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JKAMaster 01-25-2009 01:30 AM

What would have happened after the Dark Side ending? (spoilers)
 
Just speculation but what if Starkiller had killed Vader? The alliance would have never existed, the rebels would have been killed by Palpatine and Starkiller would have been a freak serving the Emperor.

For the Jedi Yoda, Obi Wan, Luke and Leia would have still been out there.

Shem 01-25-2009 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKAMaster (Post 2581357)
Just speculation but what if Starkiller had killed Vader? The alliance would have never existed, the rebels would have been killed by Palpatine and Starkiller would have been a freak serving the Emperor.

For the Jedi Yoda, Obi Wan, Luke and Leia would have still been out there.

It's hard to say since it's just an alternate ending to help bring variety to the game. I'm glad they did it because it's fun to kill Vader sometimes. I don't think it was meant to be thought about past that point, but you do bring up some interesting thoughts and some possible interesting speculation.

I'm glad you made a thread about this as I'm interested in reading what people think. :D

starkiller14 01-25-2009 02:12 AM

probably go try and assasinate the last living jedi like he used to?

JKAMaster 01-25-2009 02:21 AM

I think he would have gone after Leia, since she is the only one of the alliance that lived through the dark ending. With Obi Wan and Yoda on their exile planets she would have been unprotected. Starkiller might have just killed her, or maybe sense her potential and train her as a Sith? Yeah I like that better

Ztalker 01-25-2009 10:11 AM

Maybe he would be strong enough to pretend to attack Leia, save her and go out Hartigan (Sin City) style.

Always found it strange that Vader didn't kill himself shortly after the revelation Padme was dead.

GeneralPloKoon 01-25-2009 12:00 PM

I think because of the echo of the Clone Wars, Starkiller would somehow get the new nickname of New Grievous, call me crazy but I view the Dark Side ending-Starkiller as a substitute for General Grievous for killing Jedi and other tasks the Emperor wouldn't do himself.

TKA-001 01-25-2009 12:37 PM

Starkiller takes Vader's place, and probably becomes military Executor. Like Vader before him, he has no chance of defeating the Emperor on his own (not to say he did in the first place), so he has to run around doing Sidious' dirty work.

However, the rebellion wasn't formed, and might never be formed in the first place. Come 0 BBY, the Death Star is finished, but there isn't a rebellion to steal its plans. The galaxy's Imperialization process would have undoubtedly gone much smoother without any organized rebel groups.

If there is no rebellion to steal the Death Star plans, the droids never arrive on Tatooine, which stands a good chance of postponing old Ben Kenobi's meeting with Luke. If Starkiller ever discovers Luke, he'll undoubtedly try to use him as an apprentice, but since he isn't Luke's father, it might never work.

One way or another, it would probably culminate in a ROTJ-esque confrontation with Starkiller replacing Vader, and probably no organized rebellion. If Luke turns, Starkiller dies. If Luke doesn't beat Starkiller and doesn't turn, he dies. If Luke beats Starkiller and then refuses to turn, he'll die. Starkiller isn't Luke's father, so he's not likely to care whether Palpatine fries him or not, because if Luke won't turn, he's useless to them both.

If not, and Starkiller somehow manages to train Luke as a secret apprentice, then Palpatine kills Starkiller after discovering them, because he knows better than to not do so.

Not sure what happens to Leia, though. She'd probably be dead two years from a stormtrooper firing squad or something by the time the Death Star's completed.

Zerimar Nyliram 01-25-2009 12:38 PM

The Force would have forever remained unbalanced since the Chose One - the only one who could destroy the Sith - was now dead.

This brings up an interesting question, which I posed in another thread: is it even possible for Darth Vader to be killed before he is redeemed and fulfills the prophecy? Is the future set in stone, and Anakin's destiny is therefor already decided and cannot possibly be altered? Or are there many possible futures, and the prophecy of the Chosen One tells of the only hopeful outcome?

TKA-001 01-25-2009 12:46 PM

If the prophecy is true and Anakin/Vader died, then he obviously can't be the Chosen One.

Shem 01-25-2009 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2581463)
The Force would have forever remained unbalanced since the Chose One - the only one who could destroy the Sith - was now dead.

