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thundrfang1 09-26-2008 07:53 PM

Anakin vs. Revan
 
Who do you think would win in a fight, Anakin or Revan? Anakin is not at full potential. He is only at the potential that he is in in episode 3.

Scenario 1: Lightsabers only. No melee, blasters, or force powers.

Scenario 2: War. Anakin controls the Imperial Army (including the Death Star 2), and Revan controls the Star Forges sith army.

Scenario 3: Force battle. Force powers only.

Scenario 4: Padme is being held hostage by Revan, and Bastilla is being held hostage by Anakin.

Scenario 5: All out battle. Fight to the death. Each uses whatever needed to win (except their army).

Ok, thats about it. Guive reasons and let the battle begin!

knight 12167 09-26-2008 07:58 PM

in scenario 1 anikin would probably win

2 revan because he would have sith allies

3 revan

4 probably would end in a stalemate

5 anikin with te might of the imps

SW01 09-26-2008 08:34 PM

Just to point out first that Anakin was at the apex of his potential in Ep.3 - his defeat rendered him a shadow of his former self.

That said, on to the scenarios:

1. It is difficult to say, as Revan is never properly seen in full Ep.3-style combat...I might have to say Anakin, as he is a Jedi Guardian.

2. I say Revan. On production and sheer firepower, both sides would probably be evenly matched, but Revan was a tactician while Vader and the Empire used brute force.

3. Revan, as the 'heart of the force'

4. Anakin, as his love for Amidala was the reason for his fall - her wellbeing was all that drove him to the dark.

5. Much as I would like to say the Empire, Revan would likely triumph as the master tactician. Ep.6 showed that tactics could overwhelm the Empire.

Endorenna 09-26-2008 11:05 PM

1. Since I've never seen Revan in all-out battle with a lightsaber, I can't really say. Keep in mind that both Anakin and Revan have had to fight in massive battles against multiple lightsaber-wielding opponents and succeeded. It would probably be a stalemate.

2. Revan would wipe the general galactic floor with Anakin and Palpatine. The Death Star's a great asset, but it's slow, and all it really does is fire a big gun. The Star Forge, on the other hand, is producing thousands of ships at any given moment. The Death Star could probably be destroyed with the fighter squadrons alone, not to mention the flagships! Revan wins.

3. Anakin DS vs. Revan LS=Anakin wins.
Anakin LS vs. Revan DS=Revan wins.
Anakin DS vs. Revan DS=Both are dead.
Anakin LS vs. Revan LS=Battle that never ends 'cuz neither one can use any offensive Force Powers! :lol:

4. Anakin loved Padme so deeply that he betrayed the Jedi, the Republic, Obi-wan, everything he ever believed in. Revan and Bastilla's relationship never seemed to be quite that serious to me. Anakin wins hands down.

5. Both dead.

Saber-Scorpion 09-27-2008 04:16 AM

iWell here goes

1. As stated above we have never seen Revan in lightsaber combat for all we could now he could have been the best lightsaber duelist ever but as goes i Anakin was a great lightsaber duelist but i would say they would be just like Barbossa states in Pirates Are we to be two immortals locked in an epic battle until Judgment Day and trumpets sound? this is an example of how it would turn out as we don't know how good Revan was so i say draw

2.I do agree here Darth Vader or Anakin used brute force and Revan used tatics as well the death star was quite awesome but it not really so much a giant space station with the ability to destroy a planet of course they could shoot down the Star Forge but i still vote for Revan here in a fight between intelligence and strenght it's intelligence who wins

3.Now Revan is said to be the most powerful force user of his time almost 4000 thousand years before anakin and the thing that revan was heart of the force was just how kreia would describe Revan but if you think of it after 4000 years even a kid could probably have more force potential then Revan and as stated Anakin was the chosen one it's more fitting to call him the heart of the force since he would have been the most powerful force user in history he has higher midclhorian count than Revan.
and before you start arguing the reason we think revan as more powerfull is because we made the charater to fit like we want it

4. oh come on this is can't be done it would just end with all of them dead we can't do this we know that anakin love padme with all of his life and we don't know with Revan and Bastila since we didn't see it go any further than what we saw in KOToR for all we know they could have married and had lot's of jedi children.

5.This is like scenario 2 in a way so but in this one it would be draw come if you do it like this nobody is going to win the scenario would look like this if you ask me they would fight and fight until they became half- senile and forgot why they were fighting each other and then they would either die by old age, bounty hunters or someone like nihilus.

phew i am done and quite proud fo this but it's what i think would happen

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 09-27-2008 05:22 AM

hmm, i dispute the fact that anakin is at his full potential in ep3.
because, he only just turned to the dark side. look at yoda. anakin had more midichlorians than him but yoda was definitely stronger because of his 900 years experience and wisdom, etc. (palpatine tried to run from him. and i think if he wasnt blasted off that ledge, he would have beat sidious eventually)
i think that if obiwan didnt dice anakin, and anakin went on to study at the hands of sidious for years, becoming stronger, learning all those secrets of the dark side, he would have become the single most powerful being to ever have lived in sw history. (makes sense, yes?)
also, thundrfang, you havnt specified which revan we are talking about. is it the revanchist? darth revan right before amnesia, post amnesiac kotor 1 revan, or revan in the unknown regions.

