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-   -   Where was the Endar Spire going? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=193271)

jamestl2 10-24-2008 02:38 AM

Where was the Endar Spire going?
 
And why was Revan aboard it?

I know the game needed someplace to start, but I'm speaking from a storyline perspective.

Some of the characters (like Trask) mention that Bastila was in charge of "the mission". What was that mission?

There were no star maps on Taris, and Revan didn't know of their existence at the time due to amnesia (all Revan remembered was fighting Bastila).

RedHawke 10-24-2008 02:58 AM

Moving to the K1 forum...

I think the Endar Spire was sacrificed by the Jedi to put 'our hero' into play, with Bastila and Carth meant to be our companions/watchers.

jamestl2 10-24-2008 03:17 AM

(OK, yeah, sorry about the wrong forum there, I was thinking general KOTOR, not just III and TSO ;))

So essentially it was just a "random ship" over a random world (Taris) chosen by the Jedi to set Revan in motion?

If so, did they have any reason for going to Taris then? (Or whatever the intended destination was.) And also how did the Jedi know Darth Malak and the Sith were going to ambush it?

Plus I'm not sure how the other soldiers would really feel about being apart of a "sacrificial" mission (Well, depending on what the Jedi told them the "mission" was, that is).

Hayden Kered 10-24-2008 04:35 AM

As far as canon goes, the reason for the Endar Spire being where it was has not be elaborated on yet.

TKA-001 10-24-2008 11:36 AM

Doesn't the title crawl say something about a Republic fleet attacking Malak's forces over Taris or something?

jamestl2 10-24-2008 12:42 PM

(Just started a new game, and...)

The opening craw states something along the lines of "A Jedi battle fleet engages Darth Malak to halt the Sith's Galactic Domination".

Doesn't explain why it was there in the first place though. I wonder if it will be elaborated upon.

Ctrl Alt Del 10-24-2008 01:02 PM

Yeah, the fleet was there as part of a battle. Why Revan was put in there is the question. I suppose he/she was meant to wake up and be 'remembered' that he was a soldier/explorer/scoundrel hired by the Republic.

mattig89ch 10-24-2008 01:05 PM

Acually, I think it does...They just engaged the Sith battle fleet to try and stop them from gaining a new system (we all saw how well that worked).

knight 12167 10-24-2008 06:57 PM

When Revan wakes up do you reckon that was the first time he woke up after the battle on his flagship

Corinthian 10-24-2008 07:20 PM

That would seem highly unlikely.

Chevron 7 locke 10-25-2008 01:07 PM

They might have been on their way to dantooine when Malak ambushed them. Or they might have been on a mission to taris itself.

They were traveling around the galaxy to try and bring out Revan's memories so they could find a way to stop the sith threat.

Ctrl Alt Del 10-25-2008 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevron 7 locke (Post 2544425)
They might have been on their way to dantooine when Malak ambushed them. Or they might have been on a mission to taris itself.

I believe the Council had already did their trick with Revan's mind by the time he awoke. He was just supposed to have awakened on the Academy, so I believe that the Endar Spire might have been indeed ambushed.

Rev7 10-25-2008 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KotOR opening crawl
Four thousand years before
the rise of the Galactic
Empire, the Republic verges
on collapse. DARTH MALAK,
last surviving apprentice of
the Dark Lord Revan, has
unleashed an invincible
Sith armada upon an
unsuspecting galaxy.

Crushing all resistance,
Malak's war of conquest
has left the Jedi Order
scattered and vulnerable
as countless Knights fall in
battle, and many more
swear allegiance to the new
Sith Master.

In the skies above the Outer
Rim world of Taris, a Jedi
battle fleet engages the
forces of Darth Malak in a
desperate effort to halt the
Sith's galactic domination…

I think that that should answer your question.

Is it just me, or do you guys think that it is a little bit stupid that one Republic flagship was sent to overrun a planet infested/conquered with Sith?

Chevron 7 locke 10-26-2008 12:09 AM

The council assigned Bastila to get Revan's memories back and she was on that mission when the spire was ambushed

The Doctor 10-26-2008 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev7 (Post 2544639)
Is it just me, or do you guys think that it is a little bit stupid that one Republic flagship was sent to overrun a planet infested/conquered with Sith?

1. The crawl should answer your question, as well. It clearly says a Jedi battle fleet. Implying more than one ship.

2. There's no evidence suggesting that the Endar Spire was a flagship in any sense of the word. In fact, knowing the Jedi, they would probably intentionally place Revan and his 'guardian' Jedi on a ship of relatively low standing in the fleet.

As for the mission the Endar Spire was on, it could have been as simple as a supply run, or a patrol of the Republic border territories. We don't know the composition of the rest of the fleet she was with, nor of the condition of the war-time borders.

