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-   -   How do you know what's canon in KOTOR? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=185266)

Serpentine Cougar 01-13-2008 12:14 AM

How do you know what's canon in KOTOR?
 
After finishing KotoR 1, I went and read the Wookiepedia article about the game. I was just curious to see what it said, and one thing in particular stood out to me. In the "Synopsis" section, it said, "Note: This is based on the canonical male light side version of the game and assumes that the planets are visited in the order Dantooine, Tatooine, Kashyyyk, Manaan and Korriban."

What I want to know, though, is how do they know what the canonical version of the game is? Note that I haven't played TSL, so maybe it's cleared up there, but somehow I doubt KotoR 2 would go so far as to state the order you visit the planets in.

Ctrl Alt Del 01-13-2008 08:00 AM

Books, such as Essential Guides to something or another, or other allowed medias are considered canon. Exclusively for the Exile, she was stated as SHE/HER, many times on the New Essential Guide to Droids or something like.

Anything you find here can also be considered canon. Don't trust everything on Wookiepedia, though.

adamqd 01-13-2008 10:06 AM

It was established as LSM Revan, and LSF Exile for the purpose of guides and novels, but that has no effect on your game experiance. It's just so they can write a profile/story about characters without being vague.

Jae Onasi 01-14-2008 01:45 AM

George says so.

A little less tongue in cheek...when something like the Essential Chronology is approved by LucasArts to say Revan was LSM and Exile was LSF, that essentially means it's received the 'blessing' of LA to set the genders and lightside/darkside of that particular character. Practically speaking, whenever _you_ play the game, you can make him/her whatever gender and light/darkness you want. They only set a particular canon/lightside/darkside orientation for purposes of publishing stories, comics, and so forth down the road so that there's some continuity. It would be very confusing if there was a LSM Revan in one novel, but a DSF Revan in a comic book series. LA sets the genders and other details so that that type of confusion doesn't occur.

Jasper_Kazai 01-14-2008 06:35 AM

The only reason a canonical story is set is so they can make more money off of it.

adamqd 01-14-2008 06:58 AM

True, but I think that more Star Wars is a good thing, and if that means books and Comics, and a canonical ending for games, so be it.

Corinthian 01-14-2008 02:05 PM

Well, there's a man named Leland Chee. Really little guy, only about twelve inches tall. He sits on George Lucas' shoulder and whispers to him, saying that Jaden Korr was a Sith Lord or that Revan didn't actually use a pair of double-bladed lightsabers. This was his master plan to conquer the GFFA.

adamqd 01-14-2008 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian
This was his master plan to conquer the GFFA.

The Galactic Federation of Free Alliances? ;)

Kas'!m 01-14-2008 06:00 PM

Why do you want to know what's canon or not?

Ctrl Alt Del 01-14-2008 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kas'!m
Why do you want to know what's canon or not?

To know in what to place your faith on, on what to base your arguments?

Serpentine Cougar 01-17-2008 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kas'!m
Why do you want to know what's canon or not?

Because I have a friend who's thinking of writing a fan-novelization of the game, and would like to stick to the canon.

Does anyone know how Wookiepedia came up with that particular order that the planets were visited in?

Jasper_Kazai 01-17-2008 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpentine
Because I have a friend who's thinking of writing a fan-novelization of the game, and would like to stick to the canon.

Does anyone know how Wookiepedia came up with that particular order that the planets were visited in?

*Wookiee.
And my guess is that it's because the order that Bastila says the planets in the
spoiler:
OMG-I'm-Revan! flashback.

Ben Bryddia 02-05-2008 03:03 AM

:twocents: This may help. :sweat:

Usually, canon in game is any dialogue or item or quest that MUST be said, accomplished or used for the main story to be accomplished. For instance, rescuing Zaalbar, storming the Velkar Base, and winning race before the swoop explodes and kills you are cannon events. Details, however are vague, very vague.
You will notice that many times if you choose a different dialogue option, you will still get the same response, so even if what you say is not canonical per se, the other chaps very well may be. The essential 'bone' of the dialogue is also very important to use.