i'd put revanchist at about kavar's level. darth revan: somewhere around sidious (this is the revan that taught bane. he knew stuff that even darth bane thought was too terrible to try. if unleashing a *thought bomb* was fine for bane to do, imagine that other stuff:eyepop: ). k1 revan was a bit stronger than that. and unknown region revan: i dont know. but id think that, being quote from malak, "..stronger than you were in your reign as the dark lord...", and then regaining his lost memory, *and* learning stuff at malachor after that, i think he might even be around yoda level.
he might even grow three foot high spiky blonde hair and scream with everything he does.:lol: *kidding*

Corinthian 09-27-2008 05:31 AM

Scenario 1: Lightsabers only. No melee, blasters, or force powers.

Vader probably wins. He IS the Chosen One, and his mastery of Djem So was capable of thrashing Count Dooku. He was pivotal in the extermination of the Jedi Order. There's no reason to believe that Revan was anything special as a Duelist.

Scenario 2: War. Vader controls the Imperial Army (including the Death Star 2), and Revan controls the Star Forges sith army.

Come on, this isn't even a challenge. Vader has the Death Star 2, which is effectively invincible, a four thousand year head start technologically, 25,000 Imperial-Class Star Destroyers, the entire former fleet of the Grand Army of the Republic, and everything else. One shot from the Death Star II would turn the Star Forge into ash, and after that it would be a mopup operation.

Scenario 3: Force battle. Force powers only.

Vader. Chosen One. He's considered to be the most powerful Jedi ever in terms of raw power.

Scenario 4: Padme is being held hostage by Revan, and Bastilla is being held hostage by Vader.

Wouldn't ever happen. Vader would never hold Bastila hostage. He'd either turn her to the Dark Side (Again), torture her until she gave them the location of the hidden rebel base, or break her neck. As for if Revan had Padme, Vader would suffer a nervous breakdown and blow up everything in the room.

Scenario 5: Vader, again. One of the premier swordsmen in the Jedi Order and only topped by masters like Windu, Yoda, Sidious, and Kenobi, indisputably the most powerful Jedi in terms of raw power, and brutal. Revan would probably realize he was outmatched in single combat and retreat and try to kill Vader as he made orbit.

Rabish Bini 09-27-2008 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SW01 (Post 2529969)
Just to point out first that Anakin was at the apex of his potential in Ep.3 - his defeat rendered him a shadow of his former self.

That said, on to the scenarios:

1. It is difficult to say, as Revan is never properly seen in full Ep.3-style combat...I might have to say Anakin, as he is a Jedi Guardian.

2. I say Revan. On production and sheer firepower, both sides would probably be evenly matched, but Revan was a tactician while Vader and the Empire used brute force.

3. Revan, as the 'heart of the force'

4. Anakin, as his love for Amidala was the reason for his fall - her wellbeing was all that drove him to the dark.

5. Much as I would like to say the Empire, Revan would likely triumph as the master tactician. Ep.6 showed that tactics could overwhelm the Empire.

Agreed, my answers exactly.
Although, just to point out no. 5, there may not be time to use tactics, unless a fight to the death lasts a loooooong time.

thundrfang1 09-27-2008 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian (Post 2530148)
Vader probably wins. He IS the Chosen One, and his mastery of Djem So was capable of thrashing Count Dooku. He was pivotal in the extermination of the Jedi Order. There's no reason to believe that Revan was anything special as a Duelist.

That's true, but there is a possibility of Revan being the Sith'ari.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian (Post 2530148)
Vader. Chosen One. He's considered to be the most powerful Jedi ever in terms of raw power.

But Revan's also "the heart of the force".

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 09-28-2008 03:34 AM

Quote:

Scenario 1: Lightsabers only. No melee, blasters, or force powers.

Vader probably wins. He IS the Chosen One, and his mastery of Djem So was capable of thrashing Count Dooku. He was pivotal in the extermination of the Jedi Order. There's no reason to believe that Revan was anything special as a Duelist.
vader slaughtered all the jedi in the temple with a bunch of troops behind.
revan slaughtered every dark jedi that came his way in the star forge with two party members, after which he defeated two dark lords singlehandedly. id say those are even feats there.
But then we dont know much about revan's dueling proficiency. he was above average at pretty much everything so chances are he would be a fairly good duelist.
if revan used jar'kai as implied in concept art and k2, that would NOT be a good idea vs vader's djem so.
can someone tell me what is that stance that revan assumes right before his fight vs bastila's jedi strike team on his flagship?
sidious uses a similar pose when he starts his duel vs the jedi masters in ep3. i dont know what it is.

Quote:

Scenario 3: Force battle. Force powers only.

