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-   -   [WIP] Mission Vao as...the Exile (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=191910)

Ferc Kast 09-03-2008 10:10 PM

Mission Vao as...the Exile
 
The other day when I was bored (Yes; I know. I shouldn't be bored if I have a couple other WIPs to work on. :xp:) , I decided that I wanted to do a random skin. I looked through the heads in TSL's assets & in appearance.2da; Without word or warning, I decided to make Mission Vao to be a playable Exile. I still have to do a few skins & portraits, but I thought that I had made enough progress to show her off as a WIP. :^:


So, here is her default head:
http://b.imagehost.org/0918/guess_who.png

I based the skin tone & lips color on the texture for Mission in K1. Though, I used the regular Twi'lek model for it.

Release date, you ask? :wid:

DeadYorick 09-04-2008 12:11 AM

It vaguely reminds me of Mission but still doesn't look like her. I suggest lightening up her skin tone a little and making her face look a little more... young. Mission was 14 in Kotor and this Twi-lek looks much older then her

e-varmint 09-04-2008 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RakataDark (Post 2520983)
It vaguely reminds me of Mission but still doesn't look like her. I suggest lightening up her skin tone a little and making her face look a little more... young. Mission was 14 in Kotor and this Twi-lek looks much older then her

I was thinking the same thing at first, but then it occurred to me that she is several years older by the time TSL takes place. It would really be interesting to see some of the other characters aged a little for TSL. I'm still miffed that they did not bring Jolee back as a prominent TSL character.

Anyway, I would love to see an older Zaalbar to go with her. Maybe he could replace the irritating Goto.......

[/shameless hint]

That was a rambling way of saying: I like it! Nice Job!

Inyri 09-04-2008 01:01 AM

What is it between KotOR and TSL, 5 years? I think according to this mod Mission gained more like 15. ;)

Also, 5 years to a Wookiee is nothing. Zaalbar would probably not look any older.

rictus135 09-04-2008 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2521016)
What is it between KotOR and TSL, 5 years? I think according to this mod Mission gained more like 15. ;)

Also, 5 years to a Wookiee is nothing. Zaalbar would probably not look any older.

I agree, but then it's not my mod!

Istorian 09-04-2008 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2521016)
What is it between KotOR and TSL, 5 years? I think according to this mod Mission gained more like 15. ;)

Also, 5 years to a Wookiee is nothing. Zaalbar would probably not look any older.

Inyri has a point and I agree with him. Now, the mod is very interesting, and you could make it complete by adding Zaalbar as e-var said!;)

Great progress till now, Ferc, this mod is a sure hit before it's even done!:D

|I|

Ferc Kast 09-04-2008 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2521016)
What is it between KotOR and TSL, 5 years? I think according to this mod Mission gained more like 15. ;)

Also, 5 years to a Wookiee is nothing. Zaalbar would probably not look any older.

What, and Lena was 29 in KotOR I? 'Cause Mission looks (roughly) the age of Lena with my skin. IIRC, Lena was younger than 29.

@Everyone Else: Thanks for the wonderful feedback. :D

Arátoeldar 09-04-2008 10:05 AM

She looks fine so long as Twiliks age at the same rate as humans.

She looks like she late teens - early twenties.

Ferc Kast 09-04-2008 12:38 PM

Well, I just had my first go at her only DS Transition (Sith eyes):

Darth Mission

I'm not sure if I like it yet or not; But, it's what I have for her Sith eyes (for now, at least). Thought I'd share that little update. :^:

Darth Payne 09-04-2008 12:41 PM

Ehh, they look like brown eyes to me.

Endorenna 09-04-2008 12:49 PM

I like this mod! Mission always was one of my favorites :).

The red eyes are a good touch.

rictus135 09-04-2008 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferc Kast (Post 2521102)
What, and Lena was 39 in KotOR I? 'Cause Mission looks (roughly) the age of Lena with my skin. IIRC, Lena was much younger than 39.

I think your maths is a little faulty. 14+15=29 not 39! And she should only look 19.