Rev7 10-26-2008 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doctor (Post 2544650)
1. The crawl should answer your question, as well. It clearly says a Jedi battle fleet. Implying more than one ship.

That is very true. Sorry. I doubt that there was more than one Hammerhead class cruiser...
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doctor (Post 2544650)
2. There's no evidence suggesting that the Endar Spire was a flagship in any sense of the word. In fact, knowing the Jedi, they would probably intentionally place Revan and his 'guardian' Jedi on a ship of relatively low standing in the fleet.

Hammerhead-Class Cruiser

Battle of Taris

According to this wookie article, it does not mention that there were other ships present. We can really only infer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doctor (Post 2544650)
As for the mission the Endar Spire was on, it could have been as simple as a supply run, or a patrol of the Republic border territories. We don't know the composition of the rest of the fleet she was with, nor of the condition of the war-time borders.

It clearly states in the opening crawl that the Endar Spire "engages the forces of Darth Malak in a desperate effort to halt the Sith's galactic domination…" There was no supply run or patrol.

As for the war time borders, we don't know about them.

Another thing to think about....why don't we see any more Republic escape pods on the surface of Taris. If there were more than one ship, there would most likely be more escape pods launched with means that there should be more than just several escape pods on the surface of Taris....just some food for thought.

The Doctor 10-26-2008 12:48 AM

I still see no mention of the Endar Spire being a flagship of any kind. Closest term I see is Capital ship, which =/= flagship. But I guess my comment about this was a minor terminology thing that I picked up on more than anything. It's not really important, even by our nit picky, fan-boy standards. :p

And simply because the crawl says that the fleet was engaging Malak's doesn't mean they were sent there to do so. In fact, Carth said as much, saying that "[they] didn't choose that battle, anyway, it got forced on [them]". They could very well have been on a supply run or patrol, and been ambushed.

As far as Wookiepedia's lack of mention of other ships is concerned; not only is Wookiepedia one of the least credible sources out there, but it can by no means retcon information from the game itself - which clearly states that a fleet was engaged in the battle of Taris.

Also remember that we only see a minuscule part of Taris. The entire planet could have been riddled with escape pods, easily.

Ctrl Alt Del 10-26-2008 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev7 (Post 2544655)
Another thing to think about....why don't we see any more Republic escape pods on the surface of Taris. If there were more than one ship, there would most likely be more escape pods launched with means that there should be more than just several escape pods on the surface of Taris....just some food for thought.

Aren't you forgetting about the escape pods that crashed on the Undercity? We only manage to see one, but there are certainly others around, as stated by the dwellers and Lower City gang members. There's also the crewmembers found on Zelka's Clinic. He says that on the aftermath of the battle, "people started secretly bringing them [the republics] here [the clinic]."

The same can be said of the Jedi battle fleet. We only get to see one cruiser, but that doesn't mean there aren't others - they're simply implicit. And by the time the initial cutscene starts, the battle seems to be ending. We may notice that on the way the Endar Spire looks damaged.

Astor 10-26-2008 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev7 (Post 2544655)
Another thing to think about....why don't we see any more Republic escape pods on the surface of Taris. If there were more than one ship, there would most likely be more escape pods launched with means that there should be more than just several escape pods on the surface of Taris....just some food for thought.

I think you're forgetting that the entire planet is one big city - and we only get to play in a very small part of it. Not all of the escape pods would have landed in the area that we get to see...

Rev7 10-26-2008 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doctor (Post 2544658)
I still see no mention of the Endar Spire being a flagship of any kind. Closest term I see is Capital ship, which =/= flagship. But I guess my comment about this was a minor terminology thing that I picked up on more than anything. It's not really important, even by our nit picky, fan-boy standards. :p

Yes. Looking back on it, I guess that it was just a minor terminology disagreement. :lol:
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doctor (Post 2544658)
And simply because the crawl says that the fleet was engaging Malak's doesn't mean they were sent there to do so. In fact, Carth said as much, saying that "[they] didn't choose that battle, anyway, it got forced on [them]". They could very well have been on a supply run or patrol, and been ambushed.

True, but logically (or in my logic, lol) why would a Republic ship be that close to Taris on a supply run? A planet overrun by the Sith and is obviously a base planet for them. That is just me though. I guess that I should say this again..."desperate effort to halt the Sith's galactic domination".

But doesn't Trask say something about being ambushed by the Sith...some of it doesn't make sense though...
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doctor (Post 2544658)
As far as Wookiepedia's lack of mention of other ships is concerned; not only is Wookiepedia one of the least credible sources out there, but it can by no means retcon information from the game itself - which clearly states that a fleet was engaged in the battle of Taris.

Do you know of any other Star Wars databases other than Star Wars Databank and wookiepedia?
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doctor (Post 2544658)
Also remember that we only see a minuscule part of Taris. The entire planet could have been riddled with escape pods, easily.

