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-   -   Favorite lightsaber hilts and forms (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=199806)

Darth_Yuthura 08-11-2009 09:12 PM

Favorite lightsaber hilts and forms
 
Alright I'm sure everyone knows their favorite lightsaber and the character who holds it. I present a poll to see who likes what hilt or style greatest.

This will cover virtually every kind of hilt and the form that goes with it. I just want to see how many favor which hilts, or if it's the fighting style that goes with it. You can vote for more than one if you like more than a single version.

Te Je'karta Mand'alor 08-11-2009 09:16 PM

dookus-it's the best for handeling

Darth_Yuthura 08-11-2009 09:40 PM

Okay that poll took longer than I expected, and I didn't know the thread already opened.

I selected twin-single hilts because the lightsabers don't have any mass. You might as well just turn a shoto into a standard saber to balance it properly. One option that I would have added, but hasn't been used in SW was twin shotos because they are much like escrimas.

Single hilt-shien form is another I favor because it can take a traditional saber and really turn it into something different than Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. The single hilt is just boring, but Shien reminds me of a katana when held back-handed.

Tonfa-style was interesting, but I don't find them very flexible for anything other than twin-saber fighting. Also are difficult to work with.

Saberstaff: let's just say that they are MUCH less effective when you only have a short hilt to work with. If it was just a standard staff, then you'd have something deadly.

Gob 08-11-2009 10:24 PM

Classic single saber. Curved hilt was kind of cool, too.

I don't know why, but I hate dual sabers. It just seems so pointless in most cases.

Saberstaff is pretty cool, but it actually seems like it'd actually be less effective against a single opponent.

deathdisco 08-11-2009 10:46 PM

Are you asking from a real world perspective? Since I don't have a frame of reference on the matter I'll go with my fandom vote.
Single saber Form V Shien/Djem So.
Most of my favorite characters use it.

Shem 08-11-2009 11:17 PM

And what does this have to do with KOTOR?

Darth Avlectus 08-12-2009 02:18 AM

OTHER: Being a swordsman and meleeist IRL, I simply cannot relegate to just one variant. I'd dedicate to some. But one needs know his enemy's way of fighting if one is to successfully overcome that enemy.

I'd probably have a double bladed that could just as easily become twins like Kas'im the blademaster. (Read Darth Bane: Path of Destruction) As well as a regular single (if not a Dooku).

In reserve probably rely upon others in this order: A Dooku "hooked", A pair of ventress/Vosa "curved", a couple shotos, a light "Club" saber (really large one on an enemy in Jedi Knight), and then I'd have a few Tonfas, and a lightwhip. Not primarily, though.

Mostly I'd rely interchangably upon my Twin-to-double with regular single action for when I needed a balance of force powers, after all I need to know how my opposite fights. I can go from practicality, to all out deadly as I please--if I must.

Plus these allow innovation and variation with maximum defense and deadliness with affinity for the force. For the most part, though, I am a Guardian type. I'd learn all 7 saber forms and the 3 main saber variants. Force forms, I'd go with Channel and Affinity.

Also: the determination and intent of the weilder will also control how fast one learns and masters a form. "Doing it properly, learning a new form should be as though you had not learned it at all. There is no "special technique". Just how well you can apply what you have." --Darrel Max Craig Kendo/Kenjuitsu master.

"Execution of technique at its best is just simply an act and should be as though second nature if you have put the time in; like breathing should require little to no thought. The wielder should be as one with his own weapon. For every parry a riposte, and every riposte a parry; if we do this we shall not fail." Captain "Lysander Griffing" fencing master of SCA

BTW the "One normal; One Short" variant Kavar uses is based IRL on the Samurai variant with katanas that famous japanese swordsman Miyamoto Musashi invented. ;)

Darth_Yuthura 08-12-2009 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity (Post 2661821)
OTHER: Being a swordsman and meleeist IRL, I simply cannot relegate to just one variant.

"Execution of technique at its best is just simply an act and should be as though second nature if you have put the time in; like breathing should require little to no thought. The wielder should be as one with his own weapon. For every parry a riposte, and every riposte a parry; if we do this we shall not fail." Captain "Lysander Griffing" fencing master of SCA

You seemed to think this through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity (Post 2661821)
Mostly I'd rely interchangably upon my Twin-to-double with regular single action for when I needed a balance of force powers, after all I need to know how my opposite fights. I can go from practicality, to all out deadly as I please--if I must.

