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-   -   Episode 4: Why I'm disappointed. (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=178949)

jedispy 05-31-2007 04:53 PM

Episode 4: Why I'm disappointed.
 
I tell you one thing that disappointed me in regard to the DVD release of the original trilogy. I wish Lucasfilm would have suped up the EP4 lightsaber scene in the DVD release. Instead they just used the same old original footage. That duel is kind of a let down if you watch the movies in chronological order. Furthermore if you play through the EP3 game for PS2/XBox, you can unlock that duel (Vader vs. Kenobi on Death Star 1). THAT is how the duel should have gone.

I'd have loved to see Vader and Kenobi doing flips and stuff. Don't give me that "but they were old" stuff either. We now know that Kenobi was in his late 50s, and Anakin/Vader was in his 40s. That's not that old. Add in the Force component and they ought to be able to do some cool stuff. Let us also not forget to mention that Darth Vader had cybernetic implants. Look at the 6 million dollar man, or the bionic woman. Vader should have been able to crazy awesome stunts even without the Force.

Look at Yoda. He was 800+ years old by the time of EP2 & EP3. He was doing crazy mad moves guided by the Force. Look at Darth Sidious in EP3. When dueling Mace Windu he was doing cool acrobatic moves too. I'd figure he's no younger than the 50 age mark. Nope, I refuse to even acknowledge the whole "old fellas" concept.

Again I'm not referring to the original footage or EP4. I'm saying Lucasfilm should have rendered new CG content showing a more spectacular duel. Sure keep some of the original footage, but add in all new stuff and make it hella awesome.

I guess we'll have to wait for the next time GL releases the SW anthology.

Mace MacLeod 05-31-2007 05:18 PM

And hey, while we're at it, why not have ninjas drop down from the ceiling during suspenseful moments? Or maybe the AT-ATs can become transformers and do sort of a Gundam Seed thing where they suddenly morph into jet fighters? Chewbacca=Karaoke master! Yeah!

Titanius Anglesmith 06-01-2007 02:24 AM

"Why didn't they re-make it?", you ask? Because it wouldn't be the original trilogy anymore. If you ask me, that particular fight is more realistic than if they had run on the walls, flipped around, or swung from the ceiling.

Sam! 06-01-2007 04:39 AM

EagerWeasel is correct. When ep 4 came out, it was the first movie with special effects like that. And quite frankly, it would be taking away the memories of everything. Understood?

jedispy 06-01-2007 11:36 AM

I respect your opinions, but I disagree. The whole point of the special edition is to make things better than before. That's why there were all sort of changes that were made in the first SE, and even more in the second SE (DVD release). I for one enjoy 100% of the changes and feel that Star Wars has gotten better because of them.

If you want the original way things were, then go buy the non-special edition DVD and have way at it.

All I'm saying is that I think it would have been better if they'd have made it a little flashier. The didn't need to do any thing too extreme, but it would have been nice to have a little more climactic conclusion.

PoiuyWired 06-01-2007 06:50 PM

HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST... HAN SHOOTS FIRST...

I mean, some changes are nothing but eye candy as we know it. Others are added for the sake of making changes. "Wesa Freeeee!" But yes some does integrade nicely into the story, and actually improves on it.

I am ok with SE mostly, but won't call it "necessary" or excellent as some might claim. I mean, they don't even succeed in fixing all scenes when it comes to the fading saber colors.

jedispy 06-02-2007 02:17 AM

Im' actually o.k. with just about all the SE changes. There's only one thing that makes me stabby stabby angry. It's the @#$% chirping noise that rapes my ears during the TIE fighter attack in ANH (when the M Falcon is leaving the Death Star). The noise makes me want to kill someone with the fist of an angry God.

Otherwise I'm fine with most of the changes. Han shooting second....meh I don't really care. I actually like all of the changes that they made in the DVD release. The Ian McDiarmad <sp?> Imperial holo projection is far better than the original one (the one there the Emperor had monkey eyes...no really they gave him monkey eyes). The dialogue is also MUCH better in that scene. Also the Hayden Christiansen ghost is far better than the old Sebastian Shaw ghost. Of course I understood that the Shaw ghost was supposed to be Anakin Skywalker, but there were a lot of people what wanted to know who he was.

If only they'd have jazzed up the ANH saber duel, even just a little bit, using CG I think it would have been much better.

Quanon 06-03-2007 07:28 PM

Don't worry ; Star Wars will have his big remake .
Every "good" old super has been remade ; look at King Kong ; Godzilla and a whole other bunch .

