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-   -   Revan vs. Anikan if he didn't have to be in that Darth Vader costume (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=199980)

Darth Scorcher 08-21-2009 05:21 PM

Revan vs. Anakin if he didn't have to be in that Darth Vader costume
 
I've seen a lot of Revan vs. person threads, but I was wondering what if Anakin didn't have to be in the Darth Vader costume, if he wasn't burned up on Mustafar, George Lucas did say he would've become the greatest force user ever if it weren't for that suit, but still, Revan has more experience, but what do guys you think?

Godric Volturi 08-21-2009 05:33 PM

I think that Revan vs. Anakin would have been epic fail, considering they are from different time periods. >.> But other than that... :P

Revan is a master stratigest, able to see a weakness in his opponent and also he is battle hardened and able to sacrifice others for a more 'noble' cause. Plus, he was one of the more ancient of Jedi and as Kreia says, (paraphrased, so I'm not putting it in quotes) the Jedi and Sith of even their time were but children playing with toys... 2,000 years later, lightsaber combat would have dimmed much more. So if Revan was but a child playing with a toy, Anakin would have been a fetus playing with his thumb. Therefor, in lightsaber combat, the superior would obviously be Revan.

As for force powers, I believe that Anakin would have been slightly stronger. His lightning would have been double the strength of the Emperor's, I don't doubt. Basically, what I believe is that Revan and Anakin are one in the same... both were Jedi... then fallen... but perhaps Revan could have been the chosen one for the trying time in his time, trying to create the stability the Republic needed, because if you will notice, there is more instability when the Republic is under the leadership of the Jedi/Senate than is the Sith Empire (wether it's an empire in the outer rim or it's Palpatine's empire) and had the people not rebelled against Lord Revan or Lord Sidious, then the galaxy would be more stable... (but that's a completely different topic) but what I was trying to say is that both were on the same magnitude in my opinion... as I believe that with the aide of the Force, perhaps Revan was enabled to be reborn in a new body, without his previous memories. I mean, Sidious did manipulate the Force and cause Anakin to be created in his mother's womb, so perhaps he used Darth Revan's midichlorians.

Well anyway, that's my take on the subject. :) By the way, welcome to the Forums. :D

Te Je'karta Mand'alor 08-21-2009 06:37 PM

anakin'd be dead before he hit the ground

Trench 08-21-2009 08:10 PM

He'd be dead before he got near Revan. Revan would probably drain the life from him or fry him with lightning.

Darth Scorcher 08-21-2009 08:14 PM

are you sure you guys aren't speaking from a fan perspective, or a canon perspective?

Trench 08-21-2009 08:19 PM

Canonically, since Revan lived closer to the prime age of the Jedi, he would have been more skilled in the use of the Force. Forget what Lucas says [EDIT]about Anakin being the chosen one[/EDIT], Revan could beat Skywalker.

Lord of Hunger 08-21-2009 08:19 PM

Canon. Anakin is a whinny brat who relies on a sheer brute power and that repetitious Djem So/Shien form that is easy enough to counter with Juyo, a technique that Revan uses. Oh, and the fact that Revan has studied under Kreia and has learned from both the Korriban Valley of the Dark Lords and the Malachor Trayus Academy?

Sorry, [HYPERBOLE]Anakin would be dead before he was ever conceived in his mom's womb if there was even the possibility the two would meet.[/HYBERBOLE]

Darth Scorcher 08-21-2009 08:24 PM

..forget what Lucas says....yeah, no...Lucas created Star Wars, whatever he says is canon, is canon, and if you forget what Lucas says is like saying your forgetting Star Wars altogethor, ah forget it then, apparently Revan has to be the Chuck Norris of Star Wars

Godric Volturi 08-21-2009 08:32 PM

>.> Which aggrivates the hell out of me, considering. :P

*points to my previous post* I gave details... >.> you guys are just posting one sentance lines. So I think that if you are going to post, post something thoughtful about the topic... okay, so you guys think Revan PWNS all... WHY is that then?

Mono_Giganto 08-21-2009 09:12 PM

I think a more interesting question might be who could better take the defeat like a man.

