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Darth Badguy 03-03-2007 08:07 AM

The execution of order 66 sucked...
 
In my opinion, the execution of order 66 was really really bad. The clones could have done it without any losses and even Yoda and Obi One could have been killed.

Take Ki Adi Mundu. The clones get Order 66 and what do they do? They go stand behind him and reload, one by one. I mean, wtf? They could have reloaded a long time before and if they had to reload now, reload together, not one after the other... even a gungan could have taken some clones with him now...

And what about obi-one? Instead of using a large group of snipers to take him down and some heavy troopers with bazookas to fisnih it, COdy decides to take ONE, SINGLE heavy trooper!!! Why? In the battle of Utapau there were THOUSANDS of clones...

Yoda at last. A clone trooper walks toward a Scout Trooper to tell him "Let's kill Yoda". A Scout Trooper. He has a damn sniperrifle!!! And what do they doe? They walk towards Yoda and stop one meter behind him...

CSI 03-04-2007 06:24 AM

If Yoda and Obi-wan Died, then there would be no Epi. 4,5,and 6.

Darth Badguy 03-04-2007 08:09 AM

*Sigh*, I know that, I'm just telling you that the clone troppers sucked in order 66

Pho3nix 03-04-2007 08:17 AM

Indeed they did. I also think the Jedi sucked, a lifetime of training and they go down from a few blaster shots? meh.

But the movie is done, so you just have to live with it.

PoiuyWired 03-04-2007 08:28 AM

Well, Actually they could have it done with more finesse. Well they should have sent a whole bunch of rpgs at Obi Wan instead of one, ince rpg might be a bit better with no saber deflection(though force push would work) Obviously a mix of rpg and sniper simotaneous attack would have solved the problem. Though obviously a too perfect 66 scheme on survivable characters would be bad.

As for yoda, at least they should have given the effort to use sniper rifles. It is ok if they get deflect killed, but it would make both clones and yoda look cooler.

As for Vos, that is a more reasonable one, I mean they try to search and kill him carefully.

Secura... what a waste of a hot twi'lek body, they should have used a more gentle way of termination, so did offee.

Darth Badguy 03-05-2007 09:50 AM

Vos? I can't remember seeing him die in the movie...

MachineCult 03-08-2007 10:56 AM

Vos didn't die, and he wasn't in the movie.

JoeDoe 2.0 03-08-2007 10:58 AM

Read the STAR WARS: CLONE WARS VOLUME 9: ENDGAME to see how Vos escaped.

PoiuyWired 03-08-2007 01:33 PM

Vos is "mentioned" in the movie, and the battle he is mentioned in... OMG that is one of the coolest star wars battle.


Oh the related episodes are first in Star Wars Republic 81-83 Hidden loyalties. Oh the Inferno is there also, yay!

Kurgan 03-08-2007 09:34 PM

Didn't one source say he was torn apart by an explosion? That got retconned so he could survive.

It's the EU, go figure... in Episode III we just got a mention of a "Master Vos." No explanation given for who his is or what happens to him (I just presumed he died with all the other Jedi aside from Obi-Wan, Yoda and Vader, via Order 66 and the immediate aftermath).

And now apparently Shaak Ti is alive too, despite the fact that we have two different accounts of her death (neither seen in the movie; in one Grievous executes her on the Invisible Hand, in another she's at the temple and Anakin catches her off guard and kills her).

All of these "lost Jedi" have to survive the purge of course, to give the EU fodder to keep going. Of course before the prequels were made, they had these dozens of Jedi that had survived, that we never heard of (and were never mentioned in any of the movies). It's just because the writers (and apparently the readers) want to hear about all this Jedi stuff, and it's hard to do that if they're all dead except for the two in hiding we know about (and the one turncoat who now works for the Emperor).

PoiuyWired 03-09-2007 07:55 AM

Actually the Source of him being killed is the same source about him surviving the explosion in wookieeworld. He survived the explosion, managed to evade/terminate the clones(he hates them) hunting him while heavily wounded, and met up with his son and wife, and the ninja jedi couple with the help of an Inferno demon. The same episode also confirms the death of Luminara.

