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Yohein 03-06-2007 12:41 PM

Behaviour or money?
I think this was discussed a bit some time ago but didn't come to anything very clear.
I'm replaying this great game and I notice there are certain comments that suggest, in one side, that the important thing to have a good travel package is being buried with a lot of money (Manny says that to Celso at the beggining, the manual explains this old custom, Celso mentioning his wife has his money...), and in the other side, that the important thing is being good in life (Eva says that, Manny is surprised because Meche hasn't a good travel package and she was good in life...).

I think the game is clearly trying to show the important thing is the behaviour, but there are certain comments that make me doubt... well, I guess that Manny saying that to Celso at the beggining could be just a figurative way of speaking, and Celso saying his wife has all his money (I never understood that comment) could be just one of his jokes, but what do you think about it? which one is the important thing?

King Dando 03-06-2007 02:13 PM

I guess behaviour may be more important in some cases, what with Meche having been assured a ticket on the No. 9 as a reward for all the charity work and whatnot she had done when she was alive, despite the fact she had little or no money.

Although I see your point, perhaps you can couple them together:

Good Behaviour + Money = GOOD

Any money could be used to opt for a better travel package, although having led a good life means you'd probably get a fairly decent one anyway, it's just they'd let you use money to opt for a better one because you have been good.

Bad Behaviour + Money = BAD

Just like when the people who have sinned or whatever try to buy their way out of the Land of the Dead with Double N tickets that aren't actually theirs. They've been bad, having lots of money wont save them.

So I guess money can be important, but only if its linked to good behaviour, by which I mean, having led a good life without sin.

VampireNaomi 03-06-2007 03:14 PM

King Dando explained it perfectly and I can't do anything but agree with him. I used to think that good behaviour was all that was needed, but the tickets probably cost as well.

I just have to wonder. Meche had no money (as she never made enough to even pay taxes) and yet Copal says that she had a Double N ticket and shouldn't have had to walk because of that. Still, I think Dando's explanation is the best one. It's also supported by that Nick (who we can assume had lots of money) went down with the train.

Damn. Every time I think I'm done with this post, something else come to my mind. Anyway, the tickets Nick and others on the train had bought were fake, right? One could speculate that this is the reason the train jumped off the tracks and that they might have made it if they had had real tickets that they had bought from their legal owners. I personally think that they still wouldn't have got to the Ninth Underworld, but it can be argued (based on some lines in the game) that you need money to get the ticket, but the opportunity is only offered for those who are worthy. Even though it's forbidden to sell your ticket (as the Gate Keeper says), I'm wondering what would happen if someone unworthy tried to take the train with a real ticket.

But it probably wouldn't work because the tickets recognise their owner, so there must be some system to find out who is worthy and who is not... What do you think happens if everyone else but one person on the train has a real ticket they've earned, and that one person has cheated? They can't send all those people to Hell (or whatever the punishment is) because of that one soul, so do they just stop the train and kick that person out?

Now I'll stop.

Yohein 03-06-2007 03:40 PM

And maybe we should consider another thing: people being buried with money? That's the costum the game is based in, okay, but then we have to assume that in the world of Grim Fandango (I mean the world of the living) everyone is buried with money like the mayas? (I think it was them).
I think I'm more inclined to the good behaviour only (I think the "message" of the game would be much better), although that combination of them both King Dando made is VERY interesting.
It could be something like this too: if you are extremely good (like Meche) you have your Double N ticket, no matter how poor you were. If you don't qualify for the Double N, the money becomes important.
But in any case, Eva's explanation is very precise: "They deserve better travel packages because they led better lifes".

And about the tickets, I think that even if they would have been real tickets they couldn't have passed. The Gate Keeper says "A Double N ticket is something that can't be bought" (or something like that), if a real ticket was enough even if it's not yours... Hector probably shouldn't have collected so much, as Manny says, "in a desperate attempt to get out of the Land of the Dead". I think he knew he couldn't use someone else's ticket, and he had been a very bad person in the Land of the Dead in addition... who knows, maybe so many tickets would have done the trick.

VampireNaomi 03-07-2007 03:00 AM

Regarding the money, I think someone in another thread came up with the idea that a good life is changed into currency when you die. Not actual money that can buy you anything (because Meche was poor) but the kind that can only be used to get a travel package. That idea needs developing a little, but it's worth a thought. It certainly sounds absurd that people would still be buried with real money in the Land of the Living because when Manny briefly visits it, it looks like it's around 1950's.

All the lines about being buried with money, wanting a dead rich saint etc. might have been just expressions of speech. For example, it's possible that all this talk about money is just Reaper slang for a good life. After all, Domino said he sold a Double N Ticket to a nun (which he of course didn't, but it's possible because Manny didn't question it) and nuns aren't generally that rich.

SeaTurtle 03-07-2007 09:39 AM

But why would Domino have to sell the nun a Double-N ticket? Surely she would have had one wating for her? Unless, of course, she was a very bad nun...

The way I always saw it is that the better life you lead, the better your travel package. But if you haven't led a good life, you can upgrade your package, as Manny offers to Bruno. I thought that this would be the 'legal' way of getting a Double-N ticket. Nick and the others had all bought tickets meant for other souls, which is why they never made it to the Ninth Underworld.

That's how I see it, anyway. I'm probably wrong, though, I usually am :roleyess:

VampireNaomi 03-07-2007 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by SeaTurtle
But why would Domino have to sell the nun a Double-N ticket? Surely she would have had one wating for her? Unless, of course, she was a very bad nun...

Beats me, but Manny clearly uses the word "sell" whe he asks Domino about it, so we can assume that, if nothing else, the act of giving someone a Double N ticket is called selling, even if no money is involved.

Your idea of upgrading the package actually sounds like a very good idea. Have you thought about any limitations to it? I mean, the corrupt people have money as well, so how much are they allowed to upgrade, if at all?

It's amazing how we can keep speculating about this in several threads for this long even though we only have a few lines in the game to go by, and most of this is just our own assumptions. :D

SeaTurtle 03-10-2007 11:04 AM

Hmm, I hadn't really thought about limitations as such. I suppose there's the possibility that you can only upgrade by one or two packages e.g. you're allocated the sports car package, but you can upgrade to a luxury cruise if you have enough money. Or maybe that also depends on how good you were in life. If I use Bruno as an example again, he didn't seem particularly nice and was obviously offered a pretty bad package, but he was given the chance to upgrade (which he refused because he's a cheapskate). Maybe this was because, even though he wasn't exactly friendly, he had never nasty or evil (we have to assume).

Does that make sense? This could go one of two ways:

If you haven't been a saint in life, but haven't been particularly nasty either, then you get the chance to upgrade. The amount of money you have determines how much you can upgrade by.


If you have a lot of money when you die you are offered the chance to upgrade, but it depends how good you were in life as to how much you can upgrade by.


Originally Posted by VampireNaomi
Damn. Every time I think I'm done with this post, something else come to my mind.

I understand completely. :giggle1:

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