Shem 08-21-2009 10:45 PM

I'm sorry, but I can't take this poll seriously since Anakin is spelled wrong. :xp:

Darth Scorcher 08-21-2009 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shem (Post 2665004)
I'm sorry, but I can't take this poll seriously since Anakin is spelled wrong. :xp:

err....sorry?

Gob 08-21-2009 11:28 PM

Lucas said Anakin would be twice as strong as Sidious had he not been crippled. Revan is an unknown, and therefore, his power can't be accurately gauged. Also, Anakin never attained his potential, so that's null as well. Saying Revan would win is fanboyism, and saying Anakin would win is basically a void statement. Therefore, this fight doesn't work.

Come to think of it, any versus thread involving KotOR characters will be inconclusive. Virtually every KotOR character is relatively unknown. Especially Revan and the Exile. They're the best of their era... which means nothing, since they haven't actually done anything. Until we get an accurate representation of their power, making any real conclusions that aren't obvious doesn't make any sense.

Lord of Hunger 08-22-2009 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebadddude
..forget what Lucas says....yeah, no...Lucas created Star Wars, whatever he says is canon, is canon, and if you forget what Lucas says is like saying your forgetting Star Wars altogethor,

Sorry, but if there is to be actual content discussion then you have to analyze the content itself rather than the author saying, "X is Y, THE END!". Just because Lucas says for example that Sidious is the UBER SITH LORD OF DOOM!!! doesn't make it true if there isn't proof within the content to back it up.
Quote:

ah forget it then, apparently Revan has to be the Chuck Norris of Star Wars
Actually I am among the few "Revan fanboys" who believe that Revan is actually not invincible and that there are a variety of individuals who may have been able to defeat him. Kreia, for example, possess a lesser version of Nihilus' vampiricy and has all the teachings of Malachor behind her. Nihilus could easily feast on Revan. The Exile could potentially defeat Revan depending on what sort of battle it is. And Luke is about on Revan's level as well.

However, there are plenty of people who could kick that sorry-excuse of a Chosen One's ass. Bastila for example. Hell, I bet Mission could do it. In the case of Revan defeating Anakin, I am not comparing a God to a man, but a man to a fly without wings that is already dying.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gob
Lucas said Anakin would be twice as strong as Sidious had he not been crippled.

Power=/=Lots of unfocused strength.
Quote:

Revan is an unknown, and therefore, his power can't be accurately gauged.
Dear God, WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON? There have been hundreds of testaments to Revan's power. It wasn't as much raw strength as Anakin, sure, but it was quite a lot and very well focused, enhanced by a mixture of the numerous Sith techniques learned on Korriban and Malachor, Kreia's Jedi and Echani teachings, and just as many years of experience in war as little Annie.
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They're the best of their era... which means nothing, since they haven't actually done anything.
Again, what planet do you live on? Do I have to make a massive list of both of their accomplishments? Has Anakin killed individuals empowered by the Star Forge or Malachor? Has Anakin slain thousands of Dark Jedi, Sith Assassins, Sith Acolytes, and Sith Troopers? Has Anakin killed Yusanis or Mandalore the Ultimate? Does Anakin speak thousands of languages? Has Anakin arrayed a variety of extremely talented individuals as companions? Has Anakin killed a Force Zombie and the Galaxy's most powerful Force Vampire? Can Anakin hold his breath almost indefinitely or see alignments or wield any elite Force powers?
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Until we get an accurate representation of their power, making any real conclusions that aren't obvious doesn't make any sense.
I will correct this now.
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Until Anakin Skywalker is in anyway significant other than becoming Darth Vader and killing the Emperor via surprise attack, trying to compare him to far superior individuals doesn't make any sense.

aar'ika41 08-22-2009 09:18 AM

they'd have a good fight. but Anakin would be creamed

Q 08-22-2009 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gob (Post 2665025)
Lucas said Anakin would be twice as strong as Sidious had he not been crippled.

It wouldn't have made any difference. If we are to believe what happened in the PT, Anakin would have been far too stupid to know or to learn what to do with all of that power. :p

Giant Graffiti 08-22-2009 09:44 AM

Revan would just use cheat codes to max out all his powers, therefore he would win.

