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-   -   DX10 for KotOR 3? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=181034)

Negative Sun 08-02-2007 07:02 PM

DX10 for KotOR 3?
 
I wasn't quite sure where to put this poll, so a mod can feel free to relocate it if must be...

I think K3 will be DX10, especially now that we've waited so long already for news of it, if it's getting made I think it deserves a next gen engine and all that, maybe make use of Euphoria and DMM and such.

Discuss...

SykoRevan 08-02-2007 09:07 PM

Well, for a RPG game like the KotOR series, engines like Euphoria and Digital Molecular Matter don't seem necessary since extreme interaction with the environment doesn't generally happen. Although I do agree that it definitely needs a next-gen look to it. Anything less will just be ridiculous in this day and age, with everything coming into the next-gen.

darthcarth 08-02-2007 09:26 PM

Sure having be a option is fine but making it require will doom its self.

Jae Onasi 08-02-2007 09:43 PM

This could work in either forum but seems to fit a little better in The Unknown Regions so I moved it here. Carry on! :)

I think it'd be cool to have DX10 options for sure.

Master Zionosis 08-02-2007 09:47 PM

I vote yes, I really want to see KotOR in amazing graphics. :D

Char Ell 08-02-2007 10:02 PM

I think KotOR 3 would be great with DirectX 10 but I don't want to upgrade to Windows Vista until I'm ready. As long as DX 10 KotOR 3 doesn't come out until after I've upgraded to Vista then I'll be fine. If not then that would put me in a bit of a pickle, wouldn't it? :D

Of course at the rate KotOR 3 appears to be going the next version of Windows may well be in public release before KotOR 3 ever makes it to store shelves. :cry6:

Master Zionosis 08-02-2007 10:13 PM

Maybe I slightly misunderstood the question you posted, what I meant to say was I don't actually want to see KotOR III running with Direct X 10 as DirectX 10 is Vista only, and there is no way I'm getting vista, (in two words "ERROR CENTRAL"), what I meant was I'd like to see KotOR III running on a newer version of Direct X that runs on windows and is equal in graphical display.

Janan Pacha 08-03-2007 12:50 AM

I can't agree, I'd be just as happy if it was made with the exact same engine and look as the previous two KotOR games (With minor modifications and enhancements to the graphical aspects). Especially since that would make the modification of the game all the easier to add in the little touches that are usually fun to add in. :)

I just can't jump on bored the "It's gotta look better!!!! Pretty!!!!" band wagon. The previosu two games looked just fine. I don't need my games to look better or more realistic.

EDIT: I definitly don't want it to be a games for windows game. I don't want it to be a DX10 game. I don't ever Ever EVER want to have to even think of touching Vista. I want it to have nothing to do with the live service. I want nothing remotely connected to any of that MESS.

Anything that's a vista exclusive I steer away from like a plague.

Negative Sun 08-03-2007 06:50 AM

Yeah the question is: Do you think it will happen? Not: Do you want it to happen?

There's nothing wrong with Vista IMO, most of the people who have actually used it don't really find anything wrong with it, in fact they praise it!

DX9 has been around for aaages now, and it runs both K1 and K2, so I think it's time to move forward, the gaming industry isn't exactly known for standing still, we have to move on to better things, even if that means using DX10...

igyman 08-03-2007 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negative Sun
There's nothing wrong with Vista IMO, most of the people who have actually used it don't really find anything wrong with it, in fact they praise it!

That's not what I heard.

As for DX 10... Sure, if it'll work on Windows XP. I'm not touching Vista, no matter how pretty it looks, until I really really have to.

Negative Sun 08-03-2007 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igyman
That's not what I heard.

I don't want to go into too much depth here, but who have you spoken to about it? People who know what they're talking about or a bunch of noobs who decided to buy a new system with Vista preloaded not knowing that they got done for cause their system is too sucky to run Vista? And they want to run stuff on it that isn't compatible with Vista yet because the right drivers aren't out yet for it (which is the manufacturer/developer's faul, not Vista or MS)

igyman 08-03-2007 08:28 AM

Mostly people who know what they're talking about and I've also read some reviews. None of them were favorable. Then again, looking back similar stuff has been said for XP, so I guess that after a few service packs Vista will be a lot better.

