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-   -   If chancellor palpatine was never a sith would anakin still be on the light path? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=189734)

Jedil3thal 06-19-2008 03:08 PM

If chancellor palpatine was never a sith would anakin still be on the light path?
 
:indif:If chancellor palpatine was never a sith would jedi anakin still be on the light path or would he still have become a sith?:si

Rev7 06-19-2008 03:40 PM

I would guess that Anakin would still be a Jedi, but that is all hypothetical. Without Sidious, Anakin might not be around. I say that because Sidious was Darth Plagueis's Sith apprentice. It is said the Darth Plagueis created Anakin, but that is I guess just speculation.

Yeah, I would guess that Anakin would probably be a Jedi if he was normal. :D

adamqd 06-19-2008 04:44 PM

I think The Jedi themselves played a bigger role in Anakins demise than they thought, Palpatine simply opened doors and lent an ear, Obi-wans failure to calm Anakins emotional relationship with the force, Mace's distrust and vilification of Skywalker and of course Yoda's failure to accept the Sith's Return and the clouding of the Force with the Dark side. Anakin was always treated differently to his piers, Held in high esteem, yet distanced, given responsibility, yet overruled and belittled. He spent 13 or so years with the Jedi 24/7, yet he felt he didn't know them enough to believe there intentions over Palpatine (A politician at that)

M@RS 06-19-2008 05:20 PM

He also married Padme, and that's what really turned him bad...also his mom died in front of him, and he figured it was because he became a jedi...

TKA-001 06-19-2008 06:48 PM

Quote:

Obi-wans failure to calm Anakins emotional relationship with the force
I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

Quote:

Mace's distrust and vilification of Skywalker
I can't blame Mace. As provεn in Episode III, he was right to distrust him. I'm not sure what you mean by his "vilification" of the man.

Quote:

Yoda's failure to accept the Sith's Return and the clouding of the Force with the Dark side
What? Yoda was one of the first to agree that the Sith returned, and he's the one who mentioned the dark side's clouding effect.

adamqd 06-20-2008 04:12 AM

:He was ruled by his emotions and let that effect his decisions, Obi didn't manage to train that out of him.

:vil·i·fy (vl-f)
tr.v. vil·i·fied, vil·i·fy·ing, vil·i·fies
To make defamatory statements about

:Sorry, I meant to write "Act upon" not "Accept" the Sith's return :)

anyway Lets hear your opinion, not your opinion on my opinion, see post # 1

PoiuyWired 06-22-2008 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd (Post 2481149)
I think The Jedi themselves played a bigger role in Anakins demise than they thought, Palpatine simply opened doors and lent an ear, Obi-wans failure to calm Anakins emotional relationship with the force, Mace's distrust and vilification of Skywalker and of course Yoda's failure to accept the Sith's Return and the clouding of the Force with the Dark side. Anakin was always treated differently to his piers, Held in high esteem, yet distanced, given responsibility, yet overruled and belittled. He spent 13 or so years with the Jedi 24/7, yet he felt he didn't know them enough to believe there intentions over Palpatine (A politician at that)

A few things to consider:

1) Palpy definitely play a role, he is doing subtle guide to Ani's up bringing. And, its known that Ani is indeed in contact with Palpy from time to time.

2) The whole wattime is Palpy's doing, and one of his objective is to corrupt jedis, Ani is not the only one, but he is a prime target.

3) Obi Wan may not be the best master for Ani. He got the heart no doubt, but he is too green. He would work much better as a big buddy (that he is) than Ani's master. I always think that people like Tholme would do a much better job.

4) Well, Obi Wan is, more or less, the type of jedi that suck up to the council's command. Ani is not the type that is suitable for such events. Really, he would be better off following a master (or group) that is less tied to the increasingly bloated up structure and rules of the Jedi Council. There are quite some examples of jedis that would wander their own way following the will of the force without tangled by jedi council politics (QuiGon, Zao, etc).

I would say that yes Palpy is THE reason for Ani to go sith. But the jedi council is not doing a good job training up Ani either. Thing is, Ani is given high expactations and low rewards for his exceptional ability. In fact, he is in deed getting held back sometimes, fearing that he would be advancing too fast, while had the same task been performed by a normal jedi he would have gone a long way.

Having said that, yes Ani is a jerk, that is no denying. Ani would still be a jerk even without Palpy. But there is a difference between a Sith and a Jerk.

K_Kinnison 06-30-2008 03:18 AM

You could easily say that the death of his mother is what really did him in. But then again, Palpytine was the final one to make anakin commit by using the Death of Padme against him and tricking him into thinking the ways of the Sith could save her.

Nedak 06-30-2008 01:39 PM

Anakin would probably just be a light sided emo boy, if Palp never went sith.

Iron Rose 07-06-2008 05:05 PM

Darth Plagueis created Anakin with the force and probally would have hunted him down when he was born and trained him as a sith.

K_Kinnison 07-06-2008 11:57 PM

iron rose YOu might as well say that if there were any sith around, they would have tried to turn Anakin to the Dark side

There is only circumstantial evidance that Plagueis might have used the force to conceive Anakain. The scary thing about that idea, that if it was done once.. could it be repeated.