Vader. Chosen One. He's considered to be the most powerful Jedi ever in terms of raw power.
thats exactly it: RAW power. both were extremely gifted in terms of force, anakin being stronger in terms of raw power, but its like a really big, muscly grunt whos beaten up his fair share vs a kung fu master. the brute would do something like throw a heavy punch at the master. the master would do something like, quickly redirect the punch outwards, after which he would then jab at some exposed pressure point to stun the brute, quickly kick the brute behind his legs, bringing him to his knees, smash his elbow on the brute's neck/shoulder, and then hook the brute's neck in his arm in a sleeper hold, after which its lights out for the brute.
likewise, revan would have far more advanced force abilities than anakin.
unlike anakin, revan had access to the jedi archives, and he studied juicy sith secrets at trayus. and who knows what he learned while romping around the galaxy in the mando wars as the revanchist.(Stuff like that was his thing) i have no doubt he would know some of those "techniques within the force against which there is no defense".
and also, anakin was a guardian focusing on saber dueling. and in ep3, he hasnt had the chance to learn sith stuff from palpatine yet.
basicly, in ep3, anakin has only just turned to the dark side, revelling in the new ability to unleash his dark emotions and stuff. but revan can do that, and more, having more experience. basicly, in ep3, vader is a dark side 'newborn' who hasnt yet moved on to the higher mysteries of the dark side.
(heh, that sounds like a verse in the Bible...;P)


Quote:

That's true, but there is a possibility of Revan being the Sith'ari.
so does vader. but *i* firmly believe the sith'ari is revan's student, Darth Bane.

adamqd 09-28-2008 03:55 AM

I dont see any evidence that Anakin is all powerful with the force despite George's say so, the Films depict Jedi of his time as more like a galactic police force who can jump high and have a small amount of telekinesis, and even if GL means his level of force powers to be more of a "The force is with him" type deal, his life was nothing but pain, limb-loss, heartache, betrayel, Immolation and servitude, the force wasn't really looking out for him IMO, but as regards to lightsaber Dueling and fighting for Padme I think he'd beat most people, but a Force power battle, I dont think so.

Darth Hord 09-28-2008 09:13 AM

1. Sabers- I'm giving this to ROTS Anakin, the way overwhelmed Dooku(who himself was one of the greatest duelists ever) and as the novel put it "even his(Dooku) knowledge of the force has become a joke." As for Revan's saber skills we don't know much about them. We know he cut off Malak's jaw and ended up killing Malak in a saber duel (based on Duron's vision) but that's about it. He was most likely the best of his time but we don't know which saber style he preferred. Anakin wins probably with some difficulty.

2.War- I believe this battle could go either way if the imperials find the star forge then it is all over for Revan imo. Anakin's forces have a 4,000 year tech advantage which will come into play. Besides the death star 2 the imperial navy has numerous super star destroyers besides the Executor. Another factor here is the the admirals below Revan and Anakin. While these two maybe in charge of their navies then need competent men below them, Anakin would probably have Thrawn, Revan would have? I would also like to point out that just because the star forge can make an "infinite number" of ships, Revan still needs manpower to operate them as there is no evidence to support any theory of droids controlling ships in Revan's navy so that is another advantage to Anakin is manpower. Actually I'm leaning towards Anakin for the reasons above but I will state that if they had equal number of ships,manpower,supplies and both are the heads of a single fleet (not the head of the whole navy which is why I made reference to their subordinates such as Thrawn being an admiral int he imperial navy during the battle of endor though he wasnt present for the battle) then Revan would win because he is a superior tactician.

3.Force only- Revan has the advantage in every was save for raw power(anakin was created by the force) He has a much broader knowledge of the force and has demonstrated more then the standard abilities Anakin has demonstrated.

4. Don't care

5. All Out- Basically this comes to down to this. If Anakin get Revan in a prolonged lightsaber then he wins. If Revan came create some distance to use the force effectively then he wins. That said I'd give the edge to Revan, he wins about a majority of the all out fights ( if it were out of 10) with difficulty.

TheExile 09-28-2008 10:21 AM

1) It's pretty hard, but, in Star Wars Expanded Universe, Boba Fett actually duels Vader with lightsabers, and he actually matches Vader skills with his strength, ferocity, and willpower. Revan has these things, and even more he is trained with a saber.

So maybe Revan or a draw.


2) Revan! Actually, just with only the Sith Armie, no Star Forge, Revan would still win, because, as stated above, Revan is a formidable tactician and the Empire used brute force.

3)Revan. He holds ancient knowledge that Vader has no clue about!
There are few powers that are used in New Republic Era, compared to the Old Republic Era. So Revan would probably win.

4)Anakin. Reasons stated above.

5) I think Revan would win, or maybe a draw.
Again, Revan uses his brains both light and dark side, while Anakin is known for becoming angry and loosing his focus in a heavy battle. But, thats the reason he killed Dooku.

Anyway, Revan is over Anakin imo.

Endorenna 09-28-2008 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Hord (Post 2530646)
2.War- I believe this battle could go either way if the imperials find the star forge then it is all over for Revan imo. Anakin's forces have a 4,000 year tech advantage which will come into play.

The 4,000 year old tech could destroy a planet. Remember Han in ANH? ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheExile (Post 2530668)
1) It's pretty hard, but, in Star Wars Expanded Universe, Boba Fett actually duels Vader with lightsabers, and he actually matches Vader skills with his strength, ferocity, and willpower. Revan has these things, and even more he is trained with a saber.

(sigh) In Star Wars EU, Darth Maul also didn't die when he fell down the three thousand foot deep reactor shaft, which probably had a very big, bad generator at the bottom of it...

