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-   -   Should Kavar's Corner take a month long break? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=192831)

tk102 10-08-2008 09:51 PM

Should Kavar's Corner take a month long break?
 
Seems to this observer that everyone participating in Kavar's Corner debates these days is getting pretty wound up and snippity at each other. I wonder if wouldn't be a bad idea to close the forum for about a month until the U.S. election is over and (hopefully) the economic situation is a bit more stable.

What do you think?

Ultimate Vader 10-08-2008 09:56 PM

Perhaps it is a good idea to close Kavar's Corner so people stop talking about U.S. election. Well, it's my opinion anyway, I don't know about other people's opinion.

Litofsky 10-08-2008 09:58 PM

Hold on a minute! I'm all for taking a break, but a month? That's a bit extreme, in my opinion. The political situation in Kavar's has recently been upset by an influx of new members with ideals that are, generally, the antithesis of the general Corner's.

So, if you were going to close it at all, I'd only do it for a week- two at most. If I couldn't post here for one month, I'd be very sad.

Inyri 10-08-2008 10:00 PM

If this forum is designed for discussion on politics (as is stated in the rules, along with a variety of other topics), shutting it down because people are talking about politics seems a little... off.

Perhaps a little more moderation is required. I think that would solve a lot of the current issues.

Ultimate Vader 10-08-2008 10:04 PM

Hmm.. closed for 2 weeks or more moderation.. I think both are good solutions to the problem

Nedak 10-08-2008 10:11 PM

No.
If people don't want to debate they shouldn't come here

El Sitherino 10-08-2008 10:13 PM

Haha, do it tk.

Corinthian 10-08-2008 10:20 PM

I see no purpose to this. It won't change anything.

GarfieldJL 10-08-2008 10:22 PM

This election may be the most important one in our lifetimes, and in my opinion might even determine whether or not we lose all our rights within the next four years.

Achilles 10-08-2008 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2535515)
If this forum is designed for discussion on politics (as is stated in the rules, along with a variety of other topics), shutting it down because people are talking about politics seems a little... off.

Perhaps a little more moderation is required. I think that would solve a lot of the current issues.

Perfect post.

mimartin 10-08-2008 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk102 (Post 2535509)
Seems to this observer that everyone participating in Kavar's Corner debates these days is getting pretty wound up and snippity at each other.

But it is brother and sister love kind of snippiness. :D


Quote:

Originally Posted by tk102 (Post 2535509)
I wonder if wouldn't be a bad idea to close the forum for about a month until the U.S. election is over and (hopefully) the economic situation is a bit more stable.

Thinking back to something a new moderator wrote recently.
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan7 (Post 2524057)
There was a time, when quite a few people thought Kavars, was going to split the community, and still think that Kavars, produces bad blood in our little KotOR world, as such I think most of us are quite releveaved for the current 'lull' in debates.

To which I replied.
Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin (Post 2524141)
So the staff is relieved there is no discussion in a discussion forum? I guess that is one way to prevent disagreements. :D

To which he assured me.
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan7 (Post 2524187)
That's not what I mean and you know it :xp:

Now wonder is his original statement was true. :confused:


Quote:

Originally Posted by tk102 (Post 2535509)
What do you think?

I voted no, but I am not the one that has to deal with this unruly, yet loveable bunch. I really don’t even know what the options are. Like I don’t know if it is possible to stop new thread from being posted only in Kavar and limiting the political discussion to only a few threads. So I trust in the wisdom and leadership of Moderators and the Administrators. (now to wipe this brown stuff off my nose.)

El Sitherino 10-08-2008 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarfieldJL (Post 2535528)
This election may be the most important one in our lifetimes, and in my opinion might even determine whether or not we lose all our rights within the next four years.

'Sup?
http://fascistpsychlaws.files.wordpr...infoil_hat.jpg

Corinthian 10-08-2008 10:37 PM

I can see your masterful debating skills at work there.

Litofsky 10-08-2008 10:37 PM

Obey... her... Royal... Highness...

*begins 1984-style chant to Big Brother Hillary Clinton*

:lol: Wow. I needed a good laugh, Sithy. Much thanks. As for Obama taking away our rights (I assume that you refer to him), where is your proof? But maybe we shouldn't talk about this in a "Should we close this place down?" thread.

El Sitherino 10-08-2008 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian (Post 2535541)
I can see your masterful debating skills at work there.

Really?
I wasn't aware they were showing.

mimartin 10-08-2008 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Sitherino (Post 2535545)
Really?
I wasn't aware they were showing.

They are always showing. :xp:

El Sitherino 10-08-2008 10:47 PM

I need a tighter belt.

.... But how will I whip ass?


A new question to be debated, me thinks.

The Doctor 10-08-2008 10:58 PM

You could always get a second belt.