Master Zionosis 08-03-2007 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negative Sun
There's nothing wrong with Vista IMO, most of the people who have actually used it don't really find anything wrong with it, in fact they praise it!

That's an overstatement, I've talked to many people who have used Vista asking if it is worth getting and every single person who I asked had switched back to windows, they said don't bother there is so many bugs and it runs practically like ****.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negative Sun
I don't want to go into too much depth here, but who have you spoken to about it? People who know what they're talking about or a bunch of noobs who decided to buy a new system with Vista preloaded not knowing that they got done for cause their system is too sucky to run Vista? And they want to run stuff on it that isn't compatible with Vista yet because the right drivers aren't out yet for it (which is the manufacturer/developer's faul, not Vista or MS)

Actually my dad is in the computer industry, not only that he travels around the world fixing high grade machines running all sorts of operating systems, Windows, Linux and Vista, and he has told me personally not to go anywhere near Vista, it's more trouble than it's worth, so when it comes to computers and their operating systems I'm hardly ever wrong, as most of my info on them comes from my dad, and he has no reason to lie about it, what's the point.

Jaypee 08-03-2007 09:58 AM

If a new game comes out and DOESN'T support DX10 they are living in the past...the future is DX10...Vista is fine, i run it and being an Software Engineer, i can say i know my way around a computer, the main issue with Vista include the fact that its a new system and nubs need to learn it before they complain. Sure it has its bugs, which need to be fix. Have i been frustrated with it? hell yea, but same goes for XP at times. People are afraid of the unknown..and right now the Unknown=Vista.

Back on topic....havent you ever looked at game trailers of new shiny DX10 games and wondered...wow wouldn't Coruscant be killer with these graphics, wouldn't the lakes of Naboo or the plains of Dantooine look jawdropping and make you forget your actually at your computer and instead at those places...thats what the "pretty graphics are for...to make you totally engulfed in the landscape and universe you are playing in.

Master Zionosis 08-03-2007 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaypee
If a new game comes out and DOESN'T support DX10 they are living in the past...the future is DX10...Vista is fine, i run it and being an Software Engineer, i can say i know my way around a computer, the main issue with Vista include the fact that its a new system and nubs need to learn it before they complain. Sure it has its bugs, which need to be fix. Have i been frustrated with it? hell yea, but same goes for XP at times. People are afraid of the unknown..and right now the Unknown=Vista.

Back on topic....havent you ever looked at game trailers of new shiny DX10 games and wondered...wow wouldn't Coruscant be killer with these graphics, wouldn't the lakes of Naboo or the plains of Dantooine look jawdropping and make you forget your actually at your computer and instead at those places...thats what the "pretty graphics are for...to make you totally engulfed in the landscape and universe you are playing in.

But aren't you forgetting about all the people who don't use Vista for the obvious reason I have stated, by the time KotOR is released they will probably be running on a newer version of DirectX anyway, that will run on windows, because there is absolutely no way I'm going anywhere near Vista, it will be like stepping into hell.

Negative Sun 08-03-2007 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Zionosis
That's an overstatement, I've talked to many people who have used Vista asking if it is worth getting and every single person who I asked had switched back to windows, they said don't bother there is so many bugs and it runs practically like ****.

Who are these people? Are they all extremely knowledgeable about computers? Because if that was the case I think they would've thought twice about switching to Vista and done their research first maybe?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Zionosis
Actually my dad is in the computer industry, not only that he travels around the world fixing high grade machines running all sorts of operating systems, Windows, Linux and Vista, and he has told me personally not to go anywhere near Vista, it's more trouble than it's worth, so when it comes to computers and their operating systems I'm hardly ever wrong, as most of my info on them comes from my dad, and he has no reason to lie about it, what's the point.

