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-   -   How Powerful was Revan (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=183256)

kingoftheabyss 10-26-2007 11:01 PM

How Powerful was Revan
 
Revan has always been my favirote character in Star Wars and I've always stuck to my belief that he was one of the most powerfull Force Users in Star Wars history.


Im curious as too how other people view Revan's Force Power/Potential.

I've always considered him to be about as powerfull as Dath Vader...

Master Shake 10-26-2007 11:34 PM

Revan rules

nuff said

Char Ell 10-26-2007 11:39 PM

There is no doubt that Revan was quite powerful.

So who got Revan's midichlorian count? ;P

Jvstice 10-26-2007 11:58 PM

I always thought Revan was more powerful than average, but where he really shined was in knowing where his enemies' weaknesses and his own strengths were, and what would be required for long term victory. I think this left Revan sometimes blinded to short term, or much nearer dangers.

All in all, I thought the great strength of Revan was his mind and charisma.

Meowster 10-27-2007 12:23 AM

Revan? As Kreia says "Revan was power. Staring into his/her eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi s/he would slay etched on his/her soul." I don't think of Revan as...a brute in that way however, Malak was definately the wimpy Brute. I think of Revan as somewhat of a schemer...he/she was definately manipulative, and had great charisma, as Jvstice said. I do think Revan is somewhat overrated...I doubt Revan was 'the best' as most people believe.

Maybe 'one of the best'.

Emperor Devon 10-27-2007 12:27 AM

Probably fairly above average. I estimate two average squads of soldiers would be enough to take him.

Not that it particularly matters, I think the (non-cliched) parts of Revan's character are more interesting than his aptitude in combat.

Rev7 10-27-2007 12:34 AM

I agree ED. In all actuality Revan might be taken down by several squads of soldiers would be a pretty good estimate. One thing that I think a lot of people don't quite understand is that NO ONE is invincible.

Jediphile 10-27-2007 04:15 AM

Revan was more powerful than most, as per Kreia's comments, but that - of course - spoke only to his potential. Revan is much like Anakin in that regard, because it's unclear whether they ever reached their potential.

I don't see Revan as most powerful jedi ever, though he was probably one of the most gifted in his time, and maybe the one with the most potential. Revan was powerful, sure, but you can say the same about lots of jedi. The major difference between Revan and the others, however, is that Revan is YOUR character... And when people talk about how he (or the exile for that matter) are the greatest ever, I'm always uncertain about whether they are talking about the characters as part of the universe, or about them as extension of their own ill-hidden narcissistic fantasies. Not because I see people as particularly self-absorbed, but Revan does have the ability to pull that out more than most characters because he did have significant powers, but also due to his background. Ask yourself this - did you say to yourself "Wow, my character was the Dark Lord of the Sith" or did you say "Wow, I was the Dark Lord of the Sith"?

adamqd 10-27-2007 02:58 PM

well with Revan, you've got the story that is told throughout the 2 games from other peoples POV, and the possible outcomes of your save game, and theres not much other info on him apart from the odd summery like in the NEC. He definitely achieved power, but its hard to tell....
He doesn't compare to Sidious in force power or guile...
He was much wiser than Anakin, but nowhere near the force potential...
He's definitely top 10 of all time

Rev7 10-27-2007 03:08 PM

Top 10 indeed...

Sabretooth 10-28-2007 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Char Ell
So who got Revan's midichlorian count? ;P

Midichlorians were just a silly lie invented by Qui-Gon Jinn. Seriously, you think the Force is bound down by anything that sounds like 9th Grade Biology? :xp:

Titanius Anglesmith 10-28-2007 01:40 AM

Quite powerful? Sure.

One of the most powerful ever? Nope.

His actual Force abilities have never struck me as unique or more powerful than others. It's his tactics and personality that make him what he is.

Sephira 10-28-2007 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheabyss
Revan has always been my favirote character in Star Wars and I've always stuck to my belief that he was one of the most powerfull Force Users in Star Wars history.