I may not post here often, but I do enjoy lurking around and seeing what other people think about whatever happens to be going on in the world. As Litofsky said, a month may be a little much. Or perhaps Inyri is right about increased moderation. Tightening up on some of the rules in here might go a long way to reducing the snippiness.

Litofsky 10-08-2008 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Sitherino (Post 2535553)
I need a tighter belt.

.... But how will I whip ass?


A new question to be debated, me thinks.

Good Sir Sithy needs not a belt to whip ass. He does this anyway with his secondary, belt. This one is metal, with diamond thorns and a gold handle.

Sir Sith like to travel in style.

At the Doctor's comments above, I'm not sure what could be done about the rules. I think that a few moderators patrolling should keep things clean, but maybe one week off would do everyone a bit of good.

Tommycat 10-08-2008 11:02 PM

If it is to be closed down, I would prefer it to be closed permanently. This is not a political debate site. Closing down political debate would probably be a good idea to prevent harsh feelings. The only other thing would be to delete political threads in other areas as well. Ensure that no politics are discussed on this site. There really isn't any valid reason to have political debate on a site like this.

Just my opinion.

Sabretooth 10-08-2008 11:06 PM

I hardly ever have anything to do with Kavar's, much less the darn American Elections; but I'm against the closing of any forum of any sort. Besides, there are plenty of topics worth debate other than the US Presidential mumbo-jumbo, such as Sir Hamfast's good Presuppositionalism or whatever religion he's preaching.

To be honest, I couldn't think of such an idea coming from you, good teekay. I believed you to be truly just and fair and an upholder of liberty and freedom and pants. The locking of this thread over merely such an important would be... unfair.

And you also left out the Yoda option from your poll. Don't make me start to dislike you, teekay. :carms:

El Sitherino 10-08-2008 11:09 PM

Fools, you clearly missed that this was TK's attempt to divert conversation to another topic. Such as my awesome HouseCat.

mimartin 10-08-2008 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Sitherino (Post 2535573)
Fools, you clearly missed that this was TK's attempt to divert conversation to another topic. Such as my awesome HouseCat.

Get us all to agree with each other on something and unite against a common enemy.

I thought the only trick tk had, was to shut down the site under the ruse of maintenance.

Web Rider 10-08-2008 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian (Post 2535525)
I see no purpose to this. It won't change anything.

I agree, feelings about political happenings would inevitably spill out into other sections.

I'm an admin at another forum, and after some bad experiences with a single member, we essentially have a "no religion and politics" rule in our more serious discussion section. And I'll tell you right now, that the average rate of posting there is oh, about one or two topics a YEAR.

If such a rule is implemented here, there's no point in this forum at all. If people can't control themselves, that is not a sign of a flawed concept. That is a sign that people are only human, and there is possibly a lack of moderation, though in many cases I would say there is actually over-moderation. And until somebody asks my particular thoughts on that I'll keep my mouth shut.


Would taking a break do anything except make the discussion look like it doesn't exist? No, not at all. To those who say "it's a Star Wars site! Talk about that!" Lets face it, even Star Wars has a lot of political commentary in it. We could make one grand topic on what Star Wars is actually saying about society and what we can take from it as, not just a sci-fi show, but a socio-political commentary.

And lets be honest with ourselves, Star Wars fans we may all be, Star Wars does not drive our lives(well, maybe it does for some), and, as I said above, even Star Wars will bring out deeper conversation among us. Look at the sections the members here all post in, we've got modders, economists, fans, writers, artists, socio-political discussion is something that we all have common ground in.


I think what Kavars needs is for it's regulars to start bringing up non-election related subjects. There's a million of them out there. Presuppositionalism is a great one for a start. Any move by the staff to cut out political discussion would only seem forced and make members resentful that in a forum designed for speaking our minds, we're not allowed to speak our minds.

That is why I think the onus of "saving" Kavar's is on it's regulars, to start topics that will move away from the political feuding that is ravaging the forum at the moment. If we can talk about something else, I think we can solve a lot of the political discontent we're seeing.

And I just realize I wrote a lot more than I planned.

EDIT: and the topic poll is loaded, misleading, and frankly, condescending. We have some great discussion going on here, and taking a break does not always cause people to cool, often they'll come back hotter than ever. And the context in which "arguing" is being used I find somewhat offensive as it refers to the bad kind of arguing, and doesn't take into account the good kind of argumentation that we do often participate in here.

Da_man 10-09-2008 12:00 AM

I'd say to close the thread only if people continue with the bad election threads/posts. If we really want to close Kavar's until the election is over, we should probably go to Jonathan7, he is the moddie for Kavar's.

