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-   -   Regarding Starkiller's Lightsaber Style (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=191419)

Ryazan 08-19-2008 02:23 PM

Regarding Starkiller's Lightsaber Style
 
The way he holds his lightsaber is known as reverse grip. It's surprisingly common in many armed physical combat styles in the real world. The explanation for Starkiller using reverse grip is simply that he prefers this style. Ahsoka Tano held her lightsaber in a similar way before she became Anakin Skywalker's Padawan. He most likely holds it this way to block blaster fire directed behind him, and he can vary easily flip it around to standard grip for combat (which he will actually do any time you attack with his saber in the game). I just thought I'd clear that up so that people can stop being pissed off/confused about his lightsaber style.

heartless 08-19-2008 05:01 PM

Reverse grip works best with short swords and knives. Longer swords, close to the size of a standard lightsaber would be harder to wield in a reverse grip. However, since these are lightsabers we're talking about, and they have a difference center of balance and different weight simply because only the hilt has weight, it might not make a difference.

The only downside of a reverse grip in this situation is that he is leaving his front undefended. Then again, he is a Force user.

Anyway, before we discuss his semi-realistic application of the reverse grip, we must first discuss Maris Brood who is using lightsaber tonfas. Anyone who has ever practiced with tonfas before will tell you that she will dismember herself within the first few seconds.

Basically, my point is that it's a game about people with magical powers, it's not meant to be realistic.

Juno Eclipse 08-19-2008 08:29 PM

The reverse grip style (Form VI) allows Jedi/Sith to more easily use Force powers

Prime 08-20-2008 09:17 AM

It's a gimic.

Jacob Nion 08-20-2008 11:00 AM

Why do you think it is a gimic? Just wondering.

Da_Man_2423 08-20-2008 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Nion (Post 2513002)
Why do you think it is a gimic? Just wondering.

It's purely aesthetic.

Jacob Nion 08-20-2008 11:54 AM

gotcha thanks.

Ryazan 08-20-2008 04:02 PM

Da_Man, it's not "purely aesthetic". He will always flip it around to fight with it, but he holds it like that to defend his rear and so that he can concentrate more on his Force powers.

Juno, Form VI is Niman. That's not a reverse grip style.

And Maris Brood is the same case as Darth Maul-she uses a style that can be extremely dangerous to untrained wielders, but she has mastered it enough to avoid this danger easily.

Ctrl Alt Del 08-20-2008 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryazan (Post 2513133)
Da_Man, it's not "purely aesthetic". He will always flip it around to fight with it, but he holds it like that to defend his rear and so that he can concentrate more on his Force powers.

That's not his point. It was meant to be this way because it looks cool. Some explanations to justify it, may be acceptable, nevertheless it was an aesthetic choice of the concept artists to begin with.

Quote:

It's surprisingly common in many armed physical combat styles in the real world
Yep, but on those fights the foe isn't normally armed with ranged weapons.

Ryazan 08-20-2008 04:31 PM

I said PHYSICAL. Meaning MELEE. Meaning NOT RANGED.

Ctrl Alt Del 08-20-2008 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryazan (Post 2513159)
I said PHYSICAL. Meaning MELEE. Meaning NOT RANGED.

I got that much. On TFU, though, the stormtroopers are armed with ranged, if you didn't noticed.

Ryazan 08-20-2008 04:57 PM

Who ever said you cant use melee combat against an opponent with ranged weapons?

*coughwinduvsfettcough*

Especially since lightsabers can deflect many ranged attacks.

heartless 08-21-2008 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryazan (Post 2513133)
Da_Man, it's not "purely aesthetic". He will always flip it around to fight with it, but he holds it like that to defend his rear and so that he can concentrate more on his Force powers.

Juno, Form VI is Niman. That's not a reverse grip style.

And Maris Brood is the same case as Darth Maul-she uses a style that can be extremely dangerous to untrained wielders, but she has mastered it enough to avoid this danger easily.

That type of a weapon would require the arms to brace the long end, where the actual lightsaber blade is, after the swing. Moreover, a lot of strikes with that type of a weapon would be done with the "butt" end of the weapon, not the blade end. Moreover, the rest of the strikes and the recovery from strikes would dismember her.

Basically, where as a double bladed lightsaber can be used to confuse your opponents and attack from unexpected sides and angles, kind of like a bo staff, a tonfa lightsaber will be very awkward to use and will be more of a hinderance than an advantage. That's my point. No advantage, plenty of disadvantages.

But again, these are people with magical powers we're talking about so all realism flies out of the window.

I do agree, however, that the reverse grip was used mainly for the coolness factor to make the character look more like a badass ninja and not because he's "guarding his back". How many jedi or sith used the reverse grip? How many have been shot in the back because of it? I've read the extended universe extensively and off the top of my head, I can't think of any. These people use the force to "feel" and predict where the attacks will be coming from. Getting shot in the back won't happen because they will feel it coming and move or use the lightsaber to deflect.

What would've been really cool, however, is if they would've allowed to change the stance depending on the situation.

