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-   -   Juhani vs. Visas Marr (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=189896)

luckyariot 06-25-2008 12:20 PM

Juhani vs. Visas Marr
 
Okay, I've seen a bunch of these vs. threads, and that got me (and my brother) wondering who would win in a fight of Juhani vs. Visas. Because we can't decide, I chose to post this and watch the fists fly. :D

Scenario 1: Basic Sparring. No force powers.

Scenario 2: "You're in my way". (My brother thought of this) What if the (M)Exile and (F)Revan were in trouble, and to rescue them, Visas and Juhani had to fight to save one or the other. Heh, high stakes.

Scenario 3: Force Battle. Just force techniques. Light and dark.

Scenario 4: Hand-to-Hand combat. No weapons or force-powers. (Not Echani style, sorry guys :xp:)

Scenario 5: All-out-battle. Just use whatever you can to defeat the enemy.

I'll post my opinions when some people have posted theirs. Let the battle begin!:lol:

Giant Graffiti 06-25-2008 12:29 PM

1. Lightsabers? If so my guess is Juhani.

2. Most likely Visas.

3. I can't really say on this one.

4. Juhani, again.

5. Probably Visas.

TKA-001 06-25-2008 01:33 PM

Δepends on how the player develops their stats as the game goes on, since no canonical measurement of their abilities is given. I see no fair way to decide the outcome of any of these [hypothetical scenarios].

luckyariot 06-25-2008 04:42 PM

Yeah, TKA, I know. But I just wanted some opinions outside of game stats.

Robondacob 06-25-2008 05:14 PM

Scenario 1: Juhani

Scenario 2: Juhani because Visas would kill herself for some strange reason.

Scenario 3: Visas.

Scenario 4: Juhani

Scenario 5: Visas.

HIGH ON PIE 14 06-25-2008 05:39 PM

1. Juhani

2. Visas - given the great need she seems to have for the male exile I would think Visas would do anything to save him, where as Juhani...while she likes Revan...well she's not as crazy about Revan as Visas is for the Exile.

3. Visas - Juhani is a guardian and therefore more saber oriented were es Visas is a sentinel, in the middle.

4. Juhani hands down. Physically Visas is not very strong were as Juhani being a Cathar is far stronger than a Miraluka girl. Cathar are known as great physical warriors.

5. Could go either way...I guess Juhani because she is more agressive... but then again if Visas got a force power in...hmmm. Well if you give them their actual game stats both at level 6 (their starting level before you ever level them up) Juhani would win. But theorhetically...I can't say.

Rev7 06-25-2008 06:49 PM

1. I have to go with Juhani with this one.

2. Visas

3. Visas

4. Juhani

5. I will have to go with Visas.

TKA-001 06-25-2008 07:17 PM

Quote:

Yeah, TKA, I know. But I just wanted some opinions outside of game stats.
I understand that. My point was that game stats is the only way to gaugε their capabilities.

The Source 06-25-2008 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyariot (Post 2484024)
Scenario 1: Basic Sparring. No force powers.

Juhani.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyariot (Post 2484024)
Scenario 2: "You're in my way". (My brother thought of this) What if the (M)Exile and (F)Revan were in trouble, and to rescue them, Visas and Juhani had to fight to save one or the other. Heh, high stakes.

No Contest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyariot (Post 2484024)
Scenario 3: Force Battle. Just force techniques. Light and dark.

Visas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyariot (Post 2484024)
Scenario 4: Hand-to-Hand combat. No weapons or force-powers. (Not Echani style, sorry guys :xp:)

Juhani.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyariot (Post 2484024)
Scenario 5: All-out-battle. Just use whatever you can to defeat the enemy.

Juhani.

luckyariot 06-26-2008 04:50 PM

By the way you guys, in the directions I forgot to state to tell your reasons why.

Gothic90 07-26-2008 08:47 AM

1. Juhani. If all force powers are disabled, that means Visas cannot use Force Sight, which means she is REAL BLIND.

2. Visas. She can do anything for the exile; while Juhani only "cares for" Revan.

3. Visas.

4. Juhani. Aside from the reasons said in 1, JUHANI HAS CLAWS THAT CAN TEAR THROUGH ANYTHING.

5. Visas.

TheExile 07-26-2008 12:27 PM

1. Juhani- more aggressive, superior strength.
2. Visas! Obvious reasons
3. Visas
4. Juhani- superior strength
5. Visas

Overall: Visas beats. She is mild in strength , but performs well in all other matters. Juhani scores high in strength, but mild in rest.