Plus these allow innovation and variation with maximum defense and deadliness with affinity for the force. For the most part, though, I am a Guardian type. I'd learn all 7 saber forms and the 3 main saber variants. Force forms, I'd go with Channel and Affinity.

That's one of the reasons that I selected double sabers instead of the single hilts; because they are much more versatile. In Jedi Academy, I have twin sabers, but often use only one for when I use Force attacks. When I used Force powers that augment my lightsaber fighting, I go all-out attack with both sabers.

Gurges-Ahter 08-12-2009 10:29 AM

I chose two hilts, mostly because that's what I always used in KotOR and TSL. I'd also carry Jedi NPC with me as much as possible, also with two hilts (or maybe a twin-bladed hilt in some cases) because there was just something cool about 6 blades igniting at once when a battle began.

I was tempted to choose single hilt, because I'm also a bit of a traditionalist, but in the context of KotOR I choose two hilts.

Darth_Yuthura 08-12-2009 11:42 AM

Well in the context of KOTOR, I tend to favor the saberstaff, especially after I get the Heart of the Guardian and Mantle of the Force. That allows for you to take advantage of one crystal for two blades.

In TSL, I favor two blades all around because you have upgrades in addition to more crystals which enhance your stats. More crystal options means greater attribute potential.

Either way, there were many more lightsaber options available than just the top three you get in KOTOR and Jedi Knight. Although many of these are just modified versions of the standard saber, I just find the traditional saber that Vader uses boring. One of my favorite shots with lightsabers is when Starkiller is about to confront his master with that Shien form grip against Vader igniting his saber as everyone else does.

I suppose that I make this poll not so much for KOTOR, but Star Wars in general. No saber fight was ever like Maul with his saberstaff because it was more elaborate and complex to fight with. No single-saber fights were ever done that well.

Gurges-Ahter 08-12-2009 01:12 PM

I think my answer stays the same when considering Star Wars in general instead of just KotOR - I still prefer two-hilts but I'm tempted to choose standard single-hilt (what you call boring). Keep in mind that there are many different styles within the single-hilt category, depending on the fighting-style preference of the jedi/sith.

Burnseyy 08-12-2009 01:26 PM

I chose twin hilts. Because although I like double bladed saber, the twin hilts just look altogether better and better to usem IMO.
:)

Darth_Yuthura 08-12-2009 01:29 PM

And the twin-hilt fighting style is essentially mastering the single-techniques and then going beyond that. True that you lose the ability to grasp one weapon with two hands, I find escrimas much more fascinating to watch a master use than a staff.

Although some could really do wonders with a katanna, it's the complexity of moves that you have to master for two-weapon fighting that I find most impressive. I didn't select the Tonfa-grip guard sabers because the loss in wrist flexibility doesn't quite compensate for the perpendicular grip you have.

A standard staff would be much more realistic than a saberstaff because you can't get the leverage that's supposed to come with a broader grip. Ray Parks had to modify his fighting style in order to work with the double-bladed lightsaber, but that style wasn't as effective as the one he would use with a standard staff.

Te Je'karta Mand'alor 08-12-2009 06:12 PM

a single curved saber makes for good wrist movement :thmbup1:

Darth Avlectus 08-12-2009 09:10 PM

^^^Although much better grip and many maneuvers are made easier, some are more difficult. Overall it lessens and conserves the energy and movement requirements in order to be effective and it changes the angle a bit. I could understand why you'd choose this.

It also works quite well in most forms, not just the contention form (from 2 makashi). In fact, "Bane of the sith"(Predating AOTC and dooku)--neither the novel nor comics, describes Darth Bane as using a "hooked" handle lightsaber. The novels do, too. However, every official picture I have seen shows him with a regular style hilt.:raise: Bane used multiple forms and styles.

My experience with sword hilts that have a curve are that upward movements with the back edge are made somewhat less effective--not that this is necessarily a huge problem most of the time, though.

For fencing, I have not noticed the downsides at all, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2661847)
You seemed to think this through.

It is what I was taught, *as* I was taught. :D

Quote:

That's one of the reasons that I selected double sabers instead of the single hilts; because they are much more versatile. In Jedi Academy, I have twin sabers, but often use only one for when I use Force attacks. When I used Force powers that augment my lightsaber fighting, I go all-out attack with both sabers.
Well, I like double bladed consisting of two sabers. The kotor double bladed or better known as Exar Kun original design is okay but inflexible. That's the problem with staff configuraitons is that they can be unwieldy. But it is solid and ferocity can make up for the higher difficulty in precision with this variant.