Note that Vos survived using both Jedi and Sith ways, as he claimed, he is going to be with his slut(ex slut) whatever way it takes, be it light or dark.

Kylilin 03-09-2007 04:55 PM

Speaking of Quinlan Vos, there is speculation that he will play a part in the live action Star Wars TV show coming in a few years. Any thoughts?

JoeDoe 2.0 03-09-2007 07:20 PM

Yeah, I think I have seen that someplace else, if its true, then I hope the actor who plays him portrays him well.

jawathehutt 03-15-2007 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pho3nix
Indeed they did. I also think the Jedi sucked, a lifetime of training and they go down from a few blaster shots? meh.

But the movie is done, so you just have to live with it.

Thats like saying that SEALs suck if they get shot. True they spend tons of time training, but if you get shot repeatedly, theres a very high chance your going to die, training or none.

Nedak 03-15-2007 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pho3nix
But the movie is done, so you just have to live with it.

I wonder if GL knows that the prequels arenít very good...

Jurrassco 03-16-2007 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Badguy
And what about obi-one? Instead of using a large group of snipers to take him down and some heavy troopers with bazookas to fisnih it, COdy decides to take ONE, SINGLE heavy trooper!!! Why? In the battle of Utapau there were THOUSANDS of clones...

well, acually, the didn't use a heavy trooper at all. it was an AT-TE. Cody probably thought that an AT-TE could handle a Jedi Knight.

PoiuyWired 03-17-2007 09:43 AM

Well, I think the AT-TE failed to kill any jedi knights. If I remember right they try to kill Vos with a AT-TE cannon also while he is on top of a dreadnought.

NOTE: Dreadnaught is a vehicle, not a walking robot-like armor thingy with a deadish person inside.

Darth Badguy 03-25-2007 10:13 AM

Dreadnought is also a star-destroyer-sized spaceship

Bomberman65 03-26-2007 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by han sala
I wonder if GL knows that the prequels arenít very good...

What are you talking aobut. I love the PT just as much as the OT. Infact I see them as one movie not at 6 movies. The PT is great but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

MachineCult 03-26-2007 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomberman65
What are you talking aobut. I love the PT just as much as the OT. Infact I see them as one movie not at 6 movies. The PT is great but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I completely agree, all the movies are the Star Wars saga and I don't see how people can hate one half of it but love the other.

Bomberman65 03-26-2007 05:23 AM

Yeah Its strange. But mah some people are SW fans and others like me and MC are true SW fans.

PoiuyWired 03-26-2007 07:52 AM

Well, I basically like both OT and PT. Obviously there are parts I don't like about some of the movies either due to acting(you know what I mean) and scripts(OP love dialogue etc) or overexposure of some characters(couple jarjar scenes), but basically I like all parts of the saga. Oh yeah that includes many of the EU moments too.

Bomberman65 03-26-2007 05:54 PM

What we're saying is if you like the OT more than the PT then your not a true fan. You have to like them both the same. I mean you can have your gripes about both trilogys but you still have to like both the same to be a true SW fan.

PoiuyWired 03-27-2007 02:15 AM

Define "the same:?

I like both relatively the same. Star Wars is one big movie divided in 6 parts(and some EU) But obviously there are episodes and sections that someone like more. I mean, even for pure OT fans many of them would have a fav(like ESB)

Oh, anyont think that good old orbital bombardment would be a better way to finish off some of the jedis? Sure you might kill some clones, but it might work better. Obviously I would also suggest some nice biochemical weaponary, but I doubt the clones would be equipped with those at the time.

gatekeeper6838 04-02-2007 09:10 PM

I think the prequel trilogy just wasn't pulled off right, period. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy those movies. In fact, I jumped on the bandwagon when I saw Episode II and III and said that I almost enjoyed them as much as the original movies. It wasn't until I actually sat down and watched them all in order, on DVD in all their widescreen glory that I realized how much worse the prequels are. In fact, I've watched all 6 movies several times in order over the last year or so, and the more I watch them, the more I feel the originals are superior.

