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-   -   Rogue_Nine (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=195936)

Adavardes 02-21-2009 02:33 PM

Rogue_Nine
 
Let me begin first and foremost by saying that I am in no way implicating that the LFN staff, as a whole, comprising of each and every member in it, is in some way guilty of wrong-doing. I am fairly confident that by and large, the majority of the staff does their job and is given fair and honest treatment on par with other members. This is a formal complaint in regards to a singular member of staff, and is in no way meant to be associated with others, though the evidence I have compiled may implicate otherwise, a factor I cannot control, nor have endeavored to involve. Though I do intend to address other issues with other separate cases observed on LFN in the near future, I wish this to stand as an isolated request, and to not be tied to further inquiries I may have. I have attempted to be fair and honest with the individuals I have spoken to, have tried to be as objective to the situation as I possibly could, and strived to keep my personal opinion and bias away from the matter. If I have failed to do so, I apologise. Now, on to the matter at hand.

It has come to my attention during my involvement on LFN, which has been spent entirely in the Knights of the Old Republic section of the forums, that a certain member of staff, Rogue_Nine, has the common propensity for violating a clear and often enforced rule against the flaming of other members of the forums. I myself have been a victim of these attacks on three separate occasions, and have consequently reported the posts, which have been deleted. I wish to express my gratitude for this prompt action, and recognize that the issue was resolved, somewhat, for my personal qualms. However, it is obvious that I am fairly new to this forum, and know relatively little about its past. When having a conversation with a close friend who has been here much longer than I have, I was lead to believe that the issues with Rogue_Nine’s verbal attacks have been long-standing on the forum, and that though the reports were typically heeded, punishment was not given in proportion to the crime in the case of this particular admin. I took the liberty of gathering testimonials from members that have experienced similar cases of flaming at the hands of Rogue_Nine, verifying their willingness to be quoted in this complaint so as to preserve their personal privacy, asking the following questions:

Quote:

1. Has Niner ever flamed you openly, and if so, how many times did he do so?

2. Was he disciplined in a way that you could see for this flaming?

3. How long ago was the first offense against you made, and how long ago was disciplinary action taken?
The following responses have been given freely by the members in question; however, I will not be releasing their names until they give full permission for me to do so in this thread:

Quote:

1. The thing is, he prefers to go with passive aggressive attacks, and when he does outright flame and I report it, the post is gone by the time I go to find it again.

2. I have NEVER seen any form of discipline beyond the deletion of the post in question, which I do not feel is a satisfactory punishment for such an act.. Other members have the flaming content removed and a warning or infraction issued. Niner has never received a public warning to my knowledge, nor has he received an infraction.

3. I've seen R9, Jmac, Sithy, and their other little buddies flame, spam, and show a general lack of respect for anyone else ever since I first joined years ago.
Quote:

1. Yes, and I lost count the number of times
2. First offense was in October 2008, the last offense was less than a week ago. R9 was never publically punished.
I read the testimonials thoroughly, and came to the conclusion that, based on the respective seniority of each member, the age of each of their offenses, and of their collective lack of seeing any public discipline being taken against Rogue_Nine, I am logically lead to believe that if punishment was enacted, it was done so behind closed doors. This does not appropriately align with the member policy of punishment, which is, quoted verbatim from the forum rules thread:

Quote:

Spamming, cussing, and flaming

A person who flames others, spams, or uses excessively foul language will first receive a public warning in the thread in which any of these offenses occurred. The staff, at its sole discretion, may also take any other appopriate measures.
If the person does not correct their behavior a final warning will be given via private messaging. If the person still persists he/she will be temporarily banned for a duration the staff deems suitable.
Furthermore, I have posts of Niner in a debate setting openly flaming, provoking, and threatening power against a common member. Certain posts were made in a similar fashion by myself and others, and they were deleted, as they rightfully should be, yet these still exist:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost....8&postcount=21
http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost....2&postcount=59

I approached a member of staff to inquiry whether or not disciplinary action had been taken against him, publically or privately, and I received a vague and dodgy response, stating that action had been taken, but no more specifics could be given to me. During another testimonial involving a member with seniority greater than my own, I was informed that Rogue_Nine had been demoted from his position in the past, an action that had been public by its very nature. When in inquiry with another member of the forums, who has been with LFN for four years, and was banned and went into self-imposed exile only to return a year ago, he informed me that he had no recollection of Rogue_Nine being demoted. This leads me to believe that the demotion must have occurred either before the member’s presence on LFN, or during his exile, which would place the demotion a year in the past, at the very least.

