LucasForums

LucasForums (http://www.lucasforums.com/index.php)
-   Republic Newsfeed (http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61)
-   -   Wich Female&Male K.O.TO.R. games(or other S.W.) Charachters Are Great Role Models (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=183431)

Empress Padme 11-02-2007 08:03 AM

Wich Female&Male K.O.TO.R. games(or other S.W.) Charachters Are Great Role Models
 
Which characters in the KOTOR games or other characters in the Star Wars universe make the best role models?

Based on how they carry themselves, honor, standing up for what they believe in, stuff like that.

Meowster 11-02-2007 08:20 AM

Best role models?

I would think either Carth or Mission. Mission for always cheery personality, stands up for herself ( and others, i.e. You, Zaalbar. ) and has respect. Carth, in the way that he does not turn to the easy path (unlike *one* of his mentors) and is willing to work hard, his sense of humour, and willing to help people.

Most of the people in KotOR are just...angsty, or vicious. Juhani is a nice girl, but she is very introverted, and doesn't care for herself that much. Bastila is way to strict for me to see her as a role model, and Jolee could work as a role model.

DEFINATELY not HK! :xp:

Totenkopf 11-02-2007 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meowster
DEFINATELY not HK! :xp:

Wha...???? I'd agree if the title said "positive/moral" :xp: Seriously, though, probably Jolee b/c he's willing to throw in and help out in the crunch, despite his misgivings. He recognizes evil and is willing to stand up to it, and not merely b/c the "code" tells him to either. He sees beyond the platitudes and appears able to think for himself. Not really sure that any of them (TSL crew also) would make "great" role models, but they naturally all have their positive and negative aspects.

Ctrl Alt Del 11-02-2007 10:42 AM

Almost everyone on the party of K1, except for HK and Canderous.

And no one, I mean no one, from the K2 team.

RedHawke 11-02-2007 07:03 PM

G0-T0...

Yeah, that's right... G0-T0. The 'Kaiser Soze' of Star Wars. He was a powerful business-droid that didn't want the galaxy destroyed or even to rule it himself, he desired stability. Pretty good role-model if you ask me.

Jvstice 11-02-2007 07:12 PM

Bryanna
Mission
Carth

Totenkopf 11-02-2007 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke
G0-T0...

Yeah, that's right... G0-T0. The 'Kaiser Soze' of Star Wars. He was a powerful business-droid that didn't want the galaxy destroyed or even to rule it himself, he desired stability. Pretty good role-model if you ask me.


:eyeraise: Huh? You mean you don't think that Mission's a great role model for exuding hawtness?!? Guess I've just regained some respect for you. :D

SilentScope001 11-02-2007 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke
G0-T0...

Yeah, that's right... G0-T0. The 'Kaiser Soze' of Star Wars. He was a powerful business-droid that didn't want the galaxy destroyed or even to rule it himself, he desired stability. Pretty good role-model if you ask me.

Concur. Makes more sense than what I say for a rolemodel, Kreia.

Ctrl Alt Del 11-02-2007 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvstice
Bryanna
Mission
Carth


Of course that's your opinion, but I can't see Brianna as a model for anything. She sure has that justice sense, but she got so many internal conflicts, with Atris and about her mother and her half-sisters, that puts her on the profile of someone that needs help.

Emperor Devon 11-03-2007 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke
Yeah, that's right... G0-T0. The 'Kaiser Soze' of Star Wars. He was a powerful business-droid that didn't want the galaxy destroyed or even to rule it himself, he desired stability.

Beaten to it by RH...

Ja, gotta admire Goto even if his methods for achieving peace were somewhat impure. He's the only authority figure in either game who can honestly claim to not have been corrupted by power. (Which is more than Revan/Kreia/Atris/everyone else can attest to.)

PoiuyWired 11-03-2007 01:56 AM

HK47, he has just the kind and loving touch to all those meatbags out there... I mean, his professionalism and his pride in his missions are unmatched. He is effective and direct.

PS: Don't argue with me, cause even I cannot convince myself to believe that.

Arátoeldar 11-03-2007 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke
G0-T0...

