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Demongo 06-23-2009 08:21 AM

Executor vs. any other ship from the KotOR
 
If someone didn't know, the Executor is Vader's personal Super Star Destroyer
And it is big..........very big:
Show spoiler

So can you find any Cruiser/ Star Destroyer from the Kotor era that could destroy it?
Of course if an entire fllet would attack it at once it would be destroyed, but I am thinking of a one on one "combat":D
So let's clarify things first:
Both ships are working at 100% capacity, without ANY damages. They don't have any aid, except the fighters they can carry inside the Hangar. We are in deep space, no planet/space station/asteroid field is near. So? What do you think? Is it possible to destroy it or not?

EDIT: Oh I don't know what happened to the title. Sorry I meant "Executor vs. any other ship from the KotOR era"

Darth_Yuthura 06-23-2009 09:11 AM

Why do people make all these comparisons that can't really be compared?

4000 years ago, they had technology that was essentially superior to that from 4000 years in the future. They had personal stealth generators, thermal detonators, disruptors, and touchscreens. Some of these already existed in the original trilogy, but they still hadn't perfected cloaking devices for small ships, nor invented touchscreens in the future. This kind of argument is a paradox of future technology being inferior to past technology because the KOTOR era was created after the original trilogy era.

I would say that there are a very wide range of possibilities when you say 'yes,' but that 'no' means that there are 4000 year's worth of ships that can't rival Executor in their prime.

The Betrayer 06-23-2009 09:14 AM

Not any one ship.

A fleet of hammerheads with an Inexpungable-class command ship? Maybe.

R2-X2 06-23-2009 09:27 AM

I don't think so.
Most of all KotOR era ships have up to 100 lasers, but not more, and the Executor has more than 1000. Thats a slight difference...

Ultimate Vader 06-23-2009 09:34 AM

No ship can.

R2-X2 06-23-2009 10:09 AM

Well, none of the KotOR era, but not "no ship" at all... think of the Home One or the Lusankya...

Ultimate Vader 06-23-2009 10:13 AM

^I mean from the KOTOR era. Of course I know there are ships who can destroy Executor in other era.

R2-X2 06-23-2009 10:43 AM

And I knew what you meant and knew.

Insignia_Enithma 06-23-2009 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2-X2 (Post 2638904)
I don't think so.
Most of all KotOR era ships have up to 100 lasers, but not more, and the Executor has more than 1000. Thats a slight difference...

Source?

jonathan7 06-23-2009 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insignia_Enithma (Post 2638985)
Source?

Given this was one of the top ship designs of the time, it is clear, given how dwarfed the Leviathan is by the Executor; I can't believe you a seriously questioning a Source on this however...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wookiepedia
The Leviathan was a 600 meter-long Interdictor-class Cruiser, capable of wrenching ships out of hyperspace with the use of its four gigantic gravity-well projectors. While primitive by later standards, it was the pinnacle of interdiction technology in its time. It was also equipped with 20 quad laser cannons, a tractor beam projector, four turbolaser batteries and two ion cannons.

Compared with the Executor...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Executor
Designed by starship engineer Lira Wessex as a successor to the original Imperial-class Star Destroyer, the Executor, at a monumental 19,000 meters in length, represented the largest traditional warship the galaxy had ever seen by the time of its completion. The Executor bristled with more than 5,000 weapon emplacements, enough firepower to blast any planetary surface to slag in hours, and a military complement capable of annihilating any ground installation.

Indeed given that there is some 4,000 years of technological gain, I would doubt any KotOR era ship would beat an average Star Destroyer, let alone the Executor...

Links;

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imper...Star_Destroyer
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

You can check the sources if you really want, but it would seem to me a matter of logic that a 19 kilometre long ship would have a lot more guns than a 600 meter long one...

Lord of Hunger 06-23-2009 12:13 PM

It's like saying that the 4000 year old predecessor of the modern Star Destroyer could destroy a modern Super Star Destroyer. Not happening.

The Ebon Hawk, however, might be fast enough to pull off a Rebel Alliance feat and destroy the Bridge. Or the crew gets captured, rescued, and kills whatever Saul Karath is in charge. ;)

Demongo 06-23-2009 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2638998)
It's like saying that the 4000 year old predecessor of the modern Star Destroyer could destroy a modern Super Star Destroyer. Not happening.