Im curious as too how other people view Revan's Force Power/Potential.

I've always considered him to be about as powerfull as Dath Vader...

Revan is stronger than vader, slightly though.

He is definately top 10 or even top 5

Char Ell 10-28-2007 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Midichlorians were just a silly lie invented by Qui-Gon Jinn. Seriously, you think the Force is bound down by anything that sounds like 9th Grade Biology? :xp:

Silly Sabre. Mitochondrion and midichlorian aren't the same thing. :xp:

We must thank Master Qui-Gon for providing us with a way to quantify the Force power levels of renowned Force users like Revan and Darth Vader. ;)

Q 10-28-2007 03:32 PM

I must be the only one that rates Revan's power as close to that of Palpy or Yoda. You don't see this power in the game because he is in the process of relearning how to use it, but it's there.;)

Sephira 10-28-2007 11:19 PM

He is close to palpatine as of ROTS in terms of power but he is very far off from dark empire sidious.

In terms of greatness id say revan is number 2 or 3

Sabretooth 10-29-2007 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Char Ell
Silly Sabre. Mitochondrion and midichlorian aren't the same thing. :xp:

We must thank Master Qui-Gon for providing us with a way to quantify the Force power levels of renowned Force users like Revan and Darth Vader. ;)

Yeah, so us fanboys can go like "Yay, my fav sith lord has 5472 more midichlorians than yours omglol " :xp:

Ztalker 10-29-2007 07:23 AM

*put's on Scouter*

"Revan's midi-chlorian level...It's over NINE THOUSAAAAND!" :xp:

Those things don't mean a thing. Obi-Wan didn't have a particularry high count. He was even on the edge of being kicked out of the order when he was about to turn 13, right? He still pwned Anakin on Mustafar though.

imo, it's just an indication of potential. Like in soccer (or any other random sports). Scouts go to some exotic country, and see kids play soccer. One of the kids can already do all the moves from tv, has the condition of a running horse, and a professional way of thinking. In many ways, he could be a great soccer player.
On the other hand, there's the kid that can't do all the fancy moves. He isn't fast. But his tackles and brute mentallity DO stop the first mentioned kid. He has none of the skills the first kid has, but still manages.

And that's how it goes with that stupid Midi Chlorians as well. :)

Dang...I talk to much.


@Topic:
Revan is powerfull, okay. But I think he has maxed out his potential too. The Masters said he was interested in teaching when he was young. I think he just maxed out what he was destined to do. He was slightly stronger then Malak in his Sith time, and could just best him as Jedi.

Lance Monance 10-29-2007 08:59 AM

There is just no way to objectively "measure" Revan's power and compare it with other Jedi and Sith.

What we know is:
- Kotor and TSL convey Revan as an extraordinarily gifted individual.
- Revan is the individual with the greatest impact on the galaxy in the Kotor era

It's safe to assume Revan is very powerful.

Sephira 10-29-2007 10:56 AM

The thing is midi chlorians are real according to lucas, He also stated anakin had the highest potential and had the potential to be the most powerful force user ever due to his midi count but he didnt achieve that because of mustafar.

As for revans powers and feats, ill list them down if requested, In my opinion revan is either the 2nd most powerful sith lord behind sidious and on par with exar kun

Prime 10-29-2007 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephira
Revan is stronger than vader, slightly though.

Based on what?

Sephira 10-29-2007 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prime
Based on what?

Well the feats he accomplished, feeding on malachors dark side energies when it crushed kreia. Defeating malak when he was empowered on the star forge, note that malak was able to keep replenishing his energies and keep on fighting,

We also have the facts that the SF defences, droids and dark jedis were unable to stop him.

He also has vasts knowledge of the force surpassing an entire academys archives according to path of destruction.

For the force he is stronger than vader but in terms of pure lightsaber dueling abilities,id give it to vader in my opinion.

