the previous two, whatever form that may take. bastila would be an obvious choice.

Arátoeldar 01-17-2007 06:19 PM

Personally while I agree that Bastila's story is done. I wouldn't mind her in the game. By that I mean if you can have Kreia the former Jedi Master-Sith Lord-Gray Jedi as a low level character. I don't see why not you couldn't have Bastila as low level character. (Barbra Hale's voice :drool: )

I personally don't want to see Canderous Ordo/Mandalore back> While I love the character. Stick a fork in his story it's done. Realistically the only two characters I want back are HK & T3.

The Architect 01-17-2007 09:06 PM

I’m not a fan of the idea of KotOR III taking place anymore than five years after TSL. I say make it canonical that regardless of Revan’s gender/alignment, Bastila is alive in KotOR III no matter what. She can’t just be treated like she’s fallen off the map, so to speak. We all know she has the potential for a major role in KotOR III. Make her the master of the PC in KotOR III I say! And Mandalore should have an important role in KotOR III as well, but not be a party member. He should get more than just a cameo or so though.

Titanius Anglesmith 01-17-2007 09:16 PM

Well, Bastila should definitely be in it, whether she is a party member or not, I don't really care. All that matters is that she's in it.

SilentScope001 01-17-2007 09:24 PM

Quote:

By that I mean if you can have Kreia the former Jedi Master-Sith Lord-Gray Jedi as a low level character.
The reason she was low level was that Kreia was stripped of the Force by the Sith...Just like you were stripped of the Force (but, of course, you were the one that stripped it from yourself). I don't think Bastilla should be stripped of the force...that would be too repetetive.

Just make her a true NPC, either LS or DS depending on Revan.

BattleDog 01-17-2007 09:39 PM

I think Obsideon made a mistake by having alternate endings to K1 in K2 and if they do the same again then eventually the story will be so wattered down it will just be boring.

K1 had characters that looked like cardboard cutouts but developed, Obsideon almost went back the other way. Atton looks like he might be interesting but he's just Han Solo with force powers, Kreia looks like a grey Jedi but she turns out just to be a Sith.

K2 only makes sense if you wnet LS in K1 because Revan WINS in the darkside ending, the fleet is destroyed and all that remains is to take Coruscant. The K2 you basically have to believe that Revan left and that then everyone else just stopped working, Revan wasn't even that big in K1, he's the hero, not the king.

K3 should go canon and then use that to build a really good solid story like K1 had.

Titanius Anglesmith 01-17-2007 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleDog
K2 only makes sense if you wnet LS in K1 because Revan WINS in the darkside ending, the fleet is destroyed and all that remains is to take Coruscant. The K2 you basically have to believe that Revan left and that then everyone else just stopped working, Revan wasn't even that big in K1, he's the hero, not the king.

Actually, it says that when Revan left, without the strength of a leader, they fell back into civil war...as they always do. You're right, Revan isn't "the king" but he is a strong leader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleDog
K3 should go canon and then use that to build a really good solid story like K1 had.

Oh...I completely disagree. There would be ways to fit the story around the players past choices. I don't want my choices and my characters from the past games to simply be discarded like they never existed.

The Architect 01-18-2007 02:16 AM

Saying that KotOR III should go canon with Revan and the Exile on this forum should be ban worthy if you ask me. Not really, but going canon in KotOR III would be completely stupid, lame and unnecessary.

What is the point of even playing KotOR and TSL then? As Emperor Devon said, I would hesitate to call it KotOR III. Use your imagination more. It’s entirely possible to do a ‘workable’ and ‘solid’ storyline in KotOR III without going canon, capish?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chonan45
Considering the boring, shallow, 2-dimensional and uninteresting characters Obsidian came up with, I'm not particularly keen on "new" characters.

Umm…WTF are you talking about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salzella
i partly agree, partly disagree with that. i'll admit, when i first saw the list of characters, i thought 'rip-off'.

That’s what I thought about KotOR's party members, except for Jolee and HK-47.

Totenkopf 01-18-2007 04:40 AM

Quote:

Oh...I completely disagree. There would be ways to fit the story around the players past choices. I don't want my choices and my characters from the past games to simply be discarded like they never existed.


I agree that choices should remain, but think it a bit melodramatic to think in terms of a canon storyline somehow destroying your choices from the first two. Of course, if you've only played either of the first two games once or twice (1 LS/ 1 DS), then perhaps this might be a hangup for you. I've played them enough times that canon wouldn't give me fits of apoplexy, but would still manage to be a wee bit stifling.