Boba Fett couldn't win a lightsaber fight against a padawan, much less against the Dark Lord of the Sith! If Vader couldn't chop off Fett's head, then he wouldn't have been a viable option for Sith. He simply wouldn't have been worthy of that title. Besides that, this is a WEIGHTLESS BLADE. Fett couldn't wield one of those. Only Force Sensitive people can, and Boba Fett was not Force Sensitive.

Darth Hord 09-28-2008 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endorenna (Post 2530673)
The 4,000 year old tech could destroy a planet. )

They only known method that Revan had access to was the MSG (there was only the one in creation and it was made for Malachor V I believe and it is only speculated that it can be altered for other planets) While the empire has much more super weapons available(maybe not in this thread) such as the Sun Crusher.

Quote:

(sigh) In Star Wars EU, Darth Maul also didn't die when he fell down the three thousand foot deep reactor shaft, which probably had a very big, bad generator at the bottom of it...
Actually he did die when he fell down the reactor shaft. I believe you are referring to the comic where he comes back as a cyborg to face Obiwan yet that canon hasn't been declared to be canon. The only post TPM Maul that is canon is the Resurrection Maul that fights Vader.


Edit: I'm no expert on the imperial navy but instead of saying that the imperial navy used just "brute force," (and no strategy as implied by other posts) could someone post examples of this belief?

Endorenna 09-28-2008 11:03 PM

The tech I was talking about was Taris. Of course, I guess it depends on your definition of destroying a planet.

The Empire had the Sun Crusher? I thought that was only in the Legacy series. :confused:

Quote:

I believe you are referring to the comic where he comes back as a cyborg to face Obiwan yet that canon hasn't been declared to be canon. The only post TPM Maul that is canon is the Resurrection Maul that fights Vader.
Sorry, I wasn't aware that it wasn't considered canon. My mistake. :)

Inyri 09-28-2008 11:11 PM

The sun crusher was introduced 7aby in the Kevin J Anderson trilogy. It was created by Imperial scientists in the Maw cluster. It also made a brief cameo in I, Jedi by Michael Stackpole (also roughly 7aby, I believe).

Corinthian 09-28-2008 11:42 PM

Incredibly stupid, but still canon. Sorry, but the full strength of the Empire always beats the Full Force of Revan's Sith Empire. Likewise with equal numbers. Hell, the Empire would probably win in a 2:1 or 3:1 fight. 4000 years is a long time.

Rabish Bini 09-29-2008 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrfang1 (Post 2530181)
But Revan's also "the heart of the force".

No, he's been described as the Heart of the Force, I don't ever remember anyone saying he is the Heart of the Force

Rev7 09-29-2008 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrfang1 (Post 2529947)
Scenario 1: Lightsabers only. No melee, blasters, or force powers.

Anakin. I think that he is a much stronger lightsaber user
Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrfang1 (Post 2529947)
Scenario 2: War. Anakin controls the Imperial Army (including the Death Star 2), and Revan controls the Star Forges sith army.

This one is very questionable. If Vader found the Star Forge, he could use the Death Star to destroy it. However, if it remained hidden, for obvious reasons (hint: infinate army) Revan would win. Really depends on the circumstances.
Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrfang1 (Post 2529947)
Scenario 3: Force battle. Force powers only.

Revan. I believe that he is a much stronger force (more experianced too) than Anakin/Vader.
Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrfang1 (Post 2529947)
Scenario 4: Padme is being held hostage by Revan, and Bastilla is being held hostage by Anakin.

I would rather not explain this one. Anakin would win. I think that you can figure out why/. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrfang1 (Post 2529947)
Scenario 5: All out battle. Fight to the death. Each uses whatever needed to win (except their army).

50/50 here. I think that the person that would win would have to capitalize on a mistake that the other person made....

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 09-29-2008 02:17 AM

Quote:

No, he's been described as the Heart of the Force, I don't ever remember anyone saying he is the Heart of the Force
even so, he was the most powerful in his age. he would still beat anakin. i dont believe vader became more powerful than sidious. if he did, then he wouldve overthrown him without needing luke or secret apprentice. vader himself described sidious as "the most powerful sith in a thousand years" im thinking that the thousand years sith was bane, and bane was the strongest since revan... so yeah. kinda stinks that anakin lost some of his potential... imagine how powerful he wouldve gotten...

heres another reason revan would waste (thats right - waste) anakin in a force-fight and possibly in the all out fight. its indicated in darth bane:path of destruction that revan studied ancient sith and rakatan magics and alchemies.
in the novel darth bane:rule of two, darth zannah (darth bane's apprentice) once fought a jedi who was stronger faster, bigger, and way more skilled than her.(the apprentice of an echani weaponmaster who was one of the best blademasters in the order at the time. i cant remember if she *was* the best)
zannah used soresu against him but to no avail. he just kept coming hard. but during the fight, he was distracted for a split second. in that moment, she cast a sith spell on him with a hand movement. the spell made his worst fears come alive (to him). he was instantly confused, attacking unseen monsters. in his state of confusion, zannah killed him.
apparently, the longer she uses that spell on the victim, the fears become worse and more real. she used it earlier on a victim who ended up clawing her own eyes out and dying in a screaming heap. (phoo. graphic. this stuff is feree-*kay*) its like a really bad version of kotor's 'fear' force powers.
so what if revan did something like that to anakin? or worse as it would likely be?