I wouldn't say he was the only one who could, it was just prophesied that he would do it. Mace Windu would have done it if the "Chosen One" didn't interfere. When I was watching ROTS in the theater, I yelled out, "Anakin, kill the Emperor and fulfill the prophecy. That way you can save the galaxy a lot of pain and personal pain for yourself. Then you can leave the Jedi Order and live happily ever after with Padme." I didn't yell it too loud, but the Star Wars fanatics nearby who could hear it were amused by my comment.

But anyway, the prophecy came true because Anakin destroyed the Sith, not because he was the only one who could do it, he just was the one that did do it. ;)

Zerimar Nyliram 01-25-2009 02:26 PM

That makes sense. Thanks.

Zwier Zak 01-25-2009 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shem (Post 2581476)
I wouldn't say he was the only one who could, it was just prophesied that he would do it. Mace Windu would have done it if the "Chosen One" didn't interfere. When I was watching ROTS in the theater, I yelled out, "Anakin, kill the Emperor and fulfill the prophecy. That way you can save the galaxy a lot of pain and personal pain for yourself. Then you can leave the Jedi Order and live happily ever after with Padme." I didn't yell it too loud, but the Star Wars fanatics nearby who could hear it were amused by my comment.

But anyway, the prophecy came true because Anakin destroyed the Sith, not because he was the only one who could do it, he just was the one that did do it. ;)

Now I don't know all the latest canon and all so treat this as pure speculation but I always believed that the force could not be balanced wile the old jedi order exists. "A prophesy witch misread may be" (Yoda?). When Vader killed the Emperor the balanced was restored because the last living jedi was pure of corruption and he (Luke) could now create a new order.

JKAMaster 01-25-2009 07:01 PM

Leia would have been the last rebel who could have formed any resistance, which is why I think they would have gone after her first. I don't think it would have been hard for Palpy or Starkiller to sense she was Vaders daughter if they were around her long with the force. Thus I think she would be the more obvious target than Luke, Luke would still be hidden and trained by Obi Wan but Leia didnt have that luxury.

Shem 01-25-2009 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwier Zak (Post 2581526)
Now I don't know all the latest canon and all so treat this as pure speculation but I always believed that the force could not be balanced wile the old jedi order exists. "A prophesy witch misread may be" (Yoda?). When Vader killed the Emperor the balanced was restored because the last living jedi was pure of corruption and he (Luke) could now create a new order.

George Lucas has stated himself several times that the Force is unbalanced while the Sith are alive.

Think of a food diet. To balance your diet you must have good foods to eat. If you mix in some bad ones, you have imbalanced your diet. That is what the Sith were to the Force. It was like they were a cancer that needed to be cured.

Lucas put in the dialogue of Mace Windu and Yoda doubting it so it wasn't something that was set in everybody's mind that it would just happen and that Anakin would have to be the one. That's human nature for people to think independently and doubt things that are really there. Mace and Yoda were having doubts about Anakin at that time (and for good reason) and when you have doubts, you rethink some of your beliefs. Lucas put that realism in there brilliantly.

Mace Windu almost became the Chosen One ironically. :xp:

"You were the Chosen One! It was said you would destroy the Sith not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"
-- Obi-Wan Kenobi to Anakin Skywalker on Mustafar

Zwier Zak 01-26-2009 04:35 AM

Oh. That's settled then.

JKAMaster 01-27-2009 04:39 AM

Any chance Starkiller would have been able to overthrow the emperor? He would have needed help from Luke or Leia as darksiders to do so I think. Palpy handled him pretty easily.

gallandro 01-27-2009 05:05 AM

I think Leia would have sought out Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan would have then taken Luke. Since Vader is dead, there would be no reason to hide that they're brother and sister.

Obi-Wan would have trained them both, together.

The 3 of them would travel to Dagobah, and train more, under Yoda.

Together, all 4 would eventually try to build the rebellion through other means. Ultimately, Starkiller would be sent to destroy them, but his guilt for the actions on the death would cause him to turn to the rebellion's cause (keep in mind, he didn't join the emperor by choice in that ending).

The 5 of them would go to face the Emperor, under the facade that they were starkiller's prisoners. A battle would break out.