That's your dad's opinion, I'm sure I can find someone who can list you dozens and dozens of benefits Vista has over XP (they might even be closer than you think ;))
Saying "You're hardly ever wrong" strikes me as an overstatement as it isn't you who is knowledgeable about it, but your dad, furthermore it is just his opinion as I have illustrated above, so it is hardly infallible...I'd rather stick with facts instead of rumors, opinions or gossip if you don't mind ;)

I would suggest you check out this thread as we are getting a bit off topic here, point is, unless you can tell first hand of your experience with Vista or DX10, you can't have a personal opinion about it and you most certainly can't portray it as being ****

I suggest we leave it here, before a mod decides to clean up this mess and gets cranky with us, if you want to discuss it further, check the thread I posted above or PM me ;)



Back on topic:
It would be cool to see the kind of next gen interaction as I've seen in the previews of Mass Effect, the ability to interrupt someone when they're speaking in particular would give great depth to a KotOR game IMO.

Prime 08-03-2007 10:45 AM

Back on topic, lads. DX10 and K3. There is another thread about Vista in Alto... :)

Master Zionosis 08-03-2007 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negative Sun
Who are these people? Are they all extremely knowledgeable about computers? Because if that was the case I think they would've thought twice about switching to Vista and done their research first maybe?




That's your dad's opinion, I'm sure I can find someone who can list you dozens and dozens of benefits Vista has over XP (they might even be closer than you think ;))
Saying "You're hardly ever wrong" strikes me as an overstatement as it isn't you who is knowledgeable about it, but your dad, furthermore it is just his opinion as I have illustrated above, so it is hardly infallible...I'd rather stick with facts instead of rumors, opinions or gossip if you don't mind ;)

I would suggest you check out this thread as we are getting a bit off topic here, point is, unless you can tell first hand of your experience with Vista or DX10, you can't have a personal opinion about it and you most certainly can't portray it as being ****

I suggest we leave it here, before a mod decides to clean up this mess and gets cranky with us, if you want to discuss it further, check the thread I posted above or PM me ;)



Back on topic:
It would be cool to see the kind of next gen interaction as I've seen in the previews of Mass Effect, the ability to interrupt someone when they're speaking in particular would give great depth to a KotOR game IMO.

As you say your entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, but I would like to point out that I am sticking to fact not rumour or gossip, as I said my dad is family he has experienced Vista first hand and has told me about it, I would hardly call that 'rumour' or 'gossip'.

90SK 08-03-2007 04:24 PM

Well...I only voted yes because I already have Vista, so it doesn't matter either way (for the record, Vista hasn't given me any problems).

Negative Sun 08-03-2007 04:43 PM

lolz just close this thread it's obvious we don't speak English around here...

stoffe 08-03-2007 05:27 PM

Depends on when the game is released. If it's within roughly a year's time to a year and a half or so I doubt it would be a DX10-only game. To do so would be to limit their customer base of potential buyers too much, which is already fairly narrow within the RPG genre. Most non-hardcore gamers won't have Win Vista and a DX10-enabled graphics card within this time frame.

The impression I get when browsing game and help forums is that a fair number of KOTOR player don't have anywhere near a gamer computer. Sometimes it can be more economically sound not to just aim for the topmost layer of hardcore power gamers as a customer segment by making games that squeeze every last drop of power out of a high-end computer system to run decently. :)

tk102 08-03-2007 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffe
Sometimes it can be more economically sound not to just aim for the topmost layer of hardcore power gamers as a customer segment by making games that squeeze every last drop of power out of a high-end computer system to run decently. :)

If I ran Microsoft, I'd consider offering monetary incentives towards game companies to make DX10 games. I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this. A quick Google search proved that...

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/02...ames/index.php
Quote:

Microsoft is also working closely with game developers to train them in DirectX 10, though it is stopping short of offering financial incentives to move to the new platform....
The article closes with this (dated Feb 12, 2007)
Quote:

DirectX 10 is a different way of programming. Its harder, Nvidias Vivoli said. I think it will take 12 to 18 months before we start to see all of the gaming titles coming out on DirectX 10.

