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-   -   Charisma makes you a better Force User...why? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=186941)

SilentScope001 03-09-2008 01:28 AM

Charisma makes you a better Force User...why?
 
You got Charisma, and it does two things:
-Make it easier to persuade other people to do your bidding
-Decrease how many Force Points you need to use any Force Power, LS or DS.

I can understand the former. Not the latter. So, guys, come up with a good RP justification. Please?

Rev7 03-09-2008 01:33 AM

Well, umm, difficult question...but I will try to tackle it...:

Umm, maybe charisma gives you wisdom into the force, therefore making it easier to manipulate? Or gives you wisdom on what the most effecient way to use a certain technique? That's about all that I got...

Bee Hoon 03-09-2008 01:35 AM

Because KotOR is loosely based on DnD :P

Balderdash 03-09-2008 06:00 AM

^ Winner. Charisma has never made sense as a stat, ever.

Ztalker 03-09-2008 06:49 AM

Ehm...ehm...example:

Not Charisma Jedi:
Master: "Did you just KILL that innocent civilian with Force Lightning?! You are Sith!"
Jedi: "Dang...he knows..."

Charisma Jedi:
Master: "Did you just KILL that innocent civilian with Force Lightning?! You are Sith!"
Jedi:*bliks teeth and sticks thumb up*
Master: "No, your charisma convinced me otherwise...

Imo, Charisma is also the looks. If you don't look particular DS or LS it seems you can use both sides easier as well. :)

stoffe 03-09-2008 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentScope001
You got Charisma, and it does two things:
-Make it easier to persuade other people to do your bidding
-Decrease how many Force Points you need to use any Force Power, LS or DS.

I can understand the former. Not the latter. So, guys, come up with a good RP justification. Please?

Charisma is a measure of willpower and force of personality in d20. So presumably you'll have a better ability to shape and command the Force if you are strong willed.

tk102 03-09-2008 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffe
Charisma is a measure of willpower and force of personality in d20. So presumably you'll have a better ability to shape and command the Force if you are strong willed.

Re: Force of personality
I've always understood charisma to be applied in interpersonal situations in order to improve a character's ability to coerce, convice, entice, seduce, intimidate, etc. someone else. After all, what is a personality if there no other person around?

Re: measure of willpower
Meanwhile willpower is a mental or spiritual fortitude and is completely intrapersonal. Note that your Will saves only get bonuses from you Wisdom modifier, not your Charisma modifier.

If Charisma is an interpersonal statistic, it should have no place in influencing an impersonal Force. Wisdom should be the only statistic used.

Ctrl Alt Del 03-09-2008 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk102
If Charisma is an interpersonal statistic, it should have no place in influencing an impersonal Force. Wisdom should be the only statistic used.

Or decrease the Force Points of just the Powers that affect a third-party.

tk102 03-09-2008 11:38 PM

Cortosis weave discussion split to this thread.

stoffe 03-09-2008 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk102
Re: Force of personality
I've always understood charisma to be applied in interpersonal situations in order to improve a character's ability to coerce, convice, entice, seduce, intimidate, etc. someone else. After all, what is a personality if there no other person around?

Not in the d20 system. Branch out a bit from d20 Starwars to d20 D&D. There you have Charisma as the governing attribute of sorcerers and warlocks, characters who can wield magic intuitively through force of will, rather than methodical study and ritual.

I'd imagine it works somewhat similarly in the d20 Starwars setting with its "magic", the Force.

Jae Onasi 03-09-2008 11:56 PM

A lot of Force powers affect people--manipulating them, stunning them, turning them insane, holding them in stasis, healing them, buffing with resistances, etc. So, having a higher Charisma makes sense when you're using a Force power that has an effect on people. Granted, some of the powers don't have effects on people, but it's easier for game mechanics to have just one stat to keep track of.

If someone's writing a fic or RP about it, it's kind of moot, because that's all background number-crunching that really doesn't have an effect on the story itself--I'm never going to write "Jolee leveled up, boosting his Wis and Cha to 22, so now he can wipe out an entire platoon with a single thought of Force Wave if he rolls anything above 1."

tk102 03-10-2008 01:23 AM

But Jae, said fic would be awesome.

Re d20: I guess I'm still stuck on 1st ed rules. :D No warlocks or sorcerors. Charisma is for bards and paladins. Bards are in the appendix.

Tommycat 03-10-2008 03:37 AM

I would think it is simple:

Since the force is a living thing, manipulation of that living thing is easier when you have that special trait which makes you more persuasive.

PoiuyWired 03-10-2008 10:19 AM

Well, in the D20 DnD it basically goes:
Int:
Magic Thingy you can study for, like the bookworm type of mages. Study spells, learn new stuff thru reading and research and etc.

Wis:
Magic thingy you got from some higher power. Do some rituals, rules of your own belief system etc... oh and they wear armor just as well as the average joe.

Cha:
Magic thingy that comes naturally from your oen enlightenment and not studied for.