Darth_Yuthura 07-26-2008 02:24 PM

1. Juhani- Physically superior and trained to fight.
2. Visas- willing to die for the Exile without question.
3. Visas- trained in the force very well.
4. Juhani- Physically superior.
5. Visas- Simply not bound by anything other than what must be done.

I think that Juhani is the greater fighter, but Visas has talents and drive that makes her unpredictable and more difficult to defeat.

Astor 07-26-2008 05:04 PM

Quote:

1. Juhani. If all force powers are disabled, that means Visas cannot use Force Sight, which means she is REAL BLIND.
But you can't just disable the force in that way, especially as she doesn't use 'force sight'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2500884)
1. Juhani- Physically superior and trained to fight.

So is Visas. How is Juhani superior, exactly? I would have thought that being raised as a Sith would have made Visas the stronger - the way of the Sith is pain, after all, and using that pain for a better purpose.

Darth_Yuthura 07-26-2008 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astor_Kaine (Post 2500929)
So is Visas. How is Juhani superior, exactly? I would have thought that being raised as a Sith would have made Visas the stronger - the way of the Sith is pain, after all, and using that pain for a better purpose.

Juhani was trained as a guardian. Visas may have been trained to use the DS, but Juhani also had a painful history. The main reason is because Juhani was trained specificly to fight and was physically stronger.

TKA-001 07-26-2008 05:19 PM

Quote:

but Juhani also had a painful history.
How does that affect combat effectiveness?

Darth_Yuthura 07-26-2008 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2500934)
How does that affect combat effectiveness?

Anger... Drive... Determination... I believe one who has suffered through the worst life had to offer would come out stronger than one who hasn't. Of course, it's not like Visas's life was exactly comfortable either.

Astor 07-26-2008 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2500933)
Juhani was trained as a guardian. Visas may have been trained to use the DS, but Juhani also had a painful history. The main reason is because Juhani was trained specificly to fight and was physically stronger.

But Visas had a far more painful history - her entire planet was destroyed, all while she felt it through the Force.

And you should appreciate that physical size and strength is irrelevant next to the power of the Force. And physical strength means little to Jedi - look at Yoda, or Vandar - they were 3ft tall, yet they were foremost in their respective era's councils.

Darth_Yuthura 07-26-2008 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astor_Kaine (Post 2500939)
But Visas had a far more painful history - her entire planet was destroyed, all while she felt it through the Force.

And you should appreciate that physical size and strength is irrelevant next to the power of the Force. And physical strength means little to Jedi - look at Yoda, or Vandar - they were 3ft tall, yet they were foremost in their respective era's councils.

Aren't people taking this too seriously? What does it matter what I think? If you think I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. This is quite irrelevant.

If it makes you happy, then I'll say Visas.

ChAiNz.2da 07-27-2008 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astor_Kaine (Post 2500939)
But Visas had a far more painful history - her entire planet was destroyed, all while she felt it through the Force.

Juhani's planet didn't fare much better if you remember ;)
Juhani and her parents were forced to abandon it to survive.. and while not feeling it through the force, I think the aftermath of her and her race's treatment, enslavement, her father's death.. her mother's tribulations and all around hate surrounding her had to be pretty painful, especially since she grew up with it throughout her childhood. Life wasn't all ponies and rainbows for her either. :(

Think about it. Knowing your planet exists, but you can never return*. Alot of despise and hate builds up. Something you know and love, but it's just out of your grasp. Only to be overtaken by "ruffians". Then go from that to the less than ideal life she has afterwards. Imagine the torture.

Visas life wasn't much better, but nor was Juhani's. I think the 'painful history' point is rendered mute by each others own version of pain. IMO of course :)

1) Juhani - she's a Guardian, it's what they do best
2) Visas - the only reason I gave it to her is because I see the Exile getting in trouble before I see Revan in such a situation :lol:
3) Visas - no contest. Juhani is strong in heart, but weak in mind.
4) Juhani - again, no contest. Visas would be ripped to shreds.
5) Toss up - as with any Jedi battle. IF Juhani strikes faster, preferably using 'Jump' out of range of Visas force techniques. Visas is toast. If Visas gets a Force Power in, Juhani might as well kiss it good-bye.