Darth Hord 09-29-2008 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan (Post 2531076)
even so, he was the most powerful in his age. he would still beat anakin. i dont believe vader became more powerful than sidious. if he did, then he wouldve overthrown him without needing luke or secret apprentice. vader himself described sidious as "the most powerful sith in a thousand years" im thinking that the thousand years sith was bane, and bane was the strongest since revan... so yeah. kinda stinks that anakin lost some of his potential... imagine how powerful he wouldve gotten...


Vader also described Sidious as the most powerful sith lord ever,as did numerous others sources but that's not the point. The point is just because Anakin/Vader is not more powerful then Sidious and Revan is the most powerful in his age doesn't automatically mean Revan>Anakin.

Quote:

heres another reason revan would waste (thats right - waste) anakin in a force-fight and possibly in the all out fight. its indicated in darth baneath of destruction that revan studied ancient sith and rakatan magics and alchemies.
Sith alchemy is not that useful in battle and it is way to vague of a statement.


Quote:

in the novel darth bane:rule of two, darth zannah (darth bane's apprentice) once fought a jedi who was stronger faster, bigger, and way more skilled than her.(the apprentice of an echani weaponmaster who was one of the best blademasters in the order at the time. i cant remember if she *was* the best)
zannah used soresu against him but to no avail. he just kept coming hard. but during the fight, he was distracted for a split second. in that moment, she cast a sith spell on him with a hand movement. the spell made his worst fears come alive (to him). he was instantly confused, attacking unseen monsters. in his state of confusion, zannah killed him.
apparently, the longer she uses that spell on the victim, the fears become worse and more real. she used it earlier on a victim who ended up clawing her own eyes out and dying in a screaming heap. (phoo. graphic. this stuff is feree-*kay*) its like a really bad version of kotor's 'fear' force powers.
Zannah was able to Sarro because the latter got distracted by his companion Johun who kept getting in the way even when he was leaving to help out the other jedi vs Bane. Zannah needed for him to be off guard before she could kill him.

Quote:

so what if revan did something like that to anakin? or worse as it would likely be?
There still is zero proof that Revan ever knew the technique because Bane and Zannah had knowledge from not only Revan's holocron but Freedon Nadd's holocron and Belia Darzu's. The most logical choice for where the attack that Zannah used came from is Nadd's because we see his "apprentices" the Ketos use very similar techniques. But either way we can't prove that Revan knew the technique so it would be illogical to assume otherwise.



Now I'm confused is this ROTS Anakin as the thread title says or the Darth Vader we see in the OT?

TKA-001 09-29-2008 01:01 PM

If it says "Anakin", it usually means him without the suit.

Darth Hord 09-29-2008 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2531215)
If it says "Anakin", it usually means him without the suit.

Some people have been referring to him as Vader though. Pre Suit Vader and ROTS Anakin have a very different mindset which can affect the outcome of the vs match.

Corinthian 09-29-2008 04:19 PM

Revan cannot create an infinite army with the Star Forge, unless he also gets access to a set of Spaarti Cloning Cylinders. The Thrawn Trilogy taught us that to have one without the other is pretty much pointless.

Rabish Bini 09-29-2008 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian (Post 2531323)
Revan cannot create an infinite army with the Star Forge, unless he also gets access to a set of Spaarti Cloning Cylinders. The Thrawn Trilogy taught us that to have one without the other is pretty much pointless.

Forget books/comics/whatever else, a lot of people don't read 'em, and that's not mentioned in the games anywhere, a lot of people wouldn't know what you're talking about.

Corinthian 09-29-2008 11:37 PM

Your point being? If they don't understand what I'm talking about, read the Thrawn Trilogy. It is the definitive bright spot in the EU.

Rabish Bini 09-29-2008 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian (Post 2531560)
Your point being? If they don't understand what I'm talking about, read the Thrawn Trilogy. It is the definitive bright spot in the EU.

My point being that people won't know what the hell you're talking about.

Corinthian 09-29-2008 11:51 PM

Well, I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Feagildin 09-30-2008 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endorenna (Post 2530673)

Boba Fett couldn't win a lightsaber fight against a padawan, much less against the Dark Lord of the Sith! If Vader couldn't chop off Fett's head, then he wouldn't have been a viable option for Sith. He simply wouldn't have been worthy of that title. Besides that, this is a WEIGHTLESS BLADE. Fett couldn't wield one of those. Only Force Sensitive people can, and Boba Fett was not Force Sensitive.

....I was under the impression that Boba Fett was Force Sensitive.......

Endorenna 09-30-2008 12:32 AM

He was? If you give me a source, I'll be more than happy to accept it. However, even if he is Force Sensitive, I still don't think he could've stood up to The Chosen One without dying.

Feagildin 09-30-2008 02:03 AM

Well, after some research, it appears I was mistaken. Though wookiepedia does seem to suggest that Vader was toying with Boba in their duels, possibly out of curiosity.