Ultimately, Luke or Leia would be the ones to kill the Emperor. Then Yoda would realize that the prophecy was true... Anakin did bring balance to the force, but not by killing the emperor himself. He brought balance by marrying Padme, having Luke and Leia, who ultimately killed the emperor, turned Starkiller to the goodside, and eliminated the Sith.

Luke, Leia, Starkiller, Obi-wan, and Yoda would then make up the new Jedi Council, and the rebirth of the Republic would begin.

GeneralPloKoon 01-27-2009 02:19 PM

Excellent points, but I doubt it would happen that way...

SW01 01-27-2009 04:08 PM

I think Palpatine would still be as likely to attempt to turn at least one of the Skywalker twins. He knows very well how powerful 'the offspring of Anakin Skywalker' would be. And he wants a new apprentice anyway, Starkiller in the state he is in the DS ending is not a worthy successor. Further, Palpatine would have someone to send after them that would not be distracted by an emotional link.

I think also that rebels would be much more hesitant about showing themselves, with Organa, Mothma, Bel Iblis and Kota all executed by Palpatine. Kenobi would most likely have continued to await the appropriate time to train Luke. Leia may have ended up being either executed, considering that her father was killed as a traitor, or blown up along with Alderaan...but anyway, I think the Emperor would then focus his efforts on finding Luke and Kenobi, without the distraction of full-scale rebellion. And considering the obvious quality of the Empire's spies - able to find four Jedi in hiding - it looks probable that Starkiller would find them. Then, all bets are off. It is shown, though PROXY, that Starkiller had the potential to kill Kenobi even in his prime, but as said, he has no loyalty to Palpatine. It never seemed properly explained why Starkiller would serve Palpatine...

My opinion is, and has been since the game's launch, that the twit should've sided with Palpatine. Ah well...

gallandro 01-28-2009 04:28 AM

OK, how about this.

After the death of her father, Leia goes to her secret labs on Alderaan. There, her scientists show her their newest creations: The Gungoks.

They are the genetic combination of Gungans and Ewoks.

The army of Gungoks (led by a Gungok named Jarwick W. Binket) are put on Rebel starships and taken directly to the Death Star.

The Emperor and his new Apprentice watch as the ships land in the docking bay. As soon as they see the Gungoks step from the ship, the Apprentice lays down his lightsaber and says, "Okay, I'm out. Clearly this species is an unstoppable force and will overcome any Empire, no matter how technologically advanced."

The Emperor snarls and shoots lightning at Jarwick. Jarwick sees the lightning coming his way and screams. His scream startles a nearby stormtrooper, who accidentally misfires his weapon. His shot hits a TIE fighter that is parked in the hanger.

The TIE fighter's panel falls to the ground and rolls across the hanger. Jarwick runs from the panel, screaming, "MESA THINK THE STARCRUISER CRASH!" The panel rolls past him, and crashes into a generator on the wall. The generator explodes and sends electrical sparks throughout the hanger. The sparks are attracted to the metal armor of the Stormtroopers. It fries them all.

Jarwick looks at the Emperor and says, "Eechowawa. Mesa berry sorry."

Enraged, the Emperor looks at Jarwick and says, "And now, powerful native creature... you will die..."

Panicked, Jarwick pulls a slingshot from his backpack. He puts a small, glowing marble in the sling shot and pulls it back.

The Emperor laughs. "What is this?" he asks. "Do you seriously think that in a galaxy that has Death Stars and the Force and Lightsabers and Laser blasters, you'll be able to stop me with a simple--"

Jarwick shoots the slingshot in the direction of the Emperor, hitting him directly between the eyes. The Emperor falls to the ground, dead.

Starkiller walks back into the room and looks at the Emperor's body. He then looks up at Leia. "Hey," he says. "Sorry about the whole killing your dad thing."

"Dads," Leia says. "I found a holo at the house where my adopted father told me that Vader was my birth father."

"Oh," Starkiller says. "Geeze. This is awkward."

"Yeah," Leia says.

"So," Starkiller says, "does that prevent you from going to dinner with me? There's a really cool diner near the detention level. It's called Tatooine Graffiti."

"You killed both of my fathers!" Leia says.

"Technically," Starkiller says, "I just killed Vader. And he was kind of a deadbeat dad."