In the interests of objectivity, I have given adequate lease of personal opinion to the staff to keep minor violations of the rules committed by a staff member quiet, so as to preserve the integrity and image of the staff as a whole. But, given the length of time this has been occurring, and due to the fact that it is still happening on a regular basis, I believe it to be in the best interests of the members of this forum, and the integrity of the staff, to take a more drastic and fairer course of action for the violations committed by Rogue_Nine. If he has been demoted in the past, given the frequency of his following crimes, discipline that is of a public nature in itself should have been given at a much earlier time than the present date, and should therefore still be given today. I formally request that Rogue_Nine be scrutinized more harshly for his repetition of crimes, and, in the interests of equality for members, be given a suitable punishment on par with any member of this forum.

I would like to apologise if I have offended or upset anyone with this thread, as it was not my intended purpose. I only wish to see proper and equal justice done for the crimes allotted. I am not out to break rules or start a revolution. I am more than happy to admit that I am no saint in this, and that I have, myself, been guilty of flaming, but was appropriately penalized by staff and made efforts not to repeat my violations. Given the evidence I have provided, I don’t feel as if the treatment given to Niner was equal to the punishment I received, which is why I have made this thread. Thank you for your time.

Kj°len 02-21-2009 03:17 PM

1. Every day I am abused by Rogue Nine. Verbally, emotionally, sexually. I can't imagine why, since I've done nothing to offend him, but I can't stay away from him. It's like, I need the security, you know? I need to know he's there.

2. No, he's never disciplined. He attacks me like as if in a drunken stupor and causes great pain to me and my loved ones. Still, I can't find myself letting him go. I think it would hurt him more than me to stay away from him, and I don't want to hurt him.

3. For the first few days, he seemed like a genuinely friendly person. He took me in with his warm charisma and made me feel welcomed. Then his jokes and sexual jabs become more intimate... dirtier. I started to feel violated every day. But the original comfort I felt still lingers, and I can't tear myself away from him as a person.

I know that he's not the perfect person, but I think he'll change if we just show him how much he's loved. Please, he doesn't deserve punishment, just... give him some more time.

EnderWiggin 02-21-2009 03:23 PM

Is it my place to respond to this? Probably not. But since this is a public feedback forum, I intend to give my point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592422)
This does not appropriately align with the member policy of punishment, which is, quoted verbatim from the forum rules thread:

Did you see the part that said "at the Staff's sole discretion"?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes
Furthermore, I have posts of Niner in a debate setting openly flaming, provoking, and threatening power against a common member. Certain posts were made in a similar fashion by myself and others, and they were deleted, as they rightfully should be, yet these still exist:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost....8&postcount=21
http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost....5&postcount=20
http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost....2&postcount=59

The first is bullcrap, because he's in fact moderating in the alleged "flame." He says he is not going to allow the blatant offtopic nature of Garfy's posts in that thread to continue. Baw.

The second isn't even posted by him :confused:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes
I was informed that Rogue_Nine had been demoted from his position in the past, an action that had been public by its very nature. When in inquiry with another member of the forums, who has been with LFN for four years, and was banned and went into self-imposed exile only to return a year ago, he informed me that he had no recollection of Rogue_Nine being demoted. This leads me to believe that the demotion must have occurred either before the member’s presence on LFN, or during his exile, which would place the demotion a year in the past, at the very least.