Achilles 10-09-2008 12:25 AM

Shut down a thread that many people enjoy and use responsibly simply because a handful of people can't conduct themselves responsibly? It hardly seems fair.

I understand the aversion to wanting to hold people accountable due to the perceived amount of "legwork" required, however I think the alternative currently on the table seems excessive.

Arcesious 10-09-2008 12:36 AM

I love debating... It exercises my brain... That and right about now, things are getting interesting due to the election...

tk102 10-09-2008 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inyri (Post 2535515)
If this forum is designed for discussion on politics (as is stated in the rules, along with a variety of other topics), shutting it down because people are talking about politics seems a little... off.

The problem isn't that people are talking about politics, it's that the tone has become less than civil lately and there's been more personal jabs than can easily be moderated.
Quote:

Perhaps a little more moderation is required. I think that would solve a lot of the current issues.
Easier said than done. Seems everybody has a protest or requests an appeal, or lodges a formal complaint to every moderated action taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by han sala (Post 2535521)
No. If people don't want to debate they shouldn't come here

Agreed! Wait, can we staff members use that too or do we still have to play referee? :xp:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian (Post 2535525)
I see no purpose to this. It won't change anything.

I think you're probably right, Corinthian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin (Post 2535537)
But it is brother and sister love kind of snippiness. :D

:\
Quote:

Thinking back to something a new moderator wrote recently. To which I replied. To which he assured me. Now wonder is his original statement was true. :confused:
I'm sure J7 spoke for most of the staff. :dev8:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretooth (Post 2535569)
To be honest, I couldn't think of such an idea coming from you, good teekay. I believed you to be truly just and fair and an upholder of liberty and freedom and pants. The locking of this thread over merely such an important would be... unfair.

Just to be clear I wasn't talking about locking a thread, but the entire forum. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Web Rider (Post 2535591)
EDIT: and the topic poll is loaded, misleading, and frankly, condescending. We have some great discussion going on here, and taking a break does not always cause people to cool, often they'll come back hotter than ever. And the context in which "arguing" is being used I find somewhat offensive as it refers to the bad kind of arguing, and doesn't take into account the good kind of argumentation that we do often participate in here.

Well that was the whole point of posting it. :indif: If you were a moderator of the forums, I suspect you'd see the good/bad posts in different proportions. I am a bit condescending towards this forum. It has brought out the worst behavior and drama between members and staff alike. As a moderator or admin, you can either act (and get blamed for bias or censorship) or not act (and allow ad hominem attacks to become the norm). But regardless of your opinion of this poll, you reached the conclusion I was hoping for:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Web Rider (Post 2535591)
That is why I think the onus of "saving" Kavar's is on it's regulars, to start topics that will move away from the political feuding that is ravaging the forum at the moment. If we can talk about something else, I think we can solve a lot of the political discontent we're seeing.

Quite right, well said. :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_man (Post 2535609)
I'd say to close the thread only if people continue with the bad election threads/posts. If we really want to close Kavar's until the election is over, we should probably go to Jonathan7, he is the moddie for Kavar's.

He's gone this week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles (Post 2535628)
Shut down a thread that many people enjoy and use responsibly simply because a handful of people can't conduct themselves responsibly? It hardly seems fair.

I understand the aversion to wanting to hold people accountable due to the perceived amount of "legwork" required, however I think the alternative currently on the table seems excessive.

That's true. It sucks that fairness requires patience and compromise and I'm short on both.

I think hear tragic music...



:violin::sing9: O the sad life of moderators!
O the tragedy of administrators!
Why do they do it for free?


I'm going to go back to my comfortable apathy now. :hattip:

Web Rider 10-09-2008 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk102 (Post 2535676)
Well that was the whole point of posting it. :indif: If you were a moderator of the forums, I suspect you'd see the good/bad posts in different proportions. I am a bit condescending towards this forum.

And where I moderate I'm an iron-fisted dictator. No I am not joking, I will publicly execute a member as fast as I will annihilate intolerance and flames. Fortunately, I don't have to do it very often because the forum I admin on is generally well behaved. Or, at least, they learn quickly.

I could never moderate a politics forum, I'm far too political minded, people probably would complain about my tactics being too harsh too.

Tommycat 10-09-2008 02:48 AM

Just to clarify my earlier, I don't want Kavars closed. I just feel that if you have to close it for a month to cool things off, you'd probably be best eliminating political discussion altogether.

Prime 10-09-2008 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommycat (Post 2535682)
Just to clarify my earlier, I don't want Kavars closed. I just feel that if you have to close it for a month to cool things off, you'd probably be best eliminating political discussion altogether.

I like this idea!

Pity the yes vote is so low. Probably because all you ethnic right wing extremists are voting no.