You'll see in 20 years they'll redo the whole saga ; from ep1 to ep6 .
Hopefullt GL is to old to intervene to much or doesn't state in his will that nothing may be changed to the Star Wars legacy .

Just be patient : you'll have your nice nice saber fight in time :p

Mace MacLeod 06-03-2007 09:10 PM

Why even bother retouching the old ones, then? Just make three or six or nine new movies that do all those things.

The original trilogy movies are classics for a reason. If you meddle with them too much, you take away from what made them so successful in the first place. I don't even like the updated versions; dammit George, you're supposed to think of thay stuff before you release the movies. The problem now is: If you're going to retouch and remake movies to fall in line with these new (crappier) movies, where do you stop? Where is that magical point that you reach that says "finished product" on the can?

jedispy 06-03-2007 09:30 PM

I'd put my opinion in here, but Mace MacLeod would probably have a problem with it and make another remark that is witty and will uplift out souls for all eternity

UNSUBSCRIBED

Quanon 06-04-2007 11:28 AM

If they would ever redo it all ;

1) A nice professional writers team would redo most of the scripting

2) A whole other bunch of directors ; No George at the set to mess things up

Besides : I just wanted to say that most classic movies get a big redo once in a while . So I expect Star Wars to be reborn in about a 40<->100 years from now .

That's all ; don't get so beefed up . I love the orginals very much and I wished that the newest triologie wasn't that messed up .

Titanius Anglesmith 06-04-2007 12:00 PM

jedispy, you did make this thread to hear people's opinions, didn't you? If you don't like what MM had to say, then maybe you should have put in your original post not to disagree with you, or you'd get angry. God forbid we all have our own opinions.

I happen to agree with him as well. I liked a couple changes, like switching Clive Revill with Ian McDiarmid and the new song at the end of Episode VI. Everything else was silly and pointless, and making even more changes would make it even worse.

Gargoyle King 06-06-2007 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedispy
I tell you one thing that disappointed me in regard to the DVD release of the original trilogy. I wish Lucasfilm would have suped up the EP4 lightsaber scene in the DVD release. Instead they just used the same old original footage. That duel is kind of a let down if you watch the movies in chronological order. Furthermore if you play through the EP3 game for PS2/XBox, you can unlock that duel (Vader vs. Kenobi on Death Star 1). THAT is how the duel should have gone.

I'd have loved to see Vader and Kenobi doing flips and stuff. Don't give me that "but they were old" stuff either. We now know that Kenobi was in his late 50s, and Anakin/Vader was in his 40s. That's not that old. Add in the Force component and they ought to be able to do some cool stuff. Let us also not forget to mention that Darth Vader had cybernetic implants. Look at the 6 million dollar man, or the bionic woman. Vader should have been able to crazy awesome stunts even without the Force.

Look at Yoda. He was 800+ years old by the time of EP2 & EP3. He was doing crazy mad moves guided by the Force. Look at Darth Sidious in EP3. When dueling Mace Windu he was doing cool acrobatic moves too. I'd figure he's no younger than the 50 age mark. Nope, I refuse to even acknowledge the whole "old fellas" concept.

Again I'm not referring to the original footage or EP4. I'm saying Lucasfilm should have rendered new CG content showing a more spectacular duel. Sure keep some of the original footage, but add in all new stuff and make it hella awesome.

I guess we'll have to wait for the next time GL releases the SW anthology.


Tsshhh.... Some people will not be happy! Be grateful GL released the original trilogy remastered on DVD!

CLONECOMMANDER501 06-06-2007 05:34 PM

I hate that he did it!





spoiler:

joke :D

aner21 06-09-2007 04:43 PM

I found most of the changes were not very important. They don't contribute to the movies in any way. The only ones I have a hard time "digesting" :mad2: when I see them is that Han/Jabba dialog (I hate the way Jabba looks), the weesa free thing and that Anakin force ghost in the end. The actor's face has a really weird/psichotic/sexual offender look to it. :tsk: It's not a very reallistic LS face IMHO.

Gug Eyewalker 08-01-2007 01:19 PM

Well, I suppose it COULD be done by using stuntment with flashy choreography and with digital technology these days you can transpsoe their faces onto the stuntmen.

I can see Vader jump/gliding a bit, but the idea of him doing a lot of flashy flips seems really otulandish, same for the old obiwan.

I liked the orignal Ruup Rup! song at the end of ep 6, and Anakin should have aged, Hayden Christiansen was a wierd choice, but oh well!


There will likely be more star wars movies someday, either set way after or way before the original series.