Very true.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del (Post 2544724)
Aren't you forgetting about the escape pods that crashed on the Undercity? We only manage to see one, but there are certainly others around, as stated by the dwellers and Lower City gang members. There's also the crewmembers found on Zelka's Clinic. He says that on the aftermath of the battle, "people started secretly bringing them [the republics] here [the clinic]."

The same can be said of the Jedi battle fleet. We only get to see one cruiser, but that doesn't mean there aren't others - they're simply implicit. And by the time the initial cutscene starts, the battle seems to be ending. We may notice that on the way the Endar Spire looks damaged.

Yes. One guy can't remember everything at 10 o'clock at night though. :lol:

The Doctor 10-26-2008 03:30 PM

I always gathered that the Sith took control of Taris after they won the battle in orbit, myself.

jamestl2 10-26-2008 03:51 PM

I'm thinking the same as the Doctor, and had always assumed that Taris fell under Sith control only after the Space Battle that took place at the beginning. And the power and gov't transferring all happened while Revan was unconscious for the past few days, giving them time to prepare.

This was the reason why they declared Martial Law and later destroyed the planet, to search for Bastila and Co. and then later prevent them from escaping.

Also, when the opening crawl states "In the skies above the Outer Rim world of Taris.....", why would they attempt to halt the Sith's domination above Taris at that point in time, being that they were ambushed?

Plus it doesn't specifically say where the ship was heading beforehand, just that they engaged in a battle (presumably because of the ambush), and the Jedi decided to try and stop them right then and there.

Rev7 10-26-2008 08:56 PM

No, I have to say that I disagree with that. Remember that the Sith had quarantined the planet in order to prevent Bastila from escaping. I myself doubt that the Sith could have put at least a million soldiers on the planet in just a few days. I guess that the opening crawl text is a little vague.

That is just my opinion though...

The Doctor 10-26-2008 09:22 PM

If the planet were already under Sith control, they would have already had a great number of soldiers already stationed on-world. They'd have to for a planet-wide city, particularly one that wasn't just non-Sith, but was in fact at one point a Republic world.

Chevron 7 locke 10-27-2008 12:26 AM

It's possible the sith were in the middle of takeing over Taris and the Spire and whatever fleet it may have had was the closest ship to Taris. the Spire may have been going to Taris to counter the Sith attack. Malak may have somehow found out Bastila was on the Spire and knew where the Spire was going so he set the Ambush above Taris

Non-false Jedi 10-27-2008 10:09 AM

Yeah I'd always thught it was part of the failed defence of Taris/. I got the feeling that the Sith control over the planet was rather recent as you walk around.

Veridical 11-18-2008 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke (Post 2543859)
Moving to the K1 forum...

I think the Endar Spire was sacrificed by the Jedi to put 'our hero' into play, with Bastila and Carth meant to be our companions/watchers.

You know, I've always wondered about that. Malak makes a big deal out of how the Jedi weren't being merciful, they just needed you for your memories of the Star Map, and Bastila parrots that to some extent when you confront her at the Temple.

But that doesn't track with how things play out in the beginning of the game. When you first rescue Bastila at the swoop track, she genuinely doesn't seem to know who you are. Now, you could say she's faking it, but Bastila is a very bad liar (this is especially obvious if you play out the romance, but you get hints of it in her other dialog). Plus, she goes on from there to question you about the rescue, and even bring up the possibility of you having Force sensitivity. If she knows about the secret and it's her job to keep it, why even bring that up? And then she pushes the Jedi Council to train you, all "surely you can feel the power of the Force in this wo/man," which I can't see her doing quite so vehemently if she knew she was advocating re-arming the Dark Lord of the Sith.

Add to that the fact that the Jedi Council doesn't even know the Star Map exists until you and Bastila report the dream to them. Of course, they could be lying, but what do they have to gain from that, and why would they send Nemo to his death if they already knew what was in there?

It's always seemed most likely to me that the Council thought, "Revan was a hero, one of our best, and maybe could be again if all that Dark Lord stuff isn't a factor." So they wipe your mind, thinking you've got no memories of Revan and no Force sensitivity left, and stick you in the Republic fleet, where you can gain ranks and achieve prominence and put that tactical brilliance that won the Mandalorian War back into practice. But, just in case those memories do start coming back, they assign you to Bastila, because she's the one who beat you before and they figure she can again if she has to. And given that they're senior Jedi, I can totally believe them doing that to Bastila and not telling her.

That still leaves the question of why Bastila herself doesn't recognize you - maybe the Dark Side really did disfigure you that much, or maybe she never looked under the mask when she took you back to the Jedi - but I still find it far more plausible and consistent with the way the story plays out that the Jedi really thought they'd "given you a second chance" at life and are just as surprised as you by the returning memories of the Star Maps. They're too uninformed, unprepared and divided of opinion on whether to even allow you to undertake the quest for it to have been planned.


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