* In all fairness, I should note that planet Cathar does get re-settled/re-claimed by the Cathar, but not in Juhani's lifetime.
As far as she knows, it's a point of no return.

Burnseyy 07-27-2008 10:02 PM

I agree with DY, that Juhani's much better at melee fighting than Visas. I mean, you broke her lightsaber in half and she fainted!

Visas, on the other hand, is very determined and dedicated to exile...
force powers? well, they're all good at that. ^^

HIGH ON PIE 14 07-28-2008 01:49 PM

My impression was that Visas was greatly weakened by Nihilus an was a shadow of her former power, her sight damaged. So no, being raised by the sith didnīt really make her stronger. If I remeber right (I could be wrong here) but didnīt Nihilus puposly keep her weak so she could not challange him?

And yes I appreciate that size and physical strength are not the deciding factor. In the game I honestly found Juhani harder top beat than Visas. As a party member I also find Juhani stronger. I would think Visas has had the harder life, but it made her weaker ratyher than stronger. IMO :)

-HOP

Burnseyy 07-28-2008 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIGH ON PIE 14 (Post 2501521)
My impression was that Visas was greatly weakened by Nihilus an was a shadow of her former power, her sight damaged. So no, being raised by the sith didnīt really make her stronger. If I remeber right (I could be wrong here) but didnīt Nihilus puposly keep her weak so she could not challange him?

And yes I appreciate that size and physical strength are not the deciding factor. In the game I honestly found Juhani harder top beat than Visas. As a party member I also find Juhani stronger. I would think Visas has had the harder life, but it made her weaker ratyher than stronger. IMO :)

-HOP

Words of truth! :xp:

MacTavish 07-28-2008 08:31 PM

1. Juhani
2. Visas, she is more loyal IMO
3. Definently Visas
4. Juhani
5. Not sure...

Salzella 08-02-2008 08:50 AM

Visas would win in every category because I like Visas and am therefore biased :)

Gurges-Ahter 08-04-2008 05:03 PM

I agree with Salzella ;)

Ignoring my bias, I'd give Juhani the advantage in any category involving combat, with lightsaber or with no weapons.

I'd give Visas the advantage in any category involving the use of force powers, including the all out battle.

bally3000 08-06-2008 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurges-Ahter (Post 2504707)
I agree with Salzella ;)

Ignoring my bias, I'd give Juhani the advantage in any category involving combat, with lightsaber or with no weapons.

I'd give Visas the advantage in any category involving the use of force powers, including the all out battle.

Me to but visas is oone of my favourite caracters in K2 and i never really enjoyed playing juhani as much as some of the others. but i really need to buy K1 and complete iit as i have borrowed it from a friend and nearly completed it on my xbox but i have an xbox 360 now and need to start it again =/ lol:lol:

Gurges-Ahter 08-06-2008 09:51 AM

Visas was my favorite party member to take along with me in K2. Once she was leveled up, she had all the force powers of Kreia.

I didn't dislike Juhani, but I only started using her when Bastila left my party and was no longer an option. I always had Jolee with me.

So yes, I definitely prefer Visas as a character, but back on topic, I'd give Juhani the edge in hand-to-hand (or saber-to-saber) combat. I'd give Visas the edge in the use of the force.

bally3000 08-06-2008 08:28 PM

I never liked kreia i don't know why but i just never used her apart from when i had no choice, i always seemed to prefer mira, Atton, handmaiden, Visas. but the force is sooooo... fun lol i love using stasis field and freezeing everybody but the person u use it on cause its funny =]

Burnseyy 08-06-2008 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bally3000 (Post 2505791)
I never liked kreia i don't know why but i just never used her apart from when i had no choice, i always seemed to prefer mira, Atton, handmaiden, Visas. but the force is sooooo... fun lol i love using stasis field and freezeing everybody but the person u use it on cause its funny =]

Eughh Visas annoyed me.
At least she was better than Kreia.