I don't think the SW universe should have that dilemma of "supersith" or "SuperJedi". The end game of that is a Supersith would kill every other force users, while a SuperJedi would kill himself before being tempted to turn

Fredi 07-07-2008 12:25 AM

I think Anakin would be a slave or a freeking psichotic robot maker.:D

adamqd 07-07-2008 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_Kinnison (Post 2490206)

I don't think the SW universe should have that dilemma of "supersith" or "SuperJedi". The end game of that is a Supersith would kill every other force users, while a SuperJedi would kill himself before being tempted to turn

QFT, I Completely agree, People tend to start taking SW too far out of the box and it ends up being muddied, SW isn't a subjective genre, it's an established style with motifs, musings about creating life with the force, Dark Empire, TSL, and the NJO have tried to re-write parts of what SW is, they fail.

but yeah, although he may not of been Sith, he would of eventually been booted from the order, murder and relationships don't go down well with old macey

Astor 07-07-2008 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_Kinnison (Post 2490206)
There is only circumstantial evidance that Plagueis might have used the force to conceive Anakain. The scary thing about that idea, that if it was done once.. could it be repeated.

But it would be difficult to repeat. Plagueis is said to be the only person (who we know of) that could manipulate the force to create life. Palpatine says that he would need Anakin to do it again, and Palpatine was one of the most powerful Sith.

So, it could be done again, but at extreme difficulty.

Relenzo2 07-08-2008 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiuyWired (Post 2482665)

Ani would still be a jerk even without Palpy. But there is a difference between a Sith and a Jerk.

Timesless. Absolute, sig-quality timeless.

martmeister 07-11-2008 10:18 PM

Palpatine played subtle roles to begin with: orchestrating the Trade Federation's blockade, causing Qui-Gon and Obi-wan to go to Tatooine in the first place. So without Palpy, Anakin would've been a slave boy until the cows came home or once he realized his powers and did something to free himself.


Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiuyWired (Post 2482665)
4) Well, Obi Wan is, more or less, the type of jedi that suck up to the council's command.

I think in Eps II, Anakin comments on how Obi-wan wasn't the most obedient little Jedi out there. I think Yoda references Anakin's behavior to Obi-wan's. In the end, both Yoda and Obi learned the perils of blindly following the Jedi council.

TKA-001 07-12-2008 02:39 PM

Quote:

murder and relationships don't go down well with old macey
Like Mace doesn't ever kill people.

Quote:

Yoda and Obi learned the perils of blindly following the Jedi council.
What? The way they screwed up was not following the rules and leaders enough, not following them too much.

Quote:

Dark Empire, TSL, and the NJO have tried to re-write parts of what SW is
TSL didn't try to rewrite anything. It just presented a character with a differing viewpoint.

Astor 07-12-2008 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd (Post 2490262)
Dark Empire, TSL, and the NJO have tried to re-write parts of what SW is, they fail.

Well, Lucas actually said that Dark Empire was pretty close to plans he had for a sequel trilogy - so I wouldn't necessary say that it failed.

TKA-001 07-12-2008 07:10 PM

I'd like a source which confirms that Mr. Lucas was not under the influence of drugs when he said that.

Ctrl Alt Del 07-12-2008 08:59 PM

First, one must set his own mind clear to even begin on thinking at this. Is the future shiftless and determined or is it rewritten at every moment? If one thinks that the fate of everything is bound since before their existence, then Palpatine played a role no greater than, let's say, some random federation droid slashed by Ani at AotC. Because if Ani was bound to be a Jedi Knight, fall and be redeemed by his son, Palpy's factor is non-relevant to the equation, not mattering how many strings he pulled, as fate would undoubtely have found another way for everything to happen. On that scenario, Palpy's nothing more than a tool.

If fate, however, always changes, then Palpy's role grow considerably. Wasn't it for him who else would have:

Quote:

Originally Posted by martmeister (Post 2492709)
orchestrating the Trade Federation's blockade, causing Qui-Gon and Obi-wan to go to Tatooine in the first place.

Therefore:
Quote:

So without Palpy, Anakin would've been a slave boy until the cows came home or once he realized his powers and did something to free himself.

starwind40 02-20-2009 09:01 PM

Great points all around.

The way I see it is that Anakin is the most powerful jedi behind Mace and Yoda. The fact that they started to not trust him, they should have befriended him and kept a friendlier watch on him. One of my Favorite quotes in RotS is when Palpy says "they need you, more than you know." All Palpy has to do is nudge him every now and again and Anakin will slip. Kind of like if your kid is being difficult and as a parent you get harsher and harsher punishments, you run the risk of your kid running to friends that may not be the best influence, but boost your ego and make you feel like you are worth something rather than feeling lacking to your parents.

I think the Jedi council is unsure about Anakin's strength and recklessness, but they do handle it in the wrong way. and it is too bad that Kenobi is too straight and narrow for Anakin to get some perspective with his relationship with Padme, a lot could have been avoided if anakin could talk to Kenobi without kenobi "looking down on him". that also assists Palpy in turning him. When ya feel like you've plateau'd at your career, you find another one with better benefits. If Palpy will let me be as powerful as I want and teach me awesome stuff and acts like teh father I never had, F the Jedi.

especially when the council wants him to spy on Palpy. WOOPS

anyway with all the distancing, YES I think Anakin would eventually turn against the Jedi, whether he falls to the dark side or becomes a little more like a darker version of Gui-gon

sorry for rambling

Visas 11-09-2009 09:13 AM

No, he was still a piece of crap.

noizer 11-12-2009 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd (Post 2481149)
I think The Jedi themselves played a bigger role in Anakins demise than they thought, Palpatine simply opened doors and lent an ear, Obi-wans failure to calm Anakins emotional relationship with the force, Mace's distrust and vilification of Skywalker and of course Yoda's failure to accept the Sith's Return and the clouding of the Force with the Dark side. Anakin was always treated differently to his piers, Held in high esteem, yet distanced, given responsibility, yet overruled and belittled. He spent 13 or so years with the Jedi 24/7, yet he felt he didn't know them enough to believe there intentions over Palpatine (A politician at that)

i agree with you.

i think Anikin would have fallen to the dark side anyway. not as a sith but as a dark jedi.


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