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DarthMaulUK 10-30-2008 02:57 PM

EA boss man vents again - yawn
 
I found this small piece on VG247.com. EA boss Frank Gibeau, now claims that because Star Wars has 'tens of millions of fans' that means that most of them will play SWTOR - if it has the quality.

I say, what about the content? Read the short piece here

adamqd 10-30-2008 03:10 PM

I think by definition, and what we've seen, that this game is not gonna be anything like KotOR, By Appealing to every Star Wars Fan, they are excluding us, by making it playable on every PC they are making it cheap... time to change the Avatar... maybe I'll wait a bit longer before I declare war

DarthParametric 10-30-2008 03:20 PM

SWG was also supposed to cash in on the massive non-MMO playing SW fanbase and looked what happened to it. TOR won't convert any more non-MMO players than what SWG did. Most normal people don't have the time or inclination to devote to MMOs. It's a very specific market segment you have to cater to. It's why I can see TOR going the same way as SWG - try a SW flavour first to lure in non-MMO playing SW fans and then when that doesn't make the amount of cash LA wants change it into a WOW clone to go after the traditional MMO market. Of course signs point to it being a WOW clone straight off the bat, so maybe we're screwed either way.

Jeff 10-30-2008 03:23 PM

I especially think with all the fans that have been waiting for a KotOR 3, many of them will still try it because it is obvious that we are not getting a SPRPG. I am sure a lot of people do not like that it's an MMO, but it is all kotor fans are getting.

Scars Unseen 10-30-2008 03:32 PM

The fact that EA suits are chiming in on a Bioware game that isn't even in Alpha yet makes me think that, as a significant RPG developer, Bioware is on its last legs. I may be wrong, but usually when the publisher has that tight a rein over the developer, the end product suffers.

I'm starting to go from guardedly optimistic to mildly apathetic.

adamqd 10-30-2008 04:11 PM

Looking back at the announcement Video's, It all seems very scripted and unexciting, The Dr's seemed to not be at all interested. Maybe EA have muscled Bioware to do something they wouldn't want to do?.. I mean look at there previous title's and look at this, doent make sense, Mass Effect to this? weird stuff

Yar-El 10-30-2008 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Moeller (Post 2546818)
I especially think with all the fans that have been waiting for a KotOR 3, many of them will still try it because it is obvious that we are not getting a SPRPG. I am sure a lot of people do not like that it's an MMO, but it is all kotor fans are getting.

It does spark some curiosity in KotOR fans; however, how many of them will actually make the plunge. We will have to wait and see.

BioWare seems very confident. My question is - Why do they keep defending the art and MMO choice if they are confident?

Star Wars: Gallaxies had imploded from making some changes. I don't entirely undertand the changes myself; however, the sudden departure of fans does raise a red flag.

Some of the things BioWare must do to win me over -
(1) Under $10 subscription fee per month. Why? BioWare's Tens of millions of fans statement. BioWare is betting on a large audience; thus, any subscription over $10 a month would be greedy. One dollar from a million fans generates a million dollars a month. Could you add things up if five million fans each paid $20 per month for one year. Greed.

(2) An option that prevents other players from killing me. Why? I don't want to be bothered by other player characters. I only want to interact with npcs, and be able to independantly discover the story behind The Old Republic.

(3) A save option. I don't want to pay into months of progress so that I can't reset if something goes wrong. Money = Time = Progress. Taking away the save option will waste and burn money. Why would I want to play a game where I spend hours on progress, so an insane or angry fan could kill me off. Are we talking about arcades, or are we talking about a pc game? *Insert another quater to start over* Ouch.

(4) Quality graphics, content, and experiences. I'm not paying for Super Mario Kart Online. I want a game that mirrors the originals. I don't want Cartoon Network meets Star Wars. Lame.

They want my cash? Good. Work for my cash. Why? I worked long and hard for my buck; thus, BioWare will have to do some serious work on their end.

Jeff 10-30-2008 04:53 PM

Then I do not think you will be playing the game because I don't see any of your four points happening.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2546851)
(1) Under $10 subscription fee per month. Why? BioWare's Tens of millions of fans statement. BioWare is betting on a large audience; thus, any subscription over $10 a month would be greedy. One dollar from a million fans generates a million dollars a month. Could you add things up if five million fans each paid $20 per month for one year. Greed.

Expect to see the standard $15/month fee. I do not think this is unreasonable at all and yeah while I would love to see low or no fees just like everyone else, I just do not see it happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2546851)
(2) An option that prevents other players from killing me. Why? I don't want to be bothered by other player characters. I only want to interact with npcs, and be able to independantly discover the story behind The Old Republic.