Whoever this is must have joined a few months after I did, but let me be quite clear when I say that you should get your facts straight before accusing. This occurrence did not happen more than a year ago. It happened since you were a member here, so perhaps you and your 'informant' should be more careful.


Too bad you didn't ask me those three questions, because Niner's never bothered me.

_EW_

Adavardes 02-21-2009 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin (Post 2592452)
Did you see the part that said "at the Staff's sole discretion"?

Yes I did. It stated that after the basic punishment was given, the staff could then add to it at their discretion. If I am misreading, I apologise, but I do believe it states that everyone be given one public and one private warning before recieving more severe punishment, but that more may be added if the staff member involved wishes to. I also stated that I give lease to staff to keep the punishment of a staff member quiet to a certain extent for obvious reasons, but I do believe that extent has been breached, if my evidence holds true.

Quote:

The second isn't even posted by him
So it isn't. My apologies, I must have mixed up links. It's been removed.

EnderWiggin 02-21-2009 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592456)
Yes I did. It stated that after the basic punishment was given, the staff could then add to it at their discretion. If I am misreading, I apologise, but I do believe it states that everyone be given one public and one private warning before recieving more severe punishment, but that more may be added if the staff member involved wishes to. I also stated that I give lease to staff to keep the punishment of a staff member quiet to a certain extent for obvious reasons, but I do believe that extent has been breached, if my evidence holds true.

Well, perhaps, since you're not omniscient, you didn't see the warnings? Perhaps, (and I don't know because I'm not staff) it's difficult to give a public warning if you delete the post?

Perhaps the punishment does not need to be public, since it never has been? Perhaps it's done over the PM system and infractions, just like everyone else?

Perhaps you have no idea what you're talking about?

_EW_

Kj°len 02-21-2009 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592456)
Yes I did. It stated that after the basic punishment was given, the staff could then add to it at their discretion. If I am misreading, I apologise, but I do believe it states that everyone be given one public and one private warning before recieving more severe punishment, but that more may be added if the staff member involved wishes to. I also stated that I give lease to staff to keep the punishment of a staff member quiet to a certain extent for obvious reasons, but I do believe that extent has been breached, if my evidence holds true.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592456)
I also stated that I give lease to staff to keep the punishment of a staff member quiet to a certain extent for obvious reasons, but I do believe that extent has been breached, if my evidence holds true.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592456)
I also stated that I give lease to staff to keep the punishment of a staff member quiet.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592456)
I give lease to staff

And where did the staff give lease to you, to give them their own freedoms?

EnderWiggin 02-21-2009 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kj°len (Post 2592461)
And where did the staff give lease to you, to give them their own freedoms?

For their site, no less?

_EW_

Adavardes 02-21-2009 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin (Post 2592458)
Perhaps the punishment does not need to be public, since it never has been? Perhaps it's done over the PM system and infractions, just like everyone else?

I agree, infractions are better suited as punishment, as they are also public. You can go to the statistics page on a user's profile, and pull up how many referrals, both good and bad, that a user has been given. These include infractions, as I have two infractions, and my profile registers two referrals. Niner has precisely 0 referrals at the present time.

EnderWiggin 02-21-2009 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592463)
I agree, infractions are better suited as punishment, as they are also public. You can go to the statistics page on a user's profile, and pull up how many referrals, both good and bad, that a user has been given. These include infractions, as I have two infractions, and my profile registers two referrals. Niner has precisely 0 referrals at the present time.

Infractions, AFAIK, are private, and only can be seen on your personal profile. Staff: if referrals = infractions, let me know.

_EW_

Jeff 02-21-2009 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592463)
I agree, infractions are better suited as punishment, as they are also public. You can go to the statistics page on a user's profile, and pull up how many referrals, both good and bad, that a user has been given. These include infractions, as I have two infractions, and my profile registers two referrals. Niner has precisely 0 referrals at the present time.

Referrals are how many people have entered your username when registering at Lucasforums as their referrer. Nothing to do with infractions.

acdcfanbill 02-21-2009 03:42 PM

Niner always stops abuse of me when I give the safe word, perhaps you didn't set a safe word? also, make sure your safe word isn't 'stop', or 'harder' as those can get confused easily.

