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-   -   Mixing up the gameplay (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=190490)

Darca Lar 07-17-2008 11:41 AM

Mixing up the gameplay
 
Okay this may have been covered already but I started thinking more about the combat engine for the previous Knights games and came up with an idea for improvements:

Lightsabers and vibroblades are not the only weapons in the game. Blasters are used, and if theres one place I'd want to change the gameplay in, it was with the guns. I think you'd agree that M.E. had a pretty good combat engine, so why not give players that in KoTOR when using blasters. I think I'd have more fun taking out sith when using blasters if I could move my joystick to target them and pull the trigger myself than wait for the D-20 engine to calculate and decide whether or not I hit them.

The D-20 system is great, and when it comes to melee combat, I don't know what could be done to improve it or change it. I would like it to be able to control the swing of my saber. Though one way I could think of improvement is in the visuals when changing styles.

In the previous games when you'd change styles all that changed was the calculations, the visuals did not. My idea is that they take the engine from Jade Empire so that your PC changes his/her movements when fighting. Say you change from Shii Cho to Soresu, you're character would then change their stance and combat movements.

Those are just some things I've been thinking about. What are your ideas?

zemegauser 07-17-2008 01:20 PM

Oh no, that will never work. Either scrap the D20 system, or keep it. Having blasters be controlled manually, and melle weapons with D20, would make everybody use blasters.

By the way, the Jade Empire idea is great!

RyuuKage 07-17-2008 01:26 PM

I think Mass Effect's combat system would work GREAT for KotOR III. The only problem is it doesn't have any melee weapons, so the whole system would have to be revamped. Dunno how that might change it in positive or negative ways...

Master Zionosis 07-17-2008 01:28 PM

Call me old fashioned. However I don't want them to change the system. Yes it may be dated now however if they change the game mechanics it won't feel like KotOR to me. Besides there's nothing wrong with the way the game is. If it's not broken don't fix it.

Arátoeldar 07-17-2008 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Zionosis (Post 2495510)
Call me old fashioned. However I don't want them to change the system. Yes it may be dated now however if they change the game mechanics it won't feel like KotOR to me. Besides there's nothing wrong with the way the game is. If it's not broken don't fix it.

QFE

Darca Lar 07-19-2008 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Zionosis (Post 2495510)
Call me old fashioned. However I don't want them to change the system. Yes it may be dated now however if they change the game mechanics it won't feel like KotOR to me. Besides there's nothing wrong with the way the game is. If it's not broken don't fix it.

Well sure I believe that too. BUT I also believe if one does not progress, you won't get anywhere in the future. At the very least they could try out a test program before doing anything else and see how it turns out.

Master Zionosis 07-19-2008 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darca Lar (Post 2496698)
Well sure I believe that too. BUT I also believe if one does not progress, you won't get anywhere in the future. At the very least they could try out a test program before doing anything else and see how it turns out.

No, the KotOR games need to be finished the way they were made, a new system would totally ruin the feel of KotOR for me, not to mention, if they change the system, modding the game will become harder, and new tools will have to be made to mod it.

Darca Lar 07-19-2008 12:03 PM

Okay well I guess there's no swaying your opinion on the matter, but I still say that at the very least they run a small test program with an updated combat system with a handful of gamers or something and take a poll whether they prefer it or not. It wouldn't cost that much if they use the graphics engine from the previous games and a small map area.

TheExile 07-19-2008 01:55 PM

That would ROCK IMO!
But why use D20 system when you shoot? At the beginning, you have a huge croshair.
You gain more strength and feats, your croshair gets smaller, thus the weaps more accurate...
And no need t change the melee. The melee fighting animations are simply great!!!

RyuuKage 07-21-2008 12:41 AM

hmm, even tho it would be cool, zionosis has a point.

if they change the feel of the game too much, would it feel like KotOR? With modern gaming in the next-gen, just the graphical upgrade alone might change the feel of K3 (hopefully there is a K3...) significantly already.