My biggest problem looking back on the prequels is that they just aren't believable. What the original movies had was realism and subtlety, everything from the real locations they were filmed at to the ingenious designs of the spacecraft. Even the love between Han and Leia was far more subtle and believable than Anakin and Padme's relationship, which seemed a little to forced and over the top. Sure, this is a sci-fi series, but it was a world (or, should I say galaxy) that we could easily relate to our own. Flight maneuvers in the space battles were patterned after real World War II dogfights. The imperials seemed like a real world empire, reminiscent of Rome or Germany. They were a much more believable (and menacing) enemy than the awful, bumbling, laughable trade federation with their cartoony (and just plain annoying) battle droids.

That brings me to my next point. Although the prequels have neat special effects, it seems so much more childish and cartoon like. I am aware that children are one of Star War's chief audiences, but it was as if I, II and III tried to appeal to much to kids and not enough to older audiences. In the original movies, sure, there were things that were obviously meant for a younger audience, but it also had a very serious atmosphere throughout the film. If you think about it, most of the creatures and robots in the prequels are a joke and can hardly be taken seriously at all. I think it's okay to have a few goofy characters in even serious movies, but I, II and III are chock full of them whereas the original movies only had a handful, and their goofiness was subtle .

My final complaint revolves around the plot holes the prequels generated. In my opinion, there are too many inconsistencies with the references made in the original movies compared to what actually happens in the prequels.

Anyway, that's my two cents. And, like I said, I still enjoy the prequels and even go as far as to say they're great movies. They're just not great Star Wars movies.

PoiuyWired 04-03-2007 05:26 AM

Well, jarjar aside PT is not as bad as you think. I do agree that the scripting/cting is not as good in some places, and the romance part is just, badly done. Its like, if that id how GL would act to a girl then there is no way there would be Mrs. GL unless GL persuades the girl with a huge wooden stick and drag her home.

But I don't mind the more heroic and direct approach of things like Flight maneuvers and what not. I mean these are Jedis and droids mostly. Yes I like the way OT did it, despite the fact that things can be done so differently since its space with no gravity and many more things can be changed. But its a different war, so different approach is needed.

Its a different atmosphere, cause IT IS DIFFERENT. There is a difference between a corrupted republic, and a powerful galactic empire.

gatekeeper6838 04-04-2007 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Well, jarjar aside PT is not as bad as you think. I do agree that the scripting/cting is not as good in some places, and the romance part is just, badly done. Its like, if that id how GL would act to a then there is no way there would be Mrs. GL unless GL persuades the with a huge wooden stick and drag her home.

But I don't mind the more heroic and direct approach of things like Flight maneuvers and what not. I mean these are Jedis and droids mostly. Yes I like the way OT did it, despite the fact that things can be done so differently since its space with no gravity and many more things can be changed. But its a different war, so different approach is needed.

Its a different atmosphere, cause IT IS DIFFERENT. There is a difference between a corrupted republic, and a powerful galactic empire.

You're right. It is different, and it's supposed to be different. I don't think different is a bad thing, but I think they could have pulled it off a little better. That doesn't mean the PT are bad movies, I just think they had more potential than they ended up showing.

I do think I should mention what was done right in the PT, and there are several things that I think are worth mentioning. For one, I can safely say the light saber battle in Phantom Menace was phenomenal. It's one of those scenes that I'll watch by itself if I've got a few minutes here and there, even if I don't watch the rest of the movie. Attack of the Clones had some great scenes, namely the fight between Jango Fett and Obi Wan and the light saber duel against Count Dookou (spelling?). I even particularly enjoy the scene where the clone troops come in and rescue the outnumbered jedi by wasting the pathetic Trade Tederation and Geonosians. Even the sense of mystery and darker atmosphere in Ep. II is pulled off in a decent fashion.

There are even some very scenic moments in Episode III, but after watching it several times I'm starting to think Epsiode III is my least favorite (next to Phantom)... not because of the storyline, but because of it's execution. Anikan's unbelievable, almost instantaneous turn to the Dark Side was disappointing. They did more in Episode II to make Anikan's transition to the darkside believable than in Episode III. The execution of order 66 (getting back to the original subject of this thread) is bad, as well as Darth Vader's lame behavior upon suiting up. And let's not forget that awful, pointless filler character General Grievous. Nevertheless, I still enjoyed the movie. I enjoyed all of them, and still do enjoy them, I just don't think they lived up to the originals. However, to be fair the PT had a lot to live up to and certainly deserve to be judged in their own right, OT aside. That being said, the PT are still good.