IN his holocron which bane studied also depicted him being able to create major force storms(weather) which can sort of cause massive damage over a certein area

adamqd 10-29-2007 01:17 PM

In reality, anyone who features in EP I-VI are faster, stronger, better, more Powerful etc than any EU character or EU version of a movie Character, Regardless of what they do or achieve, or appear to do or achieve... Thats the nature of G-canon vs C canon.

I'd roughly list the top 10 as...

Darth Sidious
Yoda
Luke Skywalker
Anakin/Vader
Revan
Jacen Solo
Mace Windu
Darth Tyranus
Malak
Obi-wan Kenobi

Obviously theres hundreds of Sith and Jedi, but a lot will be around the same level...

Darth Chronus 10-30-2007 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jediphile
And when people talk about how he (or the exile for that matter) are the greatest ever, I'm always uncertain about whether they are talking about the characters as part of the universe, or about them as extension of their own ill-hidden narcissistic fantasies.

That's the truth sadly.

If Revan was not your own character, and was just the Sith Lord that died by Malak's betrayal and nothing more, I'm quite sure most people would say about him ''he has cool robes but Malak is way more powerful''.

Sabretooth 10-30-2007 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephira
Well the feats he accomplished, feeding on malachors dark side energies when it crushed kreia. Defeating malak when he was empowered on the star forge, note that malak was able to keep replenishing his energies and keep on fighting,

We also have the facts that the SF defences, droids and dark jedis were unable to stop him.

He also has vasts knowledge of the force surpassing an entire academys archives according to path of destruction.

For the force he is stronger than vader but in terms of pure lightsaber dueling abilities,id give it to vader in my opinion.

IN his holocron which bane studied also depicted him being able to create major force storms(weather) which can sort of cause massive damage over a certein area

But the thing is, how is that a direct proof of him being stronger than Vader. Both were four thousand years apart, in completely different situations and completely different environments. Perhaps Vader would have been able to do everything Revan did, and better - or vice versa.

Sephira 10-31-2007 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretooth
But the thing is, how is that a direct proof of him being stronger than Vader. Both were four thousand years apart, in completely different situations and completely different environments. Perhaps Vader would have been able to do everything Revan did, and better - or vice versa.

Force wise, it was stated in path of destruction that revan had more knowledge of the force than an entire jedi archives, that speaks greatly for his power.

Im not argueing revan is superior to vader by miles, i am led to believe in terms of strength in the force, both are equals but when it comes to knowledge i believe revan has more

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd
In reality, anyone who features in EP I-VI are faster, stronger, better, more Powerful etc than any EU character or EU version of a movie Character, Regardless of what they do or achieve, or appear to do or achieve... Thats the nature of G-canon vs C canon.

Not a good way to put it, how is ROTJ luke a weakling at that time be stronger than his NJO incarnation who could pull star destroyer engines apart like nothing?
Doesn't make sense, The EU is also where we see vaders and sidious tremendous powers

Side note:
As for dueling speeds leland chee stated EU speeds do not contradict movie speeds at all

Jvstice 10-31-2007 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretooth
But the thing is, how is that a direct proof of him being stronger than Vader. Both were four thousand years apart, in completely different situations and completely different environments. Perhaps Vader would have been able to do everything Revan did, and better - or vice versa.

Exactly! That's why I never claimed that what Revan excelled in was power alone, but also the power of his mind. I believe everyone from his time's claims that he was powerful in teh force, but I think the thing to put more weight on is his charisma, forethought, and willingness to make sacrifices to achieve a goal.

adamqd 10-31-2007 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephira
Not a good way to put it, how is ROTJ luke a weakling at that time be stronger than his NJO incarnation who could pull star destroyer engines apart like nothing?
Doesn't make sense, The EU is also where we see vaders and sidious tremendous powers

Side note:
As for dueling speeds leland chee stated EU speeds do not contradict movie speeds at all

Maybe it was a bad way to put it, but what I mean still stands, EU is Fantasy within the fantasy, the Films come first...
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

Jvstice 11-01-2007 03:18 AM

Lucas himself revised the films, so which version do you claim is inerrant?

adamqd 11-01-2007 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvstice
Lucas himself revised the films, so which version do you claim is inerrant?