Nancy Allen`` 08-03-2007 11:25 PM

Vader wasn't just old, he was a cripple that even with all that cybernetic armor he couldn't do the things he could anymore. Thus he had to rely on power and skill. As for Obi Wan, maybe Aldaraan hurt him more than he let on. Or maybe they held back against each other.

Henz 08-04-2007 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
Vader wasn't just old, he was a cripple that even with all that cybernetic armor he couldn't do the things he could anymore. Thus he had to rely on power and skill.

Yeah cause Greivous hobbled about everywhere...

I'd love a touched up Ep IV lightsaber fight. They can fix the shoddy blade colours while they're at it too. It doesn't help that the order the films were made in means the most technologically advanced leads into... well... halloween costumes and glow sticks.

Nancy Allen`` 08-04-2007 09:21 PM

I would say that the diffirence between Vader and Greivous is that even with being rebuilt in that suit Vader had to rely on himself, his human self, and possibly the force to be able to get about. If Vader was in his prime, as Anakin, he would have beaten Luke no problem.

There's another possibility. Vader isn't a monster, at least compared to Palpatine, Tarkin, ect, he's still grieving over Padme (a comic shows the inside of his meditation chamber we see in ESB). And stopping Luke from killing Palpatine, defending the Emperor or preventing his son from falling to the dark side? Maybe, just maybe, Vader drags his ass in doing the Empire's dirty work, maybe more so in a situation such as facing his old master.

Kurgan 08-08-2007 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargoyle_King
Tsshhh.... Some people will not be happy! Be grateful GL released the original trilogy remastered on DVD!

If by "remastered" you mean, "13 year old Laserdisc tape masters copied to DVD in non-anamorphic letterbox" then yeah... I guess we should be grateful!


I'm glad they exist at all, after Lucas' repeated denials that they'd ever see the light of day, but that doesn't mean I still can't complain because of the poor treatment they've gotten. This is 2007, not 1997! DVD has standards...


Anyway, watch the Prequels last, as they were meant to be seen. Don't judge the first movie by the special effects standards of 28 years later...

The original Star Wars is a delightful adventure story, charming fantasy, and fun sci fi romp. There's no need to keep touching it up.

I agree with some others though, I'd much rather that Lucas just release a nice pristine restoration of the original 1977 theatrical movie (with the three original soundtracks preserved in excellent quality) in anamorphic widescreen, and then he can do whatever he wants.

I'd also say I'd much rather he just remake the movie from scratch than continually chip away at a masterpiece and classic film by adding more CG crap, tinkering with the colors and altering stuff in it every few years for a quick cash-in.

If it came to seeing it in the theater again, I'd much rather see the original cleaned up and restored properly, than the ugly, botched 2004 edition. :P

hellhawk 08-08-2007 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
And hey, while we're at it, why not have ninjas drop down from the ceiling during suspenseful moments? Or maybe the AT-ATs can become transformers and do sort of a Gundam Seed thing where they suddenly morph into jet fighters? Chewbacca=Karaoke master! Yeah!


omg lol perfect spoof! and while where at it the death star should shoot out cats

TripHammer 08-15-2007 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurgan
DVD has standards...

Anyway, watch the Prequels last, as they were meant to be seen. Don't judge the first movie by the special effects standards of 28 years later...

The original Star Wars is a delightful adventure story, charming fantasy, and fun sci fi romp. There's no need to keep touching it up.

I agree. You can't judge a movie made back then to today's standards/technology.

If you're going to release a DVD though, I expect it to be spruced up beyond the original.. extra footage.. interviews.. blah blah blah. I have the first videos released of the movie... if I feel nostalgic.. I'll pop them in. Otherwise.. I prefer the DVD...

Nancy Allen`` 08-15-2007 06:28 PM

Speaking of which I was disappointed that Dirty Harry didn't use a Desert Eagle, Sean Commery didn't drive the Vanquish and it wasn't the Bush scandal that was investigated in All the President's Men.

The Source 08-19-2007 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
Speaking of which I was disappointed that Dirty Harry didn't use a Desert Eagle, Sean Commery didn't drive the Vanquish and it wasn't the Bush scandal that was investigated in All the President's Men.

Lol... And the movie "Ten Commandments" doesn't have computer generated graphics.. God would have rocked.

Sir Phobos 08-25-2007 03:23 PM

I'm watching it right now and I'm not disappointed, too much 'suping' would be a bad thing IMO.

TripHammer 08-26-2007 09:33 AM

I was also disapointed that Dirty Harry didn't use the Desert Eagle... O.o

I'm not saying edit the movie itself in a DVD release. I can't even stand colorizing b/w movies.. or even some war footage documentaries I've seen where they colorize some of the footage. The color is never right. Movies should be as they were originally released.