Ryazan 08-21-2008 02:53 PM

For the hundredth time, he DOES change back to normal stance whenever you do anything with the saber except block. And since it's a game and he can use the Force, he can do this extremely quickly. So quickly, in fact, that he may as well have been holding the saber normally.

heartless 08-22-2008 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryazan (Post 2513606)
For the hundredth time, he DOES change back to normal stance whenever you do anything with the saber except block. And since it's a game and he can use the Force, he can do this extremely quickly. So quickly, in fact, that he may as well have been holding the saber normally.

Which basically proves the point that the developers were trying to make him look more like a super cool ninja than a jedi/sith.

Jacob Nion 08-22-2008 11:09 AM

I like the new way of holding his lightsaber brcause it is something new and fresh.

Castar 08-22-2008 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartless (Post 2513924)
Which basically proves the point that the developers were trying to make him look more like a super cool ninja than a jedi/sith.

I'm confused... since when has the Jedi vs. Sith thing been anything else than a really cool sci-fi version of the samurai vs. ninja thing?

swphreak 08-22-2008 11:24 PM

I'm pretty sure Haden Blackman or someone said in a video that they wanted Starkiller to look cool holding a lightsaber.

Da_Man_2423 08-23-2008 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarWarsPhreak (Post 2514458)
I'm pretty sure Haden Blackman or someone said in a video that they wanted Starkiller to look cool holding a lightsaber.

I think they've said it a number of times...

The idea of Starkiller holding the lightsaber backwards was for aesthetic reasons.

LordOfTheFish 08-23-2008 12:14 AM

It's pretty cool. That it also used in samurai katana moves (I know how to do it too :naughty: )

RyuuKage 08-23-2008 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castar (Post 2514159)
I'm confused... since when has the Jedi vs. Sith thing been anything else than a really cool sci-fi version of the samurai vs. ninja thing?

it's never been that either...it's been essentially samurai/sorcerer vs. samurai/sorcerer (less sorcerer in the OT films, lol) the whole time...

Ctrl Alt Del 08-23-2008 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyuuKage (Post 2514772)
it's never been that either...it's been essentially samurai/sorcerer vs. samurai/sorcerer (less sorcerer in the OT films, lol) the whole time...

I think he meant that Samurai are selfless, while the Ninjas are, uh, selfish.

LordOfTheFish 08-23-2008 06:15 PM

Ha, I get him.

RyuuKage 08-23-2008 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del (Post 2514779)
I think he meant that Samurai are selfless, while the Ninjas are, uh, selfish.

oh, well that works too...though ninja are working for the will of a lord just like samurai, lolz, they're certainly less...pleasant

LordSerion 08-25-2008 03:41 PM

Oh yeah, and the Apprantice will scream "Force Push Jutsu!"

I think he's using Form V, the Shien variation.

veridianblade 09-22-2008 05:44 AM

I'm playing the PS2 version.

Is the saber not reversed in that version?

Ctrl Alt Del 09-22-2008 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veridianblade (Post 2527954)
Is the saber not reversed in that version?

Nope, neither on the Wii.

Jeff 09-22-2008 01:25 PM

I wish he held it in reverse on the Wii version, it looks dumb when he runs holding it the way he does. Plus I do think the reverse grip looks cool.

h_34_p 10-17-2008 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryazan (Post 2513133)
Da_Man, it's not "purely aesthetic". He will always flip it around to fight with it, but he holds it like that to defend his rear and so that he can concentrate more on his Force powers.

Juno, Form VI is Niman. That's not a reverse grip style.

And Maris Brood is the same case as Darth Maul-she uses a style that can be extremely dangerous to untrained wielders, but she has mastered it enough to avoid this danger easily.

Actually juno is right, it's called a reverse grip style, or shien. He usually doesn't flip it around, except in the psp version where only holds the lightsaber like that if he stands still for a while, but I don't know about the Wii.

LordOfTheFish 10-17-2008 01:54 PM

It's not reversed in the Wii, and I think we already established it was "shien" style. Still, nobody seems to like it...

Oh, and welcome to Lucas Forums!

Zerimar Nyliram 10-17-2008 04:30 PM

I like it... :(

LordOfTheFish 10-17-2008 07:51 PM

As do I, it brings a "uniqueness" not many Jedi/Sith have.

Rabish Bini 10-17-2008 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordOfTheFish (Post 2539964)
It's not reversed in the Wii, and I think we already established it was "shien" style. Still, nobody seems to like it...

Oh, and welcome to Lucas Forums!

I love it, reminds me of Gray Fox/Frank Jaeger/Cyborg Ninja (he has many names) from the first Metal Gear Solid, it kicks ass.

LordOfTheFish 10-17-2008 10:31 PM

It's very similar to a samurai sword stance known as Dragonfly.

Ctrl Alt Del 10-17-2008 10:33 PM

Meh, it's simply shien (or maybe it's just how a ninja is supposed to hold his small curved sword).

LordSerion 11-01-2008 11:06 AM

Shien technique, but not the style of the same name. Besides, from what I've seen so far, he uses Form III and VII as well.

Juno Eclipse 11-01-2008 01:41 PM

In the Wii version you can just stand still and eventually he will turn the saber into a reverse grip. If you then continue to just use lightsaber combos that involve more than four or five hits, he keeps it in that same grip.


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