However I like the double that can become 2 single sabers for the very reason that it covers so much more. Having 2 variants in one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2661909)
One of my favorite shots with lightsabers is when Starkiller is about to confront his master with that Shien form grip against Vader igniting his saber as everyone else does.

If I am not mistaken there is an additional name to Shien for the grip he uses. I wish I could find it because people confuse this Shien with the older form 5 Shien which is quite the traditional way. If I am also not mistaken, starkiller also uses Ataru and Juyo--I don't think the KOTOR rules necessarily apply like they used to for all the forms w.r.t. weaknesses and strengths. Not anymore.

Quote:

I suppose that I make this poll not so much for KOTOR, but Star Wars in general. No saber fight was ever like Maul with his saberstaff because it was more elaborate and complex to fight with. No single-saber fights were ever done that well.
Ray park is also a wu-shu instructor and is very well versed in Kendo. Have some articles on him and how he got the part as darth maul, however what primarily got him the part was not only his vigilance with skills, but also his ability to become the part he played. "Like a hungry ferocous lion" as mr Park said in one interview.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnseyy (Post 2661938)
I chose twin hilts. Because although I like double bladed saber, the twin hilts just look altogether better and better to usem IMO.
:)

Why not have the double bladed made of two sabers that can detach and become two single blades? I went with that. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2661939)
And the twin-hilt fighting style is essentially mastering the single-techniques and then going beyond that.

Essentially, yes. Dual one-handed.

In some asian styles this might seem like a big deal b/c normally it is about wielding one blade with 2 hands, but european fencers, that's natural to start with. It depends, really. But to the point, yes, it's essentially what you said.

Then there is "bastard sword" which is considered hand-and-a-half sword which can use a one handed or a two handed style. Chinese Dao is also much similar to this in its own right as it has the same wield characteristics.

Quote:

True that you lose the ability to grasp one weapon with two hands, I find escrimas much more fascinating to watch a master use than a staff.
True. Consider that your maneuverability and agility is increased with one handed use. You might lose strength and certain grip and/or leverage, but it also forces the wielder to be smarter (more effective, deadlier) about their dueling technique.

Staffs use their simplicity as a strength. Leverage and impact increase as a double sided weapon as well as defense and fortitude.

In defense of the one weapon, two hands variant: your parrys, blocks, cuts and thrusts are more solid. If one could master one handed on both sides and 2 handed as well, you could very well use the two interchangably.

Quote:

Although some could really do wonders with a katanna, it's the complexity of moves that you have to master for two-weapon fighting that I find most impressive.
As I said earlier Miyamoto Mushashi founded a school of 2 sword fighting with the katana.

And to be honest, 2 single weapons are rather versatile because regardless of the culture of a style or form that uses it, the weapons have basically the same requirements and considerations for wielding.

Just think: you could incorporate: Kenjuitsu, fencing, other euro bladework, eskrima/arnis, chinese bladeworks (Gong Fu and Taiji Qian; better known in america as kung fu and tai chi) all in one and become unpredictable.

Quote:

A standard staff would be much more realistic than a saberstaff because you can't get the leverage that's supposed to come with a broader grip. Ray Parks had to modify his fighting style in order to work with the double-bladed lightsaber, but that style wasn't as effective as the one he would use with a standard staff.
On top of that the length of it was also a bit longer than he was tall. A staff should ideallly match your height. Could be shorter and it'd be easier, but you lose effective radius as well as impact. Lengthening it does the opposite but makes it harder to wield.

Darth_Yuthura 08-12-2009 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity (Post 2662075)
On top of that the length of it was also a bit longer than he was tall. A staff should ideallly match your height. Could be shorter and it'd be easier, but you lose effective radius as well as impact. Lengthening it does the opposite but makes it harder to wield.

I get your point. I have a staff that is WAY too broad for my height and I often find a staff half the length easier to maneuver. I can see that having a shorter hilt for a saberstaff would allow for faster swings, but you increase the risk of dicing yourself in the process. The benefit of having twice the slaughter per swing is offset by that opposite blade which you always have to be aware of.