Darth Scorcher 08-22-2009 10:01 AM

I'm gonna see if I can try a comparison of these force users power, Nihilus=ultimate power apparently, Exile=much less powerful than Nihilus, Kreia=very powerful, Sion=Immortal, Anakin=Chosen One, Revan=Equal level to Anakin. Yeah, I believe Revan and Anakin are equal powered, at least Anakin will be equal powered given time but given Revan's experience and focus vs. Anakin's raw power and hatred, I say Revan wins, and I wasn't saying Revan would lose, just giving arguments on how he could lose.... And how could MISSION BEAT ANAKIN?!?!? seriously, did your intelligence fall down the drain when you typed that sentence?

Gob 08-22-2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665104)
Power=/=Lots of unfocused strength.

lol wut? If he hadn't been mutilated, that strength would have been focused.

Quote:

Dear God, WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON? There have been hundreds of testaments to Revan's power. It wasn't as much raw strength as Anakin, sure, but it was quite a lot and very well focused, enhanced by a mixture of the numerous Sith techniques learned on Korriban and Malachor, Kreia's Jedi and Echani teachings, and just as many years of experience in war as little Annie.
What has he done? Saying that he's "really super duper strong" means nothing. What were those Sith techniques of his? Obviously, he must have known a thing or two, but what? There's the thought bomb, but that's hardly a combat move. He's never done anything.

Quote:

Again, what planet do you live on? Do I have to make a massive list of both of their accomplishments?
Please, do. Make a list of things he's done to give evidence of exactly how strong he is. He killed Mandalore. Impressive, but how strong was Mandalore? He fought his way through the Star Forge with his friends. Impressive, but how strong are the enemies he fought? I'm not saying he's not in one of the highest tiers. We can safely assume that he is. But how strong is he, exactly?

Quote:

Has Anakin killed individuals empowered by the Star Forge or Malachor? Has Anakin slain thousands of Dark Jedi, Sith Assassins, Sith Acolytes, and Sith Troopers? Has Anakin killed Yusanis or Mandalore the Ultimate? Does Anakin speak thousands of languages? Has Anakin arrayed a variety of extremely talented individuals as companions? Has Anakin killed a Force Zombie and the Galaxy's most powerful Force Vampire? Can Anakin hold his breath almost indefinitely or see alignments or wield any elite Force powers?
You're right. Anakin's limited knowledge of languages is his bane.

You're just using plain feat wars. I could say that RotS Anakin was the Chosen One, and could therefore beat Revan. But we don't know that for sure, because everything that Revan has done only gives a vague estimate of his power. I'm not saying that RotS Anakin could beat Revan, or vice versa. Revan is an unknown. The feats of strength that you provided mean nothing, because they're purely subjective.

Quote:

Until Anakin Skywalker is in anyway significant other than becoming Darth Vader and killing the Emperor via surprise attack, trying to compare him to far superior individuals doesn't make any sense.
That statement is completely untrue and/or irrelevant. But I don't know what you're trying to imply, so I can't say for sure. Are you saying that Anakin is an unnecessary character to Star Wars? Or that he's shown no demonstration of his strength? Pick your poison.

cire992 08-22-2009 01:06 PM

Go with your gut Gob, yer brain's workin' too hard.

Anakin's a chump, Revan wears body armor and has two sabers and a posse. End of story.

RedHawke 08-22-2009 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665104)
Sorry, but if there is to be actual content discussion then you have to analyze the content itself rather than the author saying, "X is Y, THE END!". Just because Lucas says for example that Sidious is the UBER SITH LORD OF DOOM!!! doesn't make it true if there isn't proof within the content to back it up.

Sorry LoH, unfortunately for those who think as you do on this matter, Lucas has stated things that you personally don't agree with and these things are indeed canon. Feel free to argue it all you like but in the end you still lose because the "Great Maker" of the universe does indeed have final say over it. If Lucas says that "Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord ever!", that becomes canon and thusly a fact in the Star Wars universe. Even with no "proof" as you call it, see Lucas is the creator of the universe he doesn't need "proof" to make something so.

George Lucas > EU in all things Star Wars canon.