Adavardes 02-21-2009 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Moeller (Post 2592469)
Referrals are how many people have entered your username when registering at Lucasforums as their referrer. Nothing to do with infractions.

Ah, my mistake. I withdraw my statement, then.

GarfieldJL 02-21-2009 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592471)
Ah, my mistake. I withdraw my statement, then.

To jump in briefly from a technical standpoint because Rogue Nine is an admin I don't think he can be given infractions. Least that's how it is on most web boards.

Kj°len 02-21-2009 03:47 PM

It seems the crux of the problem here is that you want people to have very, very public punishments. All your arguments continue to boil down to "punish them publicly." You seem to have some sort of fix on getting the people you don't like publicly humiliated or else you would have just kept this entire matter in private with the staff, as many staff members have repeatedly urged you to do.

EnderWiggin 02-21-2009 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarfieldJL (Post 2592474)
To jump in briefly from a technical standpoint because Rogue Nine is an admin I don't think he can be given infractions. Least that's how it is on most web boards.

Thanks for your technical expertise. :rolleyes:

_EW_

Astor 02-21-2009 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kj°len (Post 2592476)
It seems the crux of the problem here is that you want people to have very, very public punishments. All your arguments continue to boil down to "punish them publicly." You seem to have some sort of fix on getting the people you don't like publicly humiliated or else you would have just kept this entire matter in private with the staff, as many staff members have repeatedly urged you to do.

Public punishments are not the way to go. We don't live in the dark ages.

I do agree that it should be kept private.

Mav 02-21-2009 03:50 PM

tl;dr version: :rolleyes:

Adavardes 02-21-2009 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kjølen (Post 2592476)
It seems the crux of the problem here is that you want people to have very, very public punishments. All your arguments continue to boil down to "punish them publicly." You seem to have some sort of fix on getting the people you don't like publicly humiliated or else you would have just kept this entire matter in private with the staff, as many staff members have repeatedly urged you to do.

Not so. I just wish for him to recieve the punishments I and others have recieved, which have often been public. If it is there prerogative to handle punishments publically, then it is my personal opinion that all members, regardless of staff status, should recieve similar punishment. Again, this is my personal opinion on a formal complaint expressing a lack of justice, in my eyes, with one member of staff.

If someone can show me that I am wrong, and that he has been punished appropriately, I'll withdraw my statement.

EnderWiggin 02-21-2009 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592481)
Not so. I just wish for him to recieve the punishments I and others have recieved, which have often been public. If it is there prerogative to handle punishments publically, then it is my personal opinion that all members, regardless of staff status, should recieve similar punishment. Again, this is my personal opinion on a formal complaint expressing my personal issues with one member of staff.

I've never seen you be punished in public.

Sorry :(

_EW_

Astor 02-21-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592481)
If someone can show me that I am wrong, and that he has been punished appropriately, I'll withdraw my statement.

But that won't happen, because if he has been punished, it's between himself and the staff - it's no-one else's business, no matter how much they concern themself with it.

jonathan7 02-21-2009 03:59 PM

This whole thread is based on bad assumption, and incomplete deduction of evidence.

Quote:

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts". – Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s detective Sherlock Holmes.
As such who says sanctions haven't happened? Maybe you aren't paying enough attention to all the forums. Regardless discussion of if any member has been disciplined has never been a public matter, and as such never will be public knowledge.

Kj°len 02-21-2009 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes (Post 2592481)
Not so. I just wish for him to recieve the punishments I and others have recieved, which have often been public. If it is there prerogative to handle punishments publically, then it is my personal opinion that all members, regardless of staff status, should recieve similar punishment. Again, this is my personal opinion on a formal complaint expressing a lack of justice, in my eyes, with one member of staff.

If someone can show me that I am wrong, and that he has been punished appropriately, I'll withdraw my statement.

By public punishment, do you mean you've been told off by a staff member for the content of your posts? Because anyone can (and does) do that. There's also no way to make deletion or posts, thread closes, and content editing private, though.