I get what you're saying about having a multiple number of attack forms, but I just have issues with the lightsaber staff. I would say that the lightsaber pike makes much more sense because you have a much broader grip to work with. The loss of the opposite blade is more than compensated with the elongated cortosis-coated staff which acts just as a standard blunt weapon that won't cut through your flesh when you need extra leverage.

I know that this is really not associated with KOTOR at this point, but I just wonder what an expert would think.

R2-X2 08-13-2009 04:52 PM

I'd go for single bladed sabers (preferably longsabers) or Dooku's saber, and for the form, I like really fast and deadly fighting with one blade, so, Makashi (did I spell it right), also called form II.

RedHawke 08-14-2009 02:36 AM

Normal boring ol' single hilt for me... or perhaps Dooku's as it has some potential.

I am a menace to my allies if you gave me a Maul saber staff... and two weapon fighting (Florentine) well... the line from A Christmas Story comes to mind "you'll put your eye out!" well... someones if you let me fight like that! :p

Miltiades 08-14-2009 07:28 AM

Twin hilts for me. Mostly because it looks awesome, but also because because I can't decide on only one color, so with two lightsabers, I can pick two. :)

purifier 08-14-2009 01:09 PM

One single blade is all you need, along with a back-up on you, either for real life battles in our real world or whether it is (most likely) the same in the Star Wars Universe. (Lightsaber, vibrosword or vibroblade, etc.)

There are several technique's used for disarming someone with two blades and some of those technique's are quite unusual. The old saying that: " Two blades are better than one." doesn't compare to a highly skilled Blademaster with one blade in hand.



Oh...and BTW, you keep a second blade on you just in case you happen to get disarmed too. ;)
(A short blade would be ideal.)

Darth_Yuthura 08-14-2009 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purifier (Post 2662492)
The old saying that: " Two blades are better than one." doesn't compare to a highly skilled Blademaster with one blade in hand.

Actually it does. A skilled blademaster with two in hand.

That's really the trick; it's more difficult to fight with two blades, but one who has mastered fighting with two will be more effective than mastering the use of only one. I'd place my bets on a Master swordsman with a single blade beating a fair opponent wielding two. If it were one master against another, then the master fighting with two would have the edge. Only there are fewer with that level of experience because of the additional practice required.

purifier 08-14-2009 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura (Post 2662521)
Actually it does. A skilled blademaster with two in hand.

That's really the trick; it's more difficult to fight with two blades, but one who has mastered fighting with two will be more effective than mastering the use of only one. I'd place my bets on a Master swordsman with a single blade beating a fair opponent wielding two. If it were one master against another, then the master fighting with two would have the edge. Only there are fewer with that level of experience because of the additional practice required.



True! That can be a real possibility, but as you say there are very few with that level of experience; and it almost takes a lifetime to be able to master two blades with some level of precision.

But when that does happen and you do come up against someone who is a master of two blades, well that's another reason for having that back-up blade on you like I mentioned before. If he or she has not already cut you down, then you've got a chance when you whip out the other blade or lightsaber with your other hand. Then it becomes even steven, two blades ver. two blades, which can depend somewhat on your level of expertise of using those two blades as well.

But most of all, it can give you a fighting chance of possibly staying alive and maybe even defeating your opponent. (Well, maybe.) :D

Darth_Yuthura 08-15-2009 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purifier (Post 2662639)
If he or she has not already cut you down, then you've got a chance when you whip out the other blade or lightsaber with your other hand. Then it becomes even steven, two blades ver. two blades, which can depend somewhat on your level of expertise of using those two blades as well.

That's not exactly 'even steven' except in regards to equal weapons. In regards to SW, Count Dooku was considered a level 9 master swordsman; but he was noted to dislike using two sabers. This being so would mean that he likely wouldn't turn to a backup saber because he hadn't trained intensively on using it. He would have been much better just using one than adding another to the mix.

I'll admit that the curved hilt has an advantage when used with both hands that can't be done with duel sabers. The advantages of the curved hilt and tonfa grip are that they are not widely used, making them more difficult to counter. An opponent that knows how to fight with two sabers will be more likely to beat another opponent wielding two sabers than one holding a Dooku saber. That is not exactly due to the single being better, but because that particular user knows tricks that the other doesn't.