It's not that she looks too old perhaps, but too mature. Sure she isn't a kid anymore, but you would think she would retain some of her mischeivous qualities, and they just don't show in that face IMO.

To be fair it could just be the model not the skin.

Edit: Maybe try arching the eybrows a little and giving her mouth a bit more of a smile. It might make her look a litle less serious.

Darth Payne 09-04-2008 01:18 PM

Or, Mission has had a very hard life in the 5 years since the first game.

e-varmint 09-04-2008 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Payne (Post 2521193)
Or, Mission has had a very hard life in the 5 years since the first game.

The brutal captivity by Trandoshan Slavers. The daring escape. The desperate mercenary years. The torrid romance (after age 18, of course). The bitter rivalry that developed between Zaalbar and Hanharr. That'll add ten years to anyone:D

Ferc Kast 09-04-2008 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rictus135 (Post 2521181)
To be fair it could just be the model not the skin.

Edit: Maybe try arching the eybrows a little and giving her mouth a bit more of a smile. It might make her look a litle less serious.

1) TBH, it could be that... nvm; I don't want to finish that sentence, to avoid digging a pit for myself. :indif:
2) So, I'm supposed to edit the model to have her smile all the time? 'Cause the expressions of any head model (PC or non-PC) can change from second to second. :) As for the eyebrows, they're exactly where the other female Twi'lek eyebrows are. So, I don't think I'll be changing that either.

No offense intended, of course.

Rachel_Ewok 09-04-2008 05:26 PM

Instead of replacing G0-T0, couldn't you just make a 'puppet' Zaalbaar, like Bao's remote?

It would be kinda almost cheating with a wookie and two other characters along with Mission during gameplay... But then you wouldn't have to replace any party members.

Ferc Kast 09-04-2008 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel_Ewok (Post 2521328)
Instead of replacing G0-T0, couldn't you just make a 'puppet' Zaalbaar, like Bao's remote?

It would be kinda almost cheating with a wookie and two other characters along with Mission during gameplay... But then you wouldn't have to replace any party members.

I'm confused. :confused: This is just a mod that'll restore Mission to TSL as a PC.

While I'm posting anyway, (props to TG for fixing the "brown"), here is the final version of the Sith Eyes:
Evil Mission Exile

Inyri 09-04-2008 05:40 PM

Sith Eyes:
http://www.tutorials-photoshop.com/p...sitheyes07.jpg

Notice the difference between that and what you've got.

TriggerGod 09-04-2008 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2521337)
Sith Eyes:
http://www.tutorials-photoshop.com/p...sitheyes07.jpg

Notice the difference between that and what you've got.

Ferc personally likes to make his own variations of "Sith Eyes." (I should know. I'm usually the one who fixes the eyes to make them better) I have both images open in Firefox, and, other then the yellow being slightly darker, there really isn't that much of a difference.

Inyri 09-04-2008 05:56 PM

Other than the fact that they still look brown (if slightly more orange) in game and don't look terrifying in the least. :)

TriggerGod 09-04-2008 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2521343)
Other than the fact that they still look brown (if slightly more orange) in game and don't look terrifying in the least. :)

IMO, Sith Eyes aren't meant to be terrifing. When I watched RotJ, and saw the Sith eyes, I didn't feel anything. When I saw Anakin's sith eyes, I felt not much TBH.
Now, the direction that Obsidian and Bioware took Darkside Transitions was a good one on the road to "scariness."

Inyri 09-04-2008 06:01 PM

They do still look very brown in-game. There's not enough contrast between the red and the yellow.

Rachel_Ewok 09-04-2008 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferc Kast (Post 2521333)
I'm confused. :confused: This is just a mod that'll restore Mission to TSL as a PC.

While I'm posting anyway, (props to TG for fixing the "brown"), here is the final version of the Sith Eyes:
Evil Mission Exile


Oh right, I got confused... You couldn't give her a puppet, because she's the PC... Right, sorry 'bout that... I was thinking Zaalbaar... Mission... I don't know. XD

TriggerGod 09-04-2008 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2521350)
They do still look very brown in-game. There's not enough contrast between the red and the yellow.