Yeah, that's right... G0-T0. The 'Kaiser Soze' of Star Wars. He was a powerful business-droid that didn't want the galaxy destroyed or even to rule it himself, he desired stability. Pretty good role-model if you ask me.

Barbra Streisand. The ends never justify the means.

Jolee
Carth
Mission
Mira

To the O.P., please don't shout in your titles.

Darth SINner 11-03-2007 12:02 PM

Revan - He went from conquorer to savior, villian to hero, light to dark back to light. He proves that your past doesn't justify your future. As a wise jedi once said "always in motion the future is." Not to mention that Revan kicked serious butt and had a group of people follow him and looked up to and admired him.

Jvstice 11-03-2007 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
Of course that's your opinion, but I can't see Brianna as a model for anything. She sure has that justice sense, but she got so many internal conflicts, with Atris and about her mother and her half-sisters, that puts her on the profile of someone that needs help.

She eventually works past those conflicts, and if the sense of justice isn't there, nothing else matters.

lordofmalachor 11-03-2007 01:54 PM

T3. amazing loyalty, and never gives up despite his "disadvantages".

Ctrl Alt Del 11-03-2007 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvstice
She eventually works past those conflicts, and if the sense of justice isn't there, nothing else matters.

spoiler:
By killing Atris and her sisters altogether? That seems more like a forced solution, and to one as powerful on the Force and combat trained as her, that is dangerous.


If there's ever some spin-off, like comic reliefs or something else about her and her life after Kotor, I'm unsure whether she'll shown as a stable person of sorts.

Rev7 11-03-2007 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordodmalachor
T3. amazing loyalty, and never gives up despite his "disadvantages".

Thats only because of his stuck motivator. :p

IMO, Jolee is the best role-model. He has a lot of wisdom, and a lot of good advice. Second to Jolee would be Revan because, either if you decide to be light or darksided, he could still be considered a great role-model, IMO of course. :)

lordofmalachor 11-03-2007 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev7
Thats only because of his stuck motivator. :p

IMO, Jolee is the best role-model. He has a lot of wisdom, and a lot of good advice. Second to Jolee would be Revan because, either if you decide to be light or darksided, he could still be considered a great role-model, IMO of course. :)

gotta agre with you on jolee and revan

Jvstice 11-03-2007 06:48 PM

Ctrl_Alt_Del: Re the mental stability. You're probably right. What do you expect from Kreia's daughter? But of the members from K2's party, she's probably the best role model.

Visas: Too haunted.
Mira: Money obsessed.
Mandalore: willing to kill his own over things beyond his minions' control
atton - former mass murderer who only quit because he was afraid he'd be judged by the standards he captured or murdered others for
bao dur: too haunted by his actions in the past
Hanharr: no way. He'd kill anyone you put in his care.
HK-47: If you were raising your children to be assassins, but ordinarily, no.
T3-M4: I suppose he wouldn't be bad.
Disciple: No spine.

PoiuyWired 11-04-2007 12:08 PM

^^ pretty good summary.

But I do think that Disciple suffers also from being waaaay too emo on top of that, and too obsessed with the whole jedi thing. I mean instead of being some perverted weirdo he can utilize his skills and become a much better person for the republic he cares so much about (or so he says) Though I do think that the annoying parts of his character may be blamed on the fact that parts of his storyline is cut, even though he is probably designed to be the "shorter end of the stick" for atton from start,

Same thing can be said about Brianna to a certain degree regarding her lack of inner self content in game.

Oh, HK47 is indeed a good role model if you can appreciate his mentality. He is THE most professional assassain., and its not just skillz I am talking about.

Jvstice 11-04-2007 01:56 PM

Also forgot to list
G0T0:
If you wanted them to be successful in bussiness & patriotic, but thought that compassion would be a liability, yes, but his sense of morality is skewed in a direction that most would not consider positive either.
Kreia: If you cared about their success more than their survival, then yes. But only if those were your priorities.