Well, since Int would not make sense when it comes to most force powers it would just be a choice of Wis or Cha. Personally I think Wis would be a reasonable choice as well, but I guess Cha is used cause it is much mroe balanced. Since Jedi already got the Wis to AC(defence) bonus from the Monks then linking force points to Wis would just result in massive Wis pumping. Now at least Cha would not be a dump stat.

Clone L68362 03-11-2008 07:11 PM

Simple answer - to make it more useful.

Jvstice 03-11-2008 08:13 PM

Tommy: Exactly what I was thinking to write... Qui Gonn Jinn was convinced that the force had a mind and a will of it's own, and saw himself as a servant of the will of the force. He and Ben Kenobi discussed this. It would seem to be evidence they were right..

Poiuy: definitely balance is definitely a big factor.

Alexander the Great 03-16-2008 04:42 PM

Gives you more willpower and determination and all that junk, which adds to your mental state, which makes your Force powers more efficient.

JCarter426 03-16-2008 05:24 PM

I'm pretty sure it's Wisdom, not Charisma, that increases Will.

Jvstice 03-16-2008 05:25 PM

yes. that is true.

Alexander the Great 03-16-2008 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCarter426
I'm pretty sure it's Wisdom, not Charisma, that increases Will.

I'm not talking about the stats. I'm talking about charisma exclusively, and willpower abstractly.

PoiuyWired 03-17-2008 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCarter426
I'm pretty sure it's Wisdom, not Charisma, that increases Will.

Yup its Con-> Fort, Dex->Reflex, Wiz-> Will.

And really, seeing all the ancient sithlords with big armor and stuff, coupled with the fact that the force has a will on its own, it would make way more sense to use Wiz. So its just balancing.

I mean, currently:
Wiz: gives you Will Saves, AC bonus(Jedi, monk style).
Dex: still a way to get AC, oh and reflex saves.
Cha: The traditional dump stat, esp when there are only a few spor where Cha bonus is used rather than the lightsaber, so a bit of force related bonus is needed. But yes, if you still want to go hack n slash style then even that bit of fun can be ignored.

Though I personally like characters with higher cha, to pick up barmaids and what not and other fun stuff.

Gothic90 04-08-2008 08:44 PM

First thing...Charisma is a very, very useful stat.
It not only increases Persuade check & decreases Force power alignment penalty
but it also increases the attack bonus of your teammates...your ability to influence them
and most importantly, it affects the Difficulty class of your force powers in the same way as your Wisdom does.

If wisdom shows how well you master your force powers, charisma shows how well you command your force powers.

Sabretooth 04-08-2008 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker
Ehm...ehm...example:

Not Charisma Jedi:
Master: "Did you just KILL that innocent civilian with Force Lightning?! You are Sith!"
Jedi: "Dang...he knows..."

Charisma Jedi:
Master: "Did you just KILL that innocent civilian with Force Lightning?! You are Sith!"
Jedi:*bliks teeth and sticks thumb up*
Master: "No, your charisma convinced me otherwise...

:rofl:

If you ask me, the game developers prolly envisioned the Force like Kreia - an insidious deity seeking absolute balance. So if you're charismatic and sexy, you can probably convince the Force to be on your side and help you out.

The transition to this philosophy of the Force is equivalent to what a child goes through on the day he learns Santa Claus isn't real.

MaceLyden 06-08-2008 07:57 PM

ok. it uses charisma for that, because the game is based off of DnD, and in DnD Charisma is needed to be a good magic wielder. Secondly, Charisma is your negotiating skills and your tool to manipulate things to do your bidding. Therefore, you are, (in a matter of speaking), persuading the force into letting you use a power that is otherwise harder for you to use. you are getting past the rules through means of negotiation, persuasion, and manipulation of the rules themselves.

Gavroche 06-09-2008 02:29 AM

Well, if Charisma allows you to persuade people, it could also work the other way round. Meaning that it prevents you from being influenced, as your personality is more prevailing. So if you have a weak "personality", using Force powers "influences" you and tires you (= more FP spent), while with a strong one you are not dominated by the Force. I guess that joins Kreia's vision of the Force.



In Soviet Russia, Force Powers Uses YOU!! :P

ForeverNight 06-17-2008 07:18 PM

:lol: :lol: <---Spending too much time on Communism on uncyclopedia.com?

Well, that explanation makes a lot of sense actually. In AD&D 2.0, I know that your Charisma does nothing, nada, to your magic, it just adjusts your max henchmen, their base loyalty to you, and your reaction adjustment to surprising situations.

So, saying that since its D20 and in D&D which is D20 then makes it possible just doesn't work...

Unless, of course, Wizards of Coast screwed over everything when they took over from TSR and made their piece of crap versions (3.0 and 3.5... 4.0 looks very nice!)

MajinMikeyX 08-25-2008 12:50 AM

The second choice only applies to TSL right? Charisma effects (for example a Light Side Character using a dark side power) the penalty of how many force points the power costs. This only happened for me in TSL, never in KotOR.

Sorry if this is hard to understand, I'm really tired right now and might have had grammatical errors. :(


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