The Ebon Hawk, however, might be fast enough to pull off a Rebel Alliance feat and destroy the Bridge. Or the crew gets captured, rescued, and kills whatever Saul Karath is in charge. ;)

The first person who thinks about other ships, not just the Leviathan or Hammerhead cruisers:D I said "ship" in the title not "cruiser" or "Star Destroyer".:D A small ship like the Ebon Hawk could destroy the bridge, without being killed. The turbo-lasers are powerful but not fast enough for a ship like the Ebon Hawk. But if the TIE-Fighters come into the fight.............

Ultimate Vader 06-23-2009 12:26 PM

Then the Ebon Hawk will be destroyed.

Demongo 06-23-2009 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate Vader (Post 2639006)
Then the Ebon Hawk will be destroyed.

Most likely. But maybe................
------>TIE-Fighter:jumpfire:<---------Ebon Hawk
:D

Ultimate Vader 06-23-2009 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthDac (Post 2639008)
Most likely. But maybe................
------>TIE-Fighter:jumpfire:<---------Ebon Hawk
:D

It's a nest of TIE-Fighters that the Executor has.:migraine: Ebon Hawk vs a nest of tie-fighters = fail .Try again.:smoke2:

Insignia_Enithma 06-23-2009 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan7 (Post 2638988)
Given this was one of the top ship designs of the time, it is clear, given how dwarfed the Leviathan is by the Executor; I can't believe you a seriously questioning a Source on this however...



Compared with the Executor...



Indeed given that there is some 4,000 years of technological gain, I would doubt any KotOR era ship would beat an average Star Destroyer, let alone the Executor...

Links;

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imper...Star_Destroyer
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

You can check the sources if you really want, but it would seem to me a matter of logic that a 19 kilometre long ship would have a lot more guns than a 600 meter long one...

Ok, first, I know it has more guns. I was asking for a source on the up to 100 guns bit.

Sheesh.

jonathan7 06-23-2009 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insignia_Enithma (Post 2639034)
Ok, first, I know it has more guns. I was asking for a source on the up to 100 guns bit.

Sheesh.

Crossed wires, my apologies - just writing "Source ?" made it seem as an aggressive question ;)

Darth_Yuthura 06-23-2009 02:02 PM

Yeah, a Laviathan-class ship rams the Executer. Resulting in the Executer being destroyed.

That covers the question, which doesn't specify the ship must also survive.

Trench 06-23-2009 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2639061)
Yeah, a Laviathan-class ship rams the Executer. Resulting in the Executer being destroyed.

That covers the question, which doesn't specify the ship must also survive.

That's a... bold statement. I'm going to have to go with the Ebon Hawk. With Carth and Bastila at the controls, and Revan manning the turret, they could destroy the bridge, or wreak havoc from the inside.

R2-X2 06-23-2009 02:45 PM

The Executor has Deflector shields, which also work against ramming and projectiles.

Quote:

Source?
No direct source. Counting all points laser bolts were shot from at the destroying of Taris. Thats less than 100. 0_0

Insignia_Enithma 06-23-2009 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2-X2 (Post 2639080)
The Executor has Deflector shields, which also work against ramming and projectiles.

No direct source. Counting all points laser bolts were shot from at the destroying of Taris. Thats less than 100. 0_0

DId you really count all of the lazer bolts :raise:

Darth_Yuthura 06-23-2009 04:57 PM

How do you come to <100 when the ship didn't fire all its lasers during those scenes?

How can you be sure of Executer's compliment? Maybe the technical manuals were wrong. I certainly don't remember seeing a dozen laser points at any point on Executer in TESB or ROTJ. Maybe the lasers on Laviathan were ten times as powerful as those on Executer?

The point was that you can't really compare Executer to a 4000 year old ship of any kind.

Demongo 06-23-2009 04:58 PM

I'm not sure if the Leviathan has 100 guns:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/st...last-Taris.jpg
That's not too many.

mattig89ch 07-02-2009 10:58 AM

unless a ship managed to lower the executor's deflectors, then ram it, no i don't think any ship from the KOTOR era could take out the executor.

Fredi 07-02-2009 01:30 PM

Dude, there's no comparison, it's impossible.