Anyway, on topic, I vote Revan all the way. Just because Anakin had identity issues all the way up until the end of Episode VI after Luke redeemed him. Sure, Revan had amnesia, but Anakin had his issues without suffering from amnesia. I also believe that Revan had a significantly broader training in the use of the force, and therefore has the edge in all the arenas mentioned, in addition to his innate tactical skills. I suppose one could argue that the amnesia affects Revan's access to that training, but he still, imo, wins. This opinion is most likely based on my bias against Anakin in Episodes I through III.

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 09-30-2008 03:38 AM

Quote:

Vader also described Sidious as the most powerful sith lord ever,
obviously one of those small continuity errors
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The point is just because Anakin/Vader is not more powerful then Sidious and Revan is the most powerful in his age doesn't automatically mean Revan>Anakin.
thats not my point. my saying 'he was the most poweful in his age' was in response to Rabish Bini's comment and is to be taken with my earlier posts about revan having more experience than anakin.
imagine anakin vs a way more experienced average jedi/sith. chances are anakin would cane him. thats pretty much what he did in the jedi temple. he went up against jedi *masters* and came out on top thanks to his sheer power. (and the clones)
my point is that someone with a power level around anakin's and with much more experience and knowlwdge than him would beat him. here is an easier way to put it: ep3 pre-diced anakin/vader vs a non canonical vader who killed obi wan, went on to learn heaps from sidious, and has overthrown him. who do you think would win? now imagine post-diced, potential reduced suit vader vs 'successful' vader. the suit vader would by most chances lose.

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Sith alchemy is not that useful in battle and it is way to vague of a statement.
sith magic and alchemy is often referred to together. im focusing on the magic. and actually, what if revan used some alchemy to resurrect some dead sith to help in his fight against vader? that would help somewhat wouldnt it.

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Zannah was able to Sarro because the latter got distracted by his companion Johun who kept getting in the way even when he was leaving to help out the other jedi vs Bane. Zannah needed for him to be off guard before she could kill him.
my mistake then :)

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There still is zero proof that Revan ever knew the technique because Bane and Zannah had knowledge from not only Revan's holocron but Freedon Nadd's holocron and Belia Darzu's. The most logical choice for where the attack that Zannah used came from is Nadd's because we see his "apprentices" the Ketos use very similar techniques. But either way we can't prove that Revan knew the technique so it would be illogical to assume otherwise.
i know. i was speculating. thats why i said "it is indicated" rather than "it says in..." and why i said "so what if revan did something like that to anakin? or worse as it would likely be?" and i agree that zannah's spell had nothing to do with revan. i was just using her as an example to show what sith sorcery was to people who dont know exactly what it is.

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Revan cannot create an infinite army with the Star Forge, unless he also gets access to a set of Spaarti Cloning Cylinders. The Thrawn Trilogy taught us that to have one without the other is pretty much pointless.
what if he manned his main fleets with humans and huge supporting fleets with droids? that would get rid of the manpower problem and it would also give revan and his admirals the ability to make many suicide attacks against the imperial fleet, and a huge edge in battle formations and such that would be impossible otherwise. in fact, in theory revan's army could design special kamikaze droid star destroyers with no creature comforts whatsoever, completely maximized for firepower and very specifically designed for the purpose of blowing themselves and the enemy up. they could maybe even do stuff like mimic comm traffic and the like to disguise themselves and manned destroyers. they could also design the kamikaze destroyers to look just like the normal ones in order to confuse the imperials. at first glance, the imperials wouldnt know which groups of destroyers are manned or droid ones.
revan could also send huge fleets of kamikazes to crash into the death star.
wait... why the hell DIDNT revan do this in his actual conquest of the republic?! prehaps he didnt need it... no wait. i see. he wanted to change the republic into a stronger galaxy. and for that he needed a sith empire. and in order for him to create an empire, he needed people.

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Forget books/comics/whatever else, a lot of people don't read 'em, and that's not mentioned in the games anywhere, a lot of people wouldn't know what you're talking about.
thats their problem!:D actually, for that matter why should we bring up kotor or episode 3? some people wouldnt have played/seen it!

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Your point being? If they don't understand what I'm talking about, read the Thrawn Trilogy. It is the definitive bright spot in the EU.
i just happened to have borrowed it from my library!:D havnt read it yet though.

Darth Hord 09-30-2008 08:17 AM

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Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan (Post 2531620)
obviously one of those small continuity errors

I believe Vader called him that in the "Death Star" novel.

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my point is that someone with a power level around anakin's and with much more experience and knowlwdge than him would beat him.
Count Dooku certainly seems to fit into that category. He was the better saber duelist(by that I mean sheer blade work/technical skill) and had more knowledge/mastery in the force then Anakin(he tooled him and obiwan at the same time) but the latter was described to become a complete joke when Anakin went on the offensive.

For the record revan wins the force duel, and the all out with a lot difficulty (best to avoid a saber duel) as I explained in my original post.