Salzella 01-18-2007 11:04 AM

it would be nigh-on impossible to make every character choice possible in KOTOR III, it would be daft to try. to a certain extent, canon should play a part. when you have at least four possible ending combinations, 16 (i think) if you include gender, trying to make space for all of them in one game is just not feasible, if you want to have a truly involving game, without it being unecessarily watered down.

SilentScope001 01-18-2007 08:15 PM

Quote:

it would be nigh-on impossible to make every character choice possible in KOTOR III, it would be daft to try. to a certain extent, canon should play a part. when you have at least four possible ending combinations, 16 (i think) if you include gender, trying to make space for all of them in one game is just not feasible, if you want to have a truly involving game, without it being unecessarily watered down.
You got 4 combinitons for Revan. 4 Combinations for Exile. Just pulls some switches on, and that is it.

Revan is LS, at least Carth is alive (Bastilla as well if Male). Revan is DS, Bastilla is Darth Lord of Sith. Exile is LS, Mical/Handmadien are Jedi. Exile is DS, Mical/Handmadien are Sith.

Remember that, in the big picture, it did not really matter what happened to Revan. Wheter he saved the Republic or prepared for his destruction, he still fled the galaxy to battle the True Sith, leaving the Republic and the Jedi to die. This "big picture" will remain constant in K3, and no matter what alignment the Exile will be set to, he/she will still do something drastic.

The only things that matter is the small differences. Do not account for all changes, but only a couple of things. If Revan is DS, Bastilla will not be sitting on the Jedi Council. All it takes is:

[If Revan=DarkSide, BastillaOnCouncil Is Off.]

Simple. The changes ARE watered down, but are not important, and only exist to make us feel happy. For the most part, it will be a truly involving game.

And what is more involving than changing the fates of the games? Just think about it...Revan falling to the DS has a profound effect on the later games. It makes me feel proud of that, and that provides it an involvment that I do not have with other games.

Salzella 01-19-2007 10:58 AM

yeah, granted, but it all depends what the storyline turns out to be. i personally find it highly unlikely the return of Revan will not play a part, in which case all those little changes sort of go out of the window, especially if he (or she) returns with the Exile.

Angelos Kumani 01-19-2007 06:16 PM

To clarify exactly what my position is just a few things first...

1. If it is to be KOTOR III, then there must be knights...whether this is kinghts of the old order (represented by KOTOR I and II) or knights of a new order(the lost jedi idea from KOTOR II) that remains to be seen.

2. Since they are Knights, there should be a council - again the compostition (light/dark and who) can be worked out several different ways (some of the other posters here (silent scope for one) have pointed out very easy ways to determine this).

3. As we have seen with the Jedi in all of the movies and games to date, there is the council and then those that have not earned enough favor to sit on the council. And only in times of great need are those on the council willing to get out there and risk their own butts(and sometimes not even then(cough, mandolarian wars, cough))!

That being said, I think that Bastilla will have a role and like others on this post - I do not think that it would be too hard to imagine that the developers of the game make her roles in KOTOR I and II canon - leaving her alive for KOTOR III. That being said, considering the importance of Revan, I would think that Revan's companions would definetly have favor with the new council. I think that Bastilla would have a seat if she choose to accept it (whether she does or not may be up in the air). So I think that would eliminate her from a more interactive role with a new PC.

My idea for a mentor of your new PC, would be to make them an individual that has lost favor with the council...I have always envisioned that at least Mical/Brianna, Atton and Bastilla would sit on the council. So who would be a Jedi that posibly would have lost face with this council? I think that a great story idea (only possible by creating canon from KOTOR II possibilities), would be to bring Atris back as a redeemed Jedi who is determined to be a part of the necessary actions to help the galaxy. She would be a great mentor, that would have a lot of great back story dialogue options (considering she was once the Jedi Historian, she has got to have a few stories floating around in that head of hers) - and I have always pictured her as a weaker fighter (due to the fact that she choose to hide in the past and "learn"), so I don't think that it would be too hard to buy into a story line where she is not that much stronger than your new PC to begin the game...

What do you think?

Salzella 01-19-2007 06:28 PM

Kumani: sounds good to me. not sure about Atton being on the council, but the others definitely. Atton's character is too unstable for a Master, not to mention his role in the Civil War... as for the mentor, sounds good also.