I (reluctantly) agree that, it does appear to be a bit too... orangish (not brown ;)) so, I updated the tga file with more yellow eyes. Hopefully, they'll look better. If not, I'm good with more tweaking.

Inyri 09-04-2008 06:24 PM

If you keep having trouble post the skinmap.

Inyri 09-04-2008 07:20 PM

Fine, then you won't get any help. A "thanks but we're alright" would've sufficed, though.

jonathan7 09-04-2008 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriggerGod (Post 2521371)
I(we) don't need any help. If I(we) did, we most certainly would post a jpg version of our texture, but, we are just fine.

Do you have any idea of what Holowan is for; if you post a WIP thread expect people to post opinions and suggest improvements - else if that's not what your wanting, why bother posting a WIP thread? :confused:

Inyri 09-04-2008 07:29 PM

Also, Ferc:
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/ima...ion_ingame.jpg

So let's say Mission aged 5 years. Her lips need to be more pink and less red (think more natural, less street walker), her eyebrows are much thinner, and she has some pink tones in her skin (which on the whole is a much lighter blue than yours except in the shadows). Remember, blue twi'lek != Mission Vao. If you want a real likeness you're going to have to go further. :)

Ferc Kast 09-04-2008 07:53 PM

Holy off-topicness, Batman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan7 (Post 2521378)
Do you have any idea of what Holowan is for; if you post a WIP thread expect people to post opinions and suggest improvements - else if that's not what your wanting, why bother posting a WIP thread? :confused:

To let people know what I'm up to. I mean, what other possible reason could there be other than to show off your work?

Anyways... Back on topic.
New Sith Eyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2521383)
Also, Ferc:
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/ima...ion_ingame.jpg

So let's say Mission aged 5 years. Her lips need to be more pink and less red (think more natural, less street walker), her eyebrows are much thinner, and she has some pink tones in her skin (which on the whole is a much lighter blue than yours except in the shadows). Remember, blue twi'lek != Mission Vao. If you want a real likeness you're going to have to go further. :)

Umm... I took the lips color directly from the K1 Mission, using the color grabber tool. I took the eyebrow length from the original female twi'lek texture. Again, I took her skin tone from the K1 Mission, using the color grabber tool.

So, it's entirely realistic. If you don't think so, you don't have to use this mod. But, I'm not going to let my thread just turning to spam about how "blue twi'lek != Mission Vao". I appreciate advice where it is relevant.

Inyri 09-04-2008 07:56 PM

Your problem is you think color grabber = accurate. Sure it's accurate -- for that pixel. You need to expand your thinking a little and realize that textures are not one flat color. They have shadows and hilights (and often times the shadows and hilights have hints of other colors in them -- shadows are often more blue while hilights are often pinker, even if just subtly).

And for the records, "blue twi'lek != Mission Vao" is not spam -- it is an accurate representation of the truth. I advise you to listen to the advice of modders who have several times more experience than yourself, otherwise I think you'll find in the future that we'll be unwilling to help you when (you think) you actually need it.

Jae Onasi 09-04-2008 08:06 PM

The criticism, as far as I can tell in this thread, has been both constructive and useful. TriggerGod, if you don't want constructive criticism or help, don't post in Holowan. This is Ferc's thread anyway--it's up to him to decide if someone provides help or not. Off-topic posts have been deleted.

Rogue Nine 09-04-2008 08:08 PM

I know next to nothing about modding, but even I can tell that this looks nothing like Mission.

Observe:

http://b.imagehost.org/0918/guess_who.png vs. http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/st...nfulltaris.jpg

The skin is too dark (probably picked a dark pixel there), her lips are too red (again, dark pixel), her nose is too wide and the wrong shape, her eyebrows are too thick, there is no outline around the eyes and the facial structure, especially around the lines of the mouth and chin are all wrong.