"Good point," Leia says. "So that diner's pretty good?"

"It's great," Starkiller says as they walk from the hanger.

Jarwick throws his hands in the air and yells, "WESA GONNA EAT AT A DINER!"

....

Meanwhile, across the galaxy, Han Solo sits in a cantina with Chewbacca. "I sure wish we had a way to make the money to pay Jabba what we owe him. It would rock if some old guy would hire us to take a kid and some droids to Alderaan, and offer to pay us way more than the trip is worth..."

Chewie roars.

"Yeah," Han says. "I know. That's just a stupid pipe dream."

Greedo shows up and says, "Going some--"

Han shoots Greedo.

Chewie roars.

"Yeah," Han says. "Of course I shot him. I'm a pirate. Why wouldn't I shoot first? That's stupid, Chewie."

They walk out to Docking Bay 94, where Jabba is waiting. Jabba asks Han for his money. Han says that he doesn't have it and doesn't really see any chance that he'll get it.

Jabba has all the bounty hunters there to shoot Han dead.

Chewie cries.

Credits roll.

(obviously, I'm kidding)

SW01 01-28-2009 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallandro (Post 2582419)
OK, how about this.
~snipped~

:rofl:

That's great!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallandro (Post 2582419)
"Yeah," Han says. "Of course I shot him. I'm a pirate. Why wouldn't I shoot first? That's stupid, Chewie."

QFT

TKA-001 01-28-2009 10:09 AM

Quote:

Leia may have ended up being either executed, considering that her father was killed as a traitor, or blown up along with Alderaan...
I can't imagine anything happening to Leia other than execution shortly after the Battle on the Death Star. As for the "possibly blown up on Alderaan" idea... In order for Leia to be destroyed with Alderaan, there would have to be two Leias - one who stays on Alderaan, and another who joins a rebellion that doesn't exist in order to steal the Death Star plans, and then gets captured and brought to the Death Star, where Tarkin decides that the only way to get her to tell the location the nonexistent rebel main base is to threaten her home planet of Alderaan. You've just created a time paradox.

Quote:

It is shown, though PROXY, that Starkiller had the potential to kill Kenobi even in his prime
Uhh, no. PROXY showed that Starkiller had the potential to defeat a droid that looked like Kenobi.

Quote:

It never seemed properly explained why Starkiller would serve Palpatine...
Same reason Vader did. If he refused, Palpatine would kill him, and he wants revenge on Palpatine anyway (for not letting him die, among other things), so that's a motivation.

DarthYuugi 01-30-2009 03:19 PM

This is really intresting how this is turning out

I Think Starkiller could have a Redemption and Try to kill Sidious

Sidious would Pwn him but It would make so Sidious has no Apprentice :D
Luke and Leia would Then confront Sidious with out a Apprentice and kill him

Bam the galaxy is restored :)

Klw 08-03-2009 03:26 AM

So is the general consensus that Palpatine would own Starkiller in any fight and that he was just playing with Galen when he was defeated? When I was playing the game, I seriously thought that Palpatine was down. I guess I could ask the same question about the Windu battle. Was Palpatine pretending, or was Windu seriously overpowering him? It's so confusing because I know that feigning defeat is a major part of his conversion tactics.

Anyway, I thought that Marek was the real deal after he defeated Palpatine in my first play through. Now, though, I'm not so sure.

The situation parallels Palpatine's attempt to convert Luke exactly, except for the fact that Luke didn't have to actually fight him first.

One thing that the Luke episode proves, though, is that Starkiller would own Luke any day. They both defeated Vader and refused the Emperor's offer to go to the dark side. When the Emperor tried to eliminate them, Luke just took the lightning and ended up in a wheelchair. Marek, on the other hand, actually reflected the lightning like Yoda.

I just keep wondering what would have happened if there were no stormtroopers rushing in. How much longer could Marek have kept it up? Was he going to die anyway, or could he have kept fighting?

Darth Eclipse 08-03-2009 01:24 PM

I guess we will all find out what happens in The Ultimate Sith Edition.

Weavel 08-09-2009 09:45 PM

Some how the rebellion is formed because Luke gets to Hoth...

WraithPrince 08-10-2009 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2581431)
Always found it strange that Vader didn't kill himself shortly after the revelation Padme was dead.