Angelos Kumani 01-19-2007 06:51 PM

Salzella: I don't know if you trained Atton as a Jedi/Sith in the games or not, but I always did. I felt that part of the reason that Atton was so shifty to begin with was the fact that he had not accepted his heritage/ability/affinity to the/of the/with the force...when trained to accept that part of his life, I always felt that his character would become a little more "stable". But hey, that's just my opinion and since I am not a developer (or George), I can not determine "canon" - I can only offer ideas!

The Architect 01-19-2007 07:22 PM

I don’t know so much Angelos Kumani. I tend to think that if your Exile spared Atris in TSL, then she went on a self imposed exile and therefore wouldn’t be seen regardless in KotOR III. Or there’s the other possibility that if your Exile spared Atris, then the Sith holocrons killed her, since they do not abide failure.

Either way, I’d rather not see that narrow-minded, rude, bigoted schutta in KotOR III at all. I can see the vividness in your idea, but seriously, Atris sucks big time. If it were assumed that Atris lives no matter what in KotOR III, then I think it’d be a nice side-quest or main-quest to kill her….again!

Salzella 01-20-2007 10:26 AM

Kumani: eh, i did train Atton yeah, but he never got particularly powerful, as i only trained him at level 19...

PoiuyWired 01-20-2007 12:29 PM

Well, he was my dual pistol jedi :3

And yes, the only reasonable choice for Chick Exile, Ds or LS.

Darth Avlectus 02-09-2007 03:40 PM

Someone with a lot of controversy. Canderous was sort of this, but I'm talking like someone who is tainted within the republic. Before you start bunching up your collective panties and flarimg me, consider that a controversial character could make for an interesting storyline? (couldn't hurt)

For example, a freedom fighter who has been put to the wayside because some of his (or her--but I can't imagine her being very attractive--unless she were like chun li from street fighter, but that would kind of ruin the point of the character) action that came under scrutiny. Accusations of corruption and racism or something.

The point being you have a renegade on your team, and like him or her, you are both on the 'outside', yet it seems like nobody on the 'inside' has the resolve to fix the current catastrophe. Ad perhaps a faction from within (though not at the top) has made it that way--perhaps indirectly but eventually responsible for your troubles?


The character--sort of like someone who has a past of KKK who eventually saw through it and changed; regardless, someone will dig up dirt and hyperbolize it in the media. This person now can't do anything right in the eyes of the public unless it were something stupendously huge. And it in turn contradicts the very heart ofthe negative view that the majority seems to have.

Canderous was sort of like this--now perhaps the character is one who was once part of the republic but too tainted in the republics eyes to be effective in a political sense withjin the republic--though is like canderous in most respects. Someone you could play good cop-bad cop with while you interrogate somebody.

Maybe a bit like how Finis Valorum was brought down, from power. (and eventually assasinated --all culminated by palpatine) If you read the SW republic #63.

Except the scourge who plagues him--who you will eventually kill-- is instead not at the top, but around. Black market ish on the other side of things. Your renegade knew about this but could not bring the faction down--though you could.

Could be a district attourney of a lawyer's guild. Lawyers are just as bad as politicians. Anybody ever read the (I think) john grisham series?

The street lawyer, for example? One Lawyer sees the richy-rich lawyers for what they really are or have become. And decides to start his own firm in a ghetto. He is scruitnized for it.

THERE'S a set of good reads for ya!

aner21 03-13-2007 01:34 PM

I hope they don't bring back G0T0 or mandalore at all for that matter. Unless he has a violent death on screen and you don't have to stop it. I never got why he shows up in TSL. He was a nice character on K1 and in the 2nd he was just a waste of pixels. I hope they pick some of the lost jedis from TSL and at least clear up what happened to the characters from K1 (in case your LS) Did they die on Katarr or not?? If not maybe cameos as NPCs.

Jediphile 03-13-2007 02:11 PM

GOTO is unlikely to return, since his death in the cut content LS ending of TSL was since accepted into canon by the New Essential Guide to Droids, which mentions his destruction at Malachor V. That being the case, he could only return in K3 if the Exile is set to DS by the player, which seems more trouble than it's worth, especially since EVERYBODY seems to hate GOTO. I hated him too, although I thought he was an excellent character - the sort you love to hate ;)

The Sith'ari 03-14-2007 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristy Kistic
Well put. Besides, it can be dangerous to mess with something that has already become classic. More often than not it takes away from rather than adds to.

Not necessarily. It just depends on whether another good story could be told and added to the character's agenda. Substance is all that matters.


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