It seriously just looks like you took a blue Twi'lek skin and decided to call her Mission without even trying to make her look like the character, so I'm not sure why you're turning down good advice. Seems counter-intuitive to me to start a WIP and not know how to take helpful criticism. :confused:

Ferc Kast 09-04-2008 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Nine (Post 2521406)
I know next to nothing about modding, but even I can tell that this looks nothing like Mission.

Observe:

http://b.imagehost.org/0918/guess_who.png vs. http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/st...nfulltaris.jpg

The skin is too dark (probably picked a dark pixel there), her lips are too red (again, dark pixel), her nose is too wide and the wrong shape, her eyebrows are too thick, there is no outline around the eyes and the facial structure, especially around the lines of the mouth and chin are all wrong.

It seriously just looks like you took a blue Twi'lek skin and decided to call her Mission without even trying to make her look like the character, so I'm not sure why you're turning down good advice. Seems counter-intuitive to me to start a WIP and not know how to take helpful criticism. :confused:

I had Mission's K1 texture open as my only guide when doing this; And, I even started with a green female Twi'lek skin. As for the facial structure, it is because of the female Twi'lek head model. (Something beyond the control of any modder). The skin is not too dark; I made sure of that, as too I did with the lips. The eyebrows are as thick as they are for any of the other female Twi'lek heads; Again, beyond the control of any modder.

Again, I started with a green female Twi'lek as my base texture. I did the best that anyone could possibly do to make her look like Mission. I don't turn down good advice; I turn down advice that is not relevant or is redundant. (Again, because I did the best that any "honest" modder could do.) Again, "helpfulness" is relative to the advice. (Which, again, I filter the good advice while I ignore the redundant & irrelevant advice.)


Anyways, my next step is the portrait-making. :^: After that, I still have a couple skins to do in order to make her be like a normal female Exile...

El Sitherino 09-04-2008 08:39 PM

That's the same facial structure.

You need to paint better.

Inyri 09-04-2008 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferc Kast (Post 2521415)
I had Mission's K1 texture open as my only guide when doing this;

Problem number 1.

Quote:

And, I even started with a green female Twi'lek skin.
So?

Quote:

As for the facial structure, it is because of the female Twi'lek head model. (Something beyond the control of any modder).
Not really, unless there's something wrong with how Taina's Replacer treats that head. In any case whether or not the facial structure is appropriate is fairly irrelevant (which is why I didn't mention it).

Quote:

The skin is not too dark;
Yes it is.

Quote:

I made sure of that, as too I did with the lips.
The lips are too dark, the wrong color, and don't blend in with the rest of the skin like Mission's lips do.

Quote:

The eyebrows are as thick as they are for any of the other female Twi'lek heads;
Which is all fine and dandy for them, but as you yourself mentioned you are not making "any of the other female Twi'lek heads," you are making Mission Vao. Judging from her KotOR head she plucks her eyebrows. She wouldn't stop doing that just because... well you haven't given an explanation for that.

Quote:

Again, beyond the control of any modder.
Uh, no. The eyebrows are painted on, not modeled on. Paint her some new ones. :)

Quote:

Again, I started with a green female Twi'lek as my base texture.
Green, purple, polka dot, it's still not an excuse for the head not looking as it's supposed to.

Quote:

I did the best that anyone could possibly do to make her look like Mission.
Don't speak for everyone here. I'm sure there are a fair amount of modders who would claim they could make a better likeness out of the same things you started with.

Quote:

I don't turn down good advice;
Yes you did.

Quote:

I turn down advice that is not relevant or is redundant.
It was neither redundant nor irrelevant.

Quote:

(Again, because I did the best that any "honest" modder could do.)
"Honest"? It's not like we asked you to rob a bank. We just gave you suggestions on how to make the head look better.

Quote:

Again, "helpfulness" is relative to the advice. (Which, again, I filter the good advice while I ignore the redundant & irrelevant advice.)
You ignore all advice given to you that suggests your mods aren't amazing, it seems.

Honestly, you could do with a reality check. Please leave your ego at the door.

If you want to be a good modder, take advice. Don't fling it back at the people who've given it to you. The rest of us are tired of seeing self-centered modders who think they know everything (which is why we're trying to help you).