PoiuyWired 04-05-2007 02:24 PM

I have to agree that without watching the EU(comics, tv animation, you know the whole drill) anakin's fall seems all too fast. That also makes a point. There are things in the PT series that are there assuming you are already in the know about some starwars stuff (and planty comments that are there only for the fans). That means, it is expacted that you understand the stories of OT before you walked into the theatre. Then again, it would be hard to understand for us people here. I mean, everyone here have watched the movies at least once, perhaps more. But there are people out there who did not even spend the time to sit and watch the whole OT before they start watching the PT, and there will be things that are confusing to them. (Yes I got this response from a friend when we all go watch PM the first time)

gatekeeper6838 04-06-2007 01:36 AM

True. Not everyone who watches the prequels has necessarily seen the originals or been exposed to the EU. In fact, I have to admit that even I haven't read/seen a good chunk of the expanded universe stuff out there, aside from a few Star Wars EU books and games here and there (In a game of Star Wars Trivial Pursuit I wasted my friend in the trivia from the movies, but he had the upper hand in the EU trivia).

There is a lot of EU material out there, and one of the things I don't like about the EU is that there are a lot of plot inconsistencies. This is understandable (even excusable) because there are so many different authors/game designers/producers, etc. that it would be impossible to have every book, tv show, game and comic connect perfectly. For that very reason, I don't consider the EU as having any authority on the actual storyline Lucas wrote. In other words, I don't think the EU has any bearing on the story of the two trilogies. That doesn't mean they aren't good stories, however.

What I don't think is excusable is how George Lucas, who is the final authority when it comes to the movie story lines, failed to properly connect the two trilogies together. It's like they're loosely based on each other (like the EU) but there are still plot inconsistencies between the two trilogies.

MeToua 04-06-2007 02:26 AM

I would agree. they really didnt connect but were good

aner21 05-28-2007 07:57 PM

Personaly I'm a fan of the OT but find the PT lacking. The thing is, most people saw the OT and know how it'll end.
PT should've been carefully thought up, since its easy to make it dull and uninteresting. The PT's timetable is its own worse enemy. It's inadequate and a bit dull (I really saw no need to introduce young Anakin for the entire movie, the first half was more than enough, not to mention that jarjar "character") you could almost squeeze all the EpI and 1st half of Ep2 in one movie storiewise, 2nd half of Ep2 and 1st half Ep3 in another and actually make Anakin's fall to the dark side and the destruction of the entire Jedi Order something worth seeing instead of shoot, miss, hit, your dead. In under 10 minutes the Order ceases to exist and some characters had a really poor and underated death.

Master Kai 07-19-2007 12:40 AM

What about poor Plo-Koon, he didn't even get a chance to use his lightsaber to defend himself, instead he was shot down...which by the way was shot way too easy. You'd think that a master of the council would have better force sensitivity to be able to sense being shot at :P Anyway, although the movie was kewl, order 66 did seem to make the jedi appear weak, even though they were taken by suprise.

hellhawk 08-08-2007 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Kai
What about poor Plo-Koon, he didn't even get a chance to use his lightsaber to defend himself, instead he was shot down...which by the way was shot way too easy. You'd think that a master of the council would have better force sensitivity to be able to sense being shot at :P Anyway, although the movie was kewl, order 66 did seem to make the jedi appear weak, even though they were taken by suprise.

i noticed that to... ki adi mundai was also a jedi master who was killed without to much effert. i mean shoudent he be able to sense there trying to kill him rather then sit there signaling like a drunken lindsey lohanhs?

Sir Phobos 08-12-2007 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Badguy
In my opinion, the execution of order 66 was really really bad. The clones could have done it without any losses and even Yoda and Obi One could have been killed.

Clone trooper losses? Theres more where they came from!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Badguy
Take Ki Adi Mundu. The clones get Order 66 and what do they do? They go stand behind him and reload, one by one. I mean, wtf? They could have reloaded a long time before and if they had to reload now, reload together, not one after the other... even a gungan could have taken some clones with him now...

