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-   -   Debt crisis a reflection of 9/11? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=195019)

Jae Onasi 01-07-2009 11:31 PM

Debt crisis a reflection of 9/11?
 
Now, I heard this come up on a talk radio station today, and while I've not formed an opinion on this yet and am not even sure I agree, I thought it was interesting enough to bring up for discussion.

The hypothesis was that the attitude of many Americans changed as a result of 9/11--we became a 'live for the moment' group of people rather than a 'plan for the future' group. 9/11 affected us so deeply that we adopted the 'eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may die' attitude and started spending like crazy. This lead us to overdo credit, seek bigger houses and bigger cars and more stuff than we really could afford, and so forth, and this mass overspending has come back to haunt us now.

Obviously the credit/debt crisis is far more complex than this one issue, but did 9/11 have that level of sociological impact on spending habits?

Achilles 01-07-2009 11:34 PM

I'd have to hear the arguments in-full to respond in kind, but on the surface, I'd have to say that whomever is peddling this is either completely full of crap or conveniently ignoring the last 30+ years of American economics.

The only thing 9/11 did to impact my financial habits was to become much more skeptical about which charities I donate to and/or how they intend to use the money I contribute.

Det. Bart Lasiter 01-07-2009 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles (Post 2575631)
I'd have to say that whomever is peddling this is either completely full of crap or conveniently ignoring the last 30+ years of American economics..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2575629)
talk radio

welp.

Achilles 01-07-2009 11:49 PM

"talk radio" doesn't tell me whether it was "Talk of the Nation" or "Glenn Beck" (though I'd easier believe it to be the latter).

mimartin 01-08-2009 12:11 AM

Wait I thought shopping was patriotic. I believe the President’s brother said something to that effect after 9/11.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeb Bush
"We need to respond quickly so people regain confidence and consider it their patriotic duty to go shopping, go to a restaurant, take a cruise, travel with their family… Frankly, the terrorists win if Americans don’t go back to normalcy."

I can’t find where the President asked the American people to go shopping, but
Quote:

Originally Posted by President Bush
When they struck, they wanted to create an atmosphere of fear. And one of the great goals of this nation's war is to restore public confidence in the airline industry. It's to tell the traveling public: Get on board. Do your business around the country. Fly and enjoy America's great destination spots. Get down to Disney World in Florida. Take your families and enjoy life, the way we want it to be enjoyed.


However, I disagree with the hypothesis of the talk radio talking head. American have been spend happy for years, the only difference this time was banks were willing to loan the consumer more money than they could afford to pay back. There was a time when bank were not as loan happy as the consumer was spend happy.

Now set back and wait for the this is all Obama fault post. :D

Achilles 01-08-2009 12:16 AM

I recently heard that some places were considering re-implementing "Lay-a-way". It was only when I heard this that I realized that it had ever left. About 2 seconds later I realized what a "credit-whore" nation we've become.

Det. Bart Lasiter 01-08-2009 12:34 AM

http://i41.tinypic.com/25oywsz.jpg

Tommycat 01-08-2009 01:34 AM

Yeah dispite the relative good times we had during the 90's, those were somewhat misleading. It was a bubble. We've been heading this way since the late 70's. What 9/11 did was accelerate the affects of the dot-com bubble popping. It was already beginning to rip apart at the seams as early as mid 2000. I agree with Achilles(0.0) that anyone that thinks 9/11 caused this has been out of the financial loop about the past 30 years of economics.

mimartin 01-08-2009 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles (Post 2575648)
I recently heard that some places were considering re-implementing "Lay-a-way". It was only when I heard this that I realized that it had ever left. About 2 seconds later I realized what a "credit-whore" nation we've become.

Last time I remember ‘Lay-A-Ways” was Christmas of 1985. I worked retail at the local mall. The next year, on Christmas break from school, I worked for the same company and they no longer accepted “Lay-A-Ways.” As an Employee of a retail store I hated “Lay-A-Ways.” As a child of a single mother (until I was 9), I loved “Lay-A-Ways.” Without “Lay-A-Ways” I never would have gotten any Christmas.

Achilles 01-08-2009 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin (Post 2575750)
As a child of a single mother, I loved “Lay-A-Ways.” Without “Lay-A-Ways” I never would have gotten any Christmas.

Yup.

Ray Jones 01-09-2009 02:58 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...forums/c-1.jpg

Jae Onasi 01-10-2009 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles (Post 2575639)
"talk radio" doesn't tell me whether it was "Talk of the Nation" or "Glenn Beck" (though I'd easier believe it to be the latter).

Neither, actually. It was a local regular commentator (generally conservative), whose friend apparently had suggested it. He thought it might be an interesting topic for discussion, so he threw it out there for the audience to talk about. I thought it might be an interesting entre to discussing the debt crisis as a whole, and whether or not an event like this can cause a major socioeconomic shift. I think this actually had a start in the 80's and possibly even as early as the '70's--the '87 crash can hardly be blamed on an event that hadn't happened yet, and the "I want it all, and I want it now"/"Greed is good" attitude was well entrenched before 2001.

The excruciatingly difficult thing will be teaching people how to live within their means again. How do you teach that kind of thing to an entire generation who've grown up living on credit cards?
Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin
I loved “Lay-A-Ways.” Without “Lay-A-Ways” I never would have gotten any Christmas.

Dear God, please don't let them bring back the 'blue light specials'....

jrrtoken 01-10-2009 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2576408)
The excruciatingly difficult thing will be teaching people how to live within their means again. How do you teach that kind of thing to an entire generation who've grown up living on credit cards?

Let 'em max their card out by buying vodka and cigarettes. It's the only way they'll learn. :carms:

Achilles 01-10-2009 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2576408)
The excruciatingly difficult thing will be teaching people how to live within their means again. How do you teach that kind of thing to an entire generation who've grown up living on credit cards?

Those that need reminding probably deserve whatever is coming to them.

I have great sympathy for those that have worked hard and struggled for a break. I have almost no sympathy for people who sold their souls to consumerism.


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