No, your not getting my point, I'm not talking about added film content or altered storyline's, I'm talking about how, in the comics, books and games, characters George Lucas has stated are not as powerful as Anakin, can far out do him in strength, speed, force use etc, and how we need to separate these characters and stories as secondary.
Don't get me wrong, I watch, read and play as much EU as I can get my hands on, but when Lucas says "Palpatine is the most powerful force user ever" and "Anakin would of been twice as powerful as the Emperor". you can't argue with that... Even though the books and what not seem to contradict this.

Jvstice 11-01-2007 12:48 PM

I always believe the story over the story teller when the story teller says something that is not actually part of the story they are telling when they contradict. Lucas made these things canon therefore events speak for themselves and things that do not occur as events are mere opinion.

adamqd 11-01-2007 12:58 PM

I think I get what your saying, and, you can believe what you want, and discount what you want, but your opinion doesn't change anything... there is more than just canon and non canon, George gives the writers and artist's license to deviate to a certain extent.... but how much deviation denotes what level of canon it is,
eg: The Force unleashed, the secret apprentice uses force powers far beyond anything seen in the films, and surely you agree that an apprentice can't be more powerful than Sidious? so we take that with a pinch of salt..
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

Sephira 11-01-2007 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd
Maybe it was a bad way to put it, but what I mean still stands, EU is Fantasy within the fantasy, the Films come first...
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

Not really, EU has their own grade of canon, and its canon status isnt renounced if it doesnt contradict the movies.

Its in the EU where we see characters at full power(njo luke being a god, sidious being the strongest sith, vader choking beings light years awar)


Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd
Don't get me wrong, I watch, read and play as much EU as I can get my hands on, but when Lucas says "Palpatine is the most powerful force user ever" and "Anakin would of been twice as powerful as the Emperor". you can't argue with that... Even though the books and what not seem to contradict this.

Nothing contradicts that, anakin as of ROTS has yet to reach his full potential so yes, there are others stronger than him as of ROTS

Sephira 11-01-2007 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd
I think I get what your saying, and, you can believe what you want, and discount what you want, but your opinion doesn't change anything... there is more than just canon and non canon, George gives the writers and artist's license to deviate to a certain extent.... but how much deviation denotes what level of canon it is,
eg: The Force unleashed, the secret apprentice uses force powers far beyond anything seen in the films, and surely you agree that an apprentice can't be more powerful than Sidious? so we take that with a pinch of salt..
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

Lol that was gameplay mechanics, so it isnt canon, In gameplay EAW sidious and vader can destroy buildings like nothing, crush military tanks the size of ATAT and effortlessly kill 100 rebel troopers

adamqd 11-01-2007 03:59 PM

Your completely missing my point, let me try something else... I think EU characters that are more powerful than the movie version contradict Lucas' vision of them, and because of these many discrepancies, books and comics etc are a lower canon level... You don't agree (about the contradiction)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon
we'll agree to disagree :)

Sephira 11-02-2007 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd
Your completely missing my point, let me try something else... I think EU characters that are more powerful than the movie version contradict Lucas' vision of them, and because of these many discrepancies, books and comics etc are a lower canon level... You don't agree (about the contradiction)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon
we'll agree to disagree :)

Leland chee states that the EU does not contradict the movies at all, hes a lucasarts employee and he is the one who reviews the EU and approve canon status