But hey died right? Mission accomplished...and he only took a one or two clone troopers out with him. I expected a little better than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Badguy
And what about obi-one? Instead of using a large group of snipers to take him down and some heavy troopers with bazookas to fisnih it, COdy decides to take ONE, SINGLE heavy trooper!!! Why? In the battle of Utapau there were THOUSANDS of clones...

Yeop...that was sloppy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Badguy
Yoda at last. A clone trooper walks toward a Scout Trooper to tell him "Let's kill Yoda". A Scout Trooper. He has a damn sniperrifle!!! And what do they doe? They walk towards Yoda and stop one meter behind him...

Again that was just plain dumb but we're talking about two of our main characters here. Order 66 went off (largely) spectacular in my opinion. Perfect timing and almost every single Jedi dead, I think that's pretty good. Empire 4 teh win.

PoiuyWired 08-13-2007 01:35 AM

I was always thinking that Maybe the trust and close friendly relationship between Cody and ObiWan works both ways. Subconsciously Cody is trying to help ObiWan so he send less than effective firepower to hunt down his former friend.

Remember, that some clone units would go as far as protecting the Jedis rather than executing order 66.

In the end it is a win-win situation.

DarthMuffin 08-13-2007 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
I was always thinking that Maybe the trust and close friendly relationship between Cody and ObiWan works both ways. Subconsciously Cody is trying to help ObiWan so he send less than effective firepower to hunt down his former friend.

Remember, that some clone units would go as far as protecting the Jedis rather than executing order 66.

In the end it is a win-win situation.

Yes, like in the Vader novel where the jedi (forgot his name) is actually saved by his commandos. Perhaps the commanders, like Cody, had more individuality left than the normal clones (at least enough for his friendship to take some place). Of course that's all speculation and we'll never know.

When people say that some Jedi, like Ki Adi Mundi, died too easily, they forget that they really did not expect to get shot by their own soldiers. Even a Jedi with uber reflexes and all would be stunned for a moment to see the soldiers he fought with for months turn against him.

aner21 08-20-2007 09:32 PM

Still, we ARE talking of a universe were force sensitives can see the future. The way it was handled was ... poor. The only person who had a fighting chance was a youngling at the temple, and we all know who his daddy is...
Ayla Secura's death was another one that ticked me. the clone had time to receive the call, raise its weapon against her, take aim, fire and she didn't "sense" it some how?? She was standing next to him and nothing?
A ripple, a disturbance in the force, something???
Its not has if she was fighting someone with the necessary training and discipline to disguise the instant mental change that happened when the order was received.

PoiuyWired 08-21-2007 01:59 AM

Well, Hence many Jedis got away from what we know it. And in defence of Secura, She did notice something is wrong, but is distracted by other things. People like A'Sharad Hett escaped in other ways also. And, many of those Jedis would escape the initial clone attack to be hunted down later. Some would just decide to live like non jedis.

Btw, to the clones this is just an order like always, with no special emotion attached to it, making it much harder to sense, especially when jedis do not usually like to peek into others mind.

Totenkopf 08-25-2007 12:25 AM

As I recall, the DS cast a pall over the future and made things harder for the jedi in general. As it takes but a moment to pull a/many triggers, the element of surprise coupled w/a moments hesitation is more than enough to do even a jedi (especially a distracted one) in.

As to Anakin's fall, he had already fallen pretty far by the last movie. Since several years have passed between AOTC and RoTJ, it's not so surprising that he'd fall so "quickly". But that "Nooooo..." at the end was sadly pathetic.

PoiuyWired 08-25-2007 02:58 PM

He should have yelled "D'oh" Homer Style!!!

And yes a split-second's hesitation is enough for anyone to be dead, Jedi or not-jedi. Plus, as said before, a jedi in a vehicle is roufhly only equal to the vehicle in its top performance. Just because there is a jedi inside doesn't turn your starfighter into a Starscream or other things funky(even though that would be cool). Plus, invincable vehicles due to special pilots is the area of Anime, not Jedis, so no playing Zeta Gundam.


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