Pikmin 07-03-2009 02:13 PM

Either the Leviathan or The Ravager.

Ping 07-04-2009 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2639127)
How do you come to <100 when the ship didn't fire all its lasers during those scenes?

How can you be sure of Executer's compliment? Maybe the technical manuals were wrong. I certainly don't remember seeing a dozen laser points at any point on Executer in TESB or ROTJ. Maybe the lasers on Laviathan were ten times as powerful as those on Executer?

The point was that you can't really compare Executer to a 4000 year old ship of any kind.

Seriously, just because you don't like the more modern SW capital ships doesn't mean they're worse than the old ones. And if the technical manuals you're referring to are official sources, no matter how much you don't like them, they're official, so you can't really say that they're wrong, as they are canon sources.

Executor would definitely pwn any KOTOR ship. No question about it. I mean, it makes the Leviathan look like a starfighter. I can't help but wonder what would happen if we paired up the Executor with the Lusankya. That would make some major destruction...

Darth Milenko 07-04-2009 06:23 PM

the Star Forge or the Ravager. the Ravager is a MAJOR maybe, but the Star Forge wouls be the closest to ever destroying it. the only reason i'm saying this is because it is said that Capital Ships could easily move between it's gaps. and it could create an infinite amout of droids and ships. therefore making it "the creator". "the creator" would be able to summon any ships it creates to destroy Vader's ship.

Ping 07-04-2009 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milenko (Post 2644862)
the Star Forge or the Ravager. the Ravager is a MAJOR maybe, but the Star Forge wouls be the closest to ever destroying it. the only reason i'm saying this is because it is said that Capital Ships could easily move between it's gaps. and it could create an infinite amout of droids and ships. therefore making it "the creator". "the creator" would be able to summon any ships it creates to destroy Vader's ship.

I kind of doubt the Ravager would stand up to the Executor. I mean, it's already damaged to start with it, so I'd put my money on the Executor. Also, the Star Forge is more of a superweapon than a capital ship, but if the Executor rammed the Star Forge, it might win.

Fredi 07-04-2009 08:56 PM

Yeah and the Star Forge is not a ship, it's a Space-based factory.

ForeverNight 07-05-2009 02:06 AM

Anything from the KotOR Era?

Not a chance.

Not only does the Executor have 4000 years worth of innovations to it, but the sheer size of the thing and the weapons batteries... Well, 5000 turbolasers is a lot of energy to direct onto a single target. Now, even assuming that only 20% of the shots hit -they're shooting like the Stormtroopers in the movies- that's 1000 bolts of energy, concentrated onto shields that are vastly outdated.

That's in a straight up 1 vs. 1 with both hypeing into the system at the same time.

However, if the Ebon Hawk or another like ship manages to get within the shields -much like in Solo Command when the pilot manages to get a TIE inside a SSD's shields and starts destroying it. Or if a pair of fighters manage to get in the superstructure of the Executor a la Wraith Squadron than the Executor is toast.

Likely? Less than a Snowball surviving in hell for a week. Possible? Yeah.

Now, let's even the odds, put in that fleet that was mentioned earlier.

Still, the Executor is going to win. Why? 4000 years of innovations and inventions and devices that were never even thought of in the KotOR era. So, asuming that they get the drop in on the Executor and pound it for a while, the Executor is going to win because it: A) Has 5000+ turbolasers to bear on anyship in the fleet. B) Huge TIE wing, including Bombers, Interceptor and Fighters. Even Defenders if you get lucky. And, C) It has powerful shields -unless the generator is destroyed and stray A-Wing hits the bridge... which, somehow, results in the ship's death... somehow. Never quite understood how.

Anyway, this question is like asking: "Can the Wright Flyer engage in Air to Air Combat with a F-22 Raptor and win?

Like hell it will. The F-22 will see it and destroy it before the Flyer even get's and idea where it is.

I imagine that much the same would occur when the Executor and a KotOR Era ship meet...

My 2 cents...

Demongo 07-05-2009 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milenko (Post 2644862)
the Star Forge or the Ravager

Ravager, would be destroyed in seconds. See ForeverNight's points.^^^^^^

Did you read the poll question carefully?