There will probably be certain areas where pvp is enabled and others where it is off, but pvp is definitely going to be a part of the game. You don't have republic and sith factions so they can play nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2546851)
(3) A save option. I don't want to pay into months of progress so that I can't reset if something goes wrong. Money = Time = Progress. Taking away the save option will waste and burn money. Why would I want to play a game where I spend hours on progress, so an insane or angry fan could kill me off. Are we talking about arcades, or are we talking about a pc game? *Insert another quater to start over* Ouch.

They have already said there is no save function and it is unrealistic to expect a save function on an mmo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2546851)
(4) Quality graphics, content, and experiences. I'm not paying for Super Mario Kart Online. I want a game that mirrors the originals. I don't want Cartoon Network meets Star Wars. Lame.

I personally like the stylized graphics but I assume this is what you are referring to by cartoon. Stylized graphics over photo-realistic graphics last much longer because they do not become dated as quickly, and lowers the system requirements which gives the game a much larger audience. The only problem I have with the graphics from the few screenshots I have seen are the lightsaber sizes which they are addressing.

Yar-El 10-30-2008 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Moeller (Post 2546857)
Then I do not think you will be playing the game because I don't see any of your four points happening.

I do have high expectations. I want to see some beta screens. Maybe the graphics will change slightly. We will have to wait and see.

El Sitherino 10-30-2008 05:46 PM

SWoW

DarthParametric 10-30-2008 06:16 PM

I think a lot of KOTOR fans have the same sort of expections or hopes as you Yar-El, which is to say they have no concept of how an MMO works (not to be offensive - it's perfectly reasonable to expect in a KOTOR game, you just ain't going to get it in an MMO). That's one of the reasons why it's such a lame move. The majority of their supposed target market might try it, but I can't see them continuing for long, which is what you want as a developer.

Q 10-30-2008 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Sitherino (Post 2546883)
SWoW

Star Warcrack. :p

Scars Unseen 10-30-2008 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthParametric (Post 2546896)
The majority of their supposed target market might try it, but I can't see them continuing for long, which is what you want as a developer.

Ah, but you assume that we are the target audience, which we are definitely not. The target audiences are MMO players and Star Wars fans, in that order. It has to be, because the likelihood of hooking a gamer that hasn't already fallen for another MMO already is pretty slim. The number of people that actually have KOTOR in their minds other than it being "a pretty good game I played a few years ago" isn't really that big, and certainly not enough to pay for a MMO server for a very long time.

Since the writer for the original KOTOR is busy with other projects(though I suppose he could have worked on it a bit in the past if they really have been working on this for a couple of years), I imagine that there are only two reasons that the game takes place in the Old Republic at all. The Galactic Civil War era is already covered by SWG, and the Old Republic era gives them a more or less blank slate on which to write. The fact that it is not too incredibly distant in events from the KOTOR games is just a matter of circumstance.

All that said, I still plan to give the game a shot(hopefully in Beta). I actually do enjoy MMOs occasionally and even enjoyed WoW for a time. If Bioware can make a game world(galaxy) that is as detailed as WoWs, with combat that feels like it came out of one of the movies(like they claim to be doing) and with good PvP options(I dislike role playing without the option of PvP) then I will probably enjoy it for a while at least. Of course, if it turns into a raidfest like WoW ended up doing, my enjoyment will likely wain as all of my friends get caught up in raid fever. Despite what some people think, you don't need to raid in WoW. There are tons of other things to do if you take the freaking blinders off.

DarthMaulUK 10-31-2008 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd (Post 2546846)
Looking back at the announcement Video's, It all seems very scripted and unexciting, The Dr's seemed to not be at all interested. Maybe EA have muscled Bioware to do something they wouldn't want to do?.. I mean look at there previous title's and look at this, doent make sense, Mass Effect to this? weird stuff

The deal with Bioware was done before EA purchased Bioware. However, EA does have an excellent track record of destroying developers, stopping creativity and then wondering why all their games are rubbish.

Essentially, EA have nothing to do with this game, they just own the studio developing it but because of their rivalry with Activision/Blizzard now, EA are desperate to get in the MMO space big time.

Yes they have WAR, but expect that to only have an average player base of 200,000.

DarthParametric 10-31-2008 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scars Unseen (Post 2547024)
Ah, but you assume that we are the target audience, which we are definitely not.

Actually if you read my earlier post you'll see I don't say that at all. I said they were targeting Star Wars fans in general (as alluded to in the topic article) and are thus doomed to follow SWG down the same path.

adamqd 10-31-2008 09:47 AM

It's gonna be a war, because you've got SWG vets, Current SWG players, KotOR Vets/fans, casual Star Wars Fans, and MMO fans, and none of them want the same thing from this.