Ctrl Alt Del 08-04-2007 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffe
The impression I get when browsing game and help forums is that a fair number of KOTOR player don't have anywhere near a gamer computer. Sometimes it can be more economically sound not to just aim for the topmost layer of hardcore power gamers as a customer segment by making games that squeeze every last drop of power out of a high-end computer system to run decently. :)

Especially for a kind of game that don't require that at all. But by the time, I think it'll have DX10 options, all right.

marvidchano 08-06-2007 02:09 PM

yeah, I wouldn't mind it running on DX10

Emperor Devon 08-07-2007 05:27 AM

No. I'd rather upgrade to Vista of my own free will, rather than be forced encouraged :: to upgrade to it by having a game Microsoft knows I and many other fans would love impossible to play without purchasing their other products. Such marketing practices are extremely selfish, uncaring of the customer and I want no part in supporting a company that chooses to practice them and wants to exploit me for more money at every turn. (This same rant can also be applied to the idea of making KotOR III console-exclusive, but that's another topic.)

I'd still prefer the old engine with some upgrades in any event, as the community has already learned how to mod it and that would feel more in line with the other two games if it did. As it would also save money and time that would be funneled into giving everything an ambient glow, it could be given towards the storyline department or at least result in an earlier release date.

Astrotoy7 08-07-2007 10:54 AM

Im a happy vista user and quite excited about DX10, but I dont think it would be integral to KOTOR 3. Sure, you could have it DX10 optimised, but still play happily on XP rather than be a DX10/Vista only title(like alan wake for example)

I dont think LucasArts would be that silly ;) Gamers with high end kit generally *arent* RPGers. Ive definitely never seen a NWN PvP in all teh Lans Ive been too :D

Thus, there should be an option, "DX 10 optimised, but XP compatible" in your poll....

mtfbwya

Negative Sun 08-07-2007 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
Thus, there should be an option, "DX 10 optimised, but XP compatible" in your poll....

Good point, I didn't think that was possible though...

darthcarth 08-07-2007 09:54 PM

It is what do you think they are doing with crysis you dont expect them to just make it dx 10 and lose 98% of the gamer community? (in a poll only 1. something of gamers had a dx 10 capable card, of course this could have changed in a half a year but still not alot of people have dx 10 cards)

JediMasterJambi 08-09-2007 09:12 PM

I hope not.
I have to agree with Janan Pacha and Astrotoy7 said. This is an RPG.
It dosn't need AWSOME graphics, and I think LA understands that.
I mean...hell...I STILL find myself REBEATING Chrono Trigger every 2-4 years. :D

adamqd 08-10-2007 03:50 AM

I agree that, KOTOR must be an RPG in the sense that the first 2 were, however, I don't get the logic that better graphics or an animation overhaul would equal to it not being an RPG. obviously if the Dev turned round and said it's either animation or game play, then it's game play all the way, but, things have come on a bit since 2004.
I don't see why any aspect of the game has to be sacrificed.

Quote:

and I think LA understands that.
I don't think LA understand anything, because they haven't made K3 yet! :)

Sabretooth 08-10-2007 11:48 AM

Sure, I don't mind DX10. Come to think of it, there are hardly any DX10 games announced right now and KotOR doesn't look anywhere nearby. If we be a bit realistic, we learn that it can be announced next or the next-to-next year (at least). Therefore, by then, DX10 games would become the norm (atleast in announcements), and so we have a DX10KOTOR ready.

JediMasterJambi 08-10-2007 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd
I don't get the logic that better graphics or an animation overhaul would equal to it not being an RPG.

Eh..I was just saying that graphics or animation overhauls aren't needed in RPGs as much as they are in other games. I would perfer they spend more time on storyline and diversity.


Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd
I don't think LA understand anything, because they haven't made K3 yet! :)

I agree ^.^

Negative Sun 08-11-2007 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Sure, I don't mind DX10. Come to think of it, there are hardly any DX10 games announced right now and KotOR doesn't look anywhere nearby. If we be a bit realistic, we learn that it can be announced next or the next-to-next year (at least). Therefore, by then, DX10 games would become the norm (atleast in announcements), and so we have a DX10KOTOR ready.