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 08-16-2009 01:16 AM

Kotor/TSL: i use Dual Sabers. mostly because of game mechanics. (more space for upgrades)

JA: I have gone through phases using each saber type and wondering how i could have ever gone without it. but after trying them all, in JA i am convinced that the Single Saber is the best. the fast style's lunge + the strong style's powerful attacks makes for very effective dueling. in JA currently, i feel i am playing the best ive ever played (my latest playthrough), and thats with strong. its very easy to destroy opponents with one well timed strong style downstroke, cutting them in half lengthwise. (according to the Wookiepedia article, this is called a Sai Tok.) another effective use of strong is to 'recycle' wide horizontal strikes by performing a 360 degree spin, bringing the saber back onto the opponent while still in the same attack. (Shun/ Jung Ma.)

SW: I would choose a Single Saber with Soresu and non-backhand Shien/Djem So because their tenets appeal to me. Shien was my primary stlye in TSL, iirc. in JA, my favorite way of taking down a whole battalion of stormtroopers is to switch to fast style and deflect their bolts right back at them.
in regard to Shien, i believe my current style of combat in JA is Djem So. (repeatedly hammering opponents' defense with hard smashes with my saber. this is extremely effective against very tough opponents like rebornmasters. and recently, i was able to defeat kyle_boss in what seemed like under 2 minutes [perhaps less] by using this technique)

[edit]^ did it again in under 30 seconds. djem so ftw! [/edit]

Trench 08-17-2009 07:17 PM

Single saber (green) and switch between aggressive forms and the backhanded Shien.

R2-X2 08-18-2009 03:56 PM

Did you ever try to fight with a sword/anything like that backhanded in your real life? It's so pretty damn hard, I'd never go for that. You have no strength, no precision, and make only too slow attacks. Forget about it!

Trench 08-18-2009 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2-X2 (Post 2663725)
Did you ever try to fight with a sword/anything like that backhanded in your real life? It's so pretty d*mn hard, I'd never go for that. You have no strength, no precision, and make only too slow attacks. Forget about it!

If your enemy is defenseless and you want to take them out quickly and effectively then a backhanded sweep is the way to go. I never said I would use it exclusively, just when it applies to the situation. It works for blaster bolt deflection as well.

Demongo 08-22-2009 08:07 PM

Twin Hilts or Lightsaber Pikes. I would use both of them(TSL style:D).

Fredi 08-22-2009 09:59 PM

Standard single blade lightsaber, nothing fancy. :p

Darth Avlectus 08-23-2009 03:40 AM

Well, to let my fellow LF members know: Lightsaber Props. IRL. Stuff that is fun to have as well as to showcase. Behold...

There are custom lightsabers built out there and some of them are actually made after the ones in the KOTOR games. Available for you to buy. ~$100 give or take. Maybe not all the bells and whistles like clash and sound, but it is enough to make you stand out.
http://doclocustomsabers.com/
Kotor styled, Sith Ravager (short), Malak, Nihilus. And some from the prequel era...and others, still.

They only get more expensive:

http://www.advanced-light.com/

Very well balanced and crafted for dueling or display. Prepare to spend a pretty penny. They specialize in making ventress or dooku styled hilts. Taken from originally defunct or dead MRFX, or other brand lightsaber parts.

OR more broken down into components:

www.thecustomsabershop.com

Make your own hilts, buy parts and components. (I'm plenty satisfied with the business I've done with them!!!) Very informative. Very helpful. You learn so much about the various types of lightsaber props to play with.

The definite choice of the DIY enthusiast. Especially if you like to improvise from parts lying around. Not unlike sith or jedi who make their own.

Perhaps you just want a modded MRFX? Check it:

www.ultrasabers.com
Whom I believe to be the first in this duelable high quality saber business. They pioneered this and innovated in this industry. Have made improved soundboards w/ additional effects for the light.

Alex Buckner, if you're reading this--I'm sorry about my doubts early on which lead to some...rather rude comments (disbelief) when you were starting on ebay...it just seemed *too good to be true*. Another ebay scammer. :swear:...or so I thought. :rolleyes:

...Well, I'm glad to be proven wrong here. Your dueling blades are well worth it. :D You even give DIY people great DVD instrucitons w/ a kit for turning their old worn out MRFX into an "ultraFX".

Agincourt 08-26-2009 08:36 AM

Single hilt with any kind of grip. One blade usually is enough for everything you need except maybe for fighting another Jedi.

Querida 10-08-2011 11:58 PM

I like the double blade.


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