But I'm sure I don't speak for just myself when I say we'll be happy to leave you alone if you'd like.

jonathan7 09-04-2008 09:32 PM

Right, I'm arriving to correct a few fallacies that have been banded about...

Ferc, I think your are a talented modder, however, frankly this took me 20 mins - now which looks more like Mission? Your big problem is trying to cut corners, and not taking time over things IMHO - and you shoot yourself in the foot as I know you can do quality work - but I have to ask if this took me 20 mins to make more like Mission than the above why are you getting offended by people telling you that the above blue Twilek doesn't look like mission?

As for not being able to change eyebrows... Please...

http://www.lucasforums.com/picture.p...pictureid=1718

Boba Rhett 09-04-2008 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferc Kast (Post 2521401)
To let people know what I'm up to. I mean, what other possible reason could there be other than to show off your work?


...To get feedback as too how you can vastly improve upon your work. Duuuuuh?



And non editable eyebrows? What? Why do you have such a maverick opposition to any and all forms of constructive criticism?

ChAiNz.2da 09-04-2008 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferc Kast (Post 2521415)
I had Mission's K1 texture open as my only guide when doing this; And, I even started with a green female Twi'lek skin. As for the facial structure, it is because of the female Twi'lek head model.

Heya Ferc,

Have you tried using one of the Twin Sister models as your base? The one with the solid cap worked really well for me when I was working on a custom mod for myself. She also has a flesh toned skin which reacts to lighting and highlights much easier.. Mission has a really 'bright' face so the pale base really helped out. Color match (no grabber) and you should (or could, no pressure :) ) get a very close facsimile of Mission.

For some reason the Twin Sister head just reacted much better with my experiments (could be a placebo effect though since they have skimpier clothing :xp: )

If you give your new Mission a little blush across her cheeks nose and chin.. and 'shape' her lips with a dark outline.. and splash a few very light freckles and I guarantee you'll be happier. Though it'll require more .2da messing should you want her to wear robes rather than the leather outfit ;)

I have a few screenies if you want to see them, just ask. I don't want to divert your project any further though. Good luck no matter which route you take :)

Ferc Kast 09-04-2008 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan7 (Post 2521439)
Right, I'm arriving to correct a few fallacies that have been banded about...

Ferc, I think your are a talented modder, however, frankly this took me 20 mins - now which looks more like Mission? Your big problem is trying to cut corners, and not taking time over things IMHO - and you shoot yourself in the foot as I know you can do quality work - but I have to ask if this took me 20 mins to make more like Mission than the above why are you getting offended by people telling you that the above blue Twilek doesn't look like mission?

As for not being able to change eyebrows... Please...

http://www.lucasforums.com/picture.p...pictureid=1718

Cut corners? If I was doing that, I'd have taken one of the 2 K2 blue twi'lek skins and called it Mission. This is...:cry8:...honestly...my best 2nd most quality work & people go so far as to call it a "paint job"? I earned this WIP by "the sweat of [my] brow". And, people to even go to name-calling? 'Cuz that's real mature. :rolleyes: As to being self-centered, I am so self-centered that I only care for/about others.

I might as well start over on this or give up modding entirely. Those are the only options I can see from my perspective. (And, don't think to call me a drama king; Because I am just expressing my true feelings/thoughts.)


EDIT: @ChainZ - Sure; Love to see it.

DeadYorick 09-04-2008 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan7 (Post 2521439)
Right, I'm arriving to correct a few fallacies that have been banded about...

Ferc, I think your are a talented modder, however, frankly this took me 20 mins - now which looks more like Mission? Your big problem is trying to cut corners, and not taking time over things IMHO - and you shoot yourself in the foot as I know you can do quality work - but I have to ask if this took me 20 mins to make more like Mission than the above why are you getting offended by people telling you that the above blue Twilek doesn't look like mission?

As for not being able to change eyebrows... Please...

Very nicely done Jonathan. The only differences I see are that the lips are just slightly a little more red (Since the lips here are completely blue) and the texture around her mouth is a little bit lighter. Otherwise a very good mission skin


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