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what if he manned his main fleets with humans and huge supporting fleets with droids? that would get rid of the manpower problem and it would also give revan and his admirals the ability to make many suicide attacks against the imperial fleet, and a huge edge in battle formations and such that would be impossible otherwise. in fact, in theory revan's army could design special kamikaze droid star destroyers with no creature comforts whatsoever, completely maximized for firepower and very specifically designed for the purpose of blowing themselves and the enemy up. they could maybe even do stuff like mimic comm traffic and the like to disguise themselves and manned destroyers. they could also design the kamikaze destroyers to look just like the normal ones in order to confuse the imperials. at first glance, the imperials wouldnt know which groups of destroyers are manned or droid ones.
Then one would wonder why the confederacy didn't do this. As much as like the theory we have go by what we know as fact. I can very easily counter this theory with my own theory that the empire creates a device that shuts down the enemy droid. Or I could easily say the droid army is resurrected and they do the exact same thing but better due to the technology advantage. No offense but theories like this are rather poor points because that type of speculation can go both ways. Best to argue with the known and the known is that kotor droids are not in control of their own warships. Hence the reason why an infinite fleet is not valid. However in he could have an infinite SF droid army that would be useful in a strict land battle but that doesn't mean they will automatically win a land battle.

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wait... why the hell DIDNT revan do this in his actual conquest of the republic?! prehaps he didnt need it... no wait. i see. he wanted to change the republic into a stronger galaxy. and for that he needed a sith empire. and in order for him to create an empire, he needed people.
Erm, the kamikaze droid ships would be ramming into the republic ships you know the people who wouldn't oppose his sith empire and probably wouldn't join him. It would make sense to send kamikaze droids ships on the republic warships. So I don't why he would want to keep people from a military that wasn't loyal to him. Hence the reason that a lot of republic ships were lost at Malachor. So that is a hole in the theory.

The Betrayer 09-30-2008 09:04 AM

Scenario 1: I'd have to say this is a tie. Both of them had to fight with various lightsaber wielders, and they mostly won.

Scenario 2: Revan, definitely. Death Star=slow, Stormtroopers=ineffective. Star Forge=reason why the Sith won a war, Sith Troopers=strong in numbers

Scenario 3: Revan. He, after all made the thought bomb.

Scenario 4: Revan. Unlike Anakin, Revan can actually control his emotions to a point, and Anakin would just be mindless rage.

Scenario 5: Revan.

This are all due to personal opinions and some hints of bias. :P

Ultimate Vader 09-30-2008 09:54 AM

Scenario 1 : Anakin, seriously. He is a master of Djem So who defeated Count Dooku, who is probably the best lightsaber duelist of that time. Why he chooses Djem So, rather than Juyo/Vaapad that uses dark emotions and fear? It is because in Djem So, the greater the midi-chlorian, the stronger the user gets. Also Djem So is like Shien but more offensive. It utilizes powerful counter if the form of critical strikes after succesfully defend an attack. And all of us probably know that Anakin Skywalker has the highest midi-chlorian count. He's the Chosen One. He only lose to our lovely Obi-Wan Kenobi because he's too arrogant to think about anything (think smart, he can jump to left side of Obi-Wan Kenobi and stab him, that's it).

Scenario 2 : This could go either way. If he finds Star Forge, then say goodbye for the great Revan. If he don't find it, he could lose. COULD. Remember, Revan is a great tactician (everybody knows that) and as described above, he has Star Forge. Now that is something. Anakin ( I assume this is Vader pre-suit ) as described above, he has Imperial Army. That means something too. But, Revan will absolutely win if the Imperial Army is as stupid as shown in Original Trilogy Movie (they shoot very lame, if you compare them to clone troopers). Revan will only lose if the Imperial Army is as smart as shown in novel.

Scenario 3 : I love Anakin/Vader character so much, but at some point I have to admit that pre-suit Anakin's force powers is nothing compared to the great and experienced Revan's force power. Revan wins every time. Sorry for Anakin fans, all of you must face the truth.

Scenario 4 : This is not fair. All of you know Anakin loves Padme so much. He will go into force rage if he sees Padme in danger. Even the experienced and powerful Count Dooku can't compare with Anakin if Anakin goes into rage. But I don't say Revan doesn't have a chance. Maybe this could go either way. I only say Anakin MAYBE wins because of his love to Padme. Revan doesn't love Bastila like Anakin loves Padme.

Scenario 5 : This should be realized as a comic or novel. It will be very great! This could go either way, but I think Anakin wins 9/10 (I assume all of Imperial's might and resources is used).

Darth Hord 09-30-2008 11:32 AM

I'm going to try and sound like a ravening lunatic ( I'm not that fond of Anakin) but there are some flaws in your beliefs.
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Originally Posted by Darth Betrayal (Post 2531680)
Scenario 1:

Scenario 2: Revan, definitely. Death Star=slow, Stormtroopers=ineffective. Star Forge=reason why the Sith won a war, Sith Troopers=strong in numbers

Erm, the storm troopers have shown themselves to be very capable outside of the OT movies. Furthermore there are ALOT more storm troopers then then there were sith troopers. The reason being is that the galactic empire was in control of the entire galaxy(which as whole was bigger to due more planets being discovered/populated) so they were the dominant military power while Revan's sith empire never was in that position even after Malak's betrayal. And the sith never won a war using the star the star forge.