The moment he became Vader was the moment he stopped being a Emo Git.

(i mean put the suit on)

Zwier Zak 08-10-2009 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WraithPrince (Post 2661259)
The moment he became Vader was the moment he stopped being a Emo Git.

(i mean put the suit on)

I can see we think alike :thmbup1:

JKAMaster 08-15-2009 06:08 PM

Leia must be the founder of the Alliance, because she is the only rebel that survived the Dark ending.

Agincourt 08-23-2009 09:35 PM

I think the Emperor, arrogant as he was to think he could control Starkiller, will be betrayed. He would never obey Palpatine.

GeneralPloKoon 08-23-2009 11:56 PM

It is the Sith way to betray their masters...

Agincourt 08-24-2009 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WraithPrince (Post 2661259)
The moment he became Vader was the moment he stopped being a Emo Git.

(i mean put the suit on)

Darth Vader might have been a great villain, but after TFU, he shows his true colors as an obedient lackey. I lost all respect for him when he said that he never intended to use Starkiller except to fulfill his master's will.

Ztalker 08-25-2009 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2581463)
The Force would have forever remained unbalanced since the Chose One - the only one who could destroy the Sith - was now dead.

This brings up an interesting question, which I posed in another thread: is it even possible for Darth Vader to be killed before he is redeemed and fulfills the prophecy? Is the future set in stone, and Anakin's destiny is therefor already decided and cannot possibly be altered? Or are there many possible futures, and the prophecy of the Chosen One tells of the only hopeful outcome?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKAMaster (Post 2662896)
Leia must be the founder of the Alliance, because she is the only rebel that survived the Dark ending.

Both interesting...
There is another way to see the prophecy though. Maybe Vader DID bring balance to the force by training Starkiller. And Starkiller brining balance himself. It's like Shem said...Vader just didn't do it in a direct way.

I am wondering how the rebel alliance coul excist in Ultimate Sith Edition though. I find it hard to believe Leia could do the same as Bel Iblis, Mothma and Organa...

We'll see when the game hits the shops. :)

Weavel 09-03-2009 10:12 AM

Well originally Leia was the founder, blame Post-ROTJ writings...

Zwier Zak 09-03-2009 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2666373)
Both interesting...
There is another way to see the prophecy though. Maybe Vader DID bring balance to the force by training Starkiller. And Starkiller brining balance himself. It's like Shem said...Vader just didn't do it in a direct way.

So it's Qui-Gon who's brining balance because it's him who trained Obi-Wan, who trained Anakin, who then becomes Vader, who trained Starkiller who kills the Emperor? :thmbup1:

I think this dark side ending Idea is just plain stupid. Look how easily the iconic characters are being turned into target practice in this game. Boba Fet, Obi-Wan, Luke. It just makes the SW universe unappealing.

DAWUSS 09-30-2009 06:04 PM

The Empire would have had some split, and there would have been a civil war within the Empire. Think the warlords of the Imperial Remnant, only a bit more organized. Since the Empire is led by the Sith, who need a common enemy to stay united...

Zerimar Nyliram 10-10-2009 10:45 AM

Wish we could have seen a continuation of the dark side ending to Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II.

Zwier Zak 10-15-2009 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2680101)
Wish we could have seen a continuation of the dark side ending to Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II.

That's my kind of reply! :thmbup1:

Giant Graffiti 10-15-2009 07:56 PM

"You killed my father!"

"Yes."

That just makes the whole scene worse. :p

JKAMaster 11-06-2009 04:58 AM

Okay time to bring this back.

Luke has become the apprentice of Starkiller, Yoda is still alive, Leia and Han are still alive. The Rebels have been decimated on Hoth, what's left of them will be regrouping going into ROTJ.

Luke is lost to the Dark Side. Leia is the only hope left for the Jedi, I think she goes to train with Yoda after Ben's spirit leads her there.

Meanwhile Starkiller will use Luke to destroy Palpatine. Maybe he will track Leia down and kill Yoda on Dagobah, setting up a Luke vs Leia final battle? With Starkiller taking the winner as his full apprentice.

Oh and before anyone gripes about giving the Hoth ending away, spoiler warning is in the thread title.


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