That's like trying to argue Jack Ryan's capabilities with Tom Clancy, it is a foolish thing to attempt because only Tom knows what Jack is fully capable of as it is his character, and his novels/universe. Same could be said of arguing Babylon 5 with Joe Straczynski, or Star Trek with Gene Roddenberry.

Gob 08-22-2009 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire992 (Post 2665261)
Go with your gut Gob, yer brain's workin' too hard.

Anakin's a chump, Revan wears body armor and has two sabers and a posse. End of story.

Haha, but of course. Plus his saber is purple, so that gives him Mace Windu's Pulp Fiction powers. I take my statement back... Revan lays a mushroom cloud on anyone except Mace.

Lord of Hunger 08-22-2009 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebaddude (Post 2665211)
I'm gonna see if I can try a comparison of these force users power, Nihilus=ultimate power apparently,

Yeah, essentially Nihilus does have a power that is maximized to the point of being the God-Power of Force abilities. However, it doesn't make him invincible and his ability destined him to die anyway.
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Exile=much less powerful than Nihilus,
Yes and no. It's a much more sustainable and does not leave to self-demise.
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Kreia=very powerful,
Unfortunately this is a simplification. You know that scene in Empire Strikes Back where Yoda levitates the X-Wing? There it was all about the stronger mind. Kreia probably has about average Force potential but has thousands of elite techniques and unparalleled will power. Her primary ability (controlling perception completely and utterly) is also very scary.
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Sion=Immortal,
Closest thing at least.
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Anakin=Chosen One,
Big deal.
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Revan=Equal level to Anakin. Yeah, I believe Revan and Anakin are equal powered, at least Anakin will be equal powered given time but given Revan's experience and focus vs. Anakin's raw power and hatred, I say Revan wins, and I wasn't saying Revan would lose, just giving arguments on how he could lose....
There's a definite limit to how far Anakin could develop his abilities given the resources available if he beat Kenobi on Mustafar. Palpatine never wanted an apprentice who would exceed him, so there is very little chance he would share any elite techniques.
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And how could MISSION BEAT ANAKIN?!?!? seriously, did your intelligence fall down the drain when you typed that sentence?
Revan trained an academy of Jedi hunters, consisting of non-Force sensitives good at using their emotions and unconventional methods for killing Jedi. While Mission never trained for this under Revan, she already has plenty of street smarts and the emotions of a normal person. The perfect candidate.

Okay, I admit that Mission defeating Anakin is a stretch, I was kinda joking there.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gob (Post 2665234)
lol wut? If he hadn't been mutilated, that strength would have been focused.

How? Is Sidious going to make Anakin into a Dark Lord that would have surpassed him? We know Sidious planned to never do that.
Quote:

What has he done? Saying that he's "really super duper strong" means nothing. What were those Sith techniques of his? Obviously, he must have known a thing or two, but what? There's the thought bomb, but that's hardly a combat move. He's never done anything.

Please, do. Make a list of things he's done to give evidence of exactly how strong he is. He killed Mandalore. Impressive, but how strong was Mandalore? He fought his way through the Star Forge with his friends. Impressive, but how strong are the enemies he fought? I'm not saying he's not in one of the highest tiers. We can safely assume that he is. But how strong is he, exactly?
Mandalore the Ultimate - Greatest of the Mandalorians at the time, both in strategic mentality and combat prowess. You don't become Mandalore if you aren't either.

Yusanis - Elite among the Echani.

Darth Malak - Not very bright, but his strength and determination where both on a very high level, and when he had the power of the Star Forge flowing through him it made him probably twice as powerful, along with the ability to regenerate about ten times had Revan not freed the half-dead Jedi.