Do you think that a ship from the KotOR era could destroy the Executor?
The Star Forge is not a ship. But it could destroy the Executor:xp:

kingofsquid 07-19-2009 06:48 PM

1. The Ravager is held together by Nihilius. It cannot be destroyed until he is dead.
2. The Hawk could stand up to TIEs, even a fleet. It is invincible (at least when I am shooting) and could easily pull an A-Wing on te bridge.

purifier 07-31-2009 01:33 PM

Can't say for sure, might be an even match. Like to see it though just for s**ts and giggles.

ForeverNight 08-04-2009 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofsquid (Post 2652129)
1. The Ravager is held together by Nihilius. It cannot be destroyed until he is dead.
2. The Hawk could stand up to TIEs, even a fleet. It is invincible (at least when I am shooting) and could easily pull an A-Wing on te bridge.

Really?

You can shoot down 144 TIE's and 200 Misc. Combat support ships? Before they even get a shot or two in???

Impressive.

No. It's a physical impossibility for a ship such as the Ebon Hawk -which while it may have been very fast in the KotOR Era I imagine that 4000+ years of innovations have rendered it useless- to dodge all the energy and weaponry that the Executor and it's supporting ships will be throwing at it.

Purifier: See my points if you're not convinced that the Executor would win, other than that it would be neat to watch... in a vaguely horrified way....

Master Shake 08-04-2009 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverNight (Post 2659503)
Really?

You can shoot down 144 TIE's and 200 Misc. Combat support ships? Before they even get a shot or two in???

Impressive.

No. It's a physical impossibility for a ship such as the Ebon Hawk -which while it may have been very fast in the KotOR Era I imagine that 4000+ years of innovations have rendered it useless- to dodge all the energy and weaponry that the Executor and it's supporting ships will be throwing at it.

Purifier: See my points if you're not convinced that the Executor would win, other than that it would be neat to watch... in a vaguely horrified way....

This guy's got the right idea.

Kind of like seeing a pitbull take on a chihuahua.

TKA-001 08-08-2009 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2638894)
4000 years ago, they had technology that was essentially superior to that from 4000 years in the future.

Balderdash.
Quote:

They had personal stealth generators
And later eras didn't? Off the top of my head, I can recall that Imperial saboteurs (seen in Jedi Academy), the Imperial Remnant's Shadowtroopers (seen in Jedi Outcast), and the Empire's Blackhole stormtroopers (seen in The Force Unleashed X-Box 360/PS3 versions) all possess technology more or less equivalent to the capabilities of personal stealth technology seen in the KOTOR games.

Quote:

thermal detonators
You might not remember this, but Leia threatened Jabba the Hutt with a thermal detonator in Episode 6, and thermal detonators have appeared in dozens of sources set during the years before and during the reign of the Empire.

Quote:

disruptors
And later eras didn't? Disruptors were used by Sith officers during the New Sith Wars (source: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction), bounty hunters and other criminals regularly used disruptor rifles (sources: Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy), and disruptors were a standard infantry weapon used by Zann Consortium foot soldiers (source: Empire at War - Fources of Corruption).

Quote:

and touchscreens.
Off the top of my head I can recall pilot droids on the Invisible Hand using touchscreens on the bridge in Episode III. Besides, why does whether touchscreens are used make any difference?

Quote:

Some of these already existed in the original trilogy
...or all of them.

Quote:

but they still hadn't perfected cloaking devices for small ships
Darth Maul's personal ship had a functional cloaking device (reference: Episode I Visual Dictionary). The starship used by Darth Vader's apprentice did as well (reference: The Force Unleashed). Later, the Empire developed several projects based around cloaking devices, one of which successfully mass-produced cloak-capable TIE starfighters (reference: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire). The Empire also build two Executor-class Star Dreadnaughts with cloaking devices (references: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire, Rogue Squadron III - Rebel Strike). Even the Zann Consortium criminal empire was able to field starships with cloaking capabilities (source: Empire at War - Forces of Corruption). Cloaking devices have been specified as running on stygium crystals, which were evidently only found on the planet Aeten II. The planet's stores of these crystals were neigh-completely depleted by the time the Empire rose, so that explains the rarity of cloaking devices during that era.