But if you're going to release a DVD... there's soooo much room on them... as a consumer.. I expect a bit more than just the movie. Deleted scenes, the making of, cast interviews, "info" screens, etc. ...even bloopers!

If you're going to pour money into remaking a movie.. why not just make another chapter in the series? I think it would be well received and would preserve the "art" of the original movies. You don't have a case similar to where the "art" of Miracle on 34th St was compromised when they colorized it.

Nancy Allen`` 08-27-2007 08:34 AM

If you're talking DVD content then sure put everything you can think of in there. Deleted scenes, games, something cool where you can go about the Jedi Temple and talk with the people there, if they went beyond the call of duty in filming this sort of stuff and having all this cool stuff it'd make us want to buy the DVDs for sure.

On Vader, I read in another thread how he adopted a more defensive style of fighting, both out of necessity but so that he doesn't give into his anger, which might have made him 7331 but very nearly consumed him.

K_Kinnison 09-02-2007 02:03 AM

The fight scenes are different because there were different stunt coordinators. In EP IV we see a classic Kendo style duel. Very clean and percise movements with very little flash.

In the Prequal movies we see more of a flashy Chinese style with frivolous flips twirls and blade spinning that look good on film, but are hardly realistic.

BigMike322 09-08-2007 12:29 PM

The whole point of an original version of a film being released is so to keep it the original version. I hated Greedo shooting first.

JoeDoe 2.0 09-08-2007 12:32 PM

But still he made a nice gooey mess

BigMike322 09-08-2007 01:04 PM

Yes he did.

Rogue Warrior 09-18-2007 05:23 AM

I guess the big question is whether or not you could do better with thirty year old technology. If you can then step up.

BigMike322 09-27-2007 08:28 PM

Classic movies are classic for a reason. If you want to remake one, then fine. However leave the original version in print as well.

JoeDoe 2.0 09-27-2007 08:41 PM

But remake them only if they need to, don't ruin a good classic movie by making a crappy new version of it.

BigMike322 09-27-2007 09:01 PM

I agree with that. Personally I don't care as long as the original stays in print.

GwannaSauna 10-14-2008 01:49 AM

lol, I saw a YouTube vid where a guy had the exact same problem and to solve it he crappily sped it up. Looked horrible as hell, haha, but I don't know the link search it up yourself:)

Henz 10-18-2008 04:53 PM

The Star Wars trilogy is damn near timeless. I think the only bit of the films that looks bad (that's bad, not dated) is the Episode 4 Lightsaber fight. Why Lucas will "fix" so many other things and not this is beyond me tbh.

Zwier Zak 11-19-2008 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedispy (Post 2321058)
That duel is kind of a let down if you watch the movies in chronological order.

There is nothing wrong with that duel. It's episodes I;II & III that need to be made all over. With real actors and good stories... heh dreams...

spartan181 06-05-2010 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedispy (Post 2321058)
I'd have loved to see Vader and Kenobi doing flips and stuff. Don't give me that "but they were old" stuff either. We now know that Kenobi was in his late 50s, and Anakin/Vader was in his 40s. That's not that old. Add in the Force component and they ought to be able to do some cool stuff. Let us also not forget to mention that Darth Vader had cybernetic implants. Look at the 6 million dollar man, or the bionic woman. Vader should have been able to crazy awesome stunts even without the Force.

Look at Yoda. He was 800+ years old by the time of EP2 & EP3. He was doing crazy mad moves guided by the Force. Look at Darth Sidious in EP3. When dueling Mace Windu he was doing cool acrobatic moves too. I'd figure he's no younger than the 50 age mark. Nope, I refuse to even acknowledge the whole "old fellas" concept.

Again I'm not referring to the original footage or EP4. I'm saying Lucasfilm should have rendered new CG content showing a more spectacular duel. Sure keep some of the original footage, but add in all new stuff and make it hella awesome.

I guess we'll have to wait for the next time GL releases the SW anthology.

I disagree, the duel was stuck in the minds of people forever who saw it when it was originally in theaters and they would get just as upset as the replacing of old Anakin with young Anakin in ROTJ or re-dubbing Boba Fett's voice.

Alexrd 06-05-2010 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartan181 (Post 2729179)
I disagree, the duel was stuck in the minds of people forever who saw it when it was originally in theaters and they would get just as upset as the replacing of old Anakin with young Anakin in ROTJ or re-dubbing Boba Fett's voice.

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