Uthar Wynn and Yuthura Ban - Not in the least bit push overs. We're talking a very intelligent Sith Lord and an extremely skilled Dark Jedi Sentinel, with Revan's amnesia still around.
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You're right. Anakin's limited knowledge of languages is his bane.
Please...sarcasm is MY fuerte. ;)
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You're just using plain feat wars. I could say that RotS Anakin was the Chosen One, and could therefore beat Revan. But we don't know that for sure, because everything that Revan has done only gives a vague estimate of his power. I'm not saying that RotS Anakin could beat Revan, or vice versa. Revan is an unknown. The feats of strength that you provided mean nothing, because they're purely subjective.
Mockery: Oh Master, please list a specific list of accomplishments and indications of Revan's power. Not that you will care of course since right afterwards you'll say they are vague, subjective, and somehow invalid because your all-important movie era superceeds everything else without question because YOU say so without providing any indication of the Skywalker meatbag's accomplishments or indications of potential.
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That statement is completely untrue and/or irrelevant. But I don't know what you're trying to imply, so I can't say for sure. Are you saying that Anakin is an unnecessary character to Star Wars? Or that he's shown no demonstration of his strength? Pick your poison.
It is perfectly relevant. The only significance to the plot of the prequel trilogy is that he became Darth Vader, and when he defeated the Emperor, all he did was surprise attack him by picking him up and throwing him down a reactor core. Is that power? According to the Sith Code, a Sith has to actually demonstrate his/her power is superior to claim victory. Since Vader is a Sith, we should probably judge him on this standard, and we soon find he has come up very very very short.
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawke (Post 2665264)
Sorry LoH, unfortunately for those who think as you do on this matter, Lucas has stated things that you personally don't agree with and these things are indeed canon. Feel free to argue it all you like but in the end you still lose because the "Great Maker" of the universe does indeed have final say over it. If Lucas says that "Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord ever!", that becomes canon and thusly a fact in the Star Wars universe. Even with no "proof" as you call it, see Lucas is the creator of the universe he doesn't need "proof" to make something so.

George Lucas > EU in all things Star Wars canon.

That's like trying to argue Jack Ryan's capabilities with Tom Clancy, it is a foolish thing to attempt because only Tom knows what Jack is fully capable of as it is his character, and his novels/universe. Same could be said of arguing Babylon 5 with Joe Straczynski, or Star Trek with Gene Roddenberry.

With all respect and whatnot, Redhawke...I find this somewhat poor reasoning. For one thing, the Star Wars Universe has had many different writers contributing to it. They come to Lucas of course out of respect for him as the original author, but when they create something in the canon it is canon until a retcon appears out of nowhere. Chris Avellone and whoever have just as much say in this as Lucas does. And what happens when Lucas someday dies of old age? Not that I'm hoping that's going to happen in case anyone was thinking that...:raise:

And I find people just citing author statements as the end all argument so that they are always right no matter what rather pitiful. Yes, I cited Lucas' statement on the nature of the Dark Side as part of my proof for my True Sith as Force Vampires theory, but I did that along side other pieces of information from within the canon, as well as statements from the characters that are very similar to what Lucas was saying. So far, no one has actually given me any examples of Anakin's power at all. Yes, he's beaten some Dark Jedi and a Sith Lord, only after being defeated by each one at least once. Revan killed hundreds of Dark Jedi and Sith Acolytes, several Sith Masters and Lords, and two Dark Lords of the Sith (Bandon and Malak).

Mandalore The Shadow 08-22-2009 04:17 PM

Revan. Anakin has no chance and besides Revan has a Mandalorian mask. And someone tell me how it could possibly end in a draw?

Godric Volturi 08-22-2009 04:19 PM

^ *points to the above post* OMG! Revan has an uber mask because it's Mandalorian! >.> Why is it so awsome just because it's Mandalorian... what does that have to do with him beating Anakin?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665304)
With all respect and whatnot, Redhawke...I find this somewhat poor reasoning. For one thing, the Star Wars Universe has had many different writers contributing to it. They come to Lucas of course out of respect for him as the original author, but when they create something in the canon it is canon until a retcon appears out of nowhere. Chris Avellone and whoever have just as much say in this as Lucas does. And what happens when Lucas someday dies of old age? Not that I'm hoping that's going to happen in case anyone was thinking that...:raise:

And I find people just citing author statements as the end all argument so that they are always right no matter what rather pitiful. Yes, I cited Lucas' statement on the nature of the Dark Side as part of my proof for my True Sith as Force Vampires theory, but I did that along side other pieces of information from within the canon, as well as statements from the characters that are very similar to what Lucas was saying. So far, no one has actually given me any examples of Anakin's power at all. Yes, he's beaten some Dark Jedi and a Sith Lord, only after being defeated by each one at least once. Revan killed hundreds of Dark Jedi and Sith Acolytes, several Sith Masters and Lords, and two Dark Lords of the Sith (Bandon and Malak).