To anyone writing a Star Wars fanfiction, I recommend reading at least summaries of all the Tales of the Jedi comics, the Star Wars Tales comics Unseen, Unheard and Shadows and Light. Crucial to such research is the reading of the actual KotOr Dark Horse comics. Since they have appearances from Carth, Mission, Griff, Gadon, Brejik, Cassus Fett, Mandalore the Ultimate, Sual Kareth, and Jedi Revan and Malak. Now don't quote me on this but I think Krynda Draay is Kreia, but that's merely speculation.

The second game does confirm this, if you specify lightside male Revan. Carth and Bastila survive. Bastila and Revan had a relationship. Though it never does say if Revan killed Juhani or not.

If your friend is writing a fan novel, I recommend sticking to the essential skeleton of the Light Side Male story line while using discretion to figure out what dialogue, action, ect. would most enhance the meat of the story. Such as, making it so the planets are in this order Dantooine, Kashyyk, Manaan, Tatooine, Korriban. Since we all know what happens when you find starmap four and go to another planet, you could have Revan wrestling with the events that transpired onboard the Leviathan while in the academy on Korriban to heighten the tension; make the reader wonder, 'is the hero finally going to crack?' Since all that has been stated is that Revan finished the quest a good guy and stayed predominantly good while doing it, we can write between the lines as it were. Or, you could explain how on earth Bastila was smuggled through Taris after the swoop race without being captured.

Again, just thoughts.

DarthVandar205 02-12-2008 04:49 AM

Instead of retreading over story thats already explained in the game why not tell the story from a new perspective and explain things that happened offscreen inbetween ingame scenes. Also you could tell the story of some of the side quest characters more indepth. That way you could have a new experience even if you know the story of the game.

Ben Bryddia 02-14-2008 11:43 PM

I quite agree with you Darthvandar205. Hence my comment about how on earth they got the most wanted Jedi knight within twelve sectors past at least one checkpoint and numerous guards patrolling a pair of plazas without noticeably killing anyone. :confused:
There are, however, some parts of the game that should not be considered canon due either to appearance or improbability. :(

What I mean by the later is this, a light freighter with hyperdrive and fuel to make a great many hops round the Galaxy without taking a refueling stop yet it has no 'fresher unit. (Star Wars name for the bathroom) This is ridiculous, plainly a game mechanics thing.

What I mean by the former is this. Other Star Wars media may portray certain things appearing in KotOR. Of those I am aware I will now post them and the places wherein they are portrayed more accurately.

The Solari crystal (portrayed correctly in Star Wars Tales Shadows and Light)

Tukata beasts (correctly shown in: Star Wars Tales Shadows and Light, Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith, Tales of the Jedi: Golden Age of the Sith, The Essential Guide to Planets and Moons)

The Valley of the Dark Lords in general (Star Wars Tales Shadows and Light, Tales of the Jedi: Golden Age of the Sith, and to a lesser extent, Empire's End and Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith)

The Tomb of Marka Ragnos (Tales of the Jedi: Golden Age of the Sith and Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy to a lesser extent)

The Enigmatic Tomb of Naga Sadow (Star Wars Tales Shadows and Light [Interior assumed to be fairly accurate])

The Qel-Droma robes (Star Wars Tales Shadows and Light)

The Jedi Academy on Dantooine is also shown to be larger in (Knights of the Old Republic Volume 1 Commencement, Star Wars Tales Shadows and Light, Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith, and the much loved KotOR 2)

Other things I'd recommend to your friend include introducing and making reference to an enormous array of other events, creatures, and specific individuals glimpsed in other Star Wars media. But that is up to the author. And, please take note, I am by no means an authority on the subjects of writing or Star Wars. :confused:

-Bearer ti ato Krijinia.