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Scenario 3: Revan. He, after all made the thought bomb.
While I agree that Revan takes this soundly, he did NOT create the thought bomb which is absolutely useless here and he would get himself killed trying the ritual.

Corinthian 09-30-2008 08:31 PM

Ugh. Read Allegiance, Betrayal. The Stormtroopers are the best soldiers in the Galaxy. It's not propaganda.

Death Star isn't slow. It has what's magically called a Hyperdrive, which allows it to travel at several hundred thousand times the Speed of Light.

Thrawn Trilogy states that Droid-Controlled Battle Fleets didn't come into widespread use until after the failure of the Katana Fleet, somewhere around 25 BBY. So Revan is 3975 years off to be able to make a Droid-Controlled Fleet. He can't even use a Slave-Circuited Fleet, since that didn't come into widespread use until the rise of the Katana Fleet, and then subsequently disappeared after the Katana Fleet vanished.

Man, I am some kind of EU Deity.

The Betrayer 09-30-2008 10:08 PM

Well, you do forget that there are A LOT more Dark Jedi/Sith at the time of Revan. Anakin has what - 10?

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 09-30-2008 10:47 PM

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I believe Vader called him that in the "Death Star" novel.
thats the one

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Count Dooku certainly seems to fit into that category. He was the better saber duelist(by that I mean sheer blade work/technical skill) and had more knowledge/mastery in the force then Anakin(he tooled him and obiwan at the same time) but the latter was described to become a complete joke when Anakin went on the offensive.
from what ive seen in the expanded universe, dooku never struck me as that powerful. for me its like: theres average jedi, above average jedi (apprentice obi wan, bastila, etc), strong jedi (kavar, master obi wan, kyle katarn, mara jade), and then legendary jedi. (hoth, mace, yoda, revan, anakin, luke)
dooku seemed to fit in 'strong jedi' catergory. he became stronger thanks to the dark side and more experience etc.

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Then one would wonder why the confederacy didn't do this. As much as like the theory we have go by what we know as fact. I can very easily counter this theory with my own theory that the empire creates a device that shuts down the enemy droid. Or I could easily say the droid army is resurrected and they do the exact same thing but better due to the technology advantage. No offense but theories like this are rather poor points because that type of speculation can go both ways.
sure they could do that, by they cant make as many as revan. which i think is why they didnt.

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It would make sense to send kamikaze droids ships on the republic warships.
thats what i meant. :)

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So I don't why he would want to keep people from a military that wasn't loyal to him. Hence the reason that a lot of republic ships were lost at Malachor. So that is a hole in the theory.
um, i cant seem to undertsand what you are saying... did you miss some words or punctuation? that or my brain is on holiday.(probably the latter :xp: )

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Scenario 3: Revan. He, after all made the thought bomb.
remember: revan knew how to create thought bombs. we dont know if he ever used any. (if he did, he probably wouldve made someone else do it like bane did)

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Why he chooses Djem So, rather than Juyo/Vaapad that uses dark emotions and fear? It is because in Djem So, the greater the midi-chlorian, the stronger the user gets. Also Djem So is like Shien but more offensive. It utilizes powerful counter if the form of critical strikes after succesfully defend an attack.
another reason why he chose djem so is that by ep3, juyo was incomplete other than mace's vapaad. and anakin couldnt learn vapaad because mace chooses who to teach it to. and mace knows that anakin has a little problem with his emotions and i think, anakin would be a prime candidate to slip into vapaad induced dark side. IMO he couldnt have handled it. its his fiery personality. (
Shien is my favorite k2 saber style. followed by ataru. i chose shien because i found it effective for my style of play, and i like the principles of it.

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Scenario 2 : This could go either way. If he finds Star Forge, then say goodbye for the great Revan. If he don't find it, he could lose. COULD. Remember, Revan is a great tactician (everybody knows that) and as described above, he has Star Forge. Now that is something. Anakin ( I assume this is Vader pre-suit ) as described above, he has Imperial Army. That means something too. But, Revan will absolutely win if the Imperial Army is as stupid as shown in Original Trilogy Movie (they shoot very lame, if you compare them to clone troopers). Revan will only lose if the Imperial Army is as smart as shown in novel.
i dont think they are stupid as in the OT. i hate the stormies, but i think they stink in the OT because the movies are old, and they didnt pay attention to that too much. its later when they made the books they realised, wow, stormtroopers are really useless! i (i mean, come on. in rotj, battle of endor. if those troops were the "empire's finest" as emperor says...)

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Thrawn Trilogy states that Droid-Controlled Battle Fleets didn't come into widespread use until after the failure of the Katana Fleet, somewhere around 25 BBY. So Revan is 3975 years off to be able to make a Droid-Controlled Fleet. He can't even use a Slave-Circuited Fleet, since that didn't come into widespread use until the rise of the Katana Fleet, and then subsequently disappeared after the Katana Fleet vanished.
havnt heard of katana fleet yet... still havnt gotten round to reading thrawn trilogy yet. and id check wookiepedia, but i hate spoilers. im also trying to get outbound flight from my libraray.

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Man, I am some kind of EU Deity.
eeeheh. youre not the only one around here man. this *is* lucasforums after all. (not saying i am. people have different knowledge levels. i dont know where mine would stand. :) )


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