If I recall correctly, Revan also defeated Bastila twice and she was a Dark Lady of the Sith after Malak captured her. >.> But that's besides the point. Revan beat Malak, after Malak beat him, so would that not be the same principle as it is against Anakin? :P Sure, Malak did it the cowardly way, but he still beat Revan. But also when Revan was able to, did he not turn the defeated Sith to the Lightside? Did he not change Ajunta Pall to the Lightside? So he may have beaten them, but he did not kill them, if it was avoidable.

Gob 08-22-2009 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665304)
How? Is Sidious going to make Anakin into a Dark Lord that would have surpassed him? We know Sidious planned to never do that.

He knew that Anakin would become the most powerful Force user of all time. He wanted Anakin to succeed him. He only started using Vader as a tool after Mustafar, at which point he lost more than half of his potential.

Quote:

Mandalore the Ultimate - Greatest of the Mandalorians at the time, both in strategic mentality and combat prowess. You don't become Mandalore if you aren't either.

Yusanis - Elite among the Echani.

Darth Malak - Not very bright, but his strength and determination where both on a very high level, and when he had the power of the Star Forge flowing through him it made him probably twice as powerful, along with the ability to regenerate about ten times had Revan not freed the half-dead Jedi.

Uthar Wynn and Yuthura Ban - Not in the least bit push overs. We're talking a very intelligent Sith Lord and an extremely skilled Dark Jedi Sentinel, with Revan's amnesia still around.
Anakin beat Durge, a nigh invincible bounty hunter. He beat Count Dooku, who is in the highest tier of duelists, and on Mace Windu's level. He also beat Asajj Ventress, who tooled several Jedi herself.

Again, saying that someone is "extremely skilled" means nothing in a fight if they don't have any feats to back it up, unless it's specific, like "Phil was the most skilled duelist in the Order." None of the people you mentioned have a statement like that, or any feats to show their strength.

Quote:

Mockery: Oh Master, please list a specific list of accomplishments and indications of Revan's power. Not that you will care of course since right afterwards you'll say they are vague, subjective, and somehow invalid because your all-important movie era superceeds everything else without question because YOU say so without providing any indication of the Skywalker meatbag's accomplishments or indications of potential.
See above.

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It is perfectly relevant. The only significance to the plot of the prequel trilogy is that he became Darth Vader, and when he defeated the Emperor, all he did was surprise attack him by picking him up and throwing him down a reactor core. Is that power? According to the Sith Code, a Sith has to actually demonstrate his/her power is superior to claim victory. Since Vader is a Sith, we should probably judge him on this standard, and we soon find he has come up very very very short.
Again, what are you saying? Anakin's the central character in Star Wars, so he's not unimportant to the plot, if that's what you mean. And we're not talking about Vader. We're talking about Anakin. Vader's not as powerful as Anakin, except maybe in Force mastery.

And Vader renounced the dark side when he turned on Sidious. Malak took out Revan without showing his strength. I don't see you talking about that.

Quote:

With all respect and whatnot, Redhawke...I find this somewhat poor reasoning. For one thing, the Star Wars Universe has had many different writers contributing to it. They come to Lucas of course out of respect for him as the original author, but when they create something in the canon it is canon until a retcon appears out of nowhere. Chris Avellone and whoever have just as much say in this as Lucas does. And what happens when Lucas someday dies of old age? Not that I'm hoping that's going to happen in case anyone was thinking that...:raise:
G-canon > All. That's an established rule in SW debate.

Astor 08-22-2009 05:43 PM

Draw, if only because the premise is ridiculous.

Lord of Hunger 08-22-2009 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gob
G-canon > All. That's an established rule in SW debate.

I find it interesting that I go and have debates with people and then you show up, say G-CANON IZ UBER 1337 AND PWNS KOTOR N00BS, thus killing any possibility of me having a discussion with anyone. I am getting really sick of it, especially since you use it as a get-out-of-jail free card or something to hide behind when it is obvious that you cannot provide decent evidence to assert your claims.