I want it to be Star Wars, that's my main concern, see SWG (Which I still play) is not Star Wars in any way shape or form, and was even less so pre-CU, and the main reason for that is player cities, lack of attention to detail, well known Characters acting out of Character, and voice chat. Star Wars is about exiting and dangerous heroic adventures, Ecumenopolis', and ancient mysteries... not crafting bonfa treats and rugs or decorating your house IMO, and this type of thing will split the community. KotOR lovers will be Crying for KotOR III, and SWG vets will be expecting a return of the Pre-CU, I think there all in for a shock

Prime 10-31-2008 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2546851)
(1) Under $10 subscription fee per month. Why? BioWare's Tens of millions of fans statement. BioWare is betting on a large audience; thus, any subscription over $10 a month would be greedy. One dollar from a million fans generates a million dollars a month. Could you add things up if five million fans each paid $20 per month for one year. Greed.

I don't see where you have accounted for any of the costs here. :) New content and big servers and expensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2546851)
(3) A save option. I don't want to pay into months of progress so that I can't reset if something goes wrong. Money = Time = Progress. Taking away the save option will waste and burn money. Why would I want to play a game where I spend hours on progress, so an insane or angry fan could kill me off. Are we talking about arcades, or are we talking about a pc game? *Insert another quater to start over* Ouch.

They have already said they aren't doing this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar-El (Post 2546851)
(4) Quality graphics, content, and experiences. I'm not paying for Super Mario Kart Online. I want a game that mirrors the originals. I don't want Cartoon Network meets Star Wars. Lame.

But those things cost money, and you have already said that you want to pay less than the standard fees.

Char Ell 10-31-2008 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK (Post 2547068)
Essentially, EA have nothing to do with this game, they just own the studio developing it but because of their rivalry with Activision/Blizzard now, EA are desperate to get in the MMO space big time.

But I thought EA was funding TOR. That is what Riccitiello said anyway.

Yar-El 10-31-2008 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prime (Post 2547166)
I don't see where you have accounted for any of the costs here. :) New content and big servers and expensive.

They have already said they aren't doing this.

But those things cost money, and you have already said that you want to pay less than the standard fees.

Yeah. Everything cost something. My posts about The Old Republic reflect my inexperience of such games. I have only seen screnes from Star Wars: Gallaxies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthParametric (Post 2546896)
I think a lot of KOTOR fans have the same sort of expections or hopes as you Yar-El, which is to say they have no concept of how an MMO works (not to be offensive - it's perfectly reasonable to expect in a KOTOR game, you just ain't going to get it in an MMO). That's one of the reasons why it's such a lame move. The majority of their supposed target market might try it, but I can't see them continuing for long, which is what you want as a developer.

None taken. I have come clean before on this subject. I have zero experience with MMOs. Maybe that is why I see things in such a awkward fashion.

DarthMaulUK 10-31-2008 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Char Ell (Post 2547170)
But I thought EA was funding TOR. That is what Riccitiello said anyway.

Technically, they are. They are paying the wages for Bioware staff. However, LucasArts will pay Bioware/EA money for milestones reached.

But unless LucasArts change their distribution rules, Activision/Blizzard will be publishing - and making money from - this game - which simply put pisses EA off.

Yar-El 10-31-2008 05:55 PM

I have a question of a sorts - Why bother venting if you didn't do anything to wow fans? Maybe the announcement was a little premature. I would have done something more to show fans (1) I want them to be exicited (2) Yeah, we let it slip; however, see this trailer, these screens, and game footage. Why? Lets make a good thing come from this. (3) BioWare is excited about this as well. Don't rant about the fans; moreover, don't tick the fans off to the point where it could hurt the company.

Give us something to be wowed. Give us something to reconsider. Don't rant.

Some of my last few posts sound the same. My apology to the public. The subjects are closely interrelated.

Scars Unseen 11-01-2008 12:08 AM

Yar-El: Since you are inexperienced with MMOs, let me tell you about saving. There really isn't a need for it for the most part. It's hard to really "fail" at anything, since you can always try again and again until you succeed. In most MMOs, the only thing lost by a "failure" is time, and possibly a little bit of experience.

There are exceptions to this, however. In Eve Online, if you die you lose your ship and everything in it. Insurance can cover some of the cost, but not even close to all of it when it comes to higher tier equipment. This isn't really a bad thing though, as it provides a natural cash sink to balance the crafter economy. The only time it truly hurts a player to die is when they buy beyond their means, so that they are too broke to replace the ship.

At any rate, TOR isn't likely to have that particular feature(though I would love to be able to collect the lightsabers of the jedi I kill), so you can rest assured that this MMO will work out just fine without a save feature.

Char Ell 11-01-2008 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK (Post 2547268)
Technically, they are. They are paying the wages for Bioware staff. However, LucasArts will pay Bioware/EA money for milestones reached.

But unless LucasArts change their distribution rules, Activision/Blizzard will be publishing - and making money from - this game - which simply put pisses EA off.

Yes, I can see EA not being happy about Activision Blizzard publishing the game in Europe, Oceania, and Asia if that is what is going to happen. I'm curious how the developer/publisher relationships work TOR as the press release doesn't seem to be too clear on this.


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