Darca Lar 07-21-2008 02:45 AM

It might change the initial feel of it, but I think it could be a good change. The first two games were great and I still love playing them, but I would love to have full control over my PC in a fight.

Scatter 07-26-2008 09:14 AM

no. just a large emphatic NO to the crosshair idea.

if that's what you want, go play a FPS.

Ctrl Alt Del 07-26-2008 11:37 AM

Yeah, any radical change such as setting the battles that manual would ruin the game for some long-time fans.

However, that doesn't mean the system can't be changed. I've never hidden my dislike for the d20 recently. Sure, it was great and it's importance is undeniable. But it's aging, and quite fast when paired up with some most recent systems.

I believe that such a change can be made and still leave the game quite automatic to please the ones who would rather not turn the gameplay into an action game. Anyone ever saw FFXII battle system?

VanishingVision 07-26-2008 11:37 AM

Well I expect that they will have to write a new combat mechanic all together for the MMO. D20 does not do well with more than about 8 people in a 'single engagement' or a single timeline fight due to it's reliance on initiative rolls etc.

To make it work they will most likely assign a 'weapon speed' to melee weapons and a 'cast time' to certain force powers. Special attacks will most likely be largely instant and separate from weapon speed and consume a 'mana/force/fatigue' bar. That would allow every character at as a separate entity without having to stop/slow/link time like d20 does.

RyuuKage 07-26-2008 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del (Post 2500813)
Yeah, any radical change such as setting the battles that manual would ruin the game for some long-time fans.

However, that doesn't mean the system can't be changed. I've never hidden my dislike for the d20 recently. Sure, it was great and it's importance is undeniable. But it's aging, and quite fast when paired up with some most recent systems.

I believe that such a change can be made and still leave the game quite automatic to please the ones who would rather not turn the gameplay into an action game. Anyone ever saw FFXII battle system?

As long as they leave out anything like gambits (at least for the PC) that'd probably work for me.

Though personally i think i like D20 better in general.

Ctrl Alt Del 07-26-2008 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyuuKage (Post 2501014)
As long as they leave out anything like gambits (at least for the PC) that'd probably work for me.

It's perfect when you're feeling lazy. :xp:

Seriously, I can't picture myself buffering my party every half minute or so, I just use the gambits to make them cast Protect, Shell, Bravery, Faith and every other spell I find fitting for the moment automatically.

Quote:

Though personally i think i like D20 better in general.
On the past I've shown my dislike on it. You don't really have actual battles with it, much less strategies. It all resumes to attack, heal, strike again, heal if needed, victory fanfarre/game over screen.

Darca Lar 07-27-2008 01:32 AM

Another option I guess they could take is to enhance the d20 engine so it processes faster to make the combat appear seamless;and with that they should then also enhance the visuals for combat, because I tire of looking at 5-10 different random actions(guard then kick, dodge and strike at person who throws up a guard but then dies anyway) when I'm killing somebody. If you kill someone, there should be a separate set of finishing attacks like impaling or decapitation etc.

RyuuKage 07-27-2008 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del (Post 2501032)
It's perfect when you're feeling lazy. :xp:

Seriously, I can't picture myself buffering my party every half minute or so, I just use the gambits to make them cast Protect, Shell, Bravery, Faith and every other spell I find fitting for the moment automatically.

i like the gambits, just not on my main char :D...and frankly giving the option is too tempting late at night, lol.

darthclydefrog 07-29-2008 02:15 AM

The original KOTOR combat system was great...The animations however where not. There should be tons of new and fresh animations so it actually looks like a lightsaber fight, parries and blocking, really cinematic. Have the power attack animation be very different and cinematic than, lets say, a flurry animation. However, don't have the saber strike and kill until the health bar depletes. Have more of a defense meter than a health meter, when the defense meter runs out show one of 20-30 different finishers (based on class, level, skills chosen etc.)

I don't mind the D20 system, but they could make it a whole lot prettier. See Bujingai, a PS2 game that is very awesome, and very cinematic. (This is a twitch based action game that implements a defense meter.)


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