Good point there...

Arcesious 08-13-2007 04:25 PM

Well... sure, i'd liek better graphics, but my computer is old, and although it can handle Kotor II at highest graphics possible sinc eit is 200% overqulaified for running it, a new game with graphics meant for a new computer would kinda mess it up. Besides- people who can't afford a new computer or get an xbox 360 probably won't buy this game if that's what it requires. if you implement better grapghics into this game- i want an option that uses the old graphics, and an auto-detect thing for when you first strat the game, that will figure out if you can run the gma ewith the new next-gen graphics or not. if not, it will run the older grapghics, but you can change that setting if you want.
I have computer with a Nvidia GEforce 6200 card in it, and it overall has a little over 1 Gig of Video Ram. My computer is actually almost 6 years old, it will be once it's 2008 , as it an old Windwos XP on an Emachines computer system, and it has had upgrades that make it about 6 times better than it normally would be.

So please make this game able to run well for those of us who use old Computers and Xbox's. That's all i suggest. any programmers readign this- I seriously suggest you consider this, as you should know doing this will result in mroe sales and more profit.

Cygnus Q'ol 08-13-2007 05:01 PM

What's the diff?

By the time LA decides to do it (or have someone else do it), it'll probably be console exclusive to start anyway.

I hope it's BioWare and I hope it's featured on the gen-after-next, X-Box720.

Arcesious 08-13-2007 08:41 PM

They cna make it for Xbox 720 too if they want- but ther eis the fact that the 720 hasn't even been started to be made yet...
If they make this gam eavialble for use an multiple different gaming systems, they'll get a huge profit off of the game, as making it usable by almost everyone will give them at least 150% more sales than the last two Kotor games.

damian622 08-20-2007 12:07 PM

It probably will have. I just hope that Obsidian won't make Razor 1911 more work [if you don't know, they made some Need DX10/Vista games (Shadowrun and Halo2) to work under DX9/WinXP].

If they do, I will have only Fallout 3 to play in. Hmmm... That isn't so bad, when I think more about it.

Gargoyle King 08-30-2007 12:42 PM

K3 Doesn't need to be a next-gen (i.e. HD) game IMO. I think this because a lot of people will not be able to play it because Vista ain't exactly cheap (well for me it isn't anyway) and if they are like me they won't want to upgrade for one game (albeit a very tempting game). HD graphics are all well and good but i'd rather the game had amazing gameplay above amazing graphics. In short, i think the developers of K3 would better benefite over the current system specs of which TSL and K1 were able to run off; HD is here yes but IMO it would be a mistake for the PC field of the gaming industry to move towards this format too quickly.

RyuuKage 10-22-2007 04:17 PM

Probably. But i don't care so long as it's compatible with 9.0c, because i'm not switching to Vista even for KotOR III....well...maybe....

MJ-W4 11-21-2007 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffe
Depends on when the game is released. If it's within roughly a year's time to a year and a half or so I doubt it would be a DX10-only game. To do so would be to limit their customer base of potential buyers too much, which is already fairly narrow within the RPG genre. Most non-hardcore gamers won't have Win Vista and a DX10-enabled graphics card within this time frame.

The impression I get when browsing game and help forums is that a fair number of KOTOR player don't have anywhere near a gamer computer. Sometimes it can be more economically sound not to just aim for the topmost layer of hardcore power gamers as a customer segment by making games that squeeze every last drop of power out of a high-end computer system to run decently. :)

If you look in my profile, you'll see that I've seen windows come, and I'll probably see it go, too. I agree with you that most KotOR players I personally know are nowhere near vista. A vista only game might indeed be a commercial failure. A point I'd like to add is that a general overhaul of the existing engine takes less time and money and comes with far less bugs than a brand new engine for a new, far more complex system. I fear a new engine for a prospective K3 would lead to even more cut content than K2 already has. Oh yes and bugs. Did I mention bugs? I have, haven't I?

--edited for typo


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