RedHawke 11-04-2007 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf
:eyeraise: Huh? You mean you don't think that Mission's a great role model for exuding hawtness?!? Guess I've just regained some respect for you. :D

"Hawtness" and being a role model are two quite different things... ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arátoeldar
Barbra Streisand.

Huh? :eyeraise:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arátoeldar
The ends never justify the means.

In a perfect world, sure. But believe it or not most of the time the ends do actually justify the means, happens every day. For good or ill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arátoeldar
Jolee
Carth
Mission
Mira

Since you addressed me above I'll address your selection of 'role models' they are anything but.
  • Jolee, failed Jedi and while he has a good heart and nature, a role model he isn't. Actually he is a good reason for the Jedi to have those 'no attachments' rules.
  • Carth, again nice guy, with issues, but a 'role model'? No.
  • Mission, she is spunky and also has a good heart, but she is far from role-model material. Perhaps when she is older and has done some things to make herself one. Then again she also has a possibility of never having this chance.
  • Mira... you got to be kidding? :lol:
Sorry mate.

Jediphile 11-04-2007 06:16 PM

In fact, I think none of the major characters in TSL are good role-models...

Exile: Has been in denial about severing his/her own connection to the force for a decade and continues to.

Kreia: I'm not even going to waste my breath explaining it.

Handmaiden: Betrays her oath to her sisters and Atris because she lusts after the exile, since he reminds her of her dead father. Ewww...

Disciple: Abandons his jedi training because he cannot get the woman teacher that he has a crush on...

Visas: Former sith assassin who remains ruthless and demonstrating complete lack of compassion for suffering individuals even after she has been "turned back to the light"

Atton: Extremely dark past that he absolutely will not reconcile with or accept the consequences of.

Bao-Dur: Admits to feeling joy and celebrating the deaths of the Mandalorians he killed during the war...

Mandalore: Finds it perfectly acceptable to conquer neutral worlds by attacking civilian targets.

Mira: Bounty hunter for hire who poisons the exile. Nuff said.

Hanharr: Killed his own tribe.

HK-47: Trigger-happy assassin droid who likes nothing better than to hear to the dyings screams of his targets.

T3-M4: Hmmm, actually T3 is probably not a bad choice. But he is a droid, and he DOES willfully put the exile in jeopardy in order to fulfil the quest Carth/Bastila gave him, which is not a very nice thing to do.

G0-T0: Uhm... just listen to any two conversations from him...

PoiuyWired 11-05-2007 01:00 AM

So, basically the only good role model in TSL is remote...

Arátoeldar 11-05-2007 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke
Huh? :eyeraise

Hint: First letter in each of the nut job’s name

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke
In a perfect world, sure. But believe it or not most of the time the ends do actually justify the means, happens every day. For good or ill.

No using even a little bit evil to do a greater good is never justified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke
Since you addressed me above I'll address your selection of 'role models' they are anything but.
  • Jolee, failed Jedi and while he has a good heart and nature, a role model he isn't. Actually he is a good reason for the Jedi to have those 'no attachments' rules.
  • Carth, again nice guy, with issues, but a 'role model'? No.
  • Mission, she is spunky and also has a good heart, but she is far from role-model material. Perhaps when she is older and has done some things to make herself one. Then again she also has a possibility of never having this chance.
  • Mira... you got to be kidding? :lol:
Sorry mate.

Sorry but I don’t look for perfection on in my role models. Depending on your beliefs, there has never been a perfect human being and there never will be.

Yes, Jolee is a good reason to the “No Attachment” rule. However he did learn from his mistake and did not repeat it.

I’ll admit that I letting my biases and even my interpretation of Mira’s history color my selection of her.

RedHawke 11-05-2007 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arátoeldar
Hint: First letter in each of the nut job’s name

I still don't get it... oh well! :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arátoeldar
No using even a little bit evil to do a greater good is never justified.

Well the world at large and history would disagree with you on this. Unfortunately.

Empress Padme 11-05-2007 10:30 PM

How did a gangster remote become a great role model? Even more bizarre is that I actually may agree with it, LOL.

Anyway, a great role can make mistakes as long they own up to the fact they did and not continually make them.