Darth Scorcher 08-22-2009 06:03 PM

I never said that kotor doesn't exist, just it means that whatever G-canon says is true, but we can still have a discussion, I still think Revan would win, just not as easily as pushing Anakin down a cliff. I just get tired of everyone saying Revan is Uber-ultimate or whatever without bothering to tell us why they think that, oh wait, I know, because he's the [sarcasm]ultimate person in the universe[/sarcasm]

Lord of Hunger 08-22-2009 06:29 PM

I wasn't referring to you onebaddude, I was referring to Gob. And I agree that Revan is not the uber-ultimate guy, it's just obvious that he is easily superior to Anakin the Whinny Self-Centered Brat.

Giant Graffiti 08-22-2009 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665358)
I find it interesting that I go and have debates with people and then you show up, say G-CANON IZ UBER 1337 AND PWNS KOTOR N00BS, thus killing any possibility of me having a discussion with anyone.

But, it's correct. If George Lucas says that Motti's full name is Conan Antonio Motti, then it is.

Demongo 08-22-2009 08:04 PM

Well................I think Revan gets my vote but don't ask why:p

RedHawke 08-24-2009 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665304)
With all respect and whatnot, Redhawke...I find this somewhat poor reasoning.

Sorry mate, but your statements are one of someone who wants to discount GL own statements to support your own views... And that actually is somewhat insulting the creator of the very thing you are supposedly a "fan" of, IMHO.

Gob stated the truth, it is as undeniable as you can get...

Quote:

G-canon > All. That's an established rule in SW debate.
That's final in Star Wars... to attempt to argue otherwise is folly. (Clarification: Folly in any attempt to argue canon with Lucas.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665358)
I find it interesting that I go and have debates with people and then you show up, say G-CANON IZ UBER 1337 AND PWNS KOTOR N00BS, thus killing any possibility of me having a discussion with anyone. I am getting really sick of it, especially since you use it as a get-out-of-jail free card or something to hide behind when it is obvious that you cannot provide decent evidence to assert your claims.

This is something you on the "other side of the fence" have to come to accept, that canon will intrude in these discussions, it always will.

If you truly want to discount any canon at all, then my PnP character RedHawke could wipe the floor with all of them, Jedi and Sith combined... from any era, all together... but you see I have been on your side of that very fence before and the little thing called "Canon" gets in the way of that and I'm ok with that... she is my 'Mary Sue' anyway so I am biased, like you appear to be on the ancient Sith and their capabilities.

It doesn't mean you can't have a debate, you just need to state that you are disregarding certain things beforehand, this thread didn't, and even if it did those who stick to canon do have their own merits in any discussion.

adamqd 08-24-2009 05:14 AM

The way I see it is , Anakin, as depicted in the films, show's little of this Power. The way Revan was written and the feats he performed, C-canon storyline or none far exceeds that of the Chosen one...

The problem we face is that, George Lucas, created a licensing department to organize and create a massive immersive Expanded universe, and signed his surname to it all, deeming it official merchandise and Canon (Albeit a lower form, but canon none the less)
He doesn't follow these stories, and of course doesn't check sources or essential guides before adding to canon. The maker giveth, the maker taketh away.

But I do agree that if your just gonna say "Well George said that Anakin is the uber, so your ghey opinion moot!" why are you even in a an "Infinites" type, discussion, it is not based in fact, it is just fan musings.

For the record the Canon/EU debate is going wild atm, with the resent Karen travis uproar, and people are calling for a more developed canon definition to be made by Lucasfilm.

IMO G-canon rules, but it isn't always good, and it often convolutes its own continuity.

OT: Haven't we had this thread before? lol

cire992 08-24-2009 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665370)
And I agree that Revan is not the uber-ultimate guy, it's just obvious that he is easily superior to Anakin the Whinny Self-Centered Brat.

I think Hunger's statement here just about sums up this thread, the superiority of KOTOR to the clone wars and epitomizes all that is afoul at LucasFilms.

Remember back when Vader used to be cool?

Agincourt 08-24-2009 08:16 AM

Revan would win.

Anakin was all muscle and no brains. Darth Vader was much weaker than Anakin, but he should have been able to develop his mind since then. Combine Darth Vader's brain with Anakin's strength and what do you get? No equal to Revan I'll say that.