Handmaiden was quite good, (playing as a male exile) :^: a big improvement from the Disciple.

Darth_Yuthura 08-06-2008 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnseyy (Post 2505795)
Eughh Visas annoyed me.
At least she was better than Kreia.

Handmaiden was quite good, (playing as a male exile) :^: a big improvement from the Disciple.

I liked Visas because she was a unique character and an interesting LS character. Although Brianna is more common among SW characters, the Exile had to earn her trust before she could become a jedi or fall in love. Visas simply surrendered herself w/out question... I'd love to actually see that!

Burnseyy 08-06-2008 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2505849)
I liked Visas because she was a unique character and an interesting LS character. Although Brianna is more common among SW characters, the Exile had to earn her trust before she could become a jedi or fall in love. Visas simply surrendered herself w/out question... I'd love to actually see that!

:lol:

I think any girl would go for the first guy she saw, after living with Nihilus.

But ahhh well, Brianna beat her to him. :xp:

Darth_Yuthura 08-06-2008 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnseyy (Post 2505856)
:lol:

I think any girl would go for the first guy she saw, after living with Nihilus.

But ahhh well, Brianna beat her to him. :xp:

Talking to either one is like talking to a wall. They show some emotion and give words of wisdom, but don't give their lifestory. That's why I go for Juhani more than most K2 hawk crew. That actually enriched the Exile's past more than anyone else's.

Burnseyy 08-06-2008 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2505860)
Talking to either one is like talking to a wall. They show some emotion and give words of wisdom, but don't give their lifestory. That's why I go for Juhani more than most K2 hawk crew. That actually enriched the Exile's past more than anyone else's.

If you thought Brianna and Handmaiden were bad, take a look at Atton and Disciple...
But it is true that hardly any K2 characters say much - damn the creators for cutting most of it.

Gurges-Ahter 08-06-2008 10:48 PM

I really liked Brianna until Visas joined my crew. Then I dropped her like a bad habit.

bally3000 08-07-2008 06:21 AM

haha i just used both of them but i got Visas after my first planet so i was happy.

Does anyobdy else ever find it hard to pick a crew cause i like nearly everybody in the crew and find it hard to choose who too take, with me. i started to take the people who suited the place with me, like Atton for Narr Shadaar and Visas for korriban lol=].

Gurges-Ahter 08-07-2008 09:55 AM

I find it hard (to pick a crew) at times only because I always want to bring the same people, so I think I miss out on some potential dialogue with the other characters I don't bring with me. I always prefer to bring other Jedi (or force users) with me. This time (my 2nd playthrough) I will turn all of my crew into Jedi, which I didn't do during my first time through. That should make it easier to pick other characters this time.

HIGH ON PIE 14 08-07-2008 11:22 AM

I do too, at times. With K1, there is some logic in awitching party members, namely their side quests, making it reasonable to have Jolee on Manaan, or Carth on Korriban.

K2 has no real party sidequests, so I usually end up taking the same people around. I always prefered Handmaiden to Visas, and Mira is a favorite so when Iīm a male, its usually those two. In K2, I donīt care for the male party members that much: Atton was...okay at best for me, only his humor was likeable to me...Mandelore, eh liked the Candy better, and donīt even get me started on Disciple. :xp: K1 had better ones- Jolee alone owns all three of them.

I liked Bao Dur though I never really use him. If he only had more dialogue...

Actually, turning the whole crew into jedi just makes it harder to pick really. But its something you should go for every game.

-HOP

Gurges-Ahter 08-07-2008 11:29 AM

Yeah, if I knew I could have turned them all Jedi during my first playthrough I would have. I will definitely do it this time around. I mostly took Kreia with me, for her force powers, and Mira for the range ability (I was melee guardian). When I got Visas leveled up I used her instead of Kreia. The others I rarely used.

I also always had Jolee with me in K1.

HIGH ON PIE 14 08-07-2008 11:48 AM

My first playthrough, I only managed to turn Handmaiden. :lol: I donīt knoww how she was the only one, as Mira is way easier, but whatever.

Who have you already jedified Gurges-Ahter?

The party members make varying degrees of jedi, so I was wondering what level of jedi you are used to among them.

-HOP


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