And theres nothing contradicting the movies at all, luke is not even a jedi in ROTJ and 40 years later he becomes the strongest jedi ever, theres no contradiction there

adamqd 11-02-2007 11:28 AM

I don't think you get what I mean, I know all about Leland chee, and the Holocron and Canon... of course Luke njo doesn't contradict ROTJ because it's after, and he could of improved his skill, the same way I haven't got a problem with DE Sidious, because its after the films his power could of improved. Leland chee states that the EU is Legitimate "Unless" it contradicts G-canon, the EU is NOT as canon as the films, read the statments Leland Chee, Sue Rostoni and the rest of Lucas licensing has put out about canon on starwars.com and you'll see this to be true.
This has spun into a moot point now, as I was trying to discuss a point about Revan's power versus GL's stated "Most powerful" Force users. this is not the argument I was trying to make, our opinion on canon is irrelevant... so How Powerfull was Revan?

Sephira 11-02-2007 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd
I don't think you get what I mean, I know all about Leland chee, and the Holocron and Canon... of course Luke njo doesn't contradict ROTJ because it's after, and he could of improved his skill, the same way I haven't got a problem with DE Sidious, because its after the films his power could of improved. Leland chee states that the EU is Legitimate "Unless" it contradicts G-canon, the EU is NOT as canon as the films, read the statments Leland Chee, Sue Rostoni and the rest of Lucas licensing has put out about canon on starwars.com and you'll see this to be true.
This has spun into a moot point now, as I was trying to discuss a point about Revan's power versus GL's stated "Most powerful" Force users. this is not the argument I was trying to make, our opinion on canon is irrelevant... so How Powerfull was Revan?

I get what you mean by G- canon triumphs over C-canon(The EU), i just misunderstood what you were trying to interpret earlier.

On a side note which i would like to add, many people get the idea that vader is weak and a slow ass fighter in the movie, but what people don't get is that vader was not trying his best, for the ANH duel vader and kenobi preferred to fight that way, as for TESB vader was merely toying with luke and as for ROTJ, luke stated in one of the novels that vader was holding back and could have easily annihilated him had he try.

As for dueling abilities vader is far from being sloppy because we have seen him display remarkable agility in his current state and being able to fight 7 jedi masters at once and wtf own 4 of them, im sure its clear that EU speeds do not contradict the speeds in the movie as chee stated so.

^ thats just to add a little note, hope you get what i mean

Anyways back to topic, just how powerful was revan? In my opinion, very powerful, in terms of knowledge he is second to yoda and sidious seeing that path of destruction states he knew more than an entire archive, in terms of strength in the force, he is under yoda and sidious according to several sources while he is roughly on the same level as vader for raw power.

For dueling capabilities i have no idea seeing that most of his dueling saber takes in gameplay which are not canon so in my opinion windu, vader/anakin, yoda and sidious beat him by far in that category.


If you would like ill list down revans feats which shows his trememdous powers

Jvstice 11-02-2007 12:45 PM

Sephira: I'd agree with that assessment. Kreia would have mentioned Revan's dueling if it were that spectacular. What she harps on is his insight into the force and human nature, his charisma, and his strength in the force.

In K2, you discover that the tablet Revan retrieved ok Korriban in K1 was by the best lightsaber duelist to have ever lived, but there's really no reason to think that Revan himself used it.

Sephira 11-02-2007 12:57 PM

It is unknown what happened to the tablet, kreia only speculated he could have taken it. And kreias a fallible character because she has never seen the ancient sith fight at all nor met tulak.

The only time we see the ancient sith actually fighting is between naga and ludo, the only thing we have seen the ancient sith lord to is throw a brick with the force and knock his opponent out.

@ A lil side note
Vader was very powerful to a point that the ancient sith saluted him due to his powers and not greatness and built him a throne alongside them on korriban, this can be seen in empires end when palpatine communicated with the ancient sith spirits. Ajunta pall also saluted revan and im sure he admired revans power.

This is another thing which indicates to me that in terms of pure power and strength, revan and vader are prehaps on par with one another


Oh yes to any moderators who are reading this, may i request we go off topic a lil while staying on topic? It makes this discussion much more intresting


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