DarthVandar205 02-15-2008 02:01 AM

I wasnt thinking about explaining unecessary things like where people use the fresher on the ebon hawk or things that are already explained in other media. Im just thinking that the story should be told from a new perspective or a different point of view and explain things that are mentioned in the game but otherwise not explored or including things that might be missing from the story but would help the main plot if they were there.

I was actually wondering about a few things in the story.....

How Carth and Revan could walk around Taris doing all the things they did with their faces out in the open and the sith dont even notice them. They may not have been looking for them but you still think the sith wouldve accessed the Republic Database on Endar Spire and passed their holos around to the local sith patrols.

How Canderous and the others got to the Ebon Hawk aboard the Leviathan through the hallway Revan and his group go through later and Canderous supposedly cleared it but when Revan goes through its populated by guards again.

How the Ebon Hawk being one of the most wanted ships in Sith space got to Koriban and landed without the sith realizing their presence and trying to stop them. Youd think between Czerka and the Sith Academy, the local sith there would know that ship was the Ebon Hawk and the staff there would immediately recognize Revan and his bunch.

Serpentine Cougar 02-17-2008 12:43 AM

Thank you all for the interesting comments!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
How the Ebon Hawk being one of the most wanted ships in Sith space got to Koriban and landed without the sith realizing their presence and trying to stop them. Youd think between Czerka and the Sith Academy, the local sith there would know that ship was the Ebon Hawk and the staff there would immediately recognize Revan and his bunch.

I believe there's also some people there who recognize the ship as belonging to a famous smuggler (the guy you originally got the ship from in the first place).

Ctrl Alt Del 02-17-2008 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpentine
I believe there's also some people there who recognize the ship as belonging to a famous smuggler (the guy you originally got the ship from in the first place).

Yeah, some will acknowledge it as being Davik's ship, and others as previous owners.

spoiler:
The barman on the cantina will even seem to have met them. And their gruesome fates.

Ben Bryddia 02-18-2008 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
How Carth and Revan could walk around Taris doing all the things they did with their faces out in the open and the sith dont even notice them. They may not have been looking for them but you still think the sith wouldve accessed the Republic Database on Endar Spire and passed their holos around to the local sith patrols.

How Canderous and the others got to the Ebon Hawk aboard the Leviathan through the hallway Revan and his group go through later and Canderous supposedly cleared it but when Revan goes through its populated by guards again.

How the Ebon Hawk being one of the most wanted ships in Sith space got to Koriban and landed without the sith realizing their presence and trying to stop them. Youd think between Czerka and the Sith Academy, the local sith there would know that ship was the Ebon Hawk and the staff there would immediately recognize Revan and his bunch.

Precisely this one's point. And I was only using the 'freshers as an example of a general principle. ;) It seems to me KotOR lacks environmental varriation and
detail as compared to other forms of Star Wars media such as the films and novels.
Other things that naturally ought to be discussed is what party members do with their downtime, where they go out to eat, assuming they do, and what everyone else does during Revan's initial swoop race, Revan's training. (I can't imagine them liking being cooped up in the academy for months)

Perhaps one could, for a change of veiw, follow another character's actions during the game climax (from Rakkata temple onward) observing how Revan behaves while the party is still together, then switching back to him when the time comes for him to go solo.

Another thing one chap on fanfiction.net did was expand the approach to the starforge with a starfighter attack. I also think it important that Revan really struggle to control his pain and anger over everything from what Malak did to Taris and Dantooine to the deaths he feels all about during the final battle.

Developing squad based strategies for a ten person party could also be cool. I always thought it an incredible waste of manpower to only have two buddies with you to invade a space station, even if Mission and T3 aren't the best warriors.
Also, could Revan get in trouble for stealing (assuming he does steal in the fic) at least once? It annoys me that I never get in trouble for barging in except in a few violent cases.

-Bearer of the Krijinia.


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