Yar-El 10-09-2008 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk102 (Post 2535509)
Seems to this observer that everyone participating in Kavar's Corner debates these days is getting pretty wound up and snippity at each other. I wonder if wouldn't be a bad idea to close the forum for about a month until the U.S. election is over and (hopefully) the economic situation is a bit more stable. What do you think?

It has been tense in here. Most of the threads are about the election and economy. I had a thread about religion, but I had to place it in the Senate Chambers. Maybe a time out would get everyone to see other more positive news. :D Too much negative thinking sometimes overshadows the positive. Plus, this is a game site forums after all.

If we cannot agree on this one simple issue, the stress level must be ready to burst.

SD Nihil 10-09-2008 01:12 PM

It should be closed after the election is over. Right now we still need to get sources, info, good comon sense talk across.

But afterwards once the election season is over this Kavar's should be closed for good. If people are un willing to change their minds or cannot change others then what's the point other than a debate that changes neither side's mind anyway. In the end it's just a waste of time.

Now if people were willing to change their minds then yes this forum in my opinion would be productive. But I've been getting messages from people saying they feel their is no point in this forum to continue to talk to those who don't read, listen, or change their minds. They've been talking about leaving the forum.

In my opinion that's the oposite of what we want here. We want more to come to this forum and to have more activity. If the forum is counter productive then that's not good for the entire forum as a whole.

There have been threads closed, cursing, flaming, infractions, complaints, and people thinking about leaving. And in my opinion if the differing opinion majority of them feels they just want to leave then that does not help for a debate when their is little to no differing side.

I think it's also appropriate to say here I appologize if I offended any of you during my debating. I don't want to argue about this. This is just what I feel. I've put in my vote.

Astor 10-09-2008 01:19 PM

It's true that people can get a little... heated during a debate, but I don't think that closing Kavar's for either a short time or permanently is the answer.

While things can sometimes get a tad nasty, the overall feeling I get from everybody is that they enjoy a good debate. I've learned a hell of a lot from my few months haunting Kavar's, and it's done wonders for my view of the world at large.

Once the US elections are over, i'm sure the current mood will blow over.

So, in short, I don't want to see Kavar's closed.

SW01 10-09-2008 01:28 PM

^

Agreed. Kavar's is one of the main reasons I come here now - I've seen a lot of great friendly discussions, and like Astor have learned a good deal from the threads.

It'd be a shame to see it go down at all, really.

Yar-El 10-09-2008 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Nihil (Post 2535863)
It should be closed after the election is over. Right now we still need to get sources, info, good comon sense talk across.

But afterwards once the election season is over this Kavar's should be closed for good. If people are un willing to change their minds or cannot change others then what's the point other than a debate that changes neither side's mind anyway. In the end it's just a waste of time.

That is a good reason why the chief tk102 should close Kavar's. Leaving the forums open at this point is like poking a dead cow. People have allready made up their minds, and the only thing left is my guy is better than yours type of arguments. We are one step short of opening bashing threads.

Inyri 10-09-2008 02:32 PM

Or it might explain why this is considered a debate forum and not an indoctrination forum.

And I don't think you guys are qualified to speak for everyone and say that no one will ever change their mind on anything or consider another poster's points. It happens a lot, actually. :)

Astor 10-09-2008 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2535897)
That is a good reason why the chief tk102 should close Kavar's. Leaving the forums open at this point is like poking a dead cow. People have allready made up their minds, and the only thing left is my guy is better than yours type of arguments.

Statements like that aren't helping :xp:.

Change needs to come from both sides - I enter every debate with an open mind, and I keep my mind open to ALL possibilities. No one 'side', if it really has to come down to such a thing is innocent in this, and you can't possibly expect people to agree all the time in such discussions.

The biggest problem is people not realising when to stop poking the cow.

Ctrl Alt Del 10-09-2008 02:35 PM

No. How much time people need to cool off, anyway? Was it a discussion on, for example, an instant messenger, where every reply is almost immediate then I would understand that people must take a breath and rethink their arguments (and attitude) over. This being a forum where you can read, re-read and chose NOT to post a reply to any message and topic, I don't see the usefulness of that shutting down measure.

At any rate, people are doing what they were supposed to do here, aren't they? Seriously discussing. If the US elections and the economical crisis prove to be too much for the staff to handle (:xp:), close the related topics, not the entire forum.

Litofsky 10-09-2008 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2535897)
That is a good reason why the chief tk102 should close Kavar's. Leaving the forums open at this point is like poking a dead cow. People have allready made up their minds, and the only thing left is my guy is better than yours type of arguments. We are one step short of opening bashing threads.

I respectfully disagree. Topics in Kavar's have helped me attain a better understanding of the world today, as well as educate me on some previously-unknown material. Losing Kavar's Corner would be like losing the cornerstone of the KotOR forums, in my opinion.


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