EDIT: A close friend of mine, Wacky_Baccy, has asked me to post this on his behalf:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wacky_Baccy
At last. Adavardes, I really want to thank you so much for all the effort and time you've put into compiling and framing this thread. It must have taken you a very long time, and I hope that didn't cause you too little inconvenience. It's about time that someone stood up to ask why this flagrant abuse of power has gone on unchecked for so long. It seems that everywhere you look these days, those in power are protecting their own, and nothing we say or do has any effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes
1. Has Niner ever flamed you openly, and if so, how many times did he do so?

Oh, good heavens, yes. I can't even begin to count the number of times that I've had eyebrow-removing incendiaries hurled at me by Rouge Nine, for no apparent reason whatsoever, with nothing ever being done about it. Some of them had me in tears, but the few times I reported anything, nothing was ever done, and he was left free to continue. This has been happening on and off for at least the past four years, and likely longer, although I'd have to search for anything further back than that. Needless to say, this type of behaviour from Rouge_Nine is nothing new, and I have personally seen many people suffer directly or indirectly from his sexist, homophobic, and racist attitudes and behaviour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes
2. Was he disciplined in a way that you could see for this flaming?

I can honestly say that I've never seen him officially reprimanded on these forums, all the way since I joined in 2001. Howerver, there was this one time that I and a German associate of mine with certain... skills (best not talked about; she learned the from her grandfather) decided to take things into our own hands, and -- let me tell you -- Rouge_Nine did not forget that particular chastisement in a hurry. He squealed like a little girl during the procedure, and I'm sure he remembers it to this very day. Thankfully, there were only two witnesses, and we were able to buy their silence with chocolate-coated toffees (seriously. Don't ask, I don't know). Unfortunately, my associate's only SS uniform was at the cleaners, and the effect of her riding crop was unfortunately much diminished without the crisply tailored uniform to back it up. I'm sure we got our points across, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adavardes
3. How long ago was the first offense against you made, and how long ago was disciplinary action taken?

I guess by now it must be coming up on about six years, so it would definitely be a case of abuse against a minor by an adult. He has a sick and deranged mind, and frequently spews racist, homophobic, and sexist remarks, and makes lewd advances towards underage users of both sexes. I'm not quite sure how I'd explain his abuse of me by pointing on a doll, though, as they tend to be anatomically lacking for the kinds of things he made me suffer.

As I mentioned, his vituperative outbursts frequently cost me my eyebrows, so I eventually resigned myself to painting them on, but you wouldn't believe how hard it is to find a skin-friendly, non-flammable paint around here. The amount I've had to spend on moisturisers and coverup to reduce the effect of the paint has all but bankrupt me, so I'm strongly considering suing him for years of mental, emotional, and financial damage. I hear he has connections with powerful lawyers, though, so I'm steeling myself for a long, hard battle, which I realise that, through the injustices of the system and the tendency of those in power to "look after their own", I might never win.

Adavardes, your post has given me renewed hope and faith that this dangerous and abusive person might finally be brought to justice, and you have my most sincere gratutude for posting this, so that things that have needed to be said for a very long time could finally be put out in the open.


Darth333 02-21-2009 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan7
This whole thread is based on bad assumption, and incomplete deduction of evidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astor Kaine (Post 2592484)
But that won't happen, because if he has been punished, it's between himself and the staff - it's no-one else's business, no matter how much they concern themself with it.

Bingo.

We do read members' concerns when we receive them, discuss them and take action when we deem it appropriate. Such a thread was really unnecessary...

matt-- 02-21-2009 04:07 PM

Regarding the posts you referenced:
Re: Franken thread
I'm assuming you're referring to the second part where deletion of Obama/media posts is threatened...those are probably off-topic in a Franken election thread.

Re: Gay Marriage thread
I back up what was said. If you read the entire thread, the user he was quoting was continuously using fallacious arguments. Some of the post is borderline, but nothing I would bother acting on.


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