'Hawtness' is not a good reason for a role model, it's just a bonus,lol.

Carth- is a nice choice, paranoid yes but can't really blame the guy.

Mission - no, she's a scoundrel at heart and whiny.

Canderous - .......... next

HK - if we are gonna bring droids in as options T3-M4 is a better choice than a bloodthirsty droid, but he is funny

Bastila- the scene where that guy on Tantooine is surrounded by droids because of his wife, Bastila's reaction killed any chance of her being a positive influence.I'm not even gonna go into the rest of her actions.

Jolee- is a great choice, however he has a scoundrel past to which he shows no remorse and basically lives in trees for 20 years not helping anybody.

Juhani - too spineless , if it weren't for Revan I highly believe she would be a Sith.

Handmaiden - ditches her vows to fight over a hot Jedi , noooo

Kreia- great villian ,yes.great role model, no.

Atton- lovable Han Solo wanna be but no.

Mira - even after she becomes a Jedi she still considers the Exile her bounty.Nice girl but alas no.

Bao Dur - issues,issues.Needs a shrink STAT

Hanhaar- umm,no

Visas- love the girl but even when turned 'good' she still has a very ' unique' stand on things.

Disiple- I didn't get to have the hot teacher so I left the order....wait she's come back must follow her like a dog in heat.

GO-TO- Will kill whoever it needs to for 'stability' in the galaxy.I saw a droid with a 'God complex'.

My choice suprisingly didn't even think of until this morning - Zalbaar. Loyal. Protects a whiny brat. Stands up for whats right even if it goes against his family's interests.A bit tempermental but mostly keeps his mouth shut so I can play the game without constant interuptions. Carth's a close second.Yes whiny but he follows Revan's orders to protect the Republic and when Saul approached him to turn him ,he refused. Overall a good guy who's not power hungry.Who is honestly trying to help/protect the galaxy.

Totenkopf 11-06-2007 01:38 AM

Was being tongue in cheek about hawtness "role model" jibe. While being "hot" may be a nice bonus.....most models are probably too narcicistic/stupid to want to emulate.

Still, I'm sure that there are many who idolize the late Marilyn Monroe b/c of her fabled sex appeal (in essence, making her a role model for "hawtness" :xp: ).

Tommycat 11-06-2007 03:25 AM

Jolee - Sorry, the Jedi order is not perfect. So Jolee not being a perfect jedi is not a reason to brush him aside. He has a compassion about him. He cares for others. Plus wisdom is a wonderful thing.

HK-47 - There is a quality about him that shows pride in his accomplishments. While brutal and cruel, he is not ashamed of himself. He teaches you to be proud of who you are. Be proud of your work. And of course I'm kidding about him being a role model.


On the comment the ends never justify the means... Suppose all that killing done in WWII was not justified. No, I'm not just talking about the soldiers who died. Entire cities were leveled to save countless more lives. If you want a real discussion on the practice of evil to do a greater good, I'll be happy to discuss it, but not in this thread.

lordofmalachor 11-06-2007 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommycat
Jolee - Sorry, the Jedi order is not perfect. So Jolee not being a perfect jedi is not a reason to brush him aside. He has a compassion about him. He cares for others. Plus wisdom is a wonderful thing.

HK-47 - There is a quality about him that shows pride in his accomplishments. While brutal and cruel, he is not ashamed of himself. He teaches you to be proud of who you are. Be proud of your work. And of course I'm kidding about him being a role model.


On the comment the ends never justify the means... Suppose all that killing done in WWII was not justified. No, I'm not just talking about the soldiers who died. Entire cities were leveled to save countless more lives. If you want a real discussion on the practice of evil to do a greater good, I'll be happy to discuss it, but not in this thread.

Well, I obviously think jolee's a role model. And for some strange reason, I actually agree with you on the mass murdering crazy robot. What he's doing is only wrong if he choses to see it thst way.

Arátoeldar 11-06-2007 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke
I still don't get it... oh well! :p

BS as in Bull Excrement.