Forogorn 08-24-2009 01:28 PM

Lol, Anakin is spelled wrong, but anyways, I think Anakin would have been the victor. Revan was a magnificent strategist, he was wise and intelligent at the same time, but that doesn't mean anything. Anakin was more powerful, stronger, and was very strong in the Force. He could just force choke Revan and would win. I hope you people aren't voting for Revan because you got to play as him. Revan is not that powerful as you think, if he was, he would have defeated Bastila and the Jedi trying to capture him, and escape before Malak could have blasted his ship. Theofore, Revan is weak and pathethic and should have seen it coming. And if Revan was smart, he would have stayed on the path of the Light Side, so that Malak wouldn't have taken over as Dark Lord of the Sith. He also should have killed his master, Kreia, to show that he has turned to the Dark Side, instead of going far away and was never to be seen again. If he had killed Kreia, he would have saved a lot of trouble for the Exile in the second game. There I go, I proved that Revan is weak with many reasons to go along with it.

Lord of Hunger 08-24-2009 01:35 PM

@ Redhawke: adamq actually said everything I wanted to say.

But if I need to play by the rules, then I'll do so. I officially declare that in any debate I have/partake in within the LF forums, I disregard the superiority of G-Canon over C-Canon and will judge any character and whatnot based only on in-universe material.

And of course your PnP character would wipe out everyone combined! With those weapons? :D

Lord of Hunger 08-24-2009 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forogorn (Post 2665949)
Lol, Anakin is spelled wrong, but anyways, I think Anakin would have been the victor.

I do wish a moderator would fix that. But please good sir proceed with your proof..
Quote:

Revan was a magnificent strategist, he was wise and intelligent at the same time, but that doesn't mean anything.
Oh really? You do realize that wisdom and intelligence has a great deal to do with mastery of the Force.
Quote:

Anakin was more powerful, stronger, and was very strong in the Force.
Could he control that strength?
Quote:

He could just force choke Revan and would win.
...so you are saying that Anakin, who before his transformation in Darth Vader had only used Force Choke once, would be able to defeat someone would probably uses Force Choke regularly?
Quote:

I hope you people aren't voting for Revan because you got to play as him.
Hardly. The player character in KOTOR isn't truly Revan. To me, Revan is only Revan when he has his full personality back. You know, the one that pretended to be fall to the Dark Side in order to rebuild the Galaxy in preparation for the True Sith?
Quote:

Revan is not that powerful as you think, if he was, he would have defeated Bastila and the Jedi trying to capture him, and escape before Malak could have blasted his ship. Theofore, Revan is weak and pathethic and should have seen it coming. And if Revan was smart, he would have stayed on the path of the Light Side, so that Malak wouldn't have taken over as Dark Lord of the Sith. He also should have killed his master, Kreia, to show that he has turned to the Dark Side, instead of going far away and was never to be seen again. If he had killed Kreia, he would have saved a lot of trouble for the Exile in the second game. There I go, I proved that Revan is weak with many reasons to go along with it.
So in each area you are suggesting that Revan should have been able to know everything and because he didn't he's somehow weak.

Let me flip this around. :thmbup1:

"Anakin is not as powerful as you think, if he was, he would have defeated Obi-Wan on Mustafar and never got burned into a hunk of charred flesh encased in a very limiting armor. Therefore, Anakin is weak and pathetic and should have been a bit less arrogant. And if Anakin was smart he would have stayed on the path of the Light so that Darth Sidious wouldn't have taken over as Galactic Emperor. He should have killed Master Yoda to show that he had turned to the Dark Side instead of getting utterly clobbered by Luke in Episode 6. That way he would have saved a lot of trouble for Darth Sidious in the Original Trilogy. There I go, I just proved Anakin is weak with many reasons to go along with it."

:D

EDIT: Oops, accidentally double posted! Could a Moderator please correct my stupid mistake and merge these two posts? Thank you and sorry in advance.

Te Je'karta Mand'alor 08-24-2009 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2665957)

...so you are saying that Anakin, who before his transformation in Darth Vader had only used Force Choke once, would be able to defeat someone would probably uses Force Choke regularly?

actualy he used it a few times as vader


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