Quote:

Yeah, a Laviathan-class ship rams the Executer. Resulting in the Executer being destroyed.
I hope that this is a jest of some kind. In case it isn't, though, bull****. During the Siege of Yavin after the first Death Star's destruction, three Imperial Star Destroyers made a hyperspace miscalculation that caused them to ram into the Executor at a faster-than-light speed. They exploded against the behemoth's shields and did no significant damage (source: Race for Survival).

Quote:

How can you be sure of Executer's compliment?
By looking at the most up to date canonical sources which details the vessel's stats.

Quote:

Maybe the technical manuals were wrong.
No, I'm pretty sure you just don't have any actual evidence to support your conclusion(s).

Quote:

I certainly don't remember seeing a dozen laser points at any point on Executer in TESB or ROTJ.
"We don't see thousands of guns on the Executor in the movies, so they can't exist." You know what that sounds like? That sounds like the minimalist Traviss fans who insist that because the movies don't show thousands of Star Destroyers or quintillions of Separatist battle droids or quadrillions of clone troopers, then they can't possibly exist, no matter how silly that would be.

Quote:

Maybe the lasers on Laviathan were ten times as powerful as those on Executer?
What reason do we have to believe or even consider this?

Quote:

The point was that you can't really compare Executer to a 4000 year old ship of any kind.
You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be.

For the sake of simplicity, we can surmise for the time being that firepower levels of Old Republic-era starships are more or less the same as that of later eras, because we have no particular reason to believe otherwise; The only significant difference between technology in the two eras is that as we go further forward in the timeline, starships and other vehicles become larger and more overall powerful in design. Once that is established, the only thing we need to look at is the armament of the two vessels. The Interdictor-class? Five medium turbolasers and six point-defense lasers (source: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide). The Executor-class? 4,000 turbolaser cannons, not counting other weapon emplacements (source:Starship Battles Preview 1 on Wizards.com).

The entire premise of this thread is ridiculous. It's no bloody contest. The Executor could ram the Leviathan (or, indeed, any vessel from the KOTOR era) and destroy it without even needing to fire a shot.

Quote:

So can you find any Cruiser/ Star Destroyer from the Kotor era that could destroy it?
No such vessels exist in the canon. Even the most powerful vessel known to be used by the Sith during and after the Jedi Civil War is dwarfed in size and firepower dozens of times over by the Empire's Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which is a dime a dozen as far as the Empire is concerned. This I learned with no more than five minutes of research on Wookieepedia. This isn't the sort of question where you need the consensus of an entire forum community to figure out the answer.

Revan 411 08-09-2009 03:26 AM

The Executor is a cool ship and all, but I prefer Darth Nihilus's ship more. It just feels more of a living creature instead of a ship. It has been in battle before, and instead of technology that's keeping the ship intact, its the force. And as Vader says:

''The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.''

However, what is curious is that if the Exile and the Mandalorions still planted those minds but never faced Nihlius, would the ship still be in operation? Because, I've read on this topic before and somebody said that Nihlius needs to be destroyed in order to blow up his ship.

Miltiades 08-09-2009 07:26 AM

Nope. The Executor is massive, and has a 4,000 years lead in technology to anything KotOR.

The Ravager's barely holding it together, and even if it was brand new, it couldn't hold up against the Executor. The Ravager itself isn't that dangerous, it's who's in there that is.

TKA-001 08-09-2009 07:48 AM

Quote:

And as Vader says:

''The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.''
Interesting that you mention that, when no EU source, canon or not, has ever shown the Force used to do anything more powerful than the destruction of all life on a planet. What Vader was saying was that Tarkin's overall philosophy for ruling the Empire through fear of force (see Tarkin Doctrine) was flawed, not that use of the Force is superior to technology in every instance.

Quote:

However, what is curious is that if the Exile and the Mandalorions still planted those minds but never faced Nihlius, would the ship still be in operation? Because, I've read on this topic before and somebody said that Nihlius needs to be destroyed in order to blow up his ship.
No, Nihilus would very much be dead and so would his ship if they just set the bombs off and left. If Nihilus can survive the explosions of his ship being ripped apart, than slashing at his face with a lightsaber isn't going to do any good. Nihilus' power is only keeping the ship structurally intact; He isn't feeding energy into the ship's shield generators, for instance. The reason the Exile and the gang went in to kill Nihilus personally was probably because she/he wanted to make sure that he wouldn't escape.


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