Nancy Allen`` 11-06-2007 07:18 PM

Role models? Ohhh, let's see. From the first game I would have to agree with Carth and Mission. Jolee too, despite not being all goody goody about it. In a way most of the characters have positive traits, as well as some faults. Bastila's blind loyalty to the Jedi for example, or Juhani wrestling with the desire for revenge. Or Revan, how I think he truely was. Sure he was a Sith Lord, but I always think back to him and Mission where he swears the Sith will pay. Given that canologically it was the Cathars that drove him to action in the first place I would say this is a great example of the shades of grey that exist. This is taken to new heights in the second game. Who here would be classed as a good guy or positive role model. The only one I can think of is Lonna Vash, yes you heard me right. Stick on the mod for her, or look at some of the cut content. Best of a motley crew if you ask me.

So what other characters could be seen as positive role models? Han, older Han, where he matures. Even from the second film he improves dramatically and continues to do so as he ages. Jaina for stepping up and realising the way things are even at her young age. Maybe I'm biased but add Mara Jade in there too, even as a Sith she had more morality than most of them.

Ben Bryddia 03-14-2008 01:01 AM

Obviously, nobody is perfect so it seems what is more important is how you deal with those imperfections. I always have thought the whole thing with Jedi becoming monks and trying to act and reason without emotion or bias was a recipe for disaster. We are made with emotions and the capacity to love.

I think Aratoeldar's comment that the ends never justify the means is appropriate since we are discussing which individuals would be good to emulate and morality is a definite aspect of a good role model. At the same time, within just limits, killing may be appropriate. Such as capitol punishment for a murderer or an adulterer should the primary victim (the wronged spouse) wish for that sanction to be executed against the criminals. (Here I wish to point out that I TOTALLY disagree with Bastila's line 'No one deserves execution, no matter what their crimes') See Gary North's Tools of Dominion, great work on justice and the like.

Revan, hmm, how could a darksider who thinks civil war is the best way to prepare his government for a massive attack of some sort be considered a good role model morally? Yes we all know Revan can beat more than half the chaps of his time to a pulp but then, so could Vader. Should Revan have become a hero after he regained all his memories before the duel with Malak (New Essential Chronology, to you lazy check his Wookipedia article) the new see a classic, albeit convoluted and secularized, story of redemption.

I agree with those who say Carth would be a fairly good role model. Loyalty to people and government is a very commendable virtue, provided the government is not evil. He seemed to love his family very much. He also shows he’s no heartless creep in the KotOR comics. Vigilante ‘justice’ may not be his most admirable trait however.

As I said above I think the Jedi philosophy (in fact all Star Wars, Cosmic/Secular humanist philosophies) are skewed. So I think Bindo has some points there, it is possible to love selflessly, and the Jedi (In my opinion all human based worldviews) are lacking in something fundamental to how sentients work. Of course, Jolee didn’t think that way, but still, the chap is leaning closer to the right direction than, say, Vrook, Juhani, Vandar, Krynda, Yoda, and…*snap snap* Come on guys, who am I forgetting?

If you consider Brianna to have betrayed her oaths to her rightful mistress, then, yes 'tis a very unheroic sort of action. On the other hand I would like to point out that Atris was a hypocritical Sith who's 'Jedi control' theory was hogwash and who had lost all touch with real moral principle, shut up while the Galaxy was dying. To rebel against an unjust, immoral, and or villainous form of oppression (yes, with violence if truly unavoidable) is the duty of a good and decent individual. At the same time, she could have been a better sport when Visas came into the picture (in fact you can get her to give you the silent treatment for the duration of the game if you play your cards right) and her feelings for Exile were a tad…strange to say the least. Still, she is one of the slightly more morally upstanding people in The Sith Lords, particularly when compared with the rest of the Hawk’s crew. But I don’t wish to get into the ‘who’s better than who’ mess any more than I have.

-Bearer of the Krijinia.

Gothic90 04-07-2008 12:51 AM

To be a role model means to lose individual personality. Look at those signs on public toilets, they are role models.

So if you consider any human character a role model, probably he/she would want to press a blaster pistol in his/her brain